Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

Another big disclaimer which alot of people are not alluding to is

  • Probably Amorim is a level below PL standards.
  • Probably 343 is a level below PL challenge. ( yes Chelsea won the title playing 343... It's Some 7 years ago. Also Leicester won the league playing Counter attacking Football a season before) Both teams collapsed thereafter.
  • EPL has been won and consistently being fought for, by teams playing 433 since 2017.
  • You can not consistently perform in EPL with only 2 midfielders. Never in the current times. Yes, positioning might differ but you need 3 pure midfielders in title winning team.
  • With 2 midfielders, you will get overrun frequently.

ETH used to stack 4 attacking players leaving the midfield wide open. Yet we were not prolific scorers.

Amorim is stacking up defenders, leaving a midfield 2 out numbered, yet we keep conceding goals with 6 defenders on the pitch ( back 5 + goalkeeper).
Amorim has not addressed midfield issues that's why things have collapsed.

Sadly, this formation won't work in EPL.
Even Arteta tried it, he finished 8th. Saka was a wingback. He changed to 433 he became a challenger almost immediately.
The danger we have now is, we might spend another 500m on a system which will only deliver top 4. Yet top 4 was being delivered by 'Ole Ball' without all this shenanigans of needing new 11 players.

In short,CURRENT the profile of EPL opposition, the dynamics of competition in EPL, a team of 2 midfielders will never be top WINNER team for a 5-10 period. Other team will find you out.

Sadly, It looks like Ashworth might have been correct.
 
InspiRED said:
Fecking amazing that people can't see what a shitty position it was to be handed the job in the most intense part of the season with an absolute dogshit team. Maybe he could have adapted to a low block and scrapped a few more points from this period but where would that leave us? We're not getting relegated, the season is a write-off. We will have an easier run in the new year and we'll see the green shoots. Better than having spent a few months trying to scrap out some points with shit on a stick football so we can finish 9th instead of 14th.
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I don't really agree with this. If we don't have enough players that are physically or technically good enough to play the new system, and/or enough time to train it properly (which are the mitigating factors regularly put forward), then why keep playing it and losing so many games?

Yes, play some boring football, get some points on the board and foster some confidence and belief before experimenting again when there's more time and an easier run of games.

Playing the one system is fine if there's something to show for it, even if we're narrowly losing but seeing improvement in some important capacity i.e. less goals conceded, or more goals being scored. Unfortunately, all we've really from it so far is increased possession, which won't win us matches.

As it is, he's won four games, two against Europa League sides that aren't great, a rubbish Everton and City who were in free fall. We've drawn one and lost the other 6. We're dropping points, not scoring many, and conceding lots of shitty goals. I'd rather switch to a boring style and maybe get some better results for a bit than to keep playing something that is ineffective and has us losing a lot.

Amorim has got an incredibly difficult job, but he's beginning to appear stubborn to the detriment of the team in much the same way Ten Hag was. Although it's still early days, I don't think that stubborness is a good thing if it's not actually improving results.
 
sepulturite said:
We have the right coach in charge. We won't be relegated. And things will improve as the season continues. We just have to suffer through the crap for the moment. I'm not happy about the results right now, but being relentlessly negative constantly has to be so tiring.
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It is :(
 
Hoof the ball said:
w2woj.jpg


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With no new arrivals in January, we will be in a relegation battle..
 
JJ12 said:
Then he shouldn't have been brought in. Why the feck would he come in and apply a system he doesn't know just to change it in the summer.

Clubs a load of wank.
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Tbh with you mate, he wouldn't be applying a different system but rather a different formation. In the formation Amorim is currenly applying he's nullified the wide forward threat and replaced it with the fullbacks who aren't quite as potent as the likes of Garnacho, Rashford, Amad etc whilst having a weak midfield.

I don't want him to compromise on the system but you can compromise on the formation because this current run of results is absolutely terrible. And being a good coach also involves being good at tweaking positions without compromising on the system of play.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
Another big disclaimer which alot of people are not alluding to is

  • Probably Amorim is a level below PL standards.
  • Probably 343 is a level below PL challenge. ( yes Chelsea won the title playing 343... It's Some 7 years ago. Also Leicester won the league playing Counter attacking Football a season before) Both teams collapsed thereafter.
  • EPL has been won and consistently being fought for, by teams playing 433 since 2017.
  • You can not consistently perform in EPL with only 2 midfielders. Never in the current times. Yes, positioning might differ but you need 3 pure midfielders in title winning team.
  • With 2 midfielders, you will get overrun frequently.

ETH used to stack 4 attacking players leaving the midfield wide open. Yet we were not prolific scorers.

Amorim is stacking up defenders, leaving a midfield 2 out numbered, yet we keep conceding goals with 6 defenders on the pitch ( back 5 + goalkeeper).
Amorim has not addressed midfield issues that's why things have collapsed.

Sadly, this formation won't work in EPL.
Even Arteta tried it, he finished 8th. Saka was a wingback. He changed to 433 he became a challenger almost immediately.
The danger we have now is, we might spend another 500m on a system which will only deliver top 4. Yet top 4 was being delivered by 'Ole Ball' without all this shenanigans of needing new 11 players.

In short,CURRENT the profile of EPL opposition, the dynamics of competition in EPL, a team of 2 midfielders will never be top WINNER team for a 5-10 period. Other team will find you out.

Sadly, It looks like Ashworth might have been correct.
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Oh ffs, more ridiculous hysterics.
 
RedDevil [NC] said:
It ultimately Falls on the club for sticking with ETH for far too long, blowing too much money eye on players that can’t score or contribute and then sacking ETH mid season
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I agree but Amorim has to deliver something, you can't be in relegation form with 5 out of last 6 as defeats, and the next couple ones are surely defeats too. You can't be losing at this rate.
 
DarkXaero said:
Its not looking good for him, it was a bad idea to bring him in at this point of the season (instead of next summer) and he's struggling immensely with no clear ways of getting better.
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“No clear ways of getting better”. So a few more training sessions beyond… 4… just not gonna help?
 
sepulturite said:
I think we'll sign a couple of proper wingbacks in January, which is where we're having the most issues with this system, solve that and I think things will improve pretty quickly.
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Sadly our transfer budget is the square root of diddly squat
 
InspiRED said:
“No clear ways of getting better”. So a few more training sessions beyond… 4… just not gonna help?
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I was referring to recruitment. Of course training more helps but you know what also works against us? Poor results and Amorim losing the dressing room in record fashion where players start tuning him out because they don't believe in his ideas. The morale is quite obviously terrible right now.
 
He has to make them function like a team first. Our players seem incapable of getting out of pressure. Every pass is panicked, overhit or underhit or hoof and hope. Either the players we have are league 1 standard or they have decided Amorim's style won't work and are downing tools actively. I've never seen a top team being this comically bad.
 
Needs time,needs hungry new players. Needs to get to 40pts and a good run in EL. I've faith in him,no faith in most of the players though. A big reset needed. Things look very bad at the moment. But let's say we are in PL next season with RA as head coach and no Europe. He could really get his style in place. Ideally I'd love us to win EL and get CL next season. But last time in it we were embarrassed, so it's purely money and supposedly attracting better players reasons. Not to win it.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
Amorim is stacking up defenders, leaving a midfield 2 out numbered, yet we keep conceding goals with 6 defenders on the pitch ( back 5 + goalkeeper).
Amorim has not addressed midfield issues that's why things have
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Most of our issues are bone headed errors by players also, 2 Olympico goals sum up pretty well how we consistently shoot ourselves in the foot. Martinez is a huge liability and been responsible for too many goals. It too mention we can concede from any corner or set piece.
 
CallyRed said:
Sadly our transfer budget is the square root of diddly squat
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We'll solve that by selling, Rashford probably, and maybe others. There could also be some available on loan that means we won't have to spend anything until the summer. We just need proper wingbacks.
 
Hoof the ball said:
Think about it Redcafe. Just....... Think.



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Just came here to post this. Jamie Jackson asked the same question the entire cafe has been asking for more than 2 weeks now. Hope you got an answer from Amorim himself and quite honestly people defending him here have been saying the same exact thing. These are players have been brought in tailor made to play a specific system and they didnt go their jobs cause they werent good enough. Yet people keep saying we need to go back to that system.
 
gaffs said:
I dont think going back to 433 changes all that much.

Does 433 mean that Hojland can hold the ball up? Would it mean that Martinez could suddenly win an aerial duel? Would Onana stop letting in soft goals? Would Bruno stop getting himself sent off for petulance? Would it make Rashford interested in playing football again?

This lot were doing the same under Ten Hag in a 433.

Give the manager some time to get them on the training pitch. He has not had that since coming in mid November.

The biggest mistake Amorim made was underestimating the sheer incompetence of some of these players.
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We won't suddenly become world beaters no, but I think switching to a back four would solve a lot of the issues.

At the very least, he can't keep playing Dalot and Mazraoui at wingback. We are fecking toothless going forward.

My main worry is that if we can carry on like this, he gets binned before next season and all of this has been a gigantic waste of time.
 
He needs to learn fast. You simply cannot play Casimero and Eriksen in a midlefield of two. Everyone with football knowledge knew the results outcome after the lineup release. That was the first time I questioned his decision. He also needs to adapt and twig the system somehow, This is premier league, teams figure you out. At least play one attacking wingback. Take risk. Play Anthony as Wingback and midlefield of three so that at least we have some sort of control and threat going forward. You cannot be a slave of a system. I don't say abandon it but
adapt in some occassions
 
I honestly think if he Drops Martinez, puts Yoro on the left of the 3, De Ligt in the middle and Maz on the right we'd be better, play Amad on the right WB role until we can get someone in.

Also, we massively massively missed Ugarte tonight. Casemiro and Eriksen are so done. Think that might the end for Zirkzee as well, horrific half an hour and when the fans are delighted to see you come off there's very little chance of turning it round.
 
Play whatever fecking system you like, but if you look like absolute shite and carry zero threat from out wide, it might just be time to stop being a fecking wimp and play wingers out wide.
Mark my words, if he continues to play 5 defenders and just 2 midfielders, we’ll end up fighting relegation.
 
He just confirmed we have no money in january. So he needs results and he needs to get the current squad onboard or else he will be fired in february
 
Rex Banner said:
We won't suddenly become world beaters no, but I think switching to a back four would solve a lot of the issues.

At the very least, he can't keep playing Dalot and Mazraoui at wingback. We are fecking toothless going forward.

My main worry is that if we can carry on like this, he gets binned before next season and all of this has been a gigantic waste of time.
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Please explain how it solve a lot of the issues.
 
Saudicastle took their foot off the ball and let us have possession - they knew we could not touch them. Zero point them playing 100% for the full game when we are so poor in attacking play.

Stunned by the team selection - decision to play Dalot and Maz Rowey cost us any attacking threat in the first half - the Geordies took full advantage.

This has got to improve and quickly.
 
Wolfbot said:
I don't really agree with this. If we don't have enough players that are physically or technically good enough to play the new system, and/or enough time to train it properly (which are the mitigating factors regularly put forward), then why keep playing it and losing so many games?

Yes, play some boring football, get some points on the board and foster some confidence and belief before experimenting again when there's more time and an easier run of games.

Playing the one system is fine if there's something to show for it, even if we're narrowly losing but seeing improvement in some important capacity i.e. less goals conceded, or more goals being scored. Unfortunately, all we've really from it so far is increased possession, which won't win us matches.

As it is, he's won four games, two against Europa League sides that aren't great, a rubbish Everton and City who were in free fall. We've drawn one and lost the other 6. We're dropping points, not scoring many, and conceding lots of shitty goals. I'd rather switch to a boring style and maybe get some better results for a bit than to keep playing something that is ineffective and has us losing a lot.

Amorim has got an incredibly difficult job, but he's beginning to appear stubborn to the detriment of the team in much the same way Ten Hag was. Although it's still early days, I don't think that stubborness is a good thing if it's not actually improving results.
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This is the approach that has cost us 10 years (or more) of winning. We need an awkward gear change and Amorim is the man to make it happen
 
Ayoba said:
No, just football at the minute.
Do I still need therapy?
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Well I'm glad to hear that mate. Then no, you don't. But I don't understand getting so depressed over things at the moment, don't get me wrong it's awful right now, but it will improve if we stick with someone who is clearly a very good coach. Chopping and changing the head coach will never work, plus the club can't afford to just sack and hire someone new willy nilly anyway.
 
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