Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[Irwin99]

Chatting about the formation when their goals came from a corner, a basic shot from 25 yards and a header that travelled in slow motion.

I did think people might jump to the whole formation excuse if things weren't going well, but I expected it more from the media and ex players who'd go on about the glory days of 4-4-2 and all that. We've played 4-2-3-1 for years and it's really not been any better and as you said, today's goals had little to do with the formation. Let's give it time.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Chatting about the formation when their goals came from a corner, a basic shot from 25 yards and a header that travelled in slow motion.

Not just chatting about the formation but there's some folk saying that they always knew that it wouldn't work. Unfortunately they never put this into writing at any point until now - but they were definitely thinking it, honest.

 

[Ole'sgunnarwin]

If you could get him drunk in the pub and you could get him to tell you who out of the current squad of players he would keep, I wonder who it would be. Amad, Maz + Ugarte and maybe Yoro because he is young. That about it?

Maybe Mainoo too but yeah that's about it

 

[tomaldinho1]

Ole’s legacy.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Because they are not being coached properly. Bruno has been a liability for ages.

Bruno should never start in central midfield. He doesn’t look after the ball well enough to play that position. Why doesn’t Amorin play him as a 10. If Bruno plays risky passes at least it’s higher up the pitch.

 

[Blood Mage]

Taking off Bruno and Ugarte were mistakes. Result would probably have been the same though as we can't score goals.

 

[Superden]

injury time, dalot gets the ball 30 yards out, we have about half our team in front of him, he decides to go for glory and wang it half way up into the stand. Look on dear rubins face said it all.

Our players lack football and emotional intelligence.

 

[Bobski]

Would he consider do we think a 433? Whilst keeping his core football philosophy as it were.

Will be interesting to see if he does, didn't he adapt after a rough start to the Everton game then switch back? Nothing wrong with having a strong philosophy about how you want to play but being able to adapt and present new challenges to the opposition is what the best do.

 

[Raoul]

He definitely was, but this group pre ETH still had these problems. It’s like players join and there’s some culture there that saps away at their combative side. ETH had to deal with a lot of crap with clearing out the squad and I do think the replacements bar Antony are generally much better in terms of attitude/workrate etc. but the hard thing now is replacing Rashford and Bruno.

Yes - that culture you describe is driven by intense media saturation and fan expectations and the nostalgia of wanting to relive the glory of a bygone era. As for transfers, think what we could've done with the £225m we flushed away on Antony, Mount, Malacia, and Sancho in recent years. All examples of how poorly the club was run at an executive level, how such incompetence filtered its way into a lack of funds and options for subsequent managers, and why Amorim is 100% spot in saying its going to get rough before it gets better.

 

[ForeverRed1]

Very true. Its all mental, which doesn't paint a very flattering picture of ETH's time here.

It’s been like this for coming up 12 years in May. Literally. It’s been a problem way before ETH.


There is something legitimately wrong at this football club. Even top rated managers turn to shite.

 

[Rojofiam]

Ole’s legacy.

We have 5 players from the whole squad at this point that were important players under Ole. Lindelöf, Maguire, Bruno, Rashford and Shaw. 3 of them barely play these days. Amad was always on loan or not playing, Dalot the same.

I agree with the tweet but the issue has nothing to do with Ole.

We also came back from losing positions often under Ole. More often than under Rangnick or ETH since. That cannot be achieved with no mental resilience. The players actually believed we could do it and it helped the team collectively achieve it.

The football under him was also the best we've seen post-Ferguson according to both the eye test and underlying metrics. Our players could also use their brains when close to the opponents goal and we showed some great link-up play at times. Better than anything since, that's for sure.

 

[Trex]

Not just chatting about the formation but there's some folk saying that they always knew that it wouldn't work. Unfortunately they never put this into writing at any point until now - but they were definitely thinking it, honest.

Because we play a player on the left flank who is no threat, and the players who can be a threat on the left albeit inconsistent in the center.
It nullifies the little offensive threat we have.
I like the idea but the profiles have to be right.

 

[AjaxCunian]

This squad is used to losing, another season full of losing is not suddenly going to change the freshness, attitude, mindset and confidence of these players over the summer.

Most of them will probably have lost their belief in him and the team by May, which will be incredibly hard for Amorim to turn around.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

injury time, dalot gets the ball 30 yards out, we have about half our team in front of him, he decides to go for glory and wang it half way up into the stand. Look on dear rubins face said it all.

Our players lack football and emotional intelligence.

I had turned it over to MUTV's radio commentary and they went ballistic when Dalot did that.

 

[Raoul]

It’s been like this for coming up 12 years in May. Literally. It’s been a problem way before ETH.


There is something legitimately wrong at this football club. Even top rated managers turn to shite.

Agreed. The source of all problems were the Glazers - in allowing Fergie to basically appoint Moyes, then allowing Woodward to effectively run the club for a decade despite having no football experience to do so. Fortunately we finally have a proper executive team in place alongside a quality manager, so we have to give this process time to flesh itself out.

 

[giggs-beckham]

Will be interesting to see if he does, didn't he adapt after a rough start to the Everton game then switch back? Nothing wrong with having a strong philosophy about how you want to play but being able to adapt and present new challenges to the opposition is what the best do.

I want him to keep his style but maybe a formation is better for the league?
Don't adjust to these players, hell no!

 

[CloneMC16]

I'm tired boss.

 

[Mike Smalling]

injury time, dalot gets the ball 30 yards out, we have about half our team in front of him, he decides to go for glory and wang it half way up into the stand. Look on dear rubins face said it all.

Our players lack football and emotional intelligence.

Wanted to pull my hair out at that moment.

 

[sammyhol]

You make it sound like we played well in these last 18 months with 4231.

On what planet is a solo 6 and inside FBs a 4231?

ETH played a double pivot, width from fbs, and inside wingers only in his first season. Typically Casemiro and Eriksen. Nice and compact from them. Fbs doing what they did best. And rashford scored 30 goals.

Then he got his Pep hard on, and decided he was gonna play a solo 6, and FB supposedly stepping into midfield to cover but done terribly, and width provided by the wingers with no overlapping. And every player looked worse as a result.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

On what planet is a solo 6 and inside FBs a 4231?

ETH played a double pivot, width from fbs, and inside wingers only in his first season. Typically Casemiro and Eriksen. Nice and compact from them. Fbs doing what they did best. And rashford scored 30 goals.

Then he got his Pep hard on, and decided he was gonna play a solo 6, and FB supposedly stepping into midfield to cover but done terribly, and width provided by the wingers with no overlapping. And every player looked worse as a result.

My mistake. Completely misread your post about the FA bit and thought you were talking about post League Cup season as well. Apologies!

 

[ForeverRed1]

Agreed. The source of all problems were the Glazers - in allowing Fergie to basically appoint Moyes, then allowing Woodward to effectively run the club for a decade despite having no football experience to do so. Fortunately we finally have a proper executive team in place alongside a quality manager, so we have to give this process time to flesh itself out.

Yeah it’s criminal what’s happened to this club. Should never of been allowed.


Yeahs of ruin will take a while to get right but let’s see what the new group can bring. Amorim already looks done in which tells you how bad it really is.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

Yeah but to say that we well suited for 4231 is a total rewrite of history. We're crap no matter which formation we play! I'd expect us to play badly even using Todd Boehly's genius 4-4-3 formation.

I think we are somewhat better suited to 4231 but as you say we are crap regardless. We need a massive overhaul but have limited funds. We would probably lose 8 games out of 10 against a ten men Liverpool.

 

[Offside]

Things can change quickly once you start on the up, but that isn’t going to happen with this squad. He needs to start buying and selling in January, otherwise the season is going to end up like Ralf where it just gets so bad he can’t recover. Unfortunately Ten Hag spanked our budget on shite so we may have to wait until the Summer. What a mess.

 

[Roboc7]

I think too much is made of the formation, even in a back 4 it’s still a lot of the same problems. The manager needs to stick to what he wants to do and see who can adapt to it. It’s going to be painful at times but it’s what happened at Liverpool, Arsenal and for a season with Pep at City.

Desperately need some good recruitment in the summer but this isn’t a quick fix, ETH did same as Ole, Jose and LVG and left behind as big a mess as he inherited.

 

[sammyhol]

Yeah but to say that we well suited for 4231 is a total rewrite of history. We're crap no matter which formation we play! I'd expect us to play badly even using Todd Boehly's genius 4-4-3 formation.

The last time this squad played 4231 consistently it won a cup, got to another final, got to a European quarter, and came 3rd…

We then changed it for no reason whatsoever, other than Pep had supposedly reinvented a 150 year old game, and have gone backwards ever since

Where is the re-writing of history?

And are you honestly saying that you believe that we wouldn’t have looked better today with a single change in this shape:


-————onana————-
Dalot-Yoro-de ligt-maz
——ugarte-Mainoo—-
—Amad-Bruno-Garna—
————-Hojlund———-

Square pegs, square holes

Like I said though, Ruben was a known quantity, and he deserves time to implement his system… but there are so many roles in it that we don’t have natural fits for.

 

[Rojofiam]

Very upset with the result like everyone else, but not necessarily with the performance.

It's difficult to give the impression that you played well in a 2-3 loss at home to an underdog team, but I genuinely think we will improve a lot until the rest of the season, and then especially after we add some much needed reinforcements in key areas in the summer (and maybe in January?).

A new LWB is coming for sure and it's needed too. That alone will help massively both offensively and defensively. Imagine all the situations today where Dalot received the ball in the LW spot around the opposition box. I'm not saying we'll manage to sign this player but Davies for example would've probably made more of those. Or a wrong-footed (so, right-footed in this case) full-back there that makes better decisions than Dalot.

Also, I'm not gonna go all kneejerk and dismiss these players as deadwood but we probably win this game today if Onana wasn't having one of his brainfart moments and we actually had a taller LCB instead of Martínez to mark Milenkovic on that first corner. Or just put someone else on the Serbian. It's just about fine margins, especially when you don't have the perfect profiles for most positions, and it all went to shit today.

Definitely needed:

-Tall, athletic, pacey LCB
-LWB
-CM with expansive passing range to replace Eriksen
-I know Ugarte's been decent but I think we'll still need a new DM that's better at 1v1 duels.
-Possibly one more wide CB on top of the LCB

I don't think the keeper position will be considered next summer, unless Onana reverts back to his 2023 form permanently.

I also think Hojlund and Zirkzee will show enough until the end of the season that we won't need a new first choice striker. Maybe a rotational one, though.

Not sure about the #10 positions and the kind of players Amorim would like there. Bruno, Mount and Amad are 3 different profiles and all 3 are very good players. Also depends a lot on the futures of Garnacho, Rashford and Zirkzee.

 

[Sandikan]

injury time, dalot gets the ball 30 yards out, we have about half our team in front of him, he decides to go for glory and wang it half way up into the stand. Look on dear rubins face said it all.

Our players lack football and emotional intelligence.

Reminded me of the days I had a season ticket, and there were about 2mins left of an away FA Cup tie, and we're drawing.

Dalot smashing 50miles over the bar, knowing with the auto cup scheme I had to buy the replay ticket, giving me 10 days to shift it...my word I was cursing him that day.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

I think we are somewhat better suited to 4231 but as you say we are crap regardless. We need a massive overhaul but have limited funds. We would probably lose 8 games out of 10 against a ten men Liverpool.

Yeah you and @sammyhol are completely right about that part.

These individual errors are getting a bit boring though. Especially Dalot, who one minute I'm loving for his energy and the next minute I'm remembering that he's a total moron. We have so many problems and yet we keep going in circles. I genuinely believe that Sir Alex exchanged 30 years of success for 30 years of bad luck.

 

[MO_Football92]

I think United made a mistake going for Amorim. Not because he is a bad manager, but his 343 is too far from what we have in the squad of players to fill the roles.

They should have got a standard 4231 manager. The players would have slotted in. We could improve the team in January and Summer and kept some sort of continuity of philosphy and tactics.

As of now, we need to solve wing backs, striker, CB and attacking mid. If we had stuck with 4231 wed only need wingers and striker.

If Amorim gets sacked, wed have probably sold aload of wingers and brought specialist wing backs, only to be left with a new manager that wants wingers and full backs again.

Seems daft to me to bring in such a big change of tactics right now when we rebuilding.

Tbh, no manager should be so wedded to a system. It's about playing to the strengths of your players.

This Man United squad are best suited to a 352 system under a direct style, and have been for a long time

 

[Sandikan]

Very upset with the result like everyone else, but not necessarily with the performance.

It's difficult to give the impression that you played well in a 2-3 loss at home to an underdog team, but I genuinely think we will improve a lot until the rest of the season, and then especially after we add some much needed reinforcements in key areas.

A new LWB is coming for sure and it's needed too. That alone will help massively both offensively and defensively. Imagine all the situations today where Dalot received the ball in the LW spot around the opposition box. I'm not saying we'll manage to sign this player but Davies for example would've probably made more of those. Or a wrong-footed (so, right-footed in this case) full-back there that makes better decisions than Dalot.

Also, I'm not gonna go all kneejerk and dismiss these players as deadwood but we probably win this game today if Onana wasn't having one of his brainfart moments and we actually had a taller LCB instead of Martínez to mark Milenkovic on that first corner. Or just put someone else on the Serbian. It's just about fine margins, especially when you don't have the perfect profiles for most positions, and it all went to shit today.

One big problem, is that we have so many games over this next month, that Amorim isn't going to have much time to get them actually training. It'll be play the game, recover, play again, recover etc.

 

[Trophy Room]

He exudes calmness. Very real. I love it.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

The last time this squad played 4231 consistently it won a cup, got to another final, got to a European quarter, and came 3rd…

We then changed it for no reason whatsoever, other than Pep had supposedly reinvented a 150 year old game, and have gone backwards ever since

Where is the re-writing of history?

And are you honestly saying that you believe that we wouldn’t have looked better today with a single change in this shape:


-————onana————-
Dalot-Yoro-de ligt-maz
——ugarte-Mainoo—-
—Amad-Bruno-Garna—
————-Hojlund———-

Square pegs, square holes

Like I said though, Ruben was a known quantity, and he deserves time to implement his system… but there are so many roles in it that we don’t have natural fits for.

I edited my reply to you once I realised what an utter spanner I had been. I misread the part about the FA cup, failing to see the part about getting to the final - not winning - and thought you were saying last season was good. Then I was assuming you thought our formation last year was the same as our first. Then I got cocky and thought I was being clever with a snarky reply. Now I have egg on my face. If I was a decent man I would say sorry and apologise for it, promising to read things better next time. But I'm Scottish so...

 

[Insanity]

The last time this squad played 4231 consistently it won a cup, got to another final, got to a European quarter, and came 3rd…

We then changed it for no reason whatsoever, other than Pep had supposedly reinvented a 150 year old game, and have gone backwards ever since

Where is the re-writing of history?

And are you honestly saying that you believe that we wouldn’t have looked better today with a single change in this shape:


-————onana————-
Dalot-Yoro-de ligt-maz
——ugarte-Mainoo—-
—Amad-Bruno-Garna—
————-Hojlund———-

Square pegs, square holes

Like I said though, Ruben was a known quantity, and he deserves time to implement his system… but there are so many roles in it that we don’t have natural fits for.

I understand where you are coming for and you are right in saying that we'd get better immediate results in the formation you show played in mid-block.

However, like Ruben said, we can do that & be in the same place the next season again. Because I am sure you'd agree that team & playing that way isn't going to win as a title or get us back to the top.

I think formations are irrelevant anyway. Our style of play, our pressing, our movement, our passing, our speed of passing, our ability to create space, our guile in breaking down low block set-ups - all those things need to improve for us to become a better team. And a formation is immaterial to all those principles.

 

[RedRocket9908]

I think we are going to need another big spending transfer window or 2 if we are to assemble a squad than can play the way Ruben wants to play as a lot of this current lot arnt up to it

 

[Offside]

Tbh, no manager should be so wedded to a system. It's about playing to the strengths of your players.

This is true but he will hopefully have come in and realised that most of the players need to be moved on eventually.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Why is amad not being tried for the no.10 role? Dalot and Maz on the wings? Why is rashford and garnacho getting shoehorned into those positions? (Ignore rashford, he is borderline useless)

 

[MO_Football92]

This is true but he will hopefully have come in and realised that most of the players need to be moved on eventually.

Crazy as it sounds, I honestly don't think you have bad players. They've just been poorly managed and coached by Ole, ETH etc.

Too early to judge Amorim but 343 definitely doesn't suit these guys

 

[sammyhol]

I understand where you are coming for and you are right in saying that we'd get better immediate results in the formation you show played in mid-block.

However, like Ruben said, we can do that & be in the same place the next season again. Because I am sure you'd agree that team & playing that way isn't going to win as a title or get us back to the top.

I think formations are irrelevant anyway. Our style of play, our pressing, our movement, our passing, our speed of passing, our ability to create space, our guile in breaking down low block set-ups - all those things need to improve for us to become a better team. And a formation is immaterial to all those principles.

I disagree. I think starting the best shape to suit your squad is vital. And I just think it is a complete myth that 4231 with a traditional double pivot couldn’t have formed a basis for title challenging football. I appreciate it’s early in the season, but it is exactly how Chelsea are setting up and they look like they are gonna be in and around challenging at the end of the season.

But if you changed their set up to a 343… with Maduake now a wingback, gusto a RCB, Cucarella a wingback… and palmers space behind the striker congested with another 10, they wouldn’t look as good.

All Bruno’s best games have been as a solo 10. All rashfords best games have been as an inside LW with and overlapping fb. All dalots best games have been as a traditional RB. All Casemiros best games have been in a mid block double pivot. And Martinez best games have been as a LCB in a pair. All Shaws best games have been at LB… you can go on and on…. Yet all of them have very rarely been deployed in those positions in getting on 2 years. It just boggles the mind.

But ultimately, I’m still excited about Amorim and what he is gonna do with us. I just can’t help but find it frustrating that 2 years ago we were seemingly on to something…. Ripped it up for no reason, and are now starting from scratch on something completely new that I am not convinced suits the strengths of many of our best players.

 

[roseguy64]

City is not in decline. It was a temporary blip. Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and City will seal top 4.

They drew 2-2 to Crystal Palace today.

 

[RedIan]

Ruud had success playing casamiro and ugarte together. We looked solid.
Ugarte casamiro and mainoo as the midfield 3. Bruno has to be a in the front 3.