I agree - it was all too slow. All looked atraid of making a mistake.
The other thing was the lack of forward runs, really hard to create from settled possession if you don’t move teams around by sprinting in behind
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
The other thing was the lack of forward runs, really hard to create from settled possession if you don’t move teams around by sprinting in behind
The two biggest problems today were the CBs and wing backs.
Any 3 at the back needs players comfortable on the ball and having the ability to progress into midfield and pushing the team high up. Azpilicueta, Vertonghen, Bonucci, Bastoni all had that ability to do that for their respective teams. We just had 3 CBs passing within themselves because none of them would take the initiative to play passes into midfield, it really just reminded me of when we played it under LVG.
The good thing for us here is Yoro and Martinez can make a big difference to that when they come into the side.
The bigger issue is the wing backs, Dalot and Amad were dreadful in their roles. Amad was good when he was in his usual winger role but as wing backs both were really poor in ball progression. I believe a big reason is because both were inverted and Ipswich played on that. Coupled with the inability of the CBs to make any pass that wasn't to an open CB, it put more onus on them to get the ball into midfield and both were unable to do it and it pushed us more into a 5 at the back instead of a 3.
Hopefully Mazraoui is moved back to the wing back position because he is really important in advancing the ball.
The other potential elephant in the room is that our best player Bruno has no natural position in this setup but I'll wait for more games to really see how this plays out.
Any 3 at the back needs players comfortable on the ball and having the ability to progress into midfield and pushing the team high up. Azpilicueta, Vertonghen, Bonucci, Bastoni all had that ability to do that for their respective teams. We just had 3 CBs passing within themselves because none of them would take the initiative to play passes into midfield, it really just reminded me of when we played it under LVG.
The good thing for us here is Yoro and Martinez can make a big difference to that when they come into the side.
The bigger issue is the wing backs, Dalot and Amad were dreadful in their roles. Amad was good when he was in his usual winger role but as wing backs both were really poor in ball progression. I believe a big reason is because both were inverted and Ipswich played on that. Coupled with the inability of the CBs to make any pass that wasn't to an open CB, it put more onus on them to get the ball into midfield and both were unable to do it and it pushed us more into a 5 at the back instead of a 3.
Hopefully Mazraoui is moved back to the wing back position because he is really important in advancing the ball.
The other potential elephant in the room is that our best player Bruno has no natural position in this setup but I'll wait for more games to really see how this plays out.
You can stare at your scrotum all you like. Knock yourself out
A feeble draw against Ipswich. Amorim couldn't get a more fitting representation of where we're currently at.
He's got a hell of job on his hands, if he's going to make anything of this useless lot.
He's got a hell of job on his hands, if he's going to make anything of this useless lot.
it really cost us in the build up and it allowed them to get much closer and touch tight to the wingbacks and resorted to trying little flicks and backheels and losing the ball. Quite frustrating.
Evans and MDL both had a shocker. Ugarte massively helped when he came on and you could see how he was organising people around him. Really impressed by that.
Not the result we wanted and I think he was cautious with his lineup today with a lot of players coming back late from internationals or returning to fitness.
I really think that INEOS need to mandate that his media commitments don't exceed a certain level because man already looks fed up of interviews.
We won our last match before the international break fairly comfortably. Continuing from that was not asking too much.
I think it's fair to ask why we went to Ipswich and broke up the Ugarte-Casemiro midfield, and whether the changes we saw were the right ones.
That doesn't mean I am writing off the manager after one game. But there's standards that Ten Hag and others have lowered. Think it's fine to expect three points at Ipswich.
MDL had a shocker how? Ugarte was bang average when he came on.
Listening to him soothes the soul.
I really want him to succeed.
I really want him to succeed.
You’re being silly
He went with the players he had more time with. Ugarte got back late and played 100 or more minutes this week.
We've broke him already
His post match interview was spot on.
Particularly on Evans, Bruno and Zirkzee.
Also about the team thinking too much and us being physically behind other teams.
Got all the points bang on and now needs to correct it.
Particularly on Evans, Bruno and Zirkzee.
Also about the team thinking too much and us being physically behind other teams.
Got all the points bang on and now needs to correct it.
He was saying the players where confused at times as to what they were supposed to be doing , he mentioned they were getting a lot of new instructions during the week and it is hard to take all that in in a few days training , but he made no apologies for that and said we needed to start changing things straight away and hinted there would be short term pain for long term gain while the players get used to a new way of playing.
I honestly can’t understand what Ten Hag has been doing the last 2 years. Fitness shocking, first touch of most players has been shocking, passing is shocking. And this is a team largely signed by him. He’s really damaged this team, posters saying he left it better than he found it are having a laugh.
I do think there’s ability to be better there, mainly in players already here or promoted from the youth team etc. But he’s left a team with no confidence and absolutely nothing going for it. He’s catastrophically failed to develop players in the slightest. If anything, he’s made them worse by promoting really bad habits through poor football.
Can he possibly say anything else that is so so true and right?
But he doesn't want to continue winning matches in the same way we did prior to him joining. He wants to implement something different, in the hope of bringing long term success. If he just picks up where Ruud left off what's the point?
No, I mean something like Dalot is not a left wing back.
So it would be weird if he persists with that, instead of changing it.
Basically change what doesn’t work quickly.
Also I think right now, most of us fans know more about the ability or inability of our players than our new manager.
It's a VERY different thread if I (or another "oppo") starts it!
He was all over the place. Never won the ball when he stepped in to nick it and left space behind. His slow passing contributed massively to our issues building from the back too as I mentioned.
He wasn't alone. Many players had poor games. Evans was even worse.
Hence why patience is needed, sorely lacking in this forum.
He is the opposite of ETH. I have no doubts he will succeed if we back him.
I think we will. This season is a free hit for him. I am sure he has been given a carte-blanche to implement his system without bothering too much about the results. By the end of the season he'd have figured out which players will work or not work for him. However, the ones who'll work for him would've learnt how to excel in the system. Then from summer on we'd need to keep adding pieces to the puzzle for the full thing to come along. This is going to be a long haul but I am certain we'll start to see signs of his tactics and philosophy pretty soon.
We do not have the players for his system and he's not a magician. It is going to be a painful few weeks.
Players like Yoro and Martinez coming back will help a little bit.
Players like Yoro and Martinez coming back will help a little bit.
People here (some) need to take note of it.
It’s exactly what happened in the cycle of EtH. Chasing results without the focus on actually changing the philosophy, culture and style.
That’s why we are where we are now.
Ralf R, a few years ago, identified the same issues. Nothing was addressed. Nothing changed.
Physically, for whatever reason, our players are not fit enough to compete with players from other teams.
I think Ole did try to push the players one Summer (pre-season) and we ended up with a lot of injuries.
Ralf R also asked the players to geggen press. Unfortunately, that lasted about 30 minutes before the players went back to playing low-energy football.
I don’t get why is so hard for people to understand - firstly they are a playing a completely new system. It’s takes getting used to. Secondly it was an international break and he didn’t have all the players training. Ugarte was one of the last ones to return so fatigue was a factor but he had both Case and Eriksen the entire break so they had more time to understand the system.
So, a pretty shit performance against a relegation threatened team. Ipswich are alright at home but we barely threatened after our early goal. Said this in the match thread but their defense is absolutely hopeless and we didn't even trouble them for the majority of the game.
ETH atleast got us creating chances against teams like these, his problem was our players inability to score. We've created jackshit today. I can understand it to some extent with the players playing in a new system in different roles but I expected us to be better than what we've shown.
Even bigger problem is the lack of motivation from the players. I expected to see them motivated, up for the game and search for the winner but it never really happened. It was a tepid performance from everyone.
Amad was our best attacker and he was playing WB. Hopefully he plays next to Bruno as the no.10 and Garnacho is put back on the bench. All Garnacho has shown this season is he is best at coming on against tired legs and running at them. Actually laughable really that he thought Garnacho can work as the no10 but I'll cut him some slack as he probably never watched him before.
Hopefully he learnt a lot about this squad and their qualities from today's game.
ETH atleast got us creating chances against teams like these, his problem was our players inability to score. We've created jackshit today. I can understand it to some extent with the players playing in a new system in different roles but I expected us to be better than what we've shown.
Even bigger problem is the lack of motivation from the players. I expected to see them motivated, up for the game and search for the winner but it never really happened. It was a tepid performance from everyone.
Amad was our best attacker and he was playing WB. Hopefully he plays next to Bruno as the no.10 and Garnacho is put back on the bench. All Garnacho has shown this season is he is best at coming on against tired legs and running at them. Actually laughable really that he thought Garnacho can work as the no10 but I'll cut him some slack as he probably never watched him before.
Hopefully he learnt a lot about this squad and their qualities from today's game.
They were beating our attackers to everything in behind. Besides, Ten Hag took that easy route and used it as a crutch. Time to move away from it and learn to play proper football, even if we drop points by not trying Hail Marys from Bruno for 90 minutes.
Just like the players people here need to time to adjust their mindset.
He sounded absolutely disgusted with the state of the squad.
The ones hating on Amorim are either complete and utter idiots or on the wind up.
True. Not winning today is probably going to be better for us as it won't paper over the cracks as much as if we would have nicked a winner there.
I think he spoke really well post match. Was direct and honest. He knows what is needed.
Without a preseason, the best case scenario is what Klopp did with Liverpool. A 3 or 4 months where he tries to implement his core ideas and also adapt to the players and the league. Which means up and down performances.
Certainly, everything he mentioned in the post-match comments is correct.
The transition to actually win games mentally is a great insight, notice under Erik his team would consistently coast after being 1-2 or even 3 goals up.
Also explains why there was at one point many draws in the past, which eventually turned to losses when Erik decided (foolishly) to get more expansive with the system.
I dont think that's remotely true about MDL. He was very solid and not as ponderous on the ball as any of his peers. Ugarte was quite careless at times and too rash trying to hack players down.
Get a grip! ETH didn’t do shit. We “created” chances against this type of opposition cause we were going to end to end with relegation teams. We had no structure. We had no control. Amorim is just to fix just that.