Roy Keane's Last Stand

manutdpuer

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Thank god these days are behind us. Remember all the doomsayers saying the end of Utd. was near, following Keane's exit.

This article is an interesting read and puts Ferguson's accomplishments over the last couple of seasons in perspective. The fact that he constantly defies his critics is astounding and is a testement to the man and what he stands for (Be warned, Kind of a long read... but worth it):

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2005/11/20/story9817.asp

Roy Keane's last stand
Sunday, November 20, 2005 - By Ken Early
The row between Roy Keane and Alex Ferguson that ended Keane's Manchester United career has perplexed supporters.

One doubts whether even Keane and Ferguson themselves quite understand what happened.

Even a full transcript of the blazing row that led to Keane's bitter exit might not fully explain how they managed to contrive such a mountain of disaster out of the molehills of disagreement that had marked their relationship over the last few months.

Plainly the drama that unfolded at that meeting was shaped more by rage than by any kind of rationality. But the hardest thing to understand is how the friendship between Keane and Ferguson could have curdled so quickly into boiling resentment.

At the meeting, Keane was reportedly told he would not be offered a new contract, but he had been expecting that.

He had not expected to be asked to give up the captain's armband.

Ferguson is the most decorated coach in football, not because he's a tactical genius or a transfer-market whiz, but because he is a great man-manager, a reader of minds.

He knew Keane would react furiously to such a demand, and it is difficult to conclude that his cynical intention was not to force the player out of the club.

Then again, perhaps that reading of the situation is giving Fergie more Machiavellian credit than he deserves, because Keane's departure mid-season benefits nobody.

Keane has lost a prestigious stg£100,000-a-week job, the like of which he will never have again. But there is also no doubt that his loss diminishes United.

Last season, the team won 63 per cent of the league games Keane played in, but only 42 per cent of the games he missed.

Their collapse in form this season coincided with Keane breaking his foot against Liverpool. Everyone points out that Keane is no longer the force he was, yet he is still better than any of the midfielders currently on Man United's books. At 34 he still wipes the floor with Paul Scholes, Alan Smith, Darren Fletcher and the rest.

Also, if everyone accepts that age eventually withers even the greatest players, can the same rationale not equally be applied to managers? The truth is, the only thing keeping Ferguson in his job is the memory of triumphs that every day recede further into the past.

His blunders in the transfer market are legendary, his tactics widely derided. Fans are angry that his unpopular assistant, Carlos Queiroz, has been given more responsibility at the club, while Ferguson recently bought a horse from the Coolmore magnates who handed their club to Malcolm Glazer in May.

He has filled the team with players who are pale shadows of their predecessors, and already in November it is clear that the team has no chance of winning the title. Any other manager who had made as many mistakes would have been sacked by now.

Keane was the only player at the club with the status and courage to point out those mistakes.

There had been several arguments between Keane, Ferguson and Queiroz over the last few weeks. Ferguson apparently thought these episodes were becoming too damaging to his authority as manager and decided to end them once and for all. He might justify his actions by saying he had rid the dressing room of a disruptive influence.

An alternative view is that he has filled that dressing room with ‘yes men', who will never dare to say a word against him, but who also have no chance of winning major prizes.

It has been evident over the last few years that the less successful Ferguson has become, the more sensitive he has become to criticism. His response to critical comment has usually been to ban the offending media organ.

He has petulantly ignored the BBC since it broadcast a documentary in May 2004 entitled ‘Fergie and Son', which investigated the business affairs of his football agent son Jason. In a ridiculous episode in September, he refused to talk to United's own in-house TV channel, MUTV, after a pundit criticised his tactics during a phone-in.

Remember, David Beckham was sold after he rounded on Ferguson in the dressing room after the manager sent a boot flying into his face. So perhaps it is not that surprising that Ferguson's reaction to Keane's critical remarks in the suppressed MUTV interview was to kick him out. These days, ‘The Boss' specialises in shooting the messenger.

But does Ferguson really think that policy will make the bad news go away?

Keane is not the only one to have noted that the manager's view of the world appears to be increasingly divergent from reality. Two weeks ago, Man United fans watching their side lose to Lille in the Stade de France abused their players and chanted Keane's name.

Ferguson had better hope that Manchester United don't lose any home games in the coming weeks, or the same chant will haunt him as it did Mick McCarthy.

This is not to say Keane is blameless in the affair. He is famous for blunt honesty, but the honesty always seems to take the form of harsh criticism. Constant criticism grates on most people's nerves. It also must be noted that Keane dispenses negative remarks about others far more liberally than positive ones.

Several United players were annoyed that Keane did not come down to the dressing room to congratulate them after their recent victory over Chelsea. Keane would doubtless retort that they didn't deserve hugs and kisses just for doing their job. In the real world, however, most people appreciate a bit of praise when they do their job well.

As for Glazer, he will be happy with the stg£2.5 million that the termination of Keane's contract will save the club between now and June. Though he was idolised by match-going United supporters, Keane was never a big part of the club's branding drive on a global scale - he didn't even travel on the tour of Asia during the summer.

Glazer has bigger problems to think about, such as paying back the £374 million bank loan and £275 million high-interest debt to hedge funds that he forced the club to take on for the privilege of it being owned by him.

It's safe to assume that this will be occupying more of his thoughts than the departure of a mere employee. Some 23 non-playing staff have already been made redundant since Glazer's takeover, while Keane is the 13th player to leave the club in the same period.

The club must now find a replacement for Keane but, given the scale of its debt, they will not have the funds available to buy a player from the top shelf.

Their only hope of replacing Keane with a player of roughly equal ability is to persuade Bayern Munich's Michael Ballack that Manchester United, with its huge debts, average players and powerful domestic rivals, represent a better option than Real Madrid, with their enormous wealth, global stars and unrivalled aura of glamour.

There's next to no chance of that happening.

So the decline of the team is set to continue in tandem with the disillusionment of the supporters. The end of Roy Keane's career at Manchester United marks the definitive end of the club's great era of success. The departure of the manager who presided over that era cannot now be far away.

Ken Early is football correspondent on Newstalk's Off The Ball sports programme.
 
It was something of a worrying time, you have to understand the context the piece is written in. All very well slating the author, but with the heindsight of knowing Fergie has produced yet another immense team, arguably what his 4th great team? it's easy to dismiss him. Looks a chump now, but that's what happens when you write off those who have been at the top of their profession, and slipped a bit. Everyone slips, even the very best. But the very best always regain it. Look at Wenger now with Arsenal, for two years they've been nowhere in the league. Thankfully for them unlike this journalist, the board knew what they were doing, and understood top quality when they had it

Write off the very best at your peril. Let this be a warning to all those who continue to criticise young Ryan at this time. He will come back into form and make you eat your puny, pathetic words
 
Both good posts. Very interesting article, a watershed period and yes it should be taken in context.
I've been reminded about two facets of SAF recently. (1) Almost all champions in any walk of life become victims of their success. The beliefs that brought them success are never challenged, after all, they've been proven right. But over time the 'game' changes and even the absolute greats (Cloughie, Shankley etc in football, countless more in politics business etc) are left behind. They still remain faithful to the things that gave them the initial success and become victims of it.
Fergie, almost uniquely, has adapted. He's developed his playing philosophy over time, from the two enforcer midfield period to the floating front 4 period from stay at home full backs to bombing "wing back" style Evra's. In his biography he talks about his focus on buying players with character whereas, in my opinion, he now focusses on buying young players with immense ability thinking - I'm Alex Ferguson - I'll put the character in them myself.
(2) I can't imagine how much moral courage it must take to look at a warrior, a friend, someone who you've shared so much with and thinking "they're not where the future of the club is at, I'm getting rid of them". Yet with Keano, like many more before him, he's been able to do this, to put the good of the club first. Of course, he could be just a cold blooded bastard with a psychotic addiction to winning! but having read his books and spent the last 25 years Fergie watching I like to think the former is more accurate and he has huge moral courage.
 
Glazer's didn't save any money of the termination of his contract. That's a myth, he was still earning 90k a week from us when he was at Celtic.
 
Glazer's didn't save any money of the termination of his contract. That's a myth, he was still earning 90k a week from us when he was at Celtic.

I haven't heard that before. How did that work? Do you have a source for that information?
 
Isnt it fairly normal for that to happen? If we fired Keane, wouldnt we have to pay compensation worth part of his contract?
 
Great read. It was a really difficult time, where it was hard to find any positives. I've always been a strong Fergie fan but even I found it hard to defend some of his actions. At one point it's like he didn't want to buy another midfielder.
 
Both good posts. Very interesting article, a watershed period and yes it should be taken in context.
I've been reminded about two facets of SAF recently. (1) Almost all champions in any walk of life become victims of their success. The beliefs that brought them success are never challenged, after all, they've been proven right. But over time the 'game' changes and even the absolute greats (Cloughie, Shankley etc in football, countless more in politics business etc) are left behind. They still remain faithful to the things that gave them the initial success and become victims of it.
Fergie, almost uniquely, has adapted. He's developed his playing philosophy over time, from the two enforcer midfield period to the floating front 4 period from stay at home full backs to bombing "wing back" style Evra's. In his biography he talks about his focus on buying players with character whereas, in my opinion, he now focusses on buying young players with immense ability thinking - I'm Alex Ferguson - I'll put the character in them myself.
(2) I can't imagine how much moral courage it must take to look at a warrior, a friend, someone who you've shared so much with and thinking "they're not where the future of the club is at, I'm getting rid of them". Yet with Keano, like many more before him, he's been able to do this, to put the good of the club first. Of course, he could be just a cold blooded bastard with a psychotic addiction to winning! but having read his books and spent the last 25 years Fergie watching I like to think the former is more accurate and he has huge moral courage.

Bloody SPOT ON, mate... And the reporter fails to acknowledge that Keano said himself that Fergie was right to make a stand.

And Fergie has indeed stuffed character into the players he's put in his side... Everybody gets stuck in (if they have to, mind... it's one of Rio's massive gifts that he virtually never has to slide in on the ball), everybody works defensively (exceptions are made in the games, but generally, everybody has a go at some time... we've all seen our "lazy attacking minded" Ronaldo bomb back and then forward again like no other player).

They say it every bloody season... The media is fantastically ABU, but luckily our club knows what's good for it... and as long as he'll want to stay, I reckon Fergie's got something to offer that no other available manager can give us.
 
It was something of a worrying time, you have to understand the context the piece is written in. All very well slating the author, but with the heindsight of knowing Fergie has produced yet another immense team, arguably what his 4th great team? it's easy to dismiss him. Looks a chump now, but that's what happens when you write off those who have been at the top of their profession, and slipped a bit. Everyone slips, even the very best. But the very best always regain it. Look at Wenger now with Arsenal, for two years they've been nowhere in the league. Thankfully for them unlike this journalist, the board knew what they were doing, and understood top quality when they had it

Write off the very best at your peril. Let this be a warning to all those who continue to criticise young Ryan at this time. He will come back into form and make you eat your puny, pathetic words

There were many of us reminding people of this at the time.

The amount of Sack Fergie threads on here was amazing. The handful of us sane ones were fighting a losing battle on the side of sanity.
 
I was glad when Fergie got rid of Keane - not because I was pleased to see a great player get too old to play our game - but because I thought he had become too old to play our game. The fact that it ended (so we believe) with rows between him and Quieroz (the man who'd been trying to find ways to fit him into the team) and with him criticising players for failing to deliver at a time when he hadn't been delivering much himself made it easy for me to be pleased when it happened mid-season rather than at the end.

It was time for the next United team; Keane wasn't going to be part of it; he wasn't helping the transition; and he wasn't the type to fade out quietly.

With the benefit of hindsight of course the article has a touch of comedy, but at the time I wondered if SAF could make another team and sacking Keane actually reassured me that maybe he could pull it off.
 
I really don't see the point of ths thread except that it points out that a lot of shit gets printed
 
I really don't see the point of ths thread except that it points out that a lot of shit gets printed

What is the point of any posts on this website but to better educate fans about their favorite team and give people a chance to share their memories of supporting the world's greatest football team. For me this is a great post because, having been a major supporter during those troubled times it is nice to look back and put all of our recent success into perspective. I never try to take anything for granted and who knows what the future of this club will be, but for right now things are looking great and rather than live in the past or the future, I am enjoying the here and now a little bit more because I dug up this article from 2005 when things weren't as bright. If it doesn't do that for you, then oh well, but I wouldn't say that it is a pointless thread.