Roulette Draft - R1: Indnyc vs Onenil

Who will win this match?


  • Total voters
    20
  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
42,037
Location
┴┬┴┤( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬
VS
9e4nXc1.jpg

......................................... TEAM INDNYC ............................................................................. TEAM ONENIL ..................................



TEAM INDNYC

Formation : 4-3-3
Tactics : Attack the opposition by allowing Didi and Bozsik to play between the lines and have quick transitions to my star studded attack.

Attack :
Gento is one of the best of all time and even though he is facing one of the best right backs of all time, you don't want to leave him 1 on 1. Uwe Seeler is up there with the greatest strikers of all time and then we have Kubala who was voted the greatest Barcelona player of all time. There are goals galore in my front 3.

Midfield :

1. Didi - Advanced Playmaker playing in a creative role with slightly less emphasis on the defensive side of his game and allowing him to feed my attack. He'll fall back in the defensive phase of the game but mostly he will play between the lines and create scoring opportunities for my front 3

2. Ballack - Perfect Box to Box player. Commanding, physically strong and aggressive player, with excellent passing range, who will the ball efficiently and a good scoring record from midfield

3. Bozsik - Supremely talented with the ball at his feet, Bozsik will look to get on the ball and dictate the game, pinging balls wide and between the lines to Didi and Ballack

I feel the criticism that may come is that i don't have a ball winning DM similar to what the opposition has in Desailly or Hierro but given that they don't have a proper No. 10, we don't need a ball winning DM. Bozsik with support from Ballack and Didi should have enough defensive nous in the midfield

Defence :

Arguably 2 of the greatest German full backs and supported by one of the Greatest goalkeeper of all time

Add the greatest Soviet defender and one of the classiest defenders in the last 20 years, we have a defense shutting out the best of attacks

Schnellinger will be the more balanced full back given he has Gento in front of him and Lahm will be the more attacking of the two supporting Kubala

Shesternyov and Carvalho are both comfortable on the ball and should be able to handle Elkjær

Why we will win

1) Simply a better attack. The goal scoring record of Seeler and Kubala is simply higher than Stoichkov and Elkjær

2) More creativity in midfield in Didi, Bozsik and Ballack are incisive in their passing and expect them to create opportunities for my attack.

TEAM ONENIL

Well my first idea was a 4-6-0 formation like this:

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/03/05/teams-of-the-decade-5-roma-2007/


But it morphed a bit through drafting by necessity. I guess its best called a technical counter-attacking side. Its built around a rock solid defense and having great passers in defense (Hierro) and midfield (Masopust) combined with a technical, pacy and tricky front 3 in Stoichkov, Elkjaer and Jairzinho. This front three is meant to be capable of many different attacking schemes. Elkjaer can drop deep and facilitate Jairzinho and Stoichkov or he be the most forward player on a counter-attack getting on the end of a Masopust or Hierro pass.


Luis Enrique plays a dynamic hard working role contributing to all phases with his verve and foraging. His dribbling will help break down the toughest defenses while his versatility will play off all my other players. Masopust and Desailly complete a complementary and potent midfield trio.


My defense is rock solid and complementary with players capable of defending soundly in the air or with the ball on the ground. Thuram is probably the best player in the pool for stopping Gento.
 
Good luck @Indnyc

Just quick post here on Elkjaer thanks to Harms and joga:


harms and Joga on Elkjaer
If Laudrup characterized the genius at the heart of the Danish Dynamites, Lerby the sheer drive, then Elkjaer was the epitome of the sheer explosiveness and verticality behind his sides. Elkjaer on his trademark barnstorming rampages, like a man possessed was always quite the sight to behold. A potent blend of explosiveness, nifty footwork, pace and sheer physicality made Elkjaer a unique and at times unstoppable tour de force, capable of wreaking havoc on even the most sturdiest and organised defenses (just ask the peak eighties Serie A defenses).

He was determination incarnate, and his seemingly endless lung capacity is even more amazing given that he was a chain smoker. Often he would go on me-against-the-world runs, culminating most notably in famous strikes against Belgium and USSR. He would simply run through defenders (see his goal against Scotland in 1986) and if a brick wall got in the way, well, he'd take his chances. In short, nothing was going to stop him scoring, and it was fitting that, in the 1984-85 season in which he inspired little Verona to the Serie A title, he scored a superb solo goal against the reigning champions Juventus with no boot on his right foot, having lost it during a surge down the left. He nagged away at defenders constantly, inverting the 80s relationship between defender and attacker, and must have been a nightmare to play against.

Yet there was so much more to Elkjær than raw desire. He had wonderful balance and sublime skill: one ninja-like turn on Russell Osman during the 2-2 draw in 1982 boggles the mind almost as much as the famous Dennis Bergkamp goal at Newcastle; he developed the Elkjær turn, a spin-off of the Cruyff turn, when he was on holiday in Barbados and saw kids playing with coconuts on the beach. He was an incredibly aggressive finisher with both feet, from short – and long range; and if he was occasionally iffy in the air, his overall record – 38 in 69 games – brooks no argument. Truly, there have been very few forwards in the game's history with such a complete range of skills. He came third in the Ballon d'Or in 1984, second in 1985 and fourth in 1986. He also won the Bronze Ball at Mexico 86, the only instance of a player knocked out in the last 16 winning this award.

 


Great video of Uwe Seeler thanks to Sjor.

I don't really have a lot to criticize @oneniltothearsenal team because it is fantastic. Will try focus on my team and where we can get an edge

The areas where i feel we are superior are in the goal scoring department.

His primary goal scorer is Elkjaer who scored 143 goals in 333 club games; 38 in 69 games for country and Stoichkov scored 219 in 454 games for club and 37 in 83 for country.

Compare this to Seeler (404 goals in 476 club games; 43 in 72 for country) and Kubala (217 goals in 379 games; 15 in 28 for country) and it's clear that we have a superior goal scoring record.

Jairzinho and Gento have a fairly similar record and same for Ballack and Enrique
 
Some videos of 1958 golden ball winner, Didi. He is playing his preferred role from the left where i can see him causing quite a bit of trouble and feeding my front 3 pretty well.

Didi 1958 vs. France




Didi 1958 vs. Sweden

 
A great video of Josek Bozsik and why i feel he is perfect for the role. Can launch quick attacks from the back while protecting the defense



A great article i came across in my research.

The legendary József Bozsik - Hungary's all-time international player with 101 appearances, the greatest center-half in the world who was the metronome from 1947 to 1962.

Through a longtime player of impactful tenure the team achieved a state of great flow. Plumb in the middle of the field there was a player who put attack and defense into communicable order for a workable unity and whose potent reputation traveled wide. Of all the prominent players between 1947 and 1962, the great wing-half Jozsef Bozsik was driven by the most sophisticated awareness that contrived the balance which had produced the seeds of majesty in the Puskas and Kocsis touch. József Bozsik's prime and lasting aim was always being the mediating intercessor and magnificent technician in the inner-workings of the Hungarian team who liked both to defend and attack, who on one or two occasions threw himself into scoring situations with feeling to bring about goals from deep. His eyes attuned to nuance as the innate navigator who crafted matches' thorough answers, Jozsef Bozsik's thoughtful and technical ball placement was unimpeachable from his earliest youth days when he played alongside Puskás at Honvéd since 1943. Jozsef Bozsik is the center through which unnumbered lines of connection pass because his real effort is one of throwing midfield into shape and order with inexhaustible energies.

From the tender age of five or six from the days when they were literal next door neighbors in an apartment flat that overlooked the local football park for Kispest, Puskás and Jozsef Bozsik — the middle son of five boys — had been inseparable best friends as the game's allure spoke over their lives and early on developed a signaling system of wall knocks to indicate 'How about a soccer game?' Brought up with the roar of the Kispest crowd in his ears, both had risen through the youth, junior and senior levels at the local football club, Kispest, almost simultaneously and graduated to the varsity national team just a year and a half apart in 1945 and 1947 respectively. With Puskás at Honvéd (The Army sponsored 'Homeland Defenders'), there he joins men on a star-spangled team with Sándor Kocsis, keeper Grosics, defender Gyula Lóránt and wingers László Budai and Czibor already involved, and showed players manifesting greatness and speeded their stride to set up Honvéd as the world's best club side and on another level make Hungary the rainmaking footballing Avalon of a good part of the 1950s — which rejoiced in setting up a garden of explosively uniting paths that most everyone saw reaching a climax in the 1954 World Cup Final.

Bozsik's soulful studied play and often loud intensity was known more for a focused glowering intelligent playmaking than scoring goals that telepathically came into Puskas' game with an emphatic closeness since their first youth games almost twenty years before amid more hardscrabble times of the inter-war period. Puskas himself, who had played with and against the very elites of the game, described Jozsef Bozsik as "the greatest player I ever saw or knew", and Bozsik later became the most durably featured bona fide ironman and tailoring choreographer in Hungary's footballing history, going onto to captain Hungary after Puskas' departure up until 1962 with 101 made appearances, the country's most ever. Bozsik had been the authentic penetrating power who mentally tests out all possible versions in peppering the ball impeccably up and down the field and sweepingly side to side who was a major thread in the bright weave of the team whose reading of the game was at its highest level.

In leading Hungary to three World Cups in 1954, 1958, 1962, Jozsef Bozsik sifted, coordinated, and battens the squad by projecting numberless completions through defenses with scrupulous attention to detail and performed an enormous labor in helping compose sixty-seven victories in his career. Midfield's compass showing no slackening of vigor, Bozsik sedulously strikes out new paths in explaining matches penetratingly. He is the great equalizer of his age and land supplying what wants supplying and checks what wants checking, he is a seer, attack and defense corroborate themselves to him. People expect of Bozsik to indicate the path as an edifice in midfield to put a solid address on the match who perceives the beauty of the game well enough; and for fifteen years in his country's service Jozsef Bozsik was a veritable anthem for Hungarian football with a picture emerging of an "officer and gentleman" incredibly crowned.

With perhaps some seeing less than there was to Jozsef Bozsik since his playing on an team behind the Iron Curtain and on the cusp of the viability of television as one of the most underrated special players ever at the peak of his virtuous creative powers, the radius of influence of the great Jozsef Bozsik was very large on results and retired with lasting elegance as a truly charmed soul whose esteem remains robust.
 
This is a tough choice, well done both, will follow discussions.
 
Classic case of putting too many playmakers in middle for Indnyc. Ballack was industrious but he was a attacking CM despite playing deeper for Chelsea than Germany. That midfield is still better than the likes of Malouda, but he's up against one of the best midfield's in recent R1 teams.
 
Classic case of putting too many playmakers in middle for Indnyc. Ballack was industrious but he was a attacking CM despite playing deeper for Chelsea than Germany. That midfield is still better than the likes of Malouda, but he's up against one of the best midfield's in recent R1 teams.

Sorry but this i don't agree that i have too many playmakers. Ballack was one of the best midfielders of his generation and could virtually play anywhere in the midfield and do a great job.

This is him against one of the greatest midfield of all time and he was perfect in being defensive. Individually i would rate him higher than Enrique.



Not to mention Didi played in a 2 man midfield and you can see from his video that he was fairly comfortable coming deep and helping out the midfield.
 
Lot's to love about the defense from Onenil but i would argue my defense is no worse. Here is a quote from Enigma on tier's of central defenders

Yeah, that's pretty much spot on, I agree with all that with minor changes.

I'd have
T0 Beckenbauer (he's not the best pure defender - but as an overall effect on the game and on the pitch)
T0,5 Baresi
T1 Figueroa, Moore, Scirea
T1,5 Nesta, Kohler, Passarella, Maldini, Thuram, Sammer, Santamaria, Krol
T2 Bergomi, Rio, Forster, Godin, Desailly, Chumpitaz, Cannavaro, Tresor, Shesternyov
T2.5 Vidic, Stam, Campbell, Ruggeri, McGrath, Blanc, Lucio, Vierchowod, Nasazzi, Vasovic, Gentile, Ferrara, Carvalho
T3 Adams, Perfumo, Koeman, Hierro, Schulz, Picchi, Puyol, Olsen, Wright..

and the likes.

Shesternyov and Carvalho are as good a pairing as Cannavaro and Hierro. To anybody doubting Carvalho's credentials, here are his individual honors.
Hopefully i don't have to sell Lahm and Schnellinger
 
Another excellent piece of research by @Enigma_87. Kubala was voted the greatest Barcelona player of all time ahead of the likes of Cruyff, and Suarez

Man, Myth or a Legend - Ladislao Kubala

The man who built Camp Nou.

ladislao_kubala.jpg
Messi, Ronaldo, Ibrahimovic, etc - forwards who dazzle the world and attract fans regardless of club favorites. They are under the full media highlight and attention. Alas that is not the case with Ladislao Kubala - the man who created miracles that were never taped at the time.

Camp Nou in Barcelona is one of the most beautiful stadiums in Europe, carries a peculiar name: "The home that Kubala built". Kubala was a player, forward, whose art on the football pitch made building that grand stadium a required task. During the 50's just about everyone wanted to watch Kubala live.

During those times the game was not all about physical qualities but more elegance, more artistic. Alfredo Di Stefano, the blond arrow, at the time bold arrow would be more apt, carried and caressed the ball in such manner that everybody was lost for words expecting the next beautiful move and another spectacle at the Bernabeu.

Kubala - the biggest opponent of Di Stefano when it comes to expressing himself on the pitch was a player that did his trade in the rival Barcelona. His style was not always that intense like Di Stefano's and is probably one of the few artists left at that time - like the Brazillian Arthur Friedenreich, the world champion from 1930 - Jose Andrade and the "Paper man" Matthias Sindelaar.

During his early years Kubala plays for Budapest Ferencváros. Ever since then he's described as one of those offensive players that creates the chances for himself and his excellent finishing ability was well appreciated at the time. At the age of 17 he's called for international duty to play for Hungary. He had a little time tho showcase his talent at the time tho, as he deserts his military duty in Czechoslovakia and after tough few months he receives an offer to play for Bratislava - a team which becomes a champion at the tender age of 19-20 and immediately receives a call for the Czechoslovakia national team as well.



In 1948 he returns to Hungary to play for Vasas along with other greats at the time - Puskas and Hidegkuti. Just a year later however, he decides to ditch the communist regime at the time and flees to Austria then to Italy to play for Pro-patria, then a game for Torino. Whilst at Torino for his fortune he wasn't part of the team that flew over the Alps and unfortunately crashed as Hunary at the time accuses Kubala of being a traitor and not fulfuling his contract with Vasas at the time. He was later banned for a year and along with couple of friends he founds "Hungaria" - an amateur team that was touring around Europe playing some exhibition games.

There were all sorts of players in that team, but none close to the technical ability, vision and talent that Kubala possessed. He had a phenomenal shot and read the game like nobody else at the time. In the Summer of 1950 that amateur team nearly brought the Spanish national team at the time at the brink of defeat. That day was a day to remember for all Spanish and Barcelona supporters as Pepe Samitier - a club legend and director at the time approaches Kubala and offers to change his fortune.

When Kubala landed in the Spanish League he became a top-notch scorer, despite his favorite position being the right interior, in charge of assisting César or launching balls to the wingers. His love of tactics made him come up with an almost childish, but utterly effective, way of driving rival defenses dizzy: He alternates his position with César’s. With just a look of acknowledgement, one fell back to take the defender out of his position while the other moved into the center of the attack.

And indeed he does - his ban is lifted while in the meantime Real Madrid approaches Kubala as well trying to get him to Bernabeu. Kubala firmly denies and eventually becomes the highest buy for Barcelona at the time. On 2nd of April 1951 he plays his first game for Barcelona and immediately receives a call up for the Spanish national side. For Spain he plays 19 games scoring 11 goals. Unfortunately at the time he never gets the chance to play in WC tournament.

Una leyenda

Contrary to his international career his club one is something to brag about. Along with other Barca attackers - Basora, César, Manchón, Moreno he wins everything in sight in his first three seasons in Catalunia. In his 11 years at Barca he scores impressive 243 goals in 329 games. His exquisite vision, impeccable reading of the game, perfectly weighted and time passes along with his genius way of thinking dazzled a whole generation. A generation that he undoubtedly ruled on his own. As usually at the time he was often brutally fouled, upended and kicked about, but his physique and will on the pitch was really something special.

In his first season he led the club to victory in the Generalisimo’s Cup. The season after was even more successful – with Kubala scoring 26 goals in 19 games, a record comparable with the phenomenal feats of Cristiano Ronaldo and Lio Messi in today’s game, and Barcelona won all 5 competitions it entered.

Kubala's success continued - another three league titles, four domestic cups and even two Inter-Cities Fairs Cups followed the five-trophy season, but there was one title that would remain conspicuous in its absence.

In 1961, having eliminated Real Madrid in the first round, Barca lost the European Cup final 3-2 to Benfica. Kubala, who was by then in his mid-30s, hit the post twice against the Portuguese club. That Kubala is remembered as one of Barcelona's greatest ever despite failing to win the European Cup perhaps says as much about his class as converting one of those two chances in the final would have.

Kubala was a revolutionary, and his story is proof of the fact that Barcelona, and by extension Spanish football, dismisses the lessons that can be derived from his evolution, ignores that historical memory from which so much might be extracted. Very few know and recognize in this day and age that Kubala deserves the role of a visionary capable of opening a new era, later shared with his friend Di Stefano, another genius who changed the personality and fate of his institution

With Kubala came modern times. He was Picasso in his area. He and Di Stefano were friends, both revolutionaries who are comparable philosophically. If Kubala is a pioneer of the current Barcelona model, Di Stéfano also deserves a highlighted place for inspiring that air of a team unable to give up in his Real Madrid, something that still prevails in last minute comebacks when fury is unleashed at the Bernabéu.

Kubala had everything, and watching the still-impressive footage of him in his pomp, it isn't difficult to believe that assessment. Incredibly robust thanks to his love of amateur boxing, he was also capable of pirouetting on the ball or using a drag-back to dumbfound defenders and goalkeepers. To top it off, he possessed a finishing touch.

Some nice videos of him:


https://www.footbie.com/video/ladislao-kubala-fc-barcelona-legend

The title of Frederic Porta's 2012 biography of Kubala is "The Hero Who Changed Barca's History," and that phrase sums up his importance to the club. A before-and-after moment is marked by his arrival: Without him, Barcelona's trophy cabinet would be significantly less full, and without his ability to fill Les Corts to the rafters, the plans to build the Camp Nou may not have pressed ahead.
 
Not sure that Ballack is the right man at all to bring that midfield together for Indnyc - was never a defensive midfielder at his best and even as a box-to-box player he veered heavily towards the offensive. I remember when he came to Chelsea and he definitely played a more limited role there, but that was far from peak Ballack.

Both Bozsik and Didi could have done with a purer defensive presence there to provide some balance.
 
Shesternyov and Carvalho are as good a pairing as Cannavaro and Hierro
Nope. They are not that far behind, but there is a clear winner in that comparison — and the lists of Cannavaro's and Hierro's achievements are even longer than this of Carvalho.
 
Not sure that Ballack is the right man at all to bring that midfield together for Indnyc - was never a defensive midfielder at his best and even as a box-to-box player he veered heavily towards the offensive. I remember when he came to Chelsea and he definitely played a more limited role there, but that was far from peak Ballack.

Both Bozsik and Didi could have done with a purer defensive presence there to provide some balance.

Ballack started his career as a sweeper actually. I already posted a video highlighting his role here where he can perfectly play a B2B role. He played for attacking for his German clubs i agree but that isn't the role i am playing him here.. He would be further ahead if that is the case.

I don't see onenil scoring in the game. I think my defense stacks up quite nicely to his attack
 
Shesternyov's and Carvalho's pace will come in handy against that rapid trio. I think that the balance of ind's midfield is a bit off — you'd want a selfless water-carrier with those two. Not a fan of Enrique in that company too though. Gento will have some fun running at Hierro — but that's if he beats Thuram of all people.

Tough one.
 
Nope. They are not that far behind, but there is a clear winner in that comparison — and the lists of Cannavaro's and Hierro's achievements are even longer than this of Carvalho.
I have to disagree there. Obviously Cannavaro's peak at the WC puts him in front of many others in terms of that separate performance, but if you consider consistency Shesternyov was making most of those Ballon Do'r lists, in front of guys like Eusebio, Facchetti, Charlton, Djazic and the likes. He was prominently featuring and considered as one of the best defenders of the decade in the 60's. Was really impressed with his 66 WC for as well, where he wasn't at his absolute peak.

I'd put them at the same tier, one can argue to rank one before the other but to me Cannavaro tends to be a tad overrated based on solely that 06 WC.

Cannavaro would be the popular choice but in terms of agility and pure defensive sense I'd argue Shesternyov is as good as him in every department.

On Hierro/Carvalho. Again I'd rather not overrate Carvalho, but he was a prominent figure in every great Jose defensive line over the years and he based his defence around him. He also had a great EURO and doesn't have many weak spots at his peak, whilst Hierro tends to have issue with more agile and faster on the turn attackers.

Having said that both defences look mint and compliment really well. Hierro's ability on the ball is well appreciated between the physical Cannavaro/Hierro.

Onenil has the better protection for his defence having Desailly in front of it but Indnyc has a lot better keeper between the sticks.

Fairly even matched teams. Seeler is bound to create a lot of problems for Hierro and Cannavaro, but Gento is well countered by Thuram.

Lahm on the other side is a great fit for Stoichkov, whilst Jairzinho can create some problems for Schnellinger.

Onenil has the better midfield and quite industrious to boot, but that Didi/Seeler link is something else if Didi is given the space and time on the ball.
 
I have to disagree there. Obviously Cannavaro's peak at the WC puts him in front of many others in terms of that separate performance, but if you consider consistency Shesternyov was making most of those Ballon Do'r lists, in front of guys like Eusebio, Facchetti, Charlton, Djazic and the likes. He was prominently featuring and considered as one of the best defenders of the decade in the 60's. Was really impressed with his 66 WC for as well, where he wasn't at his absolute peak.

I'd put them at the same tier, one can argue to rank one before the other but to me Cannavaro tends to be a tad overrated based on solely that 06 WC.

Cannavaro would be the popular choice but in terms of agility and pure defensive sense I'd argue Shesternyov is as good as him in every department.
I know that you're a Shesternyov's fan and as a Soviet football's enthusiast I'm really glad that he's getting the recognition he deserves, but I'd still put him in a tier below personally. I think that Cannavaro's early years are a bit underrated, actually, as he was outshined even in his teams (Parma/Italy) by Thuram and Nesta (really the best of the best) — thrice in a row finishing 2nd behind Nesta in Serie A defender of the year vote in the early 00's. But if he was playing in the 60's (or even if his career were to began 5 or 6 years later), he would've had a good few years (perhaps more) as the unquestionably best center back in the world. Makes me respect him even more that when he was given that chance by Nesta's unlucky injury, he had taken it in such a striking fashion.
 
And therein lies our comments. The German version is the peak Ballack who played almost as a #10. Chelsea version was a very limited and frankly boring version of a player who was much better than that.
A boring version maybe, but definitely still a class player who could hold his own against a good midfield
 
I have to disagree there. Obviously Cannavaro's peak at the WC puts him in front of many others in terms of that separate performance, but if you consider consistency Shesternyov was making most of those Ballon Do'r lists, in front of guys like Eusebio, Facchetti, Charlton, Djazic and the likes. He was prominently featuring and considered as one of the best defenders of the decade in the 60's. Was really impressed with his 66 WC for as well, where he wasn't at his absolute peak.

I'd put them at the same tier, one can argue to rank one before the other but to me Cannavaro tends to be a tad overrated based on solely that 06 WC.

Cannavaro would be the popular choice but in terms of agility and pure defensive sense I'd argue Shesternyov is as good as him in every department.

On Hierro/Carvalho. Again I'd rather not overrate Carvalho, but he was a prominent figure in every great Jose defensive line over the years and he based his defence around him. He also had a great EURO and doesn't have many weak spots at his peak, whilst Hierro tends to have issue with more agile and faster on the turn attackers.

Having said that both defences look mint and compliment really well. Hierro's ability on the ball is well appreciated between the physical Cannavaro/Hierro.

Onenil has the better protection for his defence having Desailly in front of it but Indnyc has a lot better keeper between the sticks.

Fairly even matched teams. Seeler is bound to create a lot of problems for Hierro and Cannavaro, but Gento is well countered by Thuram.

Lahm on the other side is a great fit for Stoichkov, whilst Jairzinho can create some problems for Schnellinger.

Onenil has the better midfield and quite industrious to boot, but that Didi/Seeler link is something else if Didi is given the space and time on the ball.

Just on this bit.. Jairzinho and Schnellinger haven't played each other but Schnellinger came across great wide forwards in his career a few times and has successfully dealt with them.

For example, he played Kurt Hamrin 9 times in his career and Hamrin scored just once. Jinky Johnson played him thrice and didn't score.

Of course it is more nuanced than that and it could well be they provided assists (sadly limited data for that is available) but it raises a point that Onenil's goal scoring opportunities are limited
 
I know that you're a Shesternyov's fan and as a Soviet football's enthusiast I'm really glad that he's getting the recognition he deserves, but I'd still put him in a tier below personally. I think that Cannavaro's early years are a bit underrated, actually, as he was outshined even in his teams (Parma/Italy) by Thuram and Nesta (really the best of the best) — thrice in a row finishing 2nd behind Nesta in Serie A defender of the year vote in the early 00's. But if he was playing in the 60's (or even if his career were to began 5 or 6 years later), he would've had a good few years (perhaps more) as the unquestionably best center back in the world. Makes me respect him even more that when he was given that chance by Nesta's unlucky injury, he had taken it in such a striking fashion.
Absolutely no doubts about Cannavaro's credentials and he is up there with the best defenders of all time. My point was more that my defense isn't significantly worse and does stack up well against his goal threats.
 
Onenil has the better midfield and quite industrious to boot, but that Didi/Seeler link is something else if Didi is given the space and time on the ball.

I would think Didi would have lot of space especially as Onenil is trying to play a counter attacking game.
 


I know he is well known but sometimes he gets taken for granted. I know he is against Thuram but at his best he was probably the best of the lot.

He came inside, went outside and with his pace was an absolute menace. Even against the best defenses, i would think he'll have a great impact
 
Some good comments on both sides. Just to respond to two general themes.

I know my front 3 doesn’t have the career club scoring rates on par with Messi and Ronaldo but all of them have remarkable goal scoring feats in big and important games. Jairzinho and Stoichkov were both World Cup Golden Boot winners and Elkjaer was phenomenal in the 86 Cup. I can link videos but all three of these players have a lot of different goals in their arsenal and history because of their technique and skillset. Stoichkov rose to the occasion in the final group stage of the EC that he helped Barca win.

For the defense I could have used Tresor for an even stronger pure defensive backline. But since he is surrounded by Cannavaro, Desailly and Thuram I thought that position would be better for the overall balance of the team if Hierro was there instead because of his passing range and ability on the ball. It gives my defense an extra dimension to take advantage of the opponent’s mistakes. If Didi or Ballack got caught out, Hierro could quickly punish by feeding the front 4 dribblers.

Masopust
I wanted to try to put together a good, long Masopust post to highlight but I haven’t been able to find the time.

Here are some quotes from articles:

“Masopust was the left-sided driving force of his club and country, and inspired his team-mates with his goals, dribbles, tireless running and eye for a defence-splitting pass.
“At club level, his genius made Dukla Prague one of the most potent sides in Eastern Europe, if not the world, during the post-war period, winning eight league championships as well as the 1961 International Soccer League, beating Red Star Belgrade, Rapid Vienna, Monaco and Espanyol before defeating Everton 9-2 in the final.

In a memorable 1959 exhibition match with Pele’s Santos, he reportedly overshadowed the Brazilian striker, outfoxing Dukla’s more vaunted opponents with his dribbles and a brace of goals as they won the game 4-3.”

“Masopust was one of the greatest players I ever saw,” Pele later remarked, according to www.fifa.com. “But it is not possible that he was born in Europe. With those explosive dribbles, he had to be Brazilian!”

FC Teplice, which was in the League, persuaded his father to allow Josef to join them and leave Most. And after two successful years in Teplice the army drafted him. The important fifteen-year long contract in Dukla Prague (at the beginning ATK, then UDA, from 1956 Dukla), during which Josef Masopust became a football artist. Left midfielder, special and inimitable. He did not possess jump, did not possess sprint but he was a creator of the game, outstanding strategist, refined technician with unique lead of the ball and a good goal scorer. Apart from that he had exceptional feet. He was not afraid to receive a pass in any part of the field even on his own goal line. He played for the fans, making them not only enthusiastic but excited too. He led the ball calmly and confidently, he rejoiced when he could get hold of the ball and keep everybody in suspense.

While in Dukla they won the title of the League Masters eight times and conquered the world. They won the American Cup four times and proceeded to be among the best teams of the European Cup (the predecessor of current UEFA Champions League) and won many precious victories over world rivals, including the memorable match with the world´s best team which at the time was Brazilian FC Santos. After this match Pelé himself came to bow down to Masopust as the biggest star of the match. Josef in Dukla became, above all, a member of the team which was unique. And together with Ladislav Novák and Svatopluk Pluskal created the “holy Trinity“ which set the tone not only in Dukla but also in the national team of Czechoslovakia. His personality contributed to a great extent to winning of the third place at European Championship in France in 1960 and mainly to the second place at World Championship in Chile in 1962. He repeatedly played as a member of distinguished football teams of the whole world or in Europe and as a first player from Eastern Europe was awarded the Golden Ball award for the best player of Europe. Towards the end of his football career he was allowed as the first football player during the era of the communist regime to accept a contract abroad. Therefore he played football at top level until the age of thirty-nine and his last club was Belgian Royal Crossing Molenbeek.

No matter how tired he was when he was returning home from his training, when boys ambushed him in the street and asked him to kick the ball with them he could not resist. He would roll over with them in the backyard with his typical dishevelled black hair. He was unable to exist without football. When he finished his career as a player he became a coach at the beginning of the seventies. With the Dukla juniors he achieved many international successes, he led Zbrojovka Brno to the league title, worked for four years as the coach of the national team, he even coached in Indonesia. And then his lifelong work came to fruition.

He was declared the Czech Football Personality of the Century, he was awarded Fair Play Prize, the Medal for Achievements for the Country in sport and many other awards. When he was asked some time ago to pass some message to the young football players of Dukla, he said:“ An exceptional player can decide maybe two or three out of ten matches. But a cooperating team can win every match.“ He appreciated his teammates and was aware how significantly they contributed to his football dream. And he had some other strokes of good fortune.

This is a good video of his game against a loaded Spanish side (with Puskas, Suarez, Gento, Santamaria, Segarra)


he is capable of b2b runs and goals that has shades of Socrate’s goal against Italy
 
Absolutely no doubts about Cannavaro's credentials and he is up there with the best defenders of all time. My point was more that my defense isn't significantly worse and does stack up well against his goal threats.

That's true, considering how late you drafted defenders, you filled that defense very well.
 
An interesting point is how neutrals see Kubala against Camacho?

Especially if he is double teamed with Lahm overlapping?
 
Arrows on Luis Enrique looks odd, shouldn't they be on Masopust who was more attacking of the two ? Overall I think Didi-Seeler-Gento-Kubala combination is very tasty and has more goals in it. While Cannavaro - Hierro combinatino is better than Indnyc defense in isolation, I think Shesternyov - Carvalho should be able to handle Elkjaer better than Onenil's defense against Seeler. Shesternyov's athleticism (One of the fastest defender of all time, over 6 ft tall and was a sprinter in his youth) combined with his defensive acumen is really the cryptonite for Elkjaer's pressing game.
 
Arrows on Luis Enrique looks odd, shouldn't they be on Masopust who was more attacking of the two ? Overall I think Didi-Seeler-Gento-Kubala combination is very tasty and has more goals in it. While Cannavaro - Hierro combinatino is better than Indnyc defense in isolation, I think Shesternyov - Carvalho should be able to handle Elkjaer better than Onenil's defense against Seeler. Shesternyov's athleticism (One of the fastest defender of all time, over 6 ft tall and was a sprinter in his youth) combined with his defensive acumen is really the cryptonite for Elkjaer's pressing game.

Are you a Hyperion fan?
 
Arrows on Luis Enrique looks odd, shouldn't they be on Masopust who was more attacking of the two ?
A major feature of Luis Enrique's style of play was breaking lines with his direct runs so you can see how he can get some space stretching beyond Didi and Bozsik here. That side of Indnyc's defence looks robust and dynamic, so I can't see Enrique necessarily getting past them, but with Jairzinho keeping them honest, he could get into decent shooting positions from 20-25 yards.
 
Are you a Hyperion fan?
Yeah !
A major feature of Luis Enrique's style of play was breaking lines with his direct runs so you can see how he can get some space stretching beyond Didi and Bozsik here. That side of Indnyc's defence looks robust and dynamic, so I can't see Enrique necessarily getting past them, but with Jairzinho keeping them honest, he could get into decent shooting positions from 20-25 yards.
Agreed that Lucho could do the part of making direct runs to the box well enough. However out of him and Masopust I think Enrique was more defensively solid or at least more aggressive like Herrera. On the other hand Masopust was on a different level in technique and dribbling to Enrique and long mazy runs were part of his game. I think out of the two, Masopust is the one who should & would push forward more often. Those arrows are not big deal though, its just something I found a little odd.
 
Yeah !

Agreed that Lucho could do the part of making direct runs to the box well enough. However out of him and Masopust I think Enrique was more defensively solid or at least more aggressive like Herrera. On the other hand Masopust was on a different level in technique and dribbling to Enrique and long mazy runs were part of his game. I think out of the two, Masopust is the one who should & would push forward more often. Those arrows are not big deal though, its just something I found a little odd.
Indeed, Masopust offers more quality on the ball and much less physicality off it.
 
Holy feck, how did onenil lost this game?

It's all your fault of course.

You did not vote, which would have made it a draw. This would have sent it to penalties. In a normal year, Indnyc's 5 Germans would have been an instant win. But England winning a penalty shootout in a World Cup proves that Mars is in retrograde and the cosmic rays will always cause a team with Germans to lose a penalty shootout in 2018.
So I blame you and the Zimartinis you were drinking :mad:

girlinmartini.png