Rio smokescreen?

the reporter

Guest
With all the talk about Rio Ferdinand - what of the Nesta situation?
There has been little news from Italy surrounding the Lazio captain... Lazio say they want to reduce their playing staff by six... no further news of Nesta bids from Juve or Inter... and didn't SAF say he would be pursuing the Nesta situation once the World Cup was over?
All this talk about Rio might be deflecting the press - and us - away from united's real target.
Just a thought.... don't shoot me...
 
Its likely a smokescreen to get us thinking about Nesta, when we're actually only interested in Rio. ;)
 
Originally posted by the reporter:
<strong>With all the talk about Rio Ferdinand - what of the Nesta situation?
There has been little news from Italy surrounding the Lazio captain... Lazio say they want to reduce their playing staff by six... no further news of Nesta bids from Juve or Inter... and didn't SAF say he would be pursuing the Nesta situation once the World Cup was over?
All this talk about Rio might be deflecting the press - and us - away from united's real target.
Just a thought.... don't shoot me...</strong><hr></blockquote>


With O'Leary participating in the smoke screen? Not
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Originally posted by Raoul:
<strong>Its likely a smokescreen to get us thinking about Nesta, when we're actually only interested in Rio. ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

Reverse psychology... nice!
But surely everyone is now talking about Rio when Nesta isn't mentioned?
Surely the idea of a smokescreen is to cloud what is actually what is going on?
All this Rio talk could be perfect for United to deflect the press etc away from their main aim? I'm probably wrong, but I just can't help being suspicious... it's in my nature.
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Originally posted by Travis Bickle:
<strong>


With O'Leary participating in the smoke screen? Not</strong><hr></blockquote>

I doubt that O'Leary is a willing participant - he's likely just buying into it like everyone else.
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Originally posted by the reporter:
<strong>

All this Rio talk could be perfect for United to deflect the press etc away from their main aim? </strong><hr></blockquote>

What would United gain from that?
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Fergie did say that he was interested in Nesta BEFORE the WC... feck knows whats going on..however i doubt whether Leeds would participate in a 'smokescreen'...thats unless, they think United's interest is geniune.
 
Originally posted by JSV:
<strong>

What would United gain from that?</strong><hr></blockquote>

So they can get the deal done as quietly and efficiently as possible with little interference from the media and agents etc? Just thinking out loud here... it all seems a little strange that SAF says he's going to try to get Nesta after the World Cup, then nothing...
Anyway, didn't United say they won't be swayed in their targets by performances at the World Cup? Sure, they had a passing interest in Rio Ferdinand six or seven weeks ago, but the Nesta interest WAS confirmed...
Why then would United have gone back on their comments after Rio's four or five good performances in Japan? He didn't exactly shore up the Leeds defence last season (though, granted, he did have Ian Harte in defence with him).
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Originally posted by the reporter:
<strong>

So they can get the deal done as quietly and efficiently as possible with little interference from the media and agents etc? Just thinking out loud here... it all seems a little strange that SAF says he's going to try to get Nesta after the World Cup, then nothing...
Anyway, didn't United say they won't be swayed in their targets by performances at the World Cup? Sure, they had a passing interest in Rio Ferdinand six or seven weeks ago, but the Nesta interest WAS confirmed...
Why then would United have gone back on their comments after Rio's four or five good performances in Japan? He didn't exactly shore up the Leeds defence last season (though, granted, he did have Ian Harte in defence with him).</strong><hr></blockquote>

United have made quotes on both players in the past. I can see how the agents could get in the way, but the media's effects can't be that influential can they? Following on, surely when big deals are going down in the background agents hear about these things anyway? That said, the Stam deal was a total shock, probably due to it happening so quickly. The only sure thing one can say is that nothing is for sure when it comes to player transfers. Just have to wait and see.
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In fairness kids we should be a bit suspicious of Edward's intentions. Its very unusual for him to come out and say what he said. Maybe it was all for the city, drive the share price in some direction. Although given that he's sold most of his shares even that doesn't make sense. On second thoughts maybe we are actually chasing Ferdinand and thats the end of it.
 
I can't believe what Martin Edwards has to say has any relevance any more. He may be club chairman, but I doubt he has much say. I thought Peter Kenyon was the man doing the wheelin'n'dealin' these days. Edwards is clinging on to the last remenants of power he has left - and can't be taken seriously. I bet Fergie and Pete are a little pissed off with him - but then, they always have been, are and will be anyway.
Besides, if Manchester United PLC is a business, surlely the most attractive business deal is not to splash the cash (£30m, whatever) on Ferdinand. If Edwards is right about this 'asset stripping' then the best solution would be to sell off you most rapidly diminishing return (Veron?) before it's too late. The most logical business solution would then be to send Veron off to his 'beloved' Lazio and bring Nesta in. No?
 
Originally posted by the reporter:
<strong> The most logical business solution would then be to send Veron off to his 'beloved' Lazio and bring Nesta in. No?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well given that we need to rebuild the defence then yeah that would be a very logical move. I don't how real the Nesta rumours are though. I mean the place for a top Italian defender to become a real legend is Italy. He's a great player and I'd love to see him at OT but I just can't see it happening. The Italians don't regard the Premiership as a strong league for defenders and I think vanity might prevent Alesandro ever going to OT as a result.

As for Edwards, I dunno, it is just really weird that he came out and said what he said. I mean surely if you go public with our interest in Ferdinand you run the risk of running his transfer fee up! Leeds know we want him now and can publically play hardball with the fee to attempt to quell their own fans anger. So maybe sneaky Edwards is trying to make life hard for Kenyon and SAF.
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Originally posted by the reporter:
<strong>The most logical business solution would then be to send Veron off to his 'beloved' Lazio and bring Nesta in. No?</strong><hr></blockquote>

and what guarantee would we have that we don't face the bloody same situation with Nesta claiming his heart still belongs to Lazio eh?.....that's about the only thing about Nesta that worries jedi master, otherwise he'd be brilliant....english blokes don't seem to have much sentiment for their clubs 'cept if they're from our United ;) ........
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Originally posted by Rory 7:
<strong>

Well given that we need to rebuild the defence then yeah that would be a very logical move. I don't how real the Nesta rumours are though. I mean the place for a top Italian defender to become a real legend is Italy. He's a great player and I'd love to see him at OT but I just can't see it happening. The Italians don't regard the Premiership as a strong league for defenders and I think vanity might prevent Alesandro ever going to OT as a result.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Problem is that Lazio are in the same situation as Leeds - they need to sell a player or two.
If you were Lazio boss would you rather sell Nesta to another Italian club, or sell him out of the country?
Lazio would find it hard to live with their 'favourite son' playing across the country at Juventus - hence veron came to united I suppose - but it would be easier to accept him playing at Manchester United. And what better way to placate angry fans by replacing one favourite son with another (Veron) plus a few extra pennies on the bank account?
Similarly, Leeds would obviously rather sell Rio Ferdinand to Italy rather than have him in the red of United just down the road...
And with United's standing in the world game, surely the Italian national squad would still have to pick Nesta providing he performs - especially in the champions league. It's not like we're the wannabes at Chelsea, are we? Moving to United didn't do Forlan any harm in maiing the Uruguay World Cup squad, even though he was hardly getting a start for us while he had been playing week in week out in Argentina.
And let's not compare Veron to nesta.
Veron played a completely different role at Lazio than he did last season at United - that's why he hasn't fitted in yet.
Nesta is a central defender - and would still be one at United. No positional change to adapt to.
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Originally posted by Rory 7:
<strong> Leeds know we want him now and can publically play hardball with the fee to attempt to quell their own fans anger.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Unless Ferdinand has told Leeds he wants to go and United know this too. In which case United have the upper hand in that they can't be held to ransom. As DOL said, he's not gonna keep hold of an unhappy player.
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Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>

Unless Ferdinand has told Leeds he wants to go and United know this too. In which case United have the upper hand in that they can't be held to ransom. As DOL said, he's not gonna keep hold of an unhappy player.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Just a thought:

The Nike money kicks in this season (approx £20 million per year over the next 13 years)

UTD have had their most financially prosperous year to date (last 6 mths registered a £30 million profit, so they expect around £60 million profit for the full financial year)

Lazio owe £12 million to UTD for Stam from last season

Fergie has stated he wants to develop a Bruce/Pallister style long term partnership for the future.

UTD have expressed interest in Nesta and Ferdinand.

Lazio want Veron.

UTD HAVE to respond to the Arsenal challenge and need radical surgery at the back.

Is it not feasible that they are after both Nesta and Ferdinand? Veron as a swap with the Stam fee wavered and Ferdinand with the Nike money and the additional revenue from the sale of the likes of Yorke, Wallwork, Fortune etc?

That doesn't even eat into the £60 million profit. More could be made available for additional players such as Duff, and Striker. A heavy outlay this year means Utd will not need to invest as heavily for a good few seasons while knowing the money is safe from NIKE and their normal sources.

Fergie has also hinted that he will need to spend big to get the very best this season.

What do you think?
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Originally posted by veron004:
<strong>


Is it not feasible that they are after both Nesta and Ferdinand? Veron as a swap with the Stam fee wavered and Ferdinand with the Nike money and the additional revenue from the sale of the likes of Yorke, Wallwork, Fortune etc?

That doesn't even eat into the £60 million profit. More could be made available for additional players such as Duff, and Striker. A heavy outlay this year means Utd will not need to invest as heavily for a good few seasons while knowing the money is safe from NIKE and their normal sources.

Fergie has also hinted that he will need to spend big to get the very best this season.

What do you think?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Sounds perfect - get on the phone to the board, the PLC (no need to bother with SAF, he'd agree with you anyway)
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Rio is in the bag, otherwise Man Utd would not be making all this commotion (which has been professionally designed by the way), only to be turned down and embarassed later on - its done and dusted. Now we just have to convince Leeds the same, and this is what all the press is about - pressure.

Every sound that comes from Man Utd is for a reason. Either that or they have a new honesty policy.

I reckon that Nesta thing was a Fergie mind trick on Juve.

"We dont want that over priced Thuram anymore, we'll be going after Juve's number one target, Nesta"

Juve will then think shit we better get Man Utd out of the Nesta game plus sell Thuram to the only club that wants him before they go for someone else.
 
Originally posted by ShAoLiN_ChRoNiC:
<strong>Rio is in the bag, otherwise Man Utd would not be making all this commotion (which has been professionally designed by the way), only to be turned down and embarassed later on - its done and dusted. Now we just have to convince Leeds the same, and this is what all the press is about - pressure.

Every sound that comes from Man Utd is for a reason. Either that or they have a new honesty policy.

I reckon that Nesta thing was a Fergie mind trick on Juve.

"We dont want that over priced Thuram anymore, we'll be going after Juve's number one target, Nesta"

Juve will then think shit we better get Man Utd out of the Nesta game plus sell Thuram to the only club that wants him before they go for someone else.</strong><hr></blockquote>


How come you aint running a football club or atleast a small country by now ?
<img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />
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Originally posted by CremboMan:
<strong>


How come you aint running a football club or atleast a small country by now ?
<img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

I know Fergie is a master of psychological warfare, but I don't think that is is his true purpose. UTD's policy is not to spend big money on players over the age of 28. The Thuram deal ain't going to happen.

Fergie went to personally see Nesta play last season (the game in which Nesta had a mare, was at fault for three goals, substituted at half time and tearfully made a humiliating public apology to the Lazio fans). Fergie is serious about Nesta. And I think his comments about wanting to sign him were intended to let the player know that.

Lazio still owe UTD money and desperately want Veron back. It is still a strong possibility that both Rio and Nesta could come.
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Look at my address - I aint Alex, who could I be?

I would love it, LOVE IT if we get Nesta and Rio. ;)

As for Fergie getting Thuram, we want him for something like £17m, but Juve wont sell him for that much without some 'convincing'.

I hope they dont, I dont want him here.
 
Originally posted by Rory 7:
<strong>As for Edwards, I dunno, it is just really weird that he came out and said what he said. I mean surely if you go public with our interest in Ferdinand you run the risk of running his transfer fee up! Leeds know we want him now and can publically play hardball with the fee to attempt to quell their own fans anger. So maybe sneaky Edwards is trying to make life hard for Kenyon and SAF.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I know that Martin Edwards is despised by many United fans but he has served on the board for a long time (since the sixties I think). I know that he tried to sell out to Michael Knighton and Sky but I doubt if anyone with that length of service would delibrately try and undermine the club, regardless of animosity towards Kenyon and SAF.
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Rio Ferdinand is not 'in the bag' in the way you seem to think he has agreed with Man Utd to move but now Man Utd have to convince Leeds.

He may be a typical footballer but form the way the West Ham transfer went down and him being the capatin of Leeds he is very highly profiled and one things is always a constant...he is a man of his word. He did not leave West Ham until they accepted the bid and even then it took two extra weeks to get him to sign the Leeds papers as he was still in two minds to go but West Ham acceptingthe bid without consulting him swayed him to go.

Now he has stated publicly he wants to stay at Leeds and it is up to Leeds if he moves only if they want to sell him.

So, I don't believe he has agreed a move to Man Utd and I don't believe that as Leeds Captain he would blatantly lie to the press and the fans over it.
 
Its called being diplomatic - most players never come out and say - I want to leave my club and join this other club - players are often very diplomatic, and consider their current fans feelings, so on and so on.

Its simple really leeds have pretty much admitted they will sell - Man Utd have said they are interested - rio would want the move if it came about - verdict send for the megastore scarf please, we can even get King Cantona to come and present it to him, so leeds fans can sit and reminisce about to of their (ah ah hhhmmm) i mean our players!!!! ;)
 
Leeds have said he is not for sale. DOL has said he will advise the PLC board of his feelings that he doesn't want to sell. Rio has said he wants to stay and it's up to Leeds. So Leeds have virtually admitted in all this they want to sell then?
 
Originally posted by elmo:
<strong>Leeds have said he is not for sale. DOL has said he will advise the PLC board of his feelings that he doesn't want to sell. Rio has said he wants to stay and it's up to Leeds. So Leeds have virtually admitted in all this they want to sell then?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Like I said a hundred times before, I don't think we'll sign Ferdinand, but talks are very cheap. If Ferdinand asks for a move and goes it will cost him some money I believe and if Leeds sell him without him asking it they will lose a bit of money on that.

Ferdinand's agent, Pini Zehavi, would have told him exactly what to say as this stage. Running off with 'I want to go' is not smart at all. When O'Leary talked about people close to Ferdinand AND Ferguson, he meant Zehavi.

Not saying it's going to happen, but what's coming out doesn't mean much.
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Originally posted by ShAoLiN_ChRoNiC:
<strong>Rio is in the bag, otherwise Man Utd would not be making all this commotion (which has been professionally designed by the way), only to be turned down and embarassed later on - its done and dusted. Now we just have to convince Leeds the same, and this is what all the press is about - pressure.

Every sound that comes from Man Utd is for a reason. Either that or they have a new honesty policy.

I reckon that Nesta thing was a Fergie mind trick on Juve.

"We dont want that over priced Thuram anymore, we'll be going after Juve's number one target, Nesta"

Juve will then think shit we better get Man Utd out of the Nesta game plus sell Thuram to the only club that wants him before they go for someone else.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree with you on this. Fergie has no reason to publicly declare it if he really want Nesta. Nesta is a smokescreen and now we are trying to apply public pressure on Leeds.
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Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>

I agree with you on this. Fergie has no reason to publicly declare it if he really want Nesta. Nesta is a smokescreen and now we are trying to apply public pressure on Leeds.</strong><hr></blockquote>

How do you know which is the smokescreen? I've been hearing about them for years but haven't really seen one, I must say. ;)
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Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>

I agree with you on this. Fergie has no reason to publicly declare it if he really want Nesta. Nesta is a smokescreen and now we are trying to apply public pressure on Leeds.</strong><hr></blockquote>

So when Fergie says he'd like to have Nesta its a smokescreen,
But when Edwards say Rio would be a great buy he is trying to pressure leeds?
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I can't believe Martin Edwards has resurfaced to stick his nose into this. I wish he'd shut up and let Kenyon and Fergie do the talking. Can't help but think Edwards does more harm than good when he opens his mouth.
I notice with interest that Kenyon didn't waste much time in jumping in to reassert his authority less than 24 hours after Edwards had been shouting his mouth off...
 
Not saying it's going to happen, but what's coming out doesn't mean much. <hr></blockquote>

Not true. Rio had the same agent when he moved from West Ham and he was very decent to West Ham when leaving. He didn't ask for a transfer.

Rio has said he doesn't want to leave Leeds and he is a man of his word. So it does actually matter what he is saying. Whether Leeds go above him and sell is another story but I don't think it will happen.
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Originally posted by elmo:
<strong>

Not true. Rio had the same agent when he moved from West Ham and he was very decent to West Ham when leaving. He didn't ask for a transfer.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm sure it is the same guy, Pini Zehavi. He even brought him to Israel last summer. THere wasn't any problem with West Ham, was there? The hammers were willing to sell as long as the money was good and Rio at that stage wasn't going to throw tables around if the transfer was blocked.

Like I said, I don't know what's really going on, but the words coming out of people mouths don't prove a whole lot. Only time will. That Zehavi is one tricky fellow
;)
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Originally posted by the reporter:
<strong>

I doubt that O'Leary is a willing participant - he's likely just buying into it like everyone else.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Most people here believe that the club wants to put up some smokescreen for the fans/press. In fact what they want is for the selling club or moving player to thin, that he could miss out on his chance for the move.

So if United want Ferdinand, they would like Leeds/Rio to think that United might just buy Nesta and forget about the 30m or great contract which is on offer. The same applies to Nesta.

As for O'Leary getting caught up in this; very unlikely.
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Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>

Like I said, I don't know what's really going on, but the words coming out of people mouths don't prove a whole lot. Only time will. That Zehavi is one tricky fellow
;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

So you think Kenyon and everyone else at Man Utd has somehow let slip that they've made enquiries about Rio and how Rio is going to improve our squad etc? How we're interested etc?

Man Utd dont make those sounds as you should know. They keep their transfers secret until they are close or until they feel the time is right to spill beans.

As a company, Man Utd do not want to look bad by having players turn them down. Whats coming out does not tell us much. But what it should tell you is our club's position in the whole affair and from the sounds of it, I have never seen our club be so open (open translates as confidant) about a transfer. This is one of worst kept secrets, a failure to land Rio now would be a big failure. This is no tentative enquiry like we've done with Nesta/Thuram - this is a full blown campaign. Man Utd dont do goose chases. Man Utd dont get turned down.

I suppose you thought it was all bullshit when we approached Thuram too. Its pretty much fact that we tried it on for Thuram but he was too expensive, and now we've turned to Rio. Not to say that we aren't tracking Nesta's situation. Although I dont believe Fergie is as serious about Nesta as he is about Rio/Thuram.

Have to read between the lines sometimes. Thats why I believe Nesta was more of a threat to Juve and a blast towards their Thuram asking price than a signal of intent.

From what you say its as if you dont believe a word you read, yet the media is our primary source of info.
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