Remake Draft R16 | Gio vs EAP

[Joga Bonito]

Voters are asked to consider the XIs featured as remakes of classic teams, and to consider to what extent the manager has succeeded in re-creating both the individual roles and the overall functionality of the original. THIS IS NOT A FANTASY MATCH BETWEEN TWO SIDES, but rather a comparison of remakes.

Please feel free to tag the managers if you require more information about their set-ups/players etc.

Team Gio:
​

Philosophy/Ideology of Tactical Set-Up

No generation was as golden as Hungary's Golden Team that dominated international football in the early 1950s. The Magical Magyars were a step ahead of their peers: shaking off the shackles of the WM formation to unleash a 3-2-1-4 / 4-2-4 hybrid that bamboozled the world. At the heart of Gusztav Sebes' system was the deep-lying centre-forward, initially developed by MTK coach Martin Bukovi, whose positioning, ability to dictate play and overload in and beyond the hole was central to the Magyars' sustained success.

Style - Fluid, ball dominating and on the front foot
Defense - High line organised by a centre-half-cum-sweeper who builds play from deep. Combination of man and zonal marking as the situation dictates. Look to win the ball back early to carry on attacking.
Midfield - Classy and imposing: look to dominate and circulate the ball with superior technique. Uses Lahm as an overload down the right.
Attack - Fluid: intelligent through the middle and swashbuckling on the flanks

Player Roles

Claudio Bravo - good on the ball and shines with a high line. Grosics: "There was space behind our defence and I had to act as a kind of extra sweeper outside of my area".
Thiago Silva - Like Lorant, Silva was "strong and skillful" (Sebes), expansive on the ball, and has shone brightly playing a high line
Philipp Lahm - all-round full-back
Kahka Kaladze - experienced as a central-defender-cum-left-back
Daniele De Rossi - defensive-left-central presence to anchor midfield, dropping into defence when required.
Marco Verratti - ball-playing central midfielder who can also mix it.
Francesco Totti - the modern game's first false nine plays the role of the withdrawn centre-forward
Raul - left-footed support striker, expert finisher, dovetailing off a more physical line-leader
Miroslav Klose - aerially powerful centre-forward
Arjen Robben - free-roaming, heavy goalscoring, left-footed winger
Antonio Valencia - orthodox, disciplined, touchline-hugging outside right

Specific Tactical Manoeuvres

• Totti is the heartbeat: he drops into the hole between defence and midfield, sprays passes and supports the attack. Grosics: "Whoever was in this deep-lying position had to co-ordinate the whole team's strategy from behind the attack." Higedkuti: "If I went forward, Puskas dropped back".
• De Rossi can drop to make a more conventional back four as shown by his central defensive performances in Euro 2012 in particular. Szepesi: "Part of Sebes genius was for Zakarias to drop back to liberate the rest of the midfield - Hidegkuti in particular - to attack."
• Midfield pivots on the De Rossi/Verratti axis with Verratti freed up to support the attack in possession.
• In possession Lahm opens up onto the right flank. Hidegkuti: "Our right-back Buzansky advanced down the wing - nobody was expecting a right-back overlapping his winger in those days, so you always had someone free to pass to."
• As in the 1953 'match of the century' against England, Robben and Valencia play slightly deeper to work the flank. Sebes: "I wanted the wingers to drop back when necessary to assist the defence"
• Valencia hugs the touchline to stretch the defence and provide crosses for Klose to attack.
  
• Robben has the freedom to roam across the line and his team-mates will adapt to fill the space he has vacated. Puskas: "If Czibor wandered to the right wing, Budai would drop deeper. If Czibor decided to spend most of the game on the right wing, I would pull to the left to compensate".

 

[Joga Bonito]

Hungary 1953/Sebes (3-2-1-4)........................................................./..........................Gio's Modern Remake

 

[Joga Bonito]

Team EAP:​

Cryuff "Dream Team" - Barcelona 1992

Formation: Loose 3-4-3 Diamond

In Cruyff's way of thinking, with teams playing 2 striker formations having 4 defenders is not optimal use of resources. He also notes that the extra defender takes away the possibility of gaining an advantage in midfield.

The result...Left Back (Juan Carlos) moves into a Left DM role making it a 3-4-3. When in possession, he moves infield to add to the midfield battle. When out of possession, he drops in coverage to opposition winger. He links efficiently with the False 9 (Michael Laudrup) who drops back to Left AM role...giving them a 5 vs 4 advantage in the midfield.


Philosophy/Ideology of tactical set-up:

Spoiler: Tactics Straight From Cruyff

&

And a quick reference gif for the benefit of TL;DW's

The 3 fundamentals of Dream Team:

1. Team Play: More focus on being a team player than any individual match winning talent, especially the AM (Bakero role) who specifically should not be a master dribbling individualistic player.
2. Possession: The team is built to retain possession and press hard to regain when opponent has the ball. Cruyff places high emphasis on keeping control of the ball.

"When you have the ball, opponent cannot score" "When you don't lose the ball in the buildup, there is no chance for a counter attack"

1. First Touch Attacking Football: The game is designed for dominance in the midfield. Touch and Pass. Bakero was tasked with playing with his back to the goal. Receive passes from the defence, pass it to a oncoming defender so there's no need to turn, move forward. Rinse and repeat. The team is defined by it's rhythm and free flowing game.

Modern Remake - Players & Tactical Fit:

R16 Upgrades:

#9 Cesc Fabregas <> Michael Laudrup: (Upgrade to Jorge Validvia)
+ The closest modern fit to Laudrup. Laudrup is a technically better player, but Fabregas is the closest modern player that could do do justice to his role in dream team. Fabregas has played CM, AM and False 9 successfully for Barca and Spain. Here he starts off as False 9 and would drop back to Left AM role with Neymar (Stoichkov role) drifting to the middle.
#11 Neymar <> Hristo Stoichkov: (Upgrade to Anthony Martial)
+ An comfortable upgrade on Martial. I'd agree that he's not a replica of Stoichkov and does not have the golden left foot and physical strength, but despite those comes as close as possible to the way the game is played. He has the added advantage of being a left IF and having played with a modern False 9 in a role quite similar to the above.
Other Player Comparisons:

#5 Daley Blind <> Juan Carlos:
+ Comfortable as Left Back, Centre Back and has operated Defensive Midfield/Left Wing. Has the ball playing abilities to actively support the midfield.

#2 Wes Brown <> Munoz:
+ Comfortable as Right Back and Centre Back. Ability to lend decent support to the attack.

#3 Gerard Pique <> Koeman:
+ Has played as sweeper and is nicknamed "Piquenbauer" by the fans! Familiarity playing in a similar setup in current Barca side. Good ball playing skills and ability to step up and/or sweep behind.

#4 Xabi Alonso <> Pep Guardiola:
+ One of the best modern DLP's. Comfortable in possession based games. Intelligent and tactical enough to run the game. Excellent in long and short passing.

#10 Jan Vertonghen <> Albert Ferrer:
+ Comfortable as Left Back and Centre Back.

#8 Ruben Baraja <> Eusebio Sacristan:
+ An upgrade to Eusebio imo. Complete CM with good passing and goal scoring ability. Operated with DLP (Albelda) and comfortable in playing this role.

#6 Deco <> Joe Mari Bakero:
+ An upgrade to Bakero imo. Versatile as AM/CM. Unselfish team Player, good ability to pick a pass, play one touch game and score himself.

#7 Pedro <> Salinas:
+ Was brilliant in a similar role for Barcelona. Another unselfish player who shines in big games. Fast disciplined and puts team agenda over personal needs.


Play design - Defence:

Defensive Line: High. Attack oriented team.

Marking: The defence acts in compact units closing down spaces. 2 of the back 3 may step up to make it a one vs one battle against the 2 opposition strikers with the 3rd defender sweeping behind.

Off the ball: Aggressive closing down with defenders + Alonso forming compact defensive unit.

On the ball: Quick passing to Alonso who usually is a bit high up on the pitch to dictate the play thereafter.

Common Queries:

1) Do the side backs fit the remake?

- Nando Munoz was a CB who was slotted as a RCB. He was never a attacking fullback. Wes Brown is an clear upgrade here as he is at core a CB who was excellent as a RB too.
- Ferrer was a RB who was shoehorned into being a LCB. Vertonghen is a clear upgrade here too, as he's a CB who has successfully operated as a LB.
Rather than shoehorning a player, we actually have players who are comfortable in those role and can probably contribute better than the original players without compromising the team game style.

2) Neymar and Stoichkov are different types of players, right?

Yes, As I mention above they are different types of players. Neymar neither is physically as strong as Stoichkov not has a golden left foot....but still is the best left IF for the generation. He brings the 'oomph' factor and overt threat back into the team (which was lacking with Martial considering his age/experience). He has the added advantage of playing in one of the rare current False 9 side which arguably is the closest (frontline) to the possession game of the original Dream Team. Difference in physical qualities notwithstanding (Henry apaprt) Neymar is closest replica fit to the Left IF role imo.

3) Why is Fabregas chosen for Laudrup role over other better false 9's (Zlatan etc)?

Laudrup was a AM, CM who was played as a fale 9, quite different from the withdrawn striker type that personifies Zlatan. Messi is versatile enough to play any role, but unfortunately he's blocked here...but even if he was not Fabregas will be a better fit here imo. Laudrup spent a great part of his playing time as Left Am allowing Stoichkov to drift in the middle, while he adds to the midfield numbers and creates opportunities. Fabregas is a better fit as Left AM with a good workrate than Messi/Zlatan and the like. Similar to Laudrup he can drop as CM, move centrally to cover for a surging ahead Bakero or drift left to accommodate Neymar. Totti can be a shout, but personally I'm sure Fabregas is the best modern player to play this role!

 

[Joga Bonito]

Barcelona 1992/Cruyff (3-4-3)................................../..........................EAP's Modern Remake

 

[Joga Bonito]

Good luck gents

@Gio @Edgar Allan Pillow

 

[Gol123]

Where is the Romario replacement?

Also, Fabregas always struggled as a false 9.

 

[Norris]

I'm not a regular by any means, but do lurk around. Why is Pique's role not mirroring Koeman's in the image ?

 

[Balu]

Where is the Romario replacement?

Romario only joined Barca in the summer of 1993. Cruyff's Barca side won 3 league titles in a row and the European Cup in 1992 before he became a part of the team. As brilliant as Romario was in 93/94, it wasn't the peak season of the dream team and the foreigner rule caused problems because Koeman, Laudrup, Stoichkov and Romario could never be on the pitch together. Out of the 4, Romario clearly was the by far least influential player during Cruyff's time as Barca's manager. That's why we gave EAP the task to recreate the European Cup winning side from 1992.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Where is the Romario replacement?

Also, Fabregas always struggled as a false 9.

Blueprint to remake was '92 Finals. No Romario.

Fabregas is the closest to M Laudrup role in modern times. We have some withdrawn striker (a la Zlatan, Messi) but very few advanced CM's. He did well for Spain in that role, imo.

I'm not a regular by any means, but do lurk around. Why is Pique's role not mirroring Koeman's in the image ?

The arrows? It's just for show. With or without arrows, Pique will replicate Koeman's role. Nicknamed "Pickenbauer" for some time, he can play the sweeper role to perfection. Sweeper pool is not really that big in these times.

 

[Gol123]

Romario only joined Barca in the summer of 1993. Cruyff's Barca side won 3 league titles in a row and the European Cup in 1992 before he became a part of the team. As brilliant as Romario was in 93/94, it wasn't the peak season of the dream team and the foreigner rule caused problems because Koeman, Laudrup, Stoichkov and Romario could never be on the pitch together. Out of the 4, Romario clearly was the by far least influential player during Cruyff's time as Barca's manager. That's why we gave EAP the task to recreate the European Cup winning side from 1992.

Blueprint to remake was '92 Finals. No Romario.

Fabregas is the closest to M Laudrup role in modern times. We have some withdrawn striker (a la Zlatan, Messi) but very few advanced CM's. He did well for Spain in that role, imo.



The arrows? It's just for show. With or without arrows, Pique will replicate Koeman's role. Nicknamed "Pickenbauer" for some time, he can play the sweeper role to perfection. Sweeper pool is not really that big in these times.

That's sucks.

Fabregas is competent there but not at the level of the competition. Spain are always blunt in attack with him starting up top and won games by suffocating the game with possession.

 

[Norris]

The arrows? It's just for show. With or without arrows, Pique will replicate Koeman's role. Nicknamed "Pickenbauer" for some time, he can play the sweeper role to perfection. Sweeper pool is not really that big in these times.

Yes, I read the write-up, cracking team really, except for Fabregas maybe.

 

[Balu]

Fabregas is competent there but not at the level of the competition. Spain are always blunt in attack with him starting up top and won games by suffocating the game with possession.

That's not just Fabregas' fault though (of course he isn't at Laudrup's level). Neymar adds a significant goalscoring threat in EAP's team that Spain simply didn't have since Villa's injury/decline. Also Spain had their big moment with Fabregas as a false 9. In fact, Spain's 4-0 final win in 2012 against Italy has been their most impressive game in tournaments against top teams. The majority of their results were 1-0s and 0-0s in 2008, 2010 and 2012 when they faced one of the bigger nations.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I'm not really convinced on the Thiago Silva upgrade.

Sebes's vision and the Magyars played (in defence) was very similar to Catenaccio system made popular by Grande Inter. Both Buzansky and Lantos were given permission to push forward with Lorant dropping deeper as a pure "sweeper". Zagorakis was tasked to play defensively to accommodate for Bozsik's instructions to move up and support Hidegkuti. It actually made the defence closely resembling a 1-3 (a la Grande Inter).

Lantos...Zagorakis...Buzansky...
..............Lorant.....................

Was very much how they operated.

Spoiler: Sweeper vs Libero

Here, I think we must acknowledge the difference between the sweeper and libero which have been constantly swapped in common use. The revolutionary "Verrou" system brought about by an inspired Karl Rappan's makes for the origin of Sweeper, called "Verouller" He is a defender who operated between the defensive line and goalkeeper who does not have any marking duties and operates freely between the lines. This sweeping up allowed the other defenders to push forward and contribute to midfield. Picchi was a famous exponent of this.

Then came a German maestro who revolutionized that role and made it a proper "Libero", a defender who operates behind the defensive line when defending and in front when attacking with freedom to move far ahead of the D-line during attack. A similar free role...but very different in responsibilities.

The Magyars, they operated more closer to Catenaccio and Lorant was more a sweeper than a libero. Thiago Silva is quite well rounded defender, but as a ball playing Centre Back he's closer to a libero than a sweeper. I do not think he's a good fit in this system.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Yes, I read the write-up, cracking team really, except for Fabregas maybe.

Trouble is there is no one else I can think of who can play that role better. Laudrup was a AM/CM hybrid who played in a False 9 role. How many modern players fit that criteria?

The drop in quality cannot be helped, but factors like Fabregas has similar playing style to Laudrup, having played False 9 in a possession based system adds credibility to him in that role imo.

 

[Norris]

Trouble is there is no one else I can think of who can play that role better. Laudrup was a AM/CM hybrid who played in a False 9 role. How many modern players fit that criteria?

The drop in quality cannot be helped, but factors like Fabregas has similar playing style to Laudrup, having played False 9 in a possession based system adds credibility to him in that role imo.

Was there a rule that False 9 role had to be a midfielder ? If not, I'd have thought Muller would be a good/better fit.

 

[harms]

Was there a rule that False 9 role had to be a midfielder ? If not, I'd have thought Muller would be a good/better fit.

It's hard to pick a player less similar to Laudrup than Müller

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Was there a rule that False 9 role had to be a midfielder ? If not, I'd have thought Muller would be a good/better fit.

This draft is on replicating a classic team with modern players. I have Cruyff's Barcelona Dream Team (1992 CL Finals version) to replicate here.

In the original team that role in played by Laudrup, so the modern player to replicate him should be similar so that the overall dynamics do not change during the re-make. So yeah, for this draft I needed a Midfielder to play the False 9.

 

[Norris]

It's hard to pick a player less similar to Laudrup than Müller

Of course, but there are a couple of similarities as well, notably their playmaking abilities and their desire to put the team ahead of themselves. I thought he would have been a better fit than Fabregas.

 

[Norris]

This draft is on replicating a classic team with modern players. I have Cruyff's Barcelona Dream Team (1992 CL Finals version) to replicate here.

In the original team that role in played by Laudrup, so the modern player to replicate him should be similar so that the overall dynamics do not change during the re-make. So yeah, for this draft I needed a Midfielder to play the False 9.

Ah Ok, then yeah, there's not many to really choose from.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Ah Ok, then yeah, there's not many to really choose from.

So, voting for me?

 

[Gio]

I'm not really convinced on the Thiago Silva upgrade.

Sebes's vision and the Magyars played (in defence) was very similar to Catenaccio system made popular by Grande Inter. Both Buzansky and Lantos were given permission to push forward with Lorant dropping deeper as a pure "sweeper". Zagorakis was tasked to play defensively to accommodate for Bozsik's instructions to move up and support Hidegkuti. It actually made the defence closely resembling a 1-3 (a la Grande Inter).

Lantos...Zagorakis...Buzansky...
..............Lorant.....................

Was very much how they operated.

Spoiler: Sweeper vs Libero

Here, I think we must acknowledge the difference between the sweeper and libero which have been constantly swapped in common use. The revolutionary "Verrou" system brought about by an inspired Karl Rappan's makes for the origin of Sweeper, called "Verouller" He is a defender who operated between the defensive line and goalkeeper who does not have any marking duties and operates freely between the lines. This sweeping up allowed the other defenders to push forward and contribute to midfield. Picchi was a famous exponent of this.

Then came a German maestro who revolutionized that role and made it a proper "Libero", a defender who operates behind the defensive line when defending and in front when attacking with freedom to move far ahead of the D-line during attack. A similar free role...but very different in responsibilities.

The Magyars, they operated more closer to Catenaccio and Lorant was more a sweeper than a libero. Thiago Silva is quite well rounded defender, but as a ball playing Centre Back he's closer to a libero than a sweeper. I do not think he's a good fit in this system.

I have to disagree. The point is Lorant was both sweeper and centre-back: he was not a sweeper with a centre-half in front of him. Zagorakis played deep, but not typically deep enough to create a typical centre-back/sweeper partnership in the middle of defence. As Wilson has said, Zagorakis didn't really play deep enough to pick up opposition attackers, but nevertheless provided solid zonal support. It was certainly not the 1960-1990s definition of a sweeper, an often waifish figure expertly reading the game and mopping up through balls. He had to do some of that of course, but he also had to compete for the first ball. Sebes was desperate for a physically imposing and ball playing leader in the middle and he got Lobant into the national squad because he fitted that "strong and skillful" mould.

Thiago Silva is a fine fit in that respect, very similar to Helguera in many ways, but a clear upgrade. And that's important because when you have such an attacking set-up, your defence can be left isolated, and you need someone very capable to hold it all together.

 

[Norris]

So, voting for me?

Well, I genuinely do like your team, but have too little knowledge of Gio's Hungarian remake to judge his. So it's best I refrain from voting and just read the great write-ups and discussion

 

[Gio]

Trouble is there is no one else I can think of who can play that role better. Laudrup was a AM/CM hybrid who played in a False 9 role. How many modern players fit that criteria?

The drop in quality cannot be helped, but factors like Fabregas has similar playing style to Laudrup, having played False 9 in a possession based system adds credibility to him in that role imo.

Laudrup wasn't a CM hybrid in any shape or form. If you're looking at a hybrid, he was more an AM/free-roaming support striker than anything else.

Fabregas is a decent stab at him. The negatives are that he doesn't have Michael's gorgeous feet, most of his mobility or any credibility roaming into wide areas and skipping around defenders. Big boots to fill of course, but certainly a couple of cleaner alternatives in the pool.

 

[Siorac]

Spoiler

I'm not really convinced on the Thiago Silva upgrade.

Sebes's vision and the Magyars played (in defence) was very similar to Catenaccio system made popular by Grande Inter. Both Buzansky and Lantos were given permission to push forward with Lorant dropping deeper as a pure "sweeper". Zagorakis was tasked to play defensively to accommodate for Bozsik's instructions to move up and support Hidegkuti. It actually made the defence closely resembling a 1-3 (a la Grande Inter).

Lantos...Zagorakis...Buzansky...
..............Lorant.....................

Was very much how they operated.

Spoiler: Sweeper vs Libero

Here, I think we must acknowledge the difference between the sweeper and libero which have been constantly swapped in common use. The revolutionary "Verrou" system brought about by an inspired Karl Rappan's makes for the origin of Sweeper, called "Verouller" He is a defender who operated between the defensive line and goalkeeper who does not have any marking duties and operates freely between the lines. This sweeping up allowed the other defenders to push forward and contribute to midfield. Picchi was a famous exponent of this.

Then came a German maestro who revolutionized that role and made it a proper "Libero", a defender who operates behind the defensive line when defending and in front when attacking with freedom to move far ahead of the D-line during attack. A similar free role...but very different in responsibilities.

The Magyars, they operated more closer to Catenaccio and Lorant was more a sweeper than a libero. Thiago Silva is quite well rounded defender, but as a ball playing Centre Back he's closer to a libero than a sweeper. I do not think he's a good fit in this system.

I have to disagree. The point is Lorant was both sweeper and centre-back: he was not a sweeper with a centre-half in front of him. Zagorakis played deep, but not typically deep enough to create a typical centre-back/sweeper partnership in the middle of defence. As Wilson has said, Zagorakis didn't really play deep enough to pick up opposition attackers, but nevertheless provided solid zonal support. It was certainly not the 1960-1990s definition of a sweeper, an often waifish figure expertly reading the game and mopping up through balls. He had to do some of that of course, but he also had to compete for the first ball. Sebes was desperate for a physically imposing and ball playing leader in the middle and he got Lobant into the national squad because he fitted that "strong and skillful" mould.

Thiago Silva is a fine fit in that respect, very similar to Helguera in many ways, but a clear upgrade. And that's important because when you have such an attacking set-up, your defence can be left isolated, and you need someone very capable to hold it all together.

This is all well and good but Gio and EAP REALLY confused me by bringing Zagorakis into the discussion. I kept trying to figure out what one of the key players of Greece 2004 has to do with anything...

Just call him 'Joe' if Zakariás is hard to remember :P

 

[Gio]

The Magyars, they operated more closer to Catenaccio and Lorant was more a sweeper than a libero. Thiago Silva is quite well rounded defender, but as a ball playing Centre Back he's closer to a libero than a sweeper. I do not think he's a good fit in this system.

They're one of the most attacking teams of all time, that's probably the first time they've been compared to Catenaccio. I get how their formation evolved into Brazil's 4-2-4 and then the back four became standard. But there's a million miles between how deep and compact Inter played versus the high and open spaces that Hungary were all about.

 

[Gio]

Anyway I think Pedro is a poor Samaras impersonation.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Big boots to fill of course, but certainly a couple of cleaner alternatives in the pool.

Who do you have on your mind, if you don't mind me asking?

Anyway I think Pedro is a poor Samaras impersonation.

 

[Gio]

Who do you have on your mind, if you don't mind me asking?

Nobody's perfect. But I'd say Totti and Iniesta would be the best fits. Totti because of his touch, vision, passing, finishing and experience of doing the same thing. Iniesta because of his touch, passing, dribbling, selflessness and excellence in the inside-left channel in particular. He lacks the false 9 experience, but his elegance and style resemble the great man. Even Ronaldinho wouldn't be a bad shout, because again his fantastic dribbling, but equally his sometimes under-rated ability to split a defence open with a pass. More of an individual than Laudrup, but a few similar and important qualities.

Fabregas is a decent effort though. He certainly brings some of the playmaking in there and has the positional experience with Spain and Barcelona, albeit neither quite smelled right. It clicked in the 2012 final of course, but I wouldn't say that was typical of his time in that role.

 

[Tuppet]

I'd add Lavezzi and David Silva as two others who have false 9 experience and are probably closer to Laudrup with their dribbling, mobility, playmaking and ability to cut to the left side. Fabregas to me feels a touch more direct and much less silky on the ball than Laudrup, esp in Dribbling. I rate Laudrup as one of the best dribbler of all time, his ability to weave his way through defense was amazing.

On Gio's team, I was wondering has Robben ever played on left wing ?

 

[Ecstatic]

Fabregas - Euro 2012 Final

In tactical terms, Fabregas - product of La Masia - can do the job.

Sure, Fabregas aesthetically differs from Laudrup but who is the modern equivalent of Laudrup?

 

[Ecstatic]

I'd add Lavezzi and David Silva as two others who have false 9 experience and are probably closer to Laudrup with their dribbling, mobility, playmaking and ability to cut to the left side. Fabregas to me feels a touch more direct and much less silky on the ball than Laudrup, esp in Dribbling. I rate Laudrup as one of the best dribbler of all time, his ability to weave his way through defense was amazing.

On Gio's team, I was wondering has Robben ever played on left wing ?

IMHO, Lavezzi is not a good dribbler and his read of the game is limited - not to mention his technical skills - he's rather a punchy forward with a good stamina.

He has never played as a false 9 with PSG. Napoli used to play with Cavani as a CF.

David Silva? I agree with you: he can do the job.

 

[Tuppet]

IMHO, Lavezzi is not a good dribbler and his read of the game is limited - not to mention his technical skills - he's rather a punchy forward with a good stamina.

He has never played as a false 9 with PSG. Napoli used to play with Cavani as a CF.

David Silva? I agree with you: he can do the job.

Lavezzi is probably the weakest option out of all, but I am sure I remember him playing as false 9 role for Napoli under Mazzarri esp when Cavani was out. May be my memory is playing tricks but I remembered him being a good dribbler, at that time I really wanted United to buy him and Pastore. You obviously have watched him more at PSG and so I'll take your word for it. Thinking about it he is not better than Fabregas for this role anyway.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

But I'd say Totti and Iniesta would be the best fits. Totti because of his touch, vision, passing, finishing and experience of doing the same thing. Iniesta because of his touch, passing, dribbling, selflessness and excellence in the inside-left channel in particular. He lacks the false 9 experience, but his elegance and style resemble the great man.

As you say it's a balance. From the videos I watch I'd say Laudrup usually operates in positions deeper than Totti, but considering Totti's versatility and intelligence he can be in the consideration too. Not really keen on Iniesta. I'd prefer to have someone who has done the role before. I'd still say Fabregas has the right balance between player qualities, style and experience. Ronaldinho would be a bad fit as Cruyff mentions specifically that he does not want individualistic dribblers.

Totti was never available to me for picking, so it's a moot point.

The role Laudrup played was more like part of a midfield 3 with Juan Carlos drifting out wide (a la traditional full back). The interplay between these two pretty much ran that flank. I do not see Silva excelling in that far less Lavezzi and the like.

 

[Ecstatic]

@Tuppet

We agree than Fabregas is a better option than Lavezzi.

Lavezzi was certainly stronger with Napoli and I'll take your word for it

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

In terms of actual playing style...this is more like how they functioned when in possession...Laudrup's coverage in the left midfield was critical to the team...as it allowed Stoichkov freedom to cut in and the fluent interplay between Laudrup and Juan Carlos make that flank tick.

Iniesta is a good shout (but Fabregas experience as False 9 weighs better), but I'm sceptical of Silva and Ronaldinho in that role.

 

[Ecstatic]

I would like to know more about Buzánszky and Lantos if possible.

 

[Enigma_87]

Lahm on for Buzansky is a bit odd decision for me. I don't think they are much alike at all. Buzansky also supported the attack a lot with darting runs, I don't think Lahm is that of a player at all. I wouldn't put Silva in for that CB position as well, I feel Gio has gone a bit backwards with the reinforcements.

Edgar I fell has done excellently with Neymar. Although a lot different to Stoichkov he's a great fit for the role and position. Not yet convinced on Cesc tho...

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I have to disagree. The point is Lorant was both sweeper and centre-back: he was not a sweeper with a centre-half in front of him. Zagorakis played deep, but not typically deep enough to create a typical centre-back/sweeper partnership in the middle of defence. As Wilson has said, Zagorakis didn't really play deep enough to pick up opposition attackers, but nevertheless provided solid zonal support. It was certainly not the 1960-1990s definition of a sweeper, an often waifish figure expertly reading the game and mopping up through balls. He had to do some of that of course, but he also had to compete for the first ball. Sebes was desperate for a physically imposing and ball playing leader in the middle and he got Lobant into the national squad because he fitted that "strong and skillful" mould.

Thiago Silva is a fine fit in that respect, very similar to Helguera in many ways, but a clear upgrade. And that's important because when you have such an attacking set-up, your defence can be left isolated, and you need someone very capable to hold it all together.

I'm not sure the necessity to have a CB in front of a sweeper?

With Magyars it was a very attacking set up with Lorant not having much marking duties iirc. Iirc he regularly operated behind the Lantos and Buzansky in cover. Silva is a free role defender who usually moves up in front of the defence. Putting him in a sweeper role behind will not be that effective imo.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Lahm on for Buzansky is a bit odd decision for me. I don't think they are much alike at all. Buzansky also supported the attack a lot with darting runs, I don't think Lahm is that of a player at all. I wouldn't put Silva in for that CB position as well, I feel Gio has gone a bit backwards with the reinforcements.

Precisely my thoughts. I haven't gotten around to Lahm (bloody meetings at work) but it certainly is an odd fit considering Boateng was available who I consider a better fit for that role. It was a old style fullback role or more like an attacking side back. I personally do not think Lahm is a good enough centre back to fit in a side back role.

 

[Gio]

Silva's a good shout.

I'd add Lavezzi and David Silva as two others who have false 9 experience and are probably closer to Laudrup with their dribbling, mobility, playmaking and ability to cut to the left side. Fabregas to me feels a touch more direct and much less silky on the ball than Laudrup, esp in Dribbling. I rate Laudrup as one of the best dribbler of all time, his ability to weave his way through defense was amazing.

On Gio's team, I was wondering has Robben ever played on left wing ?

Robben played there a lot during the first half of his career.

With Czibor though, his positioning was always quite notional - a starting point - but he'd end up roaming across the front line. See how for example he set up Puskas's legendary goal against England from the right-hand side.

If Czibor wandered to the right wing, Budai would drop deeper. If Czibor decided to spend most of the game on the right wing, I would pull to the left to compensate.

The important tactical point was that they were able to adapt to that individuality to ensure the park was covered. In terms of the fit, him and Robben are fairly similar: both left-footed, goalscoring wingers, pacy, direct, able to hit the bye-line. Both amongst the best players of their generation.