Remake Draft R16 | Gio vs DavidG

[Joga Bonito]

Voters are asked to consider the XIs featured as remakes of classic teams, and to consider to what extent the manager has succeeded in re-creating both the individual roles and the overall functionality of the original. THIS IS NOT A FANTASY MATCH BETWEEN TWO SIDES, but rather a comparison of remakes.

Please feel free to tag the managers if you require more information about their set-ups/players etc.

Team Gio:
​

Philosophy/Ideology of Tactical Set-Up

No generation was as golden as Hungary's Golden Team that dominated international football in the early 1950s. The Magical Magyars were a step ahead of their peers: shaking off the shackles of the WM formation to unleash a 3-2-1-4 / 4-2-4 hybrid that bamboozled the world. At the heart of Gusztav Sebes' system was the deep-lying centre-forward, initially developed by MTK coach Martin Bukovi, whose positioning, ability to dictate play and overload in and beyond the hole was central to the Magyars' sustained success.

Style - Fluid, ball dominating and on the front foot
Defense - High line organised by a centre-half-cum-sweeper who builds play from deep. Combination of man and zonal marking as the situation dictates. Look to win the ball back early to carry on attacking.
Midfield - Classy and imposing: look to dominate and circulate the ball with superior technique. Uses Lahm as an overload down the right.
Attack - Fluid: intelligent through the middle and swashbuckling on the flanks

Player Roles

Claudio Bravo - good on the ball and shines with a high line. Grosics: "There was space behind our defence and I had to act as a kind of extra sweeper outside of my area".
Alessandro Nesta - immaculate all-round defender
Philipp Lahm - all-round full-back, supports attack in possession
Kahka Kaladze - experienced as a central-defender-cum-left-back
Daniele De Rossi - defensive-left-central presence to anchor midfield, dropping into defence when required.
Marco Verratti - ball-playing central midfielder who can also mix it.
Francesco Totti - the modern game's first false nine plays the role of the withdrawn centre-forward
Raul - left-footed support striker, expert finisher, dovetailing off a more physical line-leader
Miroslav Klose - aerially powerful centre-forward
Arjen Robben - free-roaming, heavy goalscoring, left-footed winger
Joaquin - touchline-hugging, full-back-ripping, dribble-and-cross merchant

Specific Tactical Manoeuvres

• Totti is the heartbeat: he drops into the hole between defence and midfield, sprays passes and supports the attack. Grosics: "Whoever was in this deep-lying position had to co-ordinate the whole team's strategy from behind the attack." Hidegkuti: "If I went forward, Puskas dropped back".
• De Rossi can drop to make a more conventional back four as shown by his central defensive performances in Euro 2012 in particular. Szepesi: "Part of Sebes genius was for Zakarias to drop back to liberate the rest of the midfield - Hidegkuti in particular - to attack."
• Midfield pivots on the De Rossi/Verratti axis with Verratti freed up to support the attack in possession.
• In possession Lahm opens up onto the right flank. Hidegkuti: "Our right-back Buzansky advanced down the wing - nobody was expecting a right-back overlapping his winger in those days, so you always had someone free to pass to."
• As in the 1953 'match of the century' against England, Robben and Valencia play slightly deeper to work the flank. Sebes: "I wanted the wingers to drop back when necessary to assist the defence"
• Joaquin gets on the ball, dribbles it forward, slings crosses into Klose. Budai: "Czibor, Kocsis and I trained together for years, just working on our crossing."
  
• Robben has the freedom to roam across the line and his team-mates will adapt to fill the space he has vacated. Puskas: "If Czibor wandered to the right wing, Budai would drop deeper. If Czibor decided to spend most of the game on the right wing, I would pull to the left to compensate".

 

[Joga Bonito]

Hungary 1953/Sebes (3-2-1-4)........................................................./..........................Gio's Modern Remake

 

[Joga Bonito]

Team DavidG:​

"I play against La Maquina with the full intention of beating them, but as a fan of football, I would prefer to sit on the stands and watch them play" - Ernesto Lazatti, Boca Juniors star of 1940s

The basic idea of La Maquina was to load the offensive third with frighteningly good attacking players, all capable of interchanging positions for the full 90 minutes. The team adopted a dribbling/possession based approach, often recycling the ball around the midfield and attack for long passages of play without ever attempting a shot on goal. Think of the total football dutch team, and the way they changed positions with such ease. Now combine that with the arsenal teams of recent years who would rather walk the ball into the net. That's as close as an idea as you will get to how this team played. The midfield and defence were all very capable on the ball, with the defender's being particularly adept off the ball due to their pace and athleticism.
To simplify it, La Maquina was so talented that it effectively just battered teams for fun, and although often accused of adopting a somewhat " We will just score more than you" approach, in 4 of the 6 seasons that La Maquina played together, they conceded by far the fewest goals in the league. Make no mistake, this team knew how to defend.

Style -Possession and Dribbling based. With a goalkeeper capable of launching attacks and excellent ball-playing defender's, the ball was constantly being delivered to the front 5. The attacking onslaught's just did not stop, and the pace at which they countered was apparently frightening.


Defence

Defensive Line - Normal
Marking - Zonal
Off the ball - Aggressive closing down from the front , as-well as Rooney/Moreno dropping in to help the right hand side and Ramos and Rodolfi covering both sides of the pitch between them
On the ball - Rapid transitions through sweeper/Basic & risk-free passing to midfield and attackers. Goalkeeper excellent distribution with his feet.

Midfield

Veron (Rodolfi) and Iniesta (Ramos) held the fort in central midfield, with Veron playing the foil to Iniesta's creativity from deeper areas of the pitch. Rooney (Moreno) drifts into the centre ahead of the central midfielders, orchestrating attacks with his exquisite range of passing.

Attack

Best way to sum this up is that when Di Stefano came into La Maquina, he was effectively an understudy to the attackers of this team. all 5 of the players are capable of popping up anywhere in the final 3rd and dictating the play. All were supremely fit athletes and the pace of the two wider players on the left ( bale/ Loastao and Henry/ Labruna) was devastating as Pedernera ( Neymar ) simply pulled off the opposing teams centre backs, confusing them and ultimately opening up tons of space in behind. The role Pedernera played is very similar to the modern day false 9, with the expectation being he would assist and create just as often as he would score.

PLAYER ROLES

Goalkeeper- Jose Carrizo. Remained in Argentina his entire career, with River plate for 20+ years. He was an extremely competent goalkeeper capable of launching attacks with his feet. I chose Igor Akinfeev to replicate him due to his willingness to remain in his home country and his undoubted ability with his feet as a goalkeeper. Re-creation success- 9/10

RCB- Norberto Yacono. He was extremely small, but made up for this with a phenomenal leap and astounding pace. A true athlete, he took no prisoners in defence and although capable of getting forward, left that to the much more capable players on the right side. Equally adept at right bakc as he is at Centre back. Ivan Cordoba slots in perfect here. Re-creation Success- 9/10

LCB- Bernabe Ferreyra. Quite simply, he was an uncompromising defender who left the fancy stuff up to the other players. He did his job, albeit aggressively at times, and was also not scared to join the attack particularly when River plate were 2/3 goals in front. As comfortable at left back as he is at centre back. His replacement, Gabriel Heinze. Re-creation success - 8/10

CB- Ricardo Vaghi. Extremely temperamental, but a true leader on the pitch. He also had an uncompromising style, but his reading of the game was excellent. Giorgio Chiellini is one of the toughest defender's in the modern game, however is much more technical than Vaghi could ever have dreamed of ( Vaghi was a heavy smoker and not much of an athlete) so it could be argued that a modern day Chiellini would have made this la Maquina team even better. Bottom line, the role Vaghi played for this team, Chiellini does it week in, week out for Juventus. Re-creation success- 7/10

RCM- Bruno Rodolfi. played the foil to Ramos, using his pace and strength to break up attacks and help the defence. Extremely comfortable on the ball, he was happy to distribute the ball as soon as he got it and let the more technical attacking players do their thing, though he was capable of joining the attack if need be. Veron slots in great here, with his work ethic and " for the team" attitude clearly replicating Rodolfi's. Veron was extremely comfortable on the ball too, capable of playing exceptionally quick one touch stuff. He had the engine and determination to influence the attack but was equally as astute defensively. Ideal box-to box midfielder. Re-creation success- 8/10

LCM- Jose Ramos. A Deep lying midfielder capable of dictating the play from central midfield and getting forward to join in the attacks. Iniesta is a clear upgrade here in every respect. He was born to play this exact role. Re-creation success- 8/10

RW- Juan Carlos Munoz. a traditional outside right who possessed lightning pace and exceptional dribbling abilities. He stayed glued to the wing when off the ball but as soon as an attack began to develop on his side he was gone. Ludovic Giuly, but for the emergenc of Messi, would have played this role for many more years at Barcelona. Re-creation success- 9/10

LW- Felix Loastao. Capable of getting back and defending, but his main attribute was his acceleration. Once he was gone, there was no catching him, and his delivery enabled Angel Labruna to notch a fair amount of his goals. He possessed a great shot, and although he was mainly a direct player similar to Munoz on the right, he was more adept at cutting inside. In fact the best way to sum up how he played, is to refer to the man who's replicating him's best performance. Gareth Bale v Inter Milan in the champions league. Thats how Loastao played week in week out and thats why the earlier tottenham version of Gareth Bale ( where he started becoming world class) was chosen to replace him. Re-creation success- 9/10

RAM- " Charro " Moreno. He was known as a player of great technique, great vision, and lethal in the penalty area. Despite his reputation for drinking, smoking and not going to training, Moreno was also known for his formidable heading ability and fine physical qualities. He dictated the pace of play with his range of passing, dribbling and fine finishing. He would also help out defensively, ensuring Yacono has some help if required. Wayne Rooney is as close as it gets in this draft, as Moreno was just too unique. Re-creation success- 8/10

CF/SS- Adolfo Pedernera- One of the first examples of a false 9. He loved to drop in between the oppositions defence and midfield and dictate play with his pace, dribbling, passing and ability to use both feet. Pedernera could keep the ball for fun, and was known as the star of this team. Some might see this as controversial, but I've replaced Ibrahimovic here with Neymar. The Santos version of Neymar mixed with the barcelona version where Messi was out injured is enough indication to me that he would slot in very nice to the Pedernera role. Neymar is two footed, extremely creative, assists and scores a lot and really has that star quality, along with that understanding of the beautiful south American way of playing. Re-creation rating- 8/10

LF/ST- Angel Labruna. One of the greatest goal-scorers in Argentinian History. Devastating acceleration, insane top speed, close control, precise finishing and a tendency to cut in from the left and run in behind the defence. It's insane how similar that description is to the man who replaces him in this team, Thierry Henry. It's the reason i chose him first, and the similarity is uncanny. The way henry played with Bergkamp is similar to the way Labruna played with Pedernera, and ibrahimovic is not a bad replacement in terms of this historic duo. Re-creation rating- 10/10

 

[Joga Bonito]

River Plate Renato Cesarini (3-2-5)............................................../..........................DavidG's Modern Remake

 

[Joga Bonito]

Good luck

@Gio @DavidG

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Tell you what @Gio

What a match this would be with both historic and modern players

 

[Gio]

Tell you what @Gio

What a match this would be with both historic and modern players

Yeah, I'm thinking 8-7 or something along those lines.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Yeah I really dont have an issue with any of your team, save for maybe there being someone a bit better than Joaquin for your RW slot. Think Raul as Puskas is one of the more spot on like-for-likes from the whole draft.

The lack of video evidence for my team in particular is really difficult to deal with. Based on everything i've read about pedernera, I know that Neymar can tick most of those boxes but without being able to analyse his movement on the pitch, its difficult to substantially back it up.

Overall, I wanted the front 5 to have that star appeal, and I think the first 4 of Bale, Henry, Neymar and Rooney do that. Giuly has less of that star appeal but his abilities contrast well with what I know of Munoz.

 

[Gio]

I'll have a proper look at River later.

For Joaquin he was the man I had in mind for Budai from the outset. EAP made a fair point about Budai being more of a dribbler than Valencia. Hence bringing in the Spaniard. He fits very well, provides the natural width but backs it up with acceleration, dribbling and crossing. I certainly couldn't think of anyone in that mould of a higher quality in the pool. There were obviously a few wide attackers kicking about, but they mostly would compromise rather than complement the rest of the attack. And ultimately there were no right-footed right-wingers of that calibre.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

I'll have a proper look at River later.

For Joaquin he was the man I had in mind for Budai from the outset. EAP made a fair point about Budai being more of a dribbler than Valencia. Hence bringing in the Spaniard. He fits very well, provides the natural width but backs it up with acceleration, dribbling and crossing. I certainly couldn't think of anyone in that mould of a higher quality in the pool. There were obviously a few wide attackers kicking about, but they mostly would compromise rather than complement the rest of the attack And ultimately there were no right-footed right-wingers of that calibre.

The crossing thing is definitely in Joaquin's favour . I remember his early betis days , 9/10 deliveries were spot on and he was so accurate despite running at full tilt .

 

[Physiocrat]

@DavidG

Are you sure that Iniesta is a good Ramos replacement? I don't know much about that River team but it seems like the most insanely attacking team of all-time. It makes Kevin Keegan's sides look like Howard Wilkinson's.

 

[Gio]

Yeah I'm not sure about Iniesta being the deepest-lying midfielder, in a two-man midfield no less, with another attack-minded creator in there as well. They could be great fits for all I know, and Veron/Ramos seems to make sense, but it does seem incredibly gung-ho and top-heavy - even for the times.

 

[harms]

Gio has been my favorite since the round one (excluding my own recreation for obvious reasons), but I feel that at some point it was too hard for him to get better, which allowed others to catch up.

Not sure about Iniesta as an upgrade, but then again, I don't know much about River's midfield

Akinfeev isn't a 9/10 though, as I explained earlier, he is hardly a 6/10

 

[Deleted member 101472]

@DavidG

Are you sure that Iniesta is a good Ramos replacement? I don't know much about that River team but it seems like the most insanely attacking team of all-time. It makes Kevin Keegan's sides look like Howard Wilkinson's.

Positive . He's an upgrade . This WAS one of the most attack minded teams of all time . The two midfielders weren't necessarily there to protect the defence , more help keep possession and deliver the ball to the more dangerous players .

Playing this formation post 1960s is probably suicide , but at the time and in that league , it worked .

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Gio has been my favorite since the round one (excluding my own recreation for obvious reasons), but I feel that at some point it was too hard for him to get better, which allowed others to catch up.

Not sure about Iniesta as an upgrade, but then again, I don't know much about River's midfield

Akinfeev isn't a 9/10 though, as I explained earlier, he is hardly a 6/10

I forgot to take that out to be honest as I do agree . Should I make it further he'd be the only replacement I'd have to make .

 

[Gio]

@harms Yeah the last reinforcement round I was mostly twiddling at the edges while most of the marquee players were getting secured. The front six is basically as would have been planned with full access to the pool. And I think the quality of the last four teams is gravitating together. So it'll come down to fit again, as is what the draft is all about.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

The quote at the top of my description is what I have tried to base my team around . That's from someone who played against them - a rarity for this team in terms of opponents opinion .

 

[Tuppet]

On Maquina midfield -

With its most common lineup (see above) the team had a solid defense, with a genuine defensive rock, the temperamental Ricardo Vaghin acting as the anchor. In midfield, it boasted two defensive midfielders of great sacrifice and vision in Bruno Rodolfi and Jose Ramos. They were joined in midfield by 'Charro' Moreno, the creative force of the team, who tracked back and covered the whole right side. Adolfo Pedernera, the centre-forward, would withdraw to midfield, confounding the central defenders who were supposed to mark him and opening spaces for the other forwards (as Hidegkuti would do for Hungary in the following decade).

As seen in the graphic above, the team lined up in the widely used W-M of those days. The temperamental Ricardo Vaghi led the defence with able support from Norberto Yacono and Luis Ferriera – full-backs of the team. Bruno Rodolfi and Jose Ramos held the fort in central midfield, with Rodolfi playing the foil to Ramos’ creativity from deeper areas of the pitch.

Midfielders:
Bruno RODOLFI: Central midfield. River (1934-1948). Caps 170, 5 goals // From old, peppy, personality and leadership ability to lead his team and distribute the game.

José RAMOS: Half left. River (1940-52). 332 caps, 18 goals. // In a post extinct in the world after soccer sweden, Ramos is among the best. Good management and deployment of up and down, was an excellent collaborator for central midfielders distrubed the game.

Thats the extent of my knowledge of La Maquina midfield, but it does seem by reading it that, a genuinely great dribbler and attacking mid like Iniesta might be a poor fit here. It seem to me that Ramos was probably quite creative, but in a deep midfielder sense - a Xavi, Xabi or Pirlo - as in they hold the defensive fort as well. Not that Iniesta can't do it, it just seem that, its not his game. Veron as Ramos and a more defensive partner as Rodolfi would have been better IMO.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

On Maquina midfield -







Thats the extent of my knowledge of La Maquina midfield, but it does seem by reading it that, a genuinely great dribbler and attacking mid like Iniesta might be a poor fit here. It seem to me that Ramos was probably quite creative, but in a deep midfielder sense - a Xavi, Xabi or Pirlo - as in they hold the defensive fort as well. Not that Iniesta can't do it, it just seem that, its not his game. Veron as Ramos and a more defensive partner as Rodolfi would have been better IMO.

Look at the sources, hardly reputable.

"I play against La Maquina with the full intention of beating them, but as a fan of football, I would prefer to sit on the stands and watch them play" - Ernesto Lazatti, Boca Juniors star of 1940s

wouldnt you rather watch iniesta and veron than veron and xabi alonso/xavi/pirlo?

 

[Deleted member 101472]

@Tuppet

One of those sources is PES stats. I take that to mean that it's a chat forum where people recreated classic teams and determined the stats not entirely based on expert knowledge .

 

[Joga Bonito]

As a semi-finalist whose match is yet to take place, your vote is unfortunately not valid @Tuppet. @harms could you vote for DavidG to balance it out. Cheers.

 

[harms]

As a semi-finalist whose match is yet to take place, your vote is unfortunately not valid @Tuppet. @harms could you vote for DavidG to balance it out. Cheers.

Done.

 

[harms]

Look at the sources, hardly reputable.

"I play against La Maquina with the full intention of beating them, but as a fan of football, I would prefer to sit on the stands and watch them play" - Ernesto Lazatti, Boca Juniors star of 1940s

wouldnt you rather watch iniesta and veron than veron and xabi alonso/xavi/pirlo?

Tbf even those hardly reputable sources hold more weight in understanding the team's game style than a quote that tells us, literally, just that their play was entertaining.

Would I rather watch Ronaldinho instead of Chiellini? Yes.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Tbf even those hardly reputable sources hold more weight in understanding the team's game style than a quote that tells us, literally, just that their play was entertaining.

Would I rather watch Ronaldinho instead of Chiellini? Yes.

Bit of a shit point to be fair harms. Iniesta and Veron are both central midfielders , who are trying to replicate central midfielders .

And the quote from someone who actually played against them doesn't hold weight against an average blog, a shit website and a computer game fantasy stats forum ? Haha ok then .

 

[harms]

Bit of a shit point to be fair harms. Iniesta and Veron are both central midfielders , who are trying to replicate central midfielders .

And the quote from someone who actually played against them doesn't hold weight against an average blog, a shit website and a computer game fantasy stats forum ? Haha ok then .

Well, Iniesta is an attacking leftish midfielder and your player is supposed to be a defensive one, those are different positions as well.

And your quote isn't informative enough to be held in such high esteem. It's enough to discount building an Atletico-esque team in order to recreate it but then it's pretty much it. I don't think that out of the front 7 they only had 2 players with decent defensive output, they were very attacking but no one can pull it off, imo

 

[harms]

I argued earlier that Iniesta's workrate and defensive game is enough to replicate the furthest midfielder in the midfield four (with a pure destroyer) and most were against it - and now you play him in the midfield too alongside the hardworking box-to-box with an attacking mindset

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Well, Iniesta is an attacking leftish midfielder and your player is supposed to be a defensive one, those are different positions as well.

And your quote isn't informative enough to be held in such high esteem. It's enough to discount building an Atletico-esque team in order to recreate it but then it's pretty much it. I don't think that out of the front 7 they only had 2 players with decent defensive output, they were very attacking but no one can pull it off, imo

Well that all depends on what they were coming up against. Since this was a new way of playing, it would require a new way of thinking to combat it.

Lets look at it modern day. Is it entirely inconceivable that those 3 defenders, supported by the 3 midfielders ( i mean they might not be busquets level defensively but players hardly just walk by them) wouldnt be able to contain teams with a modern day approach? Rooney, Iniesta and Veron helping out isn't the worst combination, and when the ball falls to one of those, it's next location is directly at the feet of bale, neymar, henry or giuly, and those are all skillful, dynamic players.

What's overlooked in this team is the LCB and RCB who both have expert knowledge of their respective full back and centre back positions. Look at The italian back 3 at te moment, all of them would be extremely comfortable anywhere on the back line.

Without video and without an abundance of quotes, this is an extremely tough team to TRULY recreate because the reality of the situation is we just dont know enough.

In my opinion, the defensive capability is there and the attacking 5 are a great reflection of what La Maquina was best known for.

 

[harms]

Can you recreate Rothko's painting based on the quote from his contemporary saying that it's very colorful and aesthetically pleasing?

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Can you recreate Rothko's painting based on the quote from his contemporary saying that it's very colorful and aesthetically pleasing?

No but the painting exists. It would appear that a complex explanation of this team and the individual roles does not.

stop trying to be a smart arse. you've said your bit. Without anything concrete and consistent, it's just hard to recreate this effectively.

 

[Enigma_87]

I agree with what tuppet and harms said on Iniesta. Veron there I can agree. But Iniesta? He has a good work rate but would make sense to put him in Moreno's place not in CM.

On Gio's team again my only concern is Lahm for reasons discussed in the previous game. Nesta is a great upgrade on Silva. I think Joaquin is also good addition to the team.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

So if I had gone with a midfield of say Veron and mascherano , would it have changed people's minds in terms of their vote ?

It's frustrating because they are the two players of which the least info is available for the team , so I went with creativity and work rate as the important aspects to be covered between the positions, as well as that flair element associated with this side .

 

[harms]

No but the painting exists. It would appear that a complex explanation of this team and the individual roles does not.

stop trying to be a smart arse. you've said your bit. Without anything concrete and consistent, it's just hard to recreate this effectively.

Even if it didn't, the quote from some gardener who saw the photo of it in the paper saying "it's a square" will give us much more basis than the "coloristic and aesthetically pleasing" comment from a contemporary art critic. I don't think that my question validated such response to be fair, you completely missed the point (your quote being irrelevant in discussing player roles because it says literally nothing about player roles) and now is on the defensive

If you say that there is literally no sources about the system and their style of play it makes your job is impossible, but we know the formation, we have lots of memories from people who saw them play or heard it from their fathers - I haven't done research on La Maquina, but did you?

Too bad that Wilson's book is a month away from publishing, I would expect him to have a big chapter about La Maquina and some useful info with his tactical and historical insight

 

[harms]

So if I had gone with a midfield of say Veron and mascherano , would it have changed people's minds in terms of their vote ?

Because there are no players between Iniesta and Mascherano's styles of play. Even Thiago, who played for you 2 times already was a better fit in the eyes of the spectators - and that's why he wasn't a point of discussion earlier. His Joga Bonito tendencies are also very appropriate, based on this Munoz quote, actually, he does much more things for a show than Iniesta, who is incredibly pragmatic and effective (despite being absolutely breathtaking to watch), every dribble, however impossible, is just the shortest path to the goal - Bergkamp-esque

We didn’t look for the goal. We never thought we couldn’t score against our rivals. We went out on the pitch and played our way: take the ball, give it to me, a gambeta, this, that and the goal came by itself. Generally it took a long time for the goal to come and the anguish was because games were not settled quickly. Inside the box, of course, we wanted to score, but in the midfield we had fun. There was no rush. It was instinctive.

People aren't saying to you that Iniesta's pick is a mistake, they ask you to justify it - what made you pick him? We want discussion, not a childish response

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Even if it didn't, the quote from some gardener who saw the photo of it in the paper saying "it's a square" will give us much more basis than the "coloristic and aesthetically pleasing" comment from a contemporary art critic. I don't think that my question validated such response to be fair, you completely missed the point (your quote being irrelevant in discussing player roles because it says literally nothing about player roles) and now is on the defensive

If you say that there is literally no sources about the system and their style of play it makes your job is impossible, but we know the formation, we have lots of memories from people who saw them play or heard it from their fathers - I haven't done research on La Maquina, but did you?

Too bad that Wilson's book is a month away from publishing, I would expect him to have a big chapter about La Maquina and some useful info with his tactical and historical insight

Of course I did my research on them . How else would I be able to tell you about the uncanny resemblance with yacono and cordobas height versus positional stereotypes , Henry and labrunas uncannily similar goalscoring records. The truth is that their was too much going on in the world for their to really be any real English written journalism , and as much as I wanted to give the best replication of this team possible , it's a fantasy draft and not a crusade by me to learn Spanish / Portuguese by translating articles and opinions on the river plate fans forums .

 

[harms]

Of course I did my research on them

Then share it with us, what's the problem? What made you pick him? You probably read something about Ramos' close control and passing ability that resembled Iniesta?

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Because there are no players between Iniesta and Mascherano's styles of play. Even Thiago, who played for you 2 times already was a better fit in the eyes of the spectators - and that's why he wasn't a point of discussion earlier. His Joga Bonito tendencies are also very appropriate, based on this Munoz quote, actually, he does much more things for a show than Iniesta, who is incredibly pragmatic and effective (despite being absolutely breathtaking to watch), every dribble, however impossible, is just the shortest path to the goal - Bergkamp-esque


People aren't saying to you that Iniesta's pick is a mistake, they ask you to justify it - what made you pick him? We want discussion, not a childish response

What made me pick him is the quote from the Boca player . i wanted central midfielders who could dictate play , but with the onus being placed on them being much more towards their offensive capabilities . Iniesta and Veron are by no means bad at the defensive side ( particularly iniestas closing down )

Look at this video of Iniesta defending . This is how I imagine it would have been in la maquina , winning the ball and transitioning into attack straight away.

 

[harms]

Here's what I found, for example, albeit in another untrustworthy blog entry (google-translate):

From the tactical point of view of the River Plate does not propose anything new, at least to 'appearance.Mass training in the field is the classic WM (or system), tactic in vogue in those years. The real novelty is not so much in the - alleged - tactics available, as in the tasks and movements of individual players. The goalkeeper is the young Amadeo Carrizo , as we saw earlier, is almost "forced" to play free view of the strong offensive attitude of the team. This means that it is often seen out of the stakes, even at the height of the spot-kick, so be ready to go out on the feet of attacking opponents in case of break. In front of him there are three "fullbacks" ( "fullbacks"): the right is Norberto Yácono , quick and technical player also has discrete physical strength; left there Ferreira (later replaced by Rodriguez), a fullback with good technical and tactical means. At the center instead it works with tasks almost as a central defensive modern Ricardo Vaghi , brain and lungs defense. E 'him the "star" of the defense: Ricardo is a player with excellent vision, standing educated and, above all, great competitive spirit. The two median operating front of the defense are Rodolfi Bruno and José Ramos , who alone give balance to the team. Their main task is to cover the advanced attackers and recover many balls as possible.

In the book that I have about LA football there are mostly compliments to their attacking five and they don't mention other players, sadly. But at some point the sheer quantity of those "shit" sources and the adsense of any sources saying otherwise I'm inclined to believe them.

 

[Tuppet]

As a semi-finalist whose match is yet to take place, your vote is unfortunately not valid @Tuppet. @harms could you vote for DavidG to balance it out. Cheers.

oops, sorry about that.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Looking at this tactics board , and the arrows for the attacking 5, It's just too much guess work as to what Ramos and rodolfis role actually were . With no defensive , offensive or sideways arrows , its maybe safe to assume that they just occupy the area where their names are , but the offensive nature of this team suggests to me they would have likely joined in with the ball in the opposition half , and with their work rates unquestioned , I couldn't think of two players who would suit it more .



Here we have 7 different players from la maquina , all seemingly involved in skillful / offensive moves . I'm unable to identify them but seems like " joga bonito" was the culture here .

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Well @harms at least that article confirms that my defence is a pretty accurate re-creation .

Verona engine and iniestas ability to close down the ball would have been enough for this team , and after recovering it , they definitely have the players in front of them to give it to who will do the real damage , ala La Maquina .