Redcafe Sheep Draft - MJJ vs VivaJanuzaj

Who will win based on all the players at their peak?

  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .

Moby

Dick
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
51,356
Location
Barcelona, Catalunya
The aim of this poll is to decide the winner in this fantasy game contested between two sides assembled through the method of drafting. For the purpose of this game, all players would be considered as being at their respective peaks. I invite all posters to go through the formations, tactics and arguments that will follow in the thread and kindly leave their vote. Thanks.


MJJ's tactics
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Our defense is imo one of the strongest in the draft. We have Vidic and Ayala as the CBs, as good as a fit on paper as vidic/ferdinand were in their prime. The fullback spots are occupied by Abidal and Simic, both players who are comfortable playing either as a Center back or fullback. Simic in particular was regarded as one of the best man-markers in the world while the qualities of abidal are known to all.

To complement this defense, we have the class of Veron and Vidal, the best midfielder in the world today. Combined the two are as good as a midfield as you will find anywhere.

Upfront we have the maradona of the carpathians, Hagi, combining with Barnes to supply Aguero and Rush. I doubt any defense will be able to cope with the dribbling and pace of Aguero and Barnes, particularly when you have Hagi threading balls through and Rush to finish it off.

The plan is for quick transitions using the passing of Veron, while my defense and Vidal will be able to soak up all that VJ can throw at it.
Why my team will win.
My defense is better than his, lahm notwithstanding. Baines as a defender is worse than present evra, something Hagi/Barnes and Aguero will love to exploit.

My wingers are also better than his, with sanchez in particular being a weak link given the present company.

Rush to me was a better striker compared to crespo, and with my defense being better as well, I can see this ending only one way.

And am I the only one thinking nikipoldis is woefully out of his depth in this tournament? Can see him costing his team big time.
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Team MJJ
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Team VivaJanuzaj
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VivaJanuzaj's tactics
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Basic tactics:
My whole team is built around one of the best individuals the game has ever seen - Michael Laudrup, and it gets the best of him. In the attack, you got three players in Alexis-Nedved-Crespo who have brilliant movement that splits open defenses, and know how to score goals, making themselves available to one of the best passers the game has ever seen. I got perfect balance in defense and midfield - Baines and Lahm are both offensive full backs, while Lahm is more solid defensively and rarely needs the help of his winger, Baines is less solid and that's why he's going to partner Nedved - one of the best wingers in history whose a real workhorse, while Lahm has Alexis Sanchez - a winger with a good tactical awareness who also tracks back often. My central midfield has Paul Ince - an English legendary defensive midfielder, to cover for my roaming full backs, and Luka Modric whose tactical awareness and work rates combined with his brilliant passing abilities makes him one of the best CMs in this era. In defense as I said I have Euro 2004 best Goalkeeper Antonios Nikopolidis, guarded by a known and proven partnership of Carvalho & Terry. These two CBs formed a brilliant defensive wall that made Chelsea the great team it was, Lahm is Germany and Bayern Munich's legend for many years now and was never questioned defensively, and Baines is a composed LB and currently the best one in the PL.

Key Points:
  • Proven Partnerships - As I said earlier, Terry-Carvalho was Chelsea's brick wall between 2004-2010, winning together 3 league titles, 3 FA cups, 2 League cups & 2 Community shields, Carvalho once described their partnership as: "Like being two halves of the same whole". Another great partnership was Nedved-Crespo, Nedved & Crespo shared a season together in Lazio in 2000-2001 resulting Crespo's highest scoring season with 26 league goals and Nedved's 9 - when they played together, Crespo scored the most goals in his career and Nedved had the 3rd highest goalscoring season of his career.
  • Perfect defensive cover - Both my full backs love to roam and are very dangerous offensively, Baines is the best offensive full back in the PL, and Lahm is the best full back in the world - both defensively and offensively , but they need cover. Because Baines is the weaker one defensively he's been partnered with Nedved who was known for his work rate and amazing tactical awareness, Nedved never stopped running and he'll help Baines in most of the attacks, providing cover from an attacking winger or roaming full backs. Lahm doesn't usually need help, and that's why he's partner is Alexis Sanchez, who isn't known for his wonderful work rate and discipline like Nedved, but knows he tactical way around a team and provides help for the full back when needed. But, covering both my wings against counter attacks is Ince's job. When both my full backs will be bombarding forward, Ince will sit deep and help Carvalho-Terry save my team from getting caught off guard.
  • Possession Possession Possession - When we're talking about what it takes to play possession game, my team has everything required. Modric is the best creative central midfielder today, spreading passes all around the pitch and keeping it simple when required, Laudrup is a passing genius, and I have two wingers who can collect the ball and help the possession game. But I have one Secret Weapon - Lahm. Guardiola took Lahm this year and turned him from a full back to one of the best CMs today, getting over 90% passes to their destinations this season. When I attack, Lahm will often drift to the center while Ince covers his RB defensive position, than the trio of Lahm-Modric-Laudrup are a trio that can hold the ball better than most teams, and any one of them has that pinpoint passing ability to demolish defenses. Nedved Sanchez and Crespo are in heaven.
Why I will win the match:
  • Laudrup's Freedom - MJJ's team have two central midfielders who aren't man markers, or completely defensive one - Vidal is a classic box to box midfielder, and Veron at his prime was an offensive CM and at times AM. With no cover there it leaves Laudrup free of being man marked and with room to do his magic - and you don't give Laudrup room, because he will punish you.
  • Controlling Possession - As I stated earlier, my team has everything it takes to dominate the game in possession, and against MJJ it should be relatively easy - with Vidal & Veron as MJJ's central midfield - one is a box to box midfielder, and the other is an offensive CM and at times AM. With my team's possession abilities, and MJJ's lack of ways to break it, I predict a very one sided possession game.
  • Taking Hagi out of the game - Gehorghe Hagi is MJJ's best player, and by playing him wide left, he will be facing a tough challenge with Lahm - not the ideal defender you want to face, and the perfect matchup for me. If Hagi will drift to the center he'll meet Ince to run endlessly around him - an easier mission, but still tough.
  • Nedved vs Simic - Simic is definite weak spot in MJJ's defense, and he's facing the brilliant Nedved and his bombarding Baines. A tough mission to any full back, and Simic can't win it. Nedved will have a field day in that left wing of my attack.
PLAYER PROFILES
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Good luck MJJ & rpitroda, voted to myself to see results I think you should too.

This is odd, I expected Hagi to start at the LW, I certainly did not see this coming. Hagi on the RW?
MJJ apparently playing his best player out of position! Hagi played club football as an #10 and for Romania as LW, but I don't think he ever played RW..

Next I'll analyze some of the unrealistic stuff being mentioned in my opponent's tactics

My wingers are also better than his, with sanchez in particular being a weak link given the present company.
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Really? You'd take Hagi - not a winger, and Barens over one of the top wingers in history - Nedved and a rising star who is a starter for one of the best teams in history Barcelona? That's funny. You might be the only one ever.

To complement this defense, we have the class of Veron and Vidal, the best midfielder in the world today. Combined the two are as good as a midfield as you will find anywhere.
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Yeah, Vidal is one of the best CMs today, and Veron was brilliant. The thing is, non of them offers half as much you need to complement a defense, Veron is very offensive as a CM and he played as an AM most of the time, and Vidal's power coming offensively.

My defense is better than his, lahm notwithstanding. Baines as a defender is worse than present evra, something Hagi/Barnes and Aguero will love to exploit
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Rush to me was a better striker compared to crespo, and with my defense being better as well, I can see this ending only one way.
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Okay, so let me get this straight, your CB duo will find it easier to cope with Laudrup & Crespo, than mine will be against Aguero & Rush? I see no sense in it, maybe your CB duo is slightly better, and that's a big maybe, but your striker & SS are much much worst!
 
And all of that makes me wonder..

Who in the world is going to try and mark or interrupt Laudrup from having space? And control the match?
No one. Surely neither of Vidal/Veron.
 
despite the self-goal with the goalie, i like Viva's team better. voting for him straight away

defence,midfield and laudrup
 
sajeev said:
despite the self-goal with the goalie, i like Viva's team better. voting for him straight away

defence,midfield and laudrup
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Cheers... But why self-goal? Nikopolidis isn't error prone. He is probably the worst keeper in the draft but he's never been a keeper that teams are afraid that will make a mistake any given moment of the game like DDG in his first half season in United..
 
Gone with Viva here, I love MJJ's team though and it wasn't an easy decision.

Ian Rush's record speaks for it self but with Aguero and Hagi I think he may have been better served by having Hagi as the 10, Aguero up front and then going with a genuine right winger.
 
Stobzilla said:
Gone with Viva here, I love MJJ's team though and it wasn't an easy decision.

Ian Rush's record speaks for it self but with Aguero and Hagi I think he may have been better served by having Hagi as the 10, Aguero up front and then going with a genuine right winger.
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Did Hagi ever play wide right? I know he played left wing for Romania but I don't think he ever played wide right..
 
VivaJanuzaj said:
Cheers... But why self-goal? Nikopolidis isn't error prone. He is probably the worst keeper in the draft but he's never been a keeper that teams are afraid that will make a mistake any given moment of the game like DDG in his first half season in United..
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i think we debated this earlier, i am just biased by his performances in champions league.
i think you could have drafted better on that one, but it is a self-goal relatively speaking (as you say worst keeper in the draft)
 
Can't really add much here. Can't see past Viva winning this unless MJJ has some incredibly suitable RW sub up his sleeve to get the best out of Hagi through the middle.

E.g. Mascherano, or Rui Costa in previous games (:eek:).
 
Couple of mistakes here by yourself MJJ. Hagi has to be central and should have gone for a winger instead of Aguero.
 
crappycraperson said:
Couple of mistakes here by yourself MJJ. Hagi has to be central and should have gone for a winger instead of Aguero.
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Yeah, messed up in the last replacement round although I dont think hagi as a RW is that big a problem but oh well.

In Round 2 they faced Argentina, who were shorn of Diego Maradona who was thrown out of the tournament for taking drugs. Răducioiu, suspended, was hardly missed, as coach Anghel Iordănescu pushed Dumitrescu forward to play as a striker and the player responded by scoring twice in the first twenty minutes, one a superbly subtle left foot flick from a right-wing Hagi cross slotted between the Argentine defenders. In between, Gabriel Batistuta scored a penalty, but after half-time Romania netted a superb third on the counterattack, with Hagi beating goalkeeper Luis Islas. Abel Balbo pulled one back, but Romania held on for a shock win.
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@VivaJanuzaj Dude could play anywhere in midfield. My front three are interchangeable anyway not that it matters much now.
 
I wish people would state why they are voting against my team atleast so I can debate the concerns. Really dont think my team should be losing out here by such a margin, if at all.
 
Your two best attackers are playing out of position, Rush is up against a rock-solid defensive partnership, his team is going to dominate possession and there's more than enough creativity in the Nedved-Laudrup-Modric axis to make that count.
 
Brwned said:
Your two best attackers are playing out of position, Rush is up against a rock-solid defensive partnership, his team is going to dominate possession and there's more than enough creativity in the Nedved-Laudrup-Modric axis to make that count.
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Hagi and?

Hagi used to play across the midfield through out his career, and as the passage above showed even in a world cup. So dont think his impact will be that bad, vidal and veron are easily as solid as vidal and simeone partnership for lazio which was second to none. Vidal can easily perform the role of a ball winner and did so to great effect before this season. Like I said in my OP, he is a complete midfielder.
 
I'm a big fan of Vidal and think the partnership with Veron is very similar to Modric-Ince but the difference is you have a forward in front of them and your only offensive playmaker stuck out wide while he has Laudrup directly in front and Nedved supporting the midfield. It makes all the difference for me. And his defence is better despite Baines probably being the worst player on the pitch.
 
Brwned said:
I'm a big fan of Vidal and think the partnership with Veron is very similar to Modric-Ince but the difference is you have a forward in front of them and your only offensive playmaker stuck out wide while he has Laudrup directly in front and Nedved supporting the midfield. It makes all the difference for me. And his defence is better despite Baines probably being the worst player on the pitch.
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Fair enough.
 
Very much my thoughts as well. Not that it matters at this point, but who are your subs MJJ? Any scope for trying something else?
 
@Brwned I don't think Veron-Vidal is similar to Ince-Modric at all, Veron is a very offensive CM who used to play AM plenty of time, and Vidal is a box to box midfielder, pure and simple, as opposed to Modric whose a deep sitting CM playmaker and Ince whose a purely defensive midfielder. How are these pairing alike? Or did you mean level-wise?

@MJJ Vidal can be a ball winner, but that's just throwing away he's best abilities! Vidal last couple of season was Juventus' highest scorer and assister, so playing him a ball winning midfielder is throwing away his best qualities
 
VivaJanuzaj said:
@Brwned I don't think Veron-Vidal is similar to Ince-Modric at all, Veron is a very offensive CM who used to play AM plenty of time, and Vidal is a box to box midfielder, pure and simple, as opposed to Modric whose a deep sitting CM playmaker and Ince whose a purely defensive midfielder. How are these pairing alike? Or did you mean level-wise?
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Vidal has played at centre back before dozens of times and I don't agree in the slightest that Ince is a purely defensive midfielder. He's just a slightly worse version of Vidal for me. Modric is more suited to the midfield two but Verón put in a decent shift too and can perform the same role to a similar level if ably supported. He just needs a midfielder in there ahead of him like Laudrup rather than Aguero.
 
Playing Vidal as a CB or DM is a waste, again, I'm not arguing that he can't do it, I'm arguing that it's a waste of his best qualities by doing that. Modric has the flair and stamina to play box to box, but playing him in that role is utter stupidity. I admire Vidal, and he can definitely play a midfield two imo, but he can't with Veron, he should have someone a little less offensive there
 
VivaJanuzaj said:
@Brwned I don't think Veron-Vidal is similar to Ince-Modric at all, Veron is a very offensive CM who used to play AM plenty of time, and Vidal is a box to box midfielder, pure and simple, as opposed to Modric whose a deep sitting CM playmaker and Ince whose a purely defensive midfielder. How are these pairing alike? Or did you mean level-wise?
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Ince was a box-to-box midfielder.

Verón was very versatile, certainly played the "deep-sitting CM playmaker role" both for club and country. His few top class performances for us used to be playing exactly as that in European games. If your argument was Modric could be more dynamic and handle lack of space/time on the ball better I would agree, but saying Verón wouldn't be excellent as a deep-sitting playmaker is bonkers. He pretty much single-handedly won the 2009 Libertadores for lowly Estudiantes playing in that exact role and carving the opposition open time and time again.
 
Brwned said:
He just needs a midfielder in there ahead of him like Laudrup rather than Aguero.
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Yeah, when I came in and looked at the score I tried really hard to pick MJJs merits but I always invariably came back to Laudrup being in his element and Hagi being out wide, then I thought about Aguero and why not shunt him out right... Maybe, then I would look back at Viva and see Nedved.

Hopeless really. The back six platforms MJJ edges it, but Viva's front four is out of sight.
 
And 20 people seem to be telling @Mauzindark he is, indeed, in the dark ;)

It's just a lulzy ribbing! Care to share your views though?
 
VivaJanuzaj said:
Playing Vidal as a CB or DM is a waste, again, I'm not arguing that he can't do it, I'm arguing that it's a waste of his best qualities by doing that. Modric has the flair and stamina to play box to box, but playing him in that role is utter stupidity. I admire Vidal, and he can definitely play a midfield two imo, but he can't with Veron, he should have someone a little less offensive there
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Yes, it stops Vidal from being the goal machine he can be, but Ince is being "wasted" in much the same way. I just think you've got completely the wrong idea of Verón to be honest. If you watch this video from the Copa Libertadores final you'll see him win the ball back countless times and initiate an attack from his own half. And of course he created both of Estudiantes' goals which won them their first Copa Libertadores title in almost 40 years.



You mentioned before about Modric's defensive play being grossly underrated but you've done the exact same with Verón here. The number of times he won the ball back there must've been in the double figures. And as antohan said you have to be mental to question his ability to playmake from there.
 
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Since when Modric is a deep laying playmaker? Just the advantage of Viva's, he has Nedved who has the stamina and energy of Edgar Davids.
 
Isotope said:
Since when Modric is a deep laying playmaker? Just the advantage of Viva's, he has Nedved who has the stamina and energy of Edgar Davids.
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Since when Modric isn't? Look at how he plays for RM, especially when he plays with Khedira. He's the perfect fit for that role with his attributes.

@Brwned I'll look into the video a bit later, I agree I forgot about he's times as a deep CM but I think Modric is better suited for that role..
And did Ince really play a box to box role? I remember him really defensive minded
 
Isotope said:
Since when Modric is a deep laying playmaker?
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He is well suited to that role, although you wouldn't be wrong in saying he has played in more advanced roles as much as (if not more) than Verón, which is what makes the whole argument mind-boggling.
 
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