RedCafe.net Editorial: Keane: Made of the write stuff?

Niall

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<a href="https://www.redcafe.net/2002-03/editorial.php3?id=77" target="_blank">Keane: Made of the write stuff?</a>
Roy Keane's newly published autobiography has sparked much controversy among supporters, pundits, players and staff at both Manchester United and other clubs. Has the United skipper gone too far? Said too much to the detriment of himself and the club? Mark Bain throws his thoughts on the issue into the melting pot...
 
Well argued article as usual. From our point of view if the book has served to allow Roy to get "everything off his chest", to settle his mind and to now get on with the business then all well and good. The point about the contents being vetted by all and subdry legal people is well made. I imagine that they concluded that Haaland would not sue due to previous admissions that the tackle was not the cause of his long term injury problems. I assume also that they felt the FA would not take further action seeing as Keane was punished for the offence at the time anyway. However I am not sure about a potential disrepute charge which might be treated separately. If the latter led to a suspension as opposed to a fine, United might be a little more cautious when they have to vett the next autobiography.
 
You have to assume that the United lawyers saw the contents of the book before it was published. I think the main problem with the book is the timing of its release. The is still so much media attention following the World Cup. Lets face all we really know, is what has been serialised in The Times and what has been covered in the rest of the media. Until we have seen the full context its a little to early to judge.
 
Rather have Robson in my Utd team then Keane any day.

Robbo didn`t slag his team-mates off.

With the £million Keane can buy some new Rolexs.
 
Originally posted by Julian Denny:
<strong>Well argued article as usual. </strong><hr></blockquote>
My hole it is
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
"perhaps the FA should thank Roy Keane for bringing these issues (attempting to injure a fellow professional) within the game to the fore. "
Have you ever heard such an idiotic claim in all your life?

Employ the Catagorical Imperative (Kant):
what if all players acted and behaved like Roy Keane? Would the game be better or worse for it?

Disclaimer:
For me, he'll always be defined by this WC and him bottling.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by jamesblonde:
<strong>
My hole it is
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
"perhaps the FA should thank Roy Keane for bringing these issues (attempting to injure a fellow professional) within the game to the fore. "
Have you ever heard such an idiotic claim in all your life?

Employ the Catagorical Imperative (Kant):
what if all players acted and behaved like Roy Keane? Would the game be better or worse for it?

Disclaimer:
For me, he'll always be defined by this WC and him bottling.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by jamesblonde:
<strong>
My hole it is
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
"perhaps the FA should thank Roy Keane for bringing these issues (attempting to injure a fellow professional) within the game to the fore. "
Have you ever heard such an idiotic claim in all your life?

Employ the Catagorical Imperative (Kant):
what if all players acted and behaved like Roy Keane? Would the game be better or worse for it?

Disclaimer:
For me, he'll always be defined by this WC and him bottling.</strong><hr></blockquote>

What garbage ! I think Immanuel Kant would have preferred the categorical as opposed to the catagorical imperative. By the way who did Kant play for ?

Categoricalcategorical
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maybe he actually wrote the stuff so that people would make a fuss about it and then people would actually BUY THE BOOK. :cool:
 
Look, while nobody can argue that Keane is a hard individual with very fixe idea's on how things should be and shouldn't be, there are some issues that now come up which , to be honest, bring the game, Keane and his team into a bit of disrepute.

1) What happened in the World Cup? Depending on who you believe, there are differnent versions, one for everyone! I still think that, as captain, Keane should have had a bit more self restraint, even if Mcarthy did what was said, Keanes comments show that HE KNEW that Mcarthy was trying to bait him. A national captain should be willing to hold back, fight another day for the good of his country and team.

2) Look, footy is a contact sport, and yes, people will get hurt, and yes, occasionally the blood will rush to the head and we see a reckless challenge. But never before has a footballer admitted to deliberattely trying to injure a fellow profesional in a bid for revenge. Now, I am sure that nobody woill disagree that the original attempt while Haaland was a Leeds player was wrong, and that although Haaland reacted badly, remember that Keane had just tried to break his leg. Then Keane admits to trying to gain revenge, but revenge from what? Keane is supposed to be a role model, is this really what we want children to view sport as, a chance to gain revenge on someone by breaking their legs?

3) Keane is captain and one of the best paid players at Man Utd. yet he admits to playing hung over and various other incidents like that like they really are nothing. Once again, what kind of an example?

4) Lastly, while he is expected to be honest in his assesment of people who he has played with and for, it would seem that Keane has been a bit selective as to who he critisises and who he doesn't. Now I am the first to say that Footballers, especially captains, should never critisise teamates in print. Butthey should also not be conveniently leaving people out. this is the reason why biographies should be left for when the playing days are over. While Keane is being honest at times, so was Stam and look where it got him.

To end of, Do I think that Keane deserves a life ban? Absoloutely not! However, he should be reprimanded by his club, and at least punished in some way by the FA, if only to demonstrate to youngsters that players are not beyond the law!
 
Nobody, other than the author, the publisher and a few others have actually read Keane’s book so why the rush to judgment? Why not wait until we know what he ACTUALLY said and the CONTEXT in which he said it?

Okay, on the face of it, it sounds pretty appalling:

'I waited until five minutes from the end. I f****** hit him hard. I think the ball was there. "Take that you c*** - and don't ever stand over me again sneering about faking injuries - and tell your pal Wetherall (David) there's some for him as well!"

But add some context:

I felt I had been humiliated by Haaland at Elland Road in 1997 but rather than put the whole affair behind me, as I should have, I became obsessed with the idea of getting even. The opportunity came during the derby game at Old Trafford in April, 2001. I waited until five minutes from the end. I f****** hit him hard. I think the ball was there. "Take that you c*** - and don't ever stand over me again sneering about faking injuries - and tell your pal Wetherall (David) there's some for him as well!”. When Haaland fell to the turf clutching his knee, I knew I had to go off. Instead of taking pleasure in Haaland’s misery, I suddenly felt sick and revolted by what I’d done. What had I been thinking? I’d deliberately sought to injure a fellow professional and for that there could be no excuse. I’ve never spoken to Haaland since that day but I know what I did was wrong and I deeply regret the entire incident.

Okay, this would still not excuse Keane’s conduct. He was wrong and I suspect that he more than anyone, probably knows it. Newspaper editors, being the repulsive , spineless, gobshites that they are, can always be relied upon to ignore the context in which something is said and print only the juicy, controversial bits. Nobody wants to read how contrite Keane is. Keane the unrepentant thug is a much more interesting story. Just remember that the larger context in which something is done or said is obviously meaningful and often mitigating. Loose talk about putting him on the transfer list, banning him for life, charging him with GBH etc. is just a little premature don’t you think?
 
Originally posted by Niall:
<strong>
keane.jpg

<a href="https://www.redcafe.net/2002-03/editorial.php3?id=77" target="_blank">Keane: Made of the write stuff?</a>
Roy Keane's newly published autobiography has sparked much controversy among supporters, pundits, players and staff at both Manchester United and other clubs. Has the United skipper gone too far? Said too much to the detriment of himself and the club? Mark Bain throws his thoughts on the issue into the melting pot...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Excellent Editorial
<img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" />
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by gvnrav005@uct:
<strong>Look, while nobody can argue that Keane is a hard individual with very fixe idea's on how things should be and shouldn't be, there are some issues that now come up which , to be honest, bring the game, Keane and his team into a bit of disrepute.

1) What happened in the World Cup? Depending on who you believe, there are differnent versions, one for everyone! I still think that, as captain, Keane should have had a bit more self restraint, even if Mcarthy did what was said, Keanes comments show that HE KNEW that Mcarthy was trying to bait him. A national captain should be willing to hold back, fight another day for the good of his country and team.

2) Look, footy is a contact sport, and yes, people will get hurt, and yes, occasionally the blood will rush to the head and we see a reckless challenge. But never before has a footballer admitted to deliberattely trying to injure a fellow profesional in a bid for revenge. Now, I am sure that nobody woill disagree that the original attempt while Haaland was a Leeds player was wrong, and that although Haaland reacted badly, remember that Keane had just tried to break his leg. Then Keane admits to trying to gain revenge, but revenge from what? Keane is supposed to be a role model, is this really what we want children to view sport as, a chance to gain revenge on someone by breaking their legs?

3) Keane is captain and one of the best paid players at Man Utd. yet he admits to playing hung over and various other incidents like that like they really are nothing. Once again, what kind of an example?

4) Lastly, while he is expected to be honest in his assesment of people who he has played with and for, it would seem that Keane has been a bit selective as to who he critisises and who he doesn't. Now I am the first to say that Footballers, especially captains, should never critisise teamates in print. Butthey should also not be conveniently leaving people out. this is the reason why biographies should be left for when the playing days are over. While Keane is being honest at times, so was Stam and look where it got him.

To end of, Do I think that Keane deserves a life ban? Absoloutely not! However, he should be reprimanded by his club, and at least punished in some way by the FA, if only to demonstrate to youngsters that players are not beyond the law!</strong><hr></blockquote>

I see more sense in this post than i do in keanes book or anyone backing him.

The most disgusting thing about the whole deal is not what he is writing but his reasons for writing which are financial. No way he would be writing this book if he wasnt getting a fat slice for doing it. Keane almost walked away from O.T and broke the wage structure in the process, now he is again putting his wallet before the club.
We can kid ourselves into thinking he 'just wants to get things off his chest' but at the end of the day he wants the money. And Dont say the truth hurts - everyone has a version of the truth, its all objective.

Its going to sound very hypocritical when were singing 'theres only one greedy bastard' at Alan Shearer while roys milking the football cow for all its worth....
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having said that though i would still pick him every single week.

its disapointing that he's chosen to blab publicly about things that would be better left alone, but at the end of the day his job is to play football and as long as he is doing that to the standards Man Utd expect he should continue being captain.

I dont agree with the timing of his book or his reasons for writing it but i would still cheer him on at old trafford.
 
Originally posted by jamesblonde:
<strong> For me, he'll always be defined by this WC and him bottling.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Glad you remember all the great performances Keane put in for United and Ireland. Glad to see you'll 'define' Keane around them. Asshole.
Click to expand...
 
Yeah,right.Keane writes a book for £1,000,000 and upsets all his fellow pros,rolexs,mansions,not pulling weight,etc.

Then he plays shite against a bunch of tossers from God knows where.

If we lose to that bunch again, the world will collapse around this Utd squad thats for sure.

Money,money,money. GREEDY FCUKERS
 
Originally posted by zippy:
<strong>The most disgusting thing about the whole deal is not what he is writing but his reasons for writing which are financial. No way he would be writing this book if he wasnt getting a fat slice for doing it. Keane almost walked away from O.T and broke the wage structure in the process, now he is again putting his wallet before the club.
We can kid ourselves into thinking he 'just wants to get things off his chest' but at the end of the day he wants the money. And Dont say the truth hurts - everyone has a version of the truth, its all objective.</strong><hr></blockquote>

:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by gvnrav005@uct:
<strong>Look, while nobody can argue that Keane is a hard individual with very fixe idea's on how things should be and shouldn't be, there are some issues that now come up which , to be honest, bring the game, Keane and his team into a bit of disrepute.

1) What happened in the World Cup? Depending on who you believe, there are differnent versions, one for everyone! I still think that, as captain, Keane should have had a bit more self restraint, even if Mcarthy did what was said, Keanes comments show that HE KNEW that Mcarthy was trying to bait him. A national captain should be willing to hold back, fight another day for the good of his country and team.

2) Look, footy is a contact sport, and yes, people will get hurt, and yes, occasionally the blood will rush to the head and we see a reckless challenge. But never before has a footballer admitted to deliberattely trying to injure a fellow profesional in a bid for revenge. Now, I am sure that nobody woill disagree that the original attempt while Haaland was a Leeds player was wrong, and that although Haaland reacted badly, remember that Keane had just tried to break his leg. Then Keane admits to trying to gain revenge, but revenge from what? Keane is supposed to be a role model, is this really what we want children to view sport as, a chance to gain revenge on someone by breaking their legs?

3) Keane is captain and one of the best paid players at Man Utd. yet he admits to playing hung over and various other incidents like that like they really are nothing. Once again, what kind of an example?

4) Lastly, while he is expected to be honest in his assesment of people who he has played with and for, it would seem that Keane has been a bit selective as to who he critisises and who he doesn't. Now I am the first to say that Footballers, especially captains, should never critisise teamates in print. Butthey should also not be conveniently leaving people out. this is the reason why biographies should be left for when the playing days are over. While Keane is being honest at times, so was Stam and look where it got him.

To end of, Do I think that Keane deserves a life ban? Absoloutely not! However, he should be reprimanded by his club, and at least punished in some way by the FA, if only to demonstrate to youngsters that players are not beyond the law!</strong><hr></blockquote>


I disagree with so much of this I don't know where to start. I'm afraid its mis-informed and ill-judged. In summary my problems with each of your points are as follows:

1. What happened at the WC has been well documented and most people would accept that there is blame to be taken on both sides. I don't see how Keane's relationship with the Ireland can bring Keane and his club into disrepute. If anything, Keane's criticism of McCarthy illustrate just how professionally United prepare for games relative to the FAI.

2. The Haaland tackle was wrong and Keane admits that but you seem to be suggesting that Keane is gloating about that tackle and about his attempted revenge. Have you read the book? Do you know exactly what Keane said about the tackle? Another section of the book details how Keane was so upset at losing his cool with Shearer last year that he questioned his own ability to play for United. So surely this is an indication that this book will be an insight into Keane that we haven't seen before. I haven't read it but the Haaland thing could very well express Keane's remorse for that behaviour. But you don't seem to think so, I don't know how you've come to the conclusions you've come and I don't know where you got the broken legs bit.

3. Yep. He's captain. Yep. He played hung over. And now he's admitting all of that. Sound familiar? Tony Adams anyone? Surely this is further evidence of the book being an attempt to express remorse and regret. And as far as setting examples go, Keane recognised he had a problem with the booze and admits in the book that he has given up drinking. Now that could be a great example to all of us, face your weaknesses and do something about them.

4. He's selective in the people he criticises. Whats wrong with that? Do you want him to criticise everyone? Don't really see the argument here.

Fair play to you for at least writing something on the editorial that you have put a bit of thought into gvnrav005@uct. I deliberately decided to take time out to reply to your post because you didn't just write "Keane is a dick" so something to that effect.

Mark Bain's editorial is great as far as I'm concerned and you should re-read it.
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Originally posted by Waz:
<strong>Yeah,right.Keane writes a book for £1,000,000 and upsets all his fellow pros,rolexs,mansions,not pulling weight,etc.

Then he plays shite against a bunch of tossers from God knows where.

If we lose to that bunch again, the world will collapse around this Utd squad thats for sure.

Money,money,money. GREEDY FCUKERS</strong><hr></blockquote>

And if we lose to them it will be Roy Keane's fault?
Click to expand...
 
Captains lead by example,no?

How about taking a swing at the former England Capt held back by the England Capt.

Trying to break a footballers leg.

Verbally assaulting a ref followed by the rest of the team.

Who would you have as Captain Keane or Beckham?
 
Originally posted by Waz:
<strong>Captains lead by example,no?

How about taking a swing at the former England Capt held back by the England Capt.

Trying to break a footballers leg.

Verbally assaulting a ref followed by the rest of the team.

Who would you have as Captain Keane or Beckham?</strong><hr></blockquote>

This whole discussion has become a bit fruitless. As far as I am concerned, as a United supporter, I am only concerned with what's good for United. Roy Keane is an inspirational captain and our best player by quite some margin - certainly in terms of consistencey, endeavour and effectiveness. He most certainly should continue as captain and as I said before, if the book has served to get things off his chest, then great. He still is a great player and captain and I don't think United fans should be concerned with anything else quite frankly.
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I love Keano but I feel he´s over the top this time. 1: You should never try to hurt someone on purpose even though he´s a siddy-player 2 You should never critisice your´e teammates in public. Keano has been our best player ever since he arrived at OT but he´ll never be another ROBBO and if someone had a right to critisice his teammates it was ROBBO but he never did and Keano should learn from him
 
Originally posted by OT:
<strong>I love Keano but I feel he´s over the top this time. 1: You should never try to hurt someone on purpose even though he´s a siddy-player 2 You should never critisice your´e teammates in public. Keano has been our best player ever since he arrived at OT but he´ll never be another ROBBO and if someone had a right to critisice his teammates it was ROBBO but he never did and Keano should learn from him</strong><hr></blockquote>

exactly, Robbo was fecking brilliant and would have won a lot more had he had better players around him, its a team game, keane has benefited from having some of the best players in the world around him. Bryan Robson liked a beer or two but didnt stand up and tell the whole world about it. Or critizise his team mates.

Many people think its roy keanes job to keep the team 'honest' but the truth is its starting to stink a bit. If i was a player i would find it irratating to have some other player yelling at me, who's putting out shite in the media that could have been aimed at me (rolexes etc).

I believe in free speach and if ANY player wants to write a book they can, but the timing for this one is really off.
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Originally posted by Waz:
<strong>Captains lead by example,no?

How about taking a swing at the former England Capt held back by the England Capt.

Trying to break a footballers leg.

Verbally assaulting a ref followed by the rest of the team.

Who would you have as Captain Keane or Beckham?</strong><hr></blockquote>

You clearly aren't a Manchester United Supporter, every post of yours is nothing but at an attack on the club or stupid comments like Becks shoudld be Captain and not Keane.

Captains Lead by Example and on the pitch is were Keane is the Leader, His presence in every game is vital, Today's game is another example. Rallying the troops when there heads are down, making sure they have the hunger and show the desire for the full 90mins.

No disrespect to Beckham, but i can't see him marshalling the troops when we are 3-0 down, i can't see him leading the team to hard fought 1-0 victories and even 1-1 draws when they are needed. He might be able to produce excellent individual skill to bring us back but to lead the team is a different story.
I wonder who was the Captain when we won the Treble ???, his passion for success like SAF is still there. While some seem to always reflect on that season he wants to look forward.

Keane is probably the best Captain of any Club or Country in the world. Anyone who has supported MAnchester United long enough, will know and appreciate his Value to the squad. During the 80's when Robbo was in charge, we were a good side but trophies were hard to come by, Keane wants his troops to always be on that Edge were they know that there is no room for failure, this is essential to keep us winning trophies and not become complacent. He will definetly be captain for at least the next 3-4 years.

<img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" />
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Originally posted by zippy:
<strong>

exactly, Robbo was fecking brilliant and would have won a lot more had he had better players around him, its a team game, keane has benefited from having some of the best players in the world around him. Bryan Robson liked a beer or two but didnt stand up and tell the whole world about it. Or critizise his team mates.

Many people think its roy keanes job to keep the team 'honest' but the truth is its starting to stink a bit. If i was a player i would find it irratating to have some other player yelling at me, who's putting out shite in the media that could have been aimed at me (rolexes etc).

I believe in free speach and if ANY player wants to write a book they can, but the timing for this one is really off.</strong><hr></blockquote>

What a load of shit !!!!!

Robbo was brilliant but as you said he didn't win much , maybe it was something that he didn't do ?. By the way KEANE IS one of the best players and Captains in the world , and would walk into any World XI or club's starting line up. You underestimate the players, they are men and not babies , they know what KEANE means, they know whats expected from them. Perfect timing as many people have stated cos this makes it Manchester United against the rest.

By the way, HOW did you find Keane's performance today ??
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Originally posted by Red_For_Life:
<strong>You underestimate the players, they are men and not babies , they know what KEANE means, they know whats expected from them.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well in that case, it would be nice if some of them would rally around their captain. The fact that they haven't makes me think that the rumours of a schism in the dressing room are not totally unfounded.
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Red_For_Life:

I am a United supporter,have been all my life.Like it has been said here before if Robbo had the players round him we would have won more.
You say Keane would walk into any World XI than how come he got sent home from the World Cup and couldn`t play in the Irish team!!I`ll tell you why his mouth,he doesn`t know when to stop.
Another example of Beckhams future role came after the farce in Hungary,all the supporters at the airport were giving the players shit,and it was Beckham who went over and spoke to them NOT KEANE.
Keane did Captain Utd in the treble year but Beckham took center stage in the final.Where was Keane on this very important nightO HE WAS BANNED FOR COLLECTING YELLOW CARDS.
Sometimes you need the calm and sedate methods to work i.e Brazil and France.The days of hacking players over and swinging punches at ex-england captains are gone,teams are really struggling when you are down to 10 men.Vieria has really calmed down now and look what happened to them.
The days are gone when Utd could get away with rash tackles and challenges,referees are standing up and being counted now.

Come on Fergie make Beckham Captain.
 
I think Becks would make a great United captain but never will as long as SAF manages the club. Lets be frank, no bloke who likes putting on his wife's knickers will ever captain an Alex Ferguson side - simple as that.
 
Originally posted by SOCALRED:
<strong>Great article,Great debate,nothing to add,still thinking,Bravo lads ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

aye, this is the sort of topic that helps sell books! were all doing roy proud here!... ;)
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It is well documented that Roy Keane is a professional footballer who is respected by his fellow professionals in the footballing fraternity. This is a classic case where everyone appears to be jumping on the band wagon regarding manchester united. Roy Keane has given an honest assessment of the life of any footballer. Unfortunately certain elements are intent on sowing discord amongst the ranks of players and fans alike.

Roy Keane must be allowed to play football after all this is what he gets paid to do.
 
Roy Keane must be allowed to play football after all this is what he gets paid to do.

Agreed Nathan,do you say the same about Haaland?
What if Keane broke his knee in to bits he wouldn`t be able to walk nevermind football.Thats not playing football thats madness.

Also throwing punches at players for winding you up(oldest trick in the book)not good for the player,the team and the supporters but good for the other team,cus they are fcuking laughing at us.
 
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