RedCafe Cricket Draft SF Interval Level vs MightbeRight

Who will win based on players in their prime, team tactics and balance?


  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .

KM

I’m afraid I just blue myself
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
49,917
IL's write up
Interval Level - Akram, S. Mushtaq, Chanderpaul, Watson, Gul, Brendan McCullum, Gambhir, Robin Smith, Jimmy Adams, Cork, Lehmann, Gurusinha, Ponting, Donald


IL XI
Gautam Gambhir:
3712 runs at 45.26. 9 hundreds, 19 fifties. Test player of the year 2008.

Shane Watson:
2328 runs at 37. 2 hundreds, 18 fifties. 59 wickets at 29. Supremely talented.

Ricky Ponting ©
13346 runs at 53. 41 hundreds and 62 fifties. One of the great batsmen of this era. Through 2000-09 he was scoring well over 60 average.

Jimmy Adams
3012 runs at 41 with 6 hundreds and 14 fifties. Average misleading; much better for the first part of his career of 30 matches or so where he had an average of close to 60. Grafter

Shiv Chanderpaul
10342 runs at 50. 25 hundreds and 61 fifties. Grafter. Try and get him out please.

Darren Lehmann
1800 runs at 45. 5 hundreds and 10 fifties in a short career of 27 matches. Flamboyant.

Brendon McCullum (WK)
3900 runs at 36. Average as a no 7 is 40. 6 hundreds and 23 fifties. Can play with tail enders.

Wasim Akram
414 wickets at 24. 2900 runs at 23. Top score of 257. Can swing the ball either way. Control. Partnership breaker. Thinking bowler.

Dominic Cork
131 wickets at 29. Out and out swing bowler. Difficult to handle. Batting average of 18 with 3 fifties. Tail wagger

Saqlain Mushtaq
208 wickets at 29. Never did his talent enough justice. On his day, unreadable and unplayable in all conditions. Batting of 15 with 1 hundred and 2 fifties. Tail Wagger

Allan Donald
330 wickets in 72 matches at 22. Do I need to say alot about him. Ferocious, quick and almost unplayable at times.

MBR's writeup

My write-up.

A.Cook - The boy wonder. Perhaps already the best batsman England has ever produced, perhaps he more than anybody has been the spearhead of England's recent golden era.

C.Gayle - Gayle force's impact on the West Indies test side should not be underestimated. Averaging well over 50 in the last three years before his exile, the man has blossomed into an aggressive and effective test opening batsman who can produce big scores on a whim. Just recently he returned to the Windies test side with a 200+ runs performance. Also a very useful spinner.

S.Fleming (C) - Averaging over 40, it is hard to express enough how galvanizing an effect Fleming was over the years for a faltering New Zealand. According to Shane Warne, "the best greatest captain he has ever seen." Not just a scorer of big runs, Fleming uses his superior cricketing brain to his advantage to eek out more wickets and less runs as a marshall on the field. With my bowling line-up already, opposing batsmen have nowhere to hide.

B.Lara – He’s smashed Australia, he’s smashed South Africa. He’s certainly smashed England, and he’s even smashed records that he smashed previously. A living legend of cricket.

J. Kallis - The jewel of South Africa. How many innings has this man glued together? Averaging over 57 with the bat and 32 with the ball, this man will go down as one of the all time greats - but you don't need me to tell you that.

A.Prince - One of the South Africa's premier batsmen of the 2000s, Prince has smashed centuries against the heavyweights of India, Australia and England. An average of 41.64 somewhat made to look worse due to an experiment as an opening batsman, his sturdiness and penchant for runs should not be underestimated. South Africa's first black captain for a reason.

M.Prior (wk) - Matty Prior, finally the wicketkeeper to replace Alec Stewart. A batting average of 43, Prior has turned England's quality batting order into a deep one. There's never any fear when Prior comes to the crease, as his 6 centuries and 22 50s in 55 matches attest to. He does not have a single weak spot against any test side, with notable innings scores for each one. His wicket keeping has also improved immeasurably; quite simply the best wicketkeeper today.

S.Pollock - What can you say about this man? A zipping seamer who could be a menace with the bat, taking the DNA of both his Father and Uncle to become one of the best all-rounders to ever grace the game. A bowling average of 23, he would have made any side in the world in his prime if even he were just pure bowler. Deadly accurate, affording no breathing space to the most refined of batsmen. An average of 32 with the bat, he's another player for your bowlers to huff and puff with against my deep batting order.

G.Swann - Burst onto the scene in late 2008 by taking two test wickets in one over in India, giving them a taste of their own medicine. Has gone on to take 188 wickets since then, and he hasn't even been in the game for four years. Averaging 29 with the ball, his economy rate is just as much a boon as his destructive innings, compiling an extraordinary hitlist in Sri Lanka earlier this year. Best in the game and an average of 22 with the bat as my number 9!

S.Akhtar - To face Shoaib, the fastest bowler alive, must be a frightening experience. Only a career marred in controversy and lack of fitness has us reluctant to elevate him to the pantheon of all time greats. But the speed demon took 170 odd wickets in just 46 tests, culminating in an ever thrilling but ever too short career. Striiiiiiiiiike.

C.Ambrose - "Curtly talk to no man." He lets the ball do the talking. There isn't a better fast bowler in the draft, truly. A mammoth of a man with his penchant for bounce. And when some of the pace left him later in his career, his intelligent seaming allowed no decline to his bowling. His average? Under 21. But it hardly needs to be said, given his legend and even his ghost as the last great pacer that haunts the current West Indies side.

Twelfth men - J. Rhodes, C. McMillan

Matchup analysis.

Interval Level has a good team. It’s balanced, and it’s effective. But with all due respect, I think I am at least slightly better than him in all departments. I’d favour Cook and Gayle to stay around for longer than Gambhir and Watson, and what was one of my weaknesses has turned into one of my biggest strengths – the middle order. Kallis and Lara are the centre pieces of which Fleming, Prince, and especially Prior would ably support them. Chanderpaul and Ponting are brilliant, but Shiv isn’t quite as good as Lara or Kallis in my humble opinion and their back-ups of Lehmann, Adams and McCullum fail to inspire as much as mine do. I’ve also got Pollock and Swann to make my batting ridiculously deep and they are far better 8s and 9s than Akram and Cork respectively.

IL’s bowling is dangerous with the addition of Donald. Him, Akram and Mushtaq are quite balanced against my Ambrose, Pollock and Swann – although I maintain Ambrose is, with McGrath, the best bowler in the draft. Still, the difference definitely becomes stark when we get down to the 4th and 5th options. It’s Akhtar over Cork any day, and Kallis over Watson as the 5th bowler is obvious.

I know it’s a bit crude comparing like for like – anything can happen on the day – but overall I believe that more often than not, my team would beat Interval Level’s.
 
I will vote on this later but I've decided my vote already. To me there's a clear winner here over a 5 match test series.
 
Akram + Donald vs. Pollock + Amborse

mmmmm Ambrose is my fav. bowler of that lot but I think Akram + Donald edges this one

Also Saqlain > Swann for me.

On the flip side ... Kallis > Watson and Akhtar > Cork

But still IL slightly edges the bowling IMO

Batting wise .. Lara + Kallis... jeez...IL has Pointing and Chnaderpaul.. If I had to rate all 4 batsmen it would go like this..
Lara ...Pointing..Kalis...Chanderpaul

Lower order wise also I prefer MBR.... Pollock at no. 8 is too good.. IL's not bad as well but MBR edges it.

Opening wise... again close..ish..

Overall MBR defo has the batting...
 
I’d favour Cook and Gayle to stay around for longer than Gambhir and Watson
Understandably - However, Gambhir is of the same level of Gayle in tests if you notice their careers. Watson is a talented player but behind Cook, admittedly. But the difference isn't massive. I'd say your openers definitely shade mine.

and what was one of my weaknesses has turned into one of my biggest strengths – the middle order. Kallis and Lara are the centre pieces of which Fleming, Prince, and especially Prior would ably support them. Chanderpaul and Ponting are brilliant, but Shiv isn’t quite as good as Lara or Kallis in my humble opinion and their back-ups of Lehmann, Adams and McCullum fail to inspire as much as mine do.
I have a big issue of how much you're underrating that middle order of mine. Kallis+Lara maybe marginally better than Ponting and Chanderpaul. Not in term of performances but only because Lara has a massive oomph factor which you cannot ignore.You say that Chanderpaul isn't as good as these 3? He's played in a largely shit batting side and really played out of his skin for years now. He doesn't have the swashbuckling style and panache of other top batsmen; hell you'd probably hate watching him bat as do I. But you cannot simply just brush him off. He is as much of a Tier I batsman of this era as Kallis is.

And how do Fleming, Prince and Prior inspire more confidence than my 3? I'd say McCullum is as good as Prior. Lehmann equivalent if not marginally better than Prince and Adams at his peak was very difficult to get out and had an average of 60+.

With all due respect, MBR, I just tend to disagree with you on this. :)


I’ve also got Pollock and Swann to make my batting ridiculously deep and they are far better 8s and 9s than Akram and Cork respectively.
Erm... Swann has 4 fifties in 55 innings while Cork has 3 in 56. I'm not saying Cork is a better batsman. I'm saying their roles as night watchmen/ lower order batsman, they'd be similar.
IL’s bowling is dangerous with the addition of Donald. Him, Akram and Mushtaq are quite balanced against my Ambrose, Pollock and Swann – although I maintain Ambrose is, with McGrath, the best bowler in the draft. Still, the difference definitely becomes stark when we get down to the 4th and 5th options. It’s Akhtar over Cork any day, and Kallis over Watson as the 5th bowler is obvious.
Okay. another issue here. Let's go into how you can call your bowling better when my 3 strike bowlers are significantly better than yours. Considering Akram spent majority of his career toiling on sub continental wickets while Ambrose during the 90s on fast bouncy west indian wickets, I'd say the difference is non existant. Their styles were different. Ambrose was more suited to bouncy wickets whereas Akram to more slower/ swingy conditions. Either ways, you cannot just claim Ambrose was better.

Allan Donald over Shaun Pollock is another one which is a massive difference. Atleast in my mind, Swann is nowhere close to what Saqlain was at his peak. In fact when I look at your lower batting order of Prior, Prince and Pollock vs the guile of Saqlain, I think they stand no chance. Bar Prior, who is okay, I don't recollect either being too good vs top quality spin. (I can be corrected here, I'm recollecting from memory)

Yes, your 4th and 5 bowlers are better. But they're 4th and 5th bowlers who don't nearly compensate for your top 3 bowlers.

Lastly, a word about Shaun Pollock. I love the guy. He is one of the most genuine blokes in the game. But I'll have to point out that his batting wasn't all that great until the latter half of his career. However, along with that his bowling average took a beating once his batting improved. You can't really count him in both places.


Good game, MBR :) Best of luck to you.
 
Good point about Pollock .. IL .. can you produce some stats to illustrate your point?

Same happened with Kallis a bit IMO..
 
I'm not brushing Chanderpaul off by any means, but I think Lara and Kallis edge it over him and Ponting.

Hmm ... you take the difference of pitch for Ambrose vs Akram, but what about those nice dry sub-continent pitches for Mushtaq when you're comparing him to Swann? They both have similar averages too, while Swann has played more matches. I don't really see how Donald and Pollock is a massive difference, either. Pollock can bat which to my mind makes him a far more useful player - and I know you mention that it got worse, but we're judging at players peaks!

I think Akhtar and Kallis do compensate considerably when our top 3 are so tightly matched. Anyway you cut it - your top three is better than mine, mine is better than yours - I think those two can tip it in my favour. Akhtar was an utter monster at his peak, which we're judging on - imagine him whacking in a close-to-100mph over after facing my Ambrose and Pollock?

And I have to thoroughly disagree with you about McCullum. I think Prior is in a different league, Lehmann only played 27 tests which elevates Prince above him in my book. Adams is good but I'd take Fleming as he was such a good captain and a shining light in a shit side.

And good luck to you too mate!
 
My legendary Excel cutouts.
Pollock.png
 
I'm not brushing Chanderpaul off by any means, but I think Lara and Kallis edge it over him and Ponting.

They do. Only because Lara has the oomph factor. Ponting is one of the best batsman to ever play if you ask me. Sadly Lara is that plus the unpredictability factor of a pure genius. On their peaks though, quite similar. Ponting has better consistency. I rate Lara highly but if you took a poll, I bet most would say both are equally good.

Chanderpaul, is as good as Kallis. And I'll say this, quite more preferably at no 5 than Kallis.

Hmm ... you take the difference of pitch for Ambrose vs Akram, but what about those nice dry sub-continent pitches for Mushtaq when you're comparing him to Swann? They both have similar averages too, while Swann has played more matches. I don't really see how Donald and Pollock is a massive difference, either. Pollock can bat which to my mind makes him a far more useful player - and I know you mention that it got worse, but we're judging at players peaks!

But when you're discussing bowling, I'd say Donald+Akram (:drool::drool:) is way better than Ambrose and Pollock. Not only in terms of the averages they offer but in terms of the way they complement each other. I'm not arguing that Pollock isn't a better batsman at all.

Swann, whichever way you package it, is not of the same class as Saqlain. I bet you, if you take out the average vs India or in India, you'll see the difference. Saqlain at his pomp was unplayable. He had the doosra and the leg spinner which he mixed up. Swann just isn't all that. Just didn't have his head screwed on right. Oh and he has 1 hundred and a couple of fifties too. In case you plan to come at me from that angle.


I think Akhtar and Kallis do compensate considerably when our top 3 are so tightly matched. Anyway you cut it - your top three is better than mine, mine is better than yours - I think those two can tip it in my favour. Akhtar was an utter monster at his peak, which we're judging on - imagine him whacking in a close-to-100mph over after facing my Ambrose and Pollock?

Yes. I've admitted your 4th and 5th bowler are better than mine. Watson has an average of below 30 so he clearly isn't a mug. As is Cork. You talk as if they're just part timers. On the whole I think my bowling is 1 notch higher than yours.

And I have to thoroughly disagree with you about McCullum. I think Prior is in a different league, Lehmann only played 27 tests which elevates Prince above him in my book. Adams is good but I'd take Fleming as he was such a good captain and a shining light in a shit side.

Fleming was a good captain? So what? Why're you mixing issues here?


And I would just say that Fleming, Prince, Pollock were never that comfortable against spin. I think this is the clinching factor. Your batting is marginally better, half a notch. My bowling is better, a notch or half. But your batsmen would struggle against quality spin.

Saqlain could run through lower orders.


And good luck to you too mate!


Here!
 
Donald and Akram arent better when discussing averages. Ambrose has something like 20, and Pollock 23. doesnt Akram have 24 and donald 22? Its splitting hairs really. Also, bounce of Ambrosr, seam of Pollock, speed demon akhtar, swing of Kallis...that really is a fuller compliment of bowling.
 
I'm not going to vote but this is fecking tight. Crappy did a decent summary so I won't do it all again.

I'll just say Akram and Donald is just the ultimate bowling combination made in heaven (or maybe hell). Left arm-right arm, swing-seam, guile-overpowering pace.

Delicious.
 
I've voted MBR and will give reasons later. Also, like I said this was clear cut for me (IMO) as soon as I saw the line ups.
 
Even if his bowling is marginally weaker, MBR has an all round better line up.
 
Sorry IL, but MBR's lineup is better.
 
There is no way this should be this lopsided. I'm glad that some are saying it is my Lara making the difference though. :lol:

Going for IL - the margins are fine, but both teams are very damn good. Won't make a difference either way looking at the votes though.
 
Not only does MBR have Kallis and Lara, he's got 2 top, top openers. Gayle can be ridiculously good on his day, and Cook is well on his way to being an all time great
 
So final will be MBR vs RI then.. think MBR is favourite but we shall see how it goes..

Also who will MB pick.. guess it will be between Akram and Pointing...
 
Ponting is the obvious choice (a 3,4,5 of him, Kallis and Lara would be immense). However if he backs his current batting and picks Akram...well not many line ups will last a trio of Akram, Pollock and Ambrose.
 
It comes down to the difference between Pointing and Fleming/Prince, and, difference between Akram and Akhtar I suppose.
 
Well if I'm not tempting fate ... good game IL, I thought it would be closer and more votes would come your way. I guess I've been lucky stocking on one of the best all-rounders and one of the best batsmen ever.

I think Ponting is the wise choice. Akhtar was brilliant at his (short) peak, even matching the greats for a spell. Whereas Prince and Fleming were very good but never great. I think I'll keep Fleming as he is vastly experienced, a good captain and stood out in a crap side.

Akram is so very, very tempting though. I'd sooner ditch Prince than Akhtar if I was going to go for them, which would be ridiculous but kinda fun too - Ambrose, Pollock, Akram, Akhtar, Swann and Kallis? It would probably make Kallis redundant, but still. Ponting is calling for me ...
 
This match wasn't as 'close' as some put it here. To me this was clear cut.

MBR has a superior batting line up and a good enough attack to get out the likes of Gambhir, Watson and Adams. Even though IL had a better attack, there's not that big a difference between Donald + Akram and Ambrose + Pollock as their is a big difference when you compare Cook, Gayle, Fleming, Lara, Kallis >>> Gambhir, Watson, Ponting, Adams, Chanderpaul.

That's what clinched it for me.
 
There is no way this should be this lopsided. I'm glad that some are saying it is my Lara making the difference though. :lol:

Going for IL - the margins are fine, but both teams are very damn good. Won't make a difference either way looking at the votes though.

Thank you so much nm.

I can now admit openly, I had no chance of winning this. I would've voted for MBR myself. Pollock for me, made the difference. But obviously, it would've been alot closer than the voting suggests.

All you other guys suck. May you all burn in hell.
 
Can't believe some of you cnuts don't see the Saqlain>> Swann difference :p

Also, I can claim some victory for the best opening bowling combo in history.
Akram+Donald:drool::drool:
 
Thank you for a good game mbr. Hope you win. Drop Swann and pick Akram.

Its been great fun this. I have an idea for a draft which I'll consult a few people and start soon.
 
Thank you for a good game mbr. Hope you win. Drop Swann and pick Akram.

Its been great fun this. I have an idea for a draft which I'll consult a few people and start soon.

Cheers IL, the draft has been great for sure. I was thinking of one for a different sport but none seem quite as ideal or popular as football and cricket. I don't follow rugby too much and I was thinking the NFL but there wouldn't be enough interest or voters I don't think.
 
Well mbr congratulations. Awesome team now and i'll see you in the final.

Pity Interval...you had a great team and picked nicely along the way.

I screwed it up with the McCullum and Robin Smith and Gul picks. McCullum and Gul were early and never got me any votes. I could've picked a keeper late like Rashid Latif and probably gotten a similar response.

Plus, I fell prey to my own likes by picking Watson. He's one of my favourite cricketers and I wanted him in my team.

And for the last time, Akram and Donald :drool: Worth it.
 
I screwed it up with the McCullum and Robin Smith and Gul picks. McCullum and Gul were early and never got me any votes. I could've picked a keeper late like Rashid Latif and probably gotten a similar response.

Plus, I fell prey to my own likes by picking Watson. He's one of my favourite cricketers and I wanted him in my team.

And for the last time, Akram and Donald :drool: Worth it.

Watson was fine. Decent allrounder to have given the standard once the top 5 were taken. McCullum got you no votes though you're right...Gul wasn't worth picking so early.

Everyone makes sentimental mistakes though. You have to...the game wouldn't be fun otherwise. Sehwag over Hayden is mine it seems like.