RedCafe Cricket Draft- Omar vs ha_rooney

Who will win based on players in their prime, team tactics and balance?


  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .

KM

I’m afraid I just blue myself
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
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Someone please post this in the relevant thread when the poll opens for my game tomorrow. Thanks.

Team line-up:
Justin Langer – (average 45.27; 23 100’s) – a real battler as a batsman, Langer was an integral member of the successful Aussie side scoring over 7500 runs at Test level. He showed his ability to fight for runs when he was the leading Aussie run scorer in the 2005 ashes, where all batsman struggled with the swing movement, Langer showed he could get runs in the toughest of conditions, averaging 43 in that series. He will accumulate runs at his own pace and rarely will he give his wicket away by playing a false shot. Over his career Langer consistently proved he was a superb test opener and he will provide a good platform for my team to get started.

Marcus Trescothick – (average 43.79; 14 100’s) – an elegant batsman who combined aggression with genuine strokeplay and was a fixture at the top of England’s batting line up until depression got the better of him. Trescothick has the ability to take the initiative away from any bowling attack and score quick runs whilst never looking flustered in his batting and rarely giving his wicket away. An excellent slip fielder who would have scored a lot more runs had illness not stopped him, Trescothick will provide big runs for my team. A part-time spin option as well should he be needed.

Richie Richardson (c) – (average 44.39; 16 100’s) – coming in at the all important position of #3 is the destructively brilliant Richardson who will also captain my side. An outstanding batsman who was a world-class stroke player and had all the big shots in his armoury and a tendency to score big centuries once set, Richardson will provide fire-power and leadership to my team. An outstanding slip or gully fielder.

Ross Taylor – (average 43.52; 6 100’s) – Another aggressive player who has good technique, Taylor has already proven himself to be New Zealand’s best batsman and shown his ability to adapt to a leadership role and anchor the innings by averaging 57.70 since becoming Kiwi captain. He has shown more patience and temperament in recent years and will provide composure to my batting line-up. His fielding is also an asset to my team.

AB de Villiers – (average 49.16; 13 100’s) – An excellent batsman who possesses all the cricket shots, AB in recent years has emerged as an essential part of the successful SA side. Batting comes effortlessly to him and he demonstrated his ability to bat on all types of pitches by scoring first double-century by a South African against India and doing so in India. Averaging 63 since 2008 and the ability to bat anywhere in the order, AB will be the key batsman to my side and will score big runs against any type of bowler. He can also act as an emergency WK as well as being another brilliant fielder in my team.

HP Tillakaratne (WK) – (average 42.87; 11 100’s) – a gritty batsman who will provide solidity to the lower order and who will strengthen my batting line-up. An average of 47 when batting at the #6 position, he will provide resistance in my line-up should the top order fail and will be able to stick around with the tail. He may not have been an all-time great WK but he is competent enough to keep to my bowling attack and should not face any serious issues especially when he will be assisted by Warne, Trescothick and Richardson behind the stumps.

Abdul Razzaq – (batting average 28.61; 3 100’s; bowling average 36.94; 100 wickets) – he may be more successful at ODIs but since we are picking teams when players were at their peak, Razzaq will be a valuable all-rounder in my team who performed reasonably well in Tests as a lower-order option with the bat and alternative bowling option. He emerged as a genuine fast bowler who has now become a stump-to-stump option, Razzaq will provide control to my bowling attack whilst also having the ability to be a partnership breaker. His role is to solidify my bowling and batting and give me another option in both categories. A very aggressive batsman he can change the momentum of the game with a few big hits and will score some important runs down the order.

Chaminda Vaas – (bowling average 29.58; 355 wickets; batting average 24.32; 1 100) – an underrated player who carried Sri Lanka’s seam attack by himself and will be my opening bowler. A superb swing bowler, Vaas amassed over 350 wickets despite bowling on mostly flat tracks showing he is able to take wickets in the most difficult of conditions. Alongside the great Imran Khan, he is the only player to take 14 wickets in one match on the sub-continent. A master of swing bowling who will trouble both left and right handers with his ability to bowl both in and out swingers and a well disguised slower delivery, he will be offer my team the threat of picking up early wickets with the new ball and then returning when reverse swing comes into play and being as dangerous with the old ball. Averaging a useful 24 with the bat, he will add depth to my batting and score runs down the order.

Shane Warne – (bowling average 25.41; 708 wickets) – one of the greatest bowlers of all time, arguably the greatest spin bowler ever. Warne showed he got better with age by taking a record 96 wickets in 2005. Could bowl on all pitches and be as effective in all conditions, his ability to out-think the greatest batsman by mixing his deliveries up whilst never losing control made him the one of the most devastating bowlers ever. He will be the primary bowler in my team and with the supporting cast he is guaranteed to take many wickets. An excellent slip fielder as well as offering runs down the order ensuring my batting line up goes down to #9.

Stuart Clark – (bowling average 23.86; 94 wickets) – but for injury and the great Aussie bowling line-up, Clark would’ve been a mainstay in Aussie test cricket and potentially an all-time great. An incredible average and 94 wickets in just 24 matches, Clark has the ability to control the ball with superb line and length bowling whilst getting the ball to seam and cause havoc for batsman. He will open the bowling with Vaas and his role in the team will be to pick up key wickets, something which he has proven in his short career, whilst not giving away any runs and creating pressure so that the more penetrative Vaas or Warne can benefit from Clark’s superb accuracy.

Steven Finn – (bowling average 27.42; 56 wickets) – a wildcard pick to round off my bowling attack, Finn has shown he will be leading the English bowling attack in years to come. A genuine fast bowler who uses his height to trouble batsman, Finn also has the ability to swing the ball and pick up wickets when it matters most. Whilst Finn could be more expensive than my other bowlers, his pace and height will cause problems even for batsmen who have been set at the crease so he will offer the threat to break up partnerships and help changing the momentum of the game.

My bowling attack is well balanced with the 4 seamers who all offer a variety of pace, bounce, swing, reverse swing, seam, control and a bit of unpredictability. Vaas and Clark will open the bowling with Vaas offering swing and Clark offering line and length bowling with seam movement to trouble the batsman. Razzaq will be used as a stump to stump option to build pressure so that Warne will pick up the wickets when Omar’s batsmen become frustrated and resort to playing silly shots. Finn will offer pace and bounce which will unsettle the middle-order and with Vaas returning to utilise the reverse swing, his line-up will struggle to make sufficient runs.

Add to that attack the great Shane Warne who has the guile and intelligence to spin an entire side out by himself, I should have no trouble going through Omar’s batting line-up. Trescothick also provides a part-time spin option in the unlikely event I become desperate for wickets.

My batting is well balanced with some gritty players like Langer and Tillakaratne mixed together with more elegant stroke makers like Trescothick and Richardson. AB and Taylor in the middle order may not be to everyone’s liking but AB has become one of the best middle-order players in recent times and is as adept playing spin as he is fast bowling and looking at Omar’s attack I don’t see my batters facing many difficulties. Taylor too has shown he is maturing as a batsman and has all the shots necessary to be effective against Omar’s bowling attack.

Tillakaratne may not have been the best option available at WK but if push comes to shove I could always use AB as my WK and move Tillakaratne away from the gloves. I don’t envisage either player having any trouble with my bowlers and with Trescothick, Warne & Richardson making up my slip cordon I expect all edges behind to be taken.

Overall a balanced and deep batting line-up will ensure I have sufficient runs to put the game out of Omar’s reach. The variety and wicket-taking ability of my bowling attack makes my team the clear favourites to win.

Here you go lads.
 
Simon Katich - Over 4000 runs, an average of 45. He really is a very good opening batsmen, infact, he has an average of 50 while opening(while scoring just under 3000 runs). A very dependable opener.
Then he can also bowl. Has an average of 30, taking 20 wickets, with one 5 wicket haul. Althought his wickets are less, he can break partnerships when needed.

Shoaib Mohammad
- Another good opener. An average of just over 44, scoring more than 2500 runs. He will nicely compliment Katich while opening.

Nasser Hussain (C)
- He will be my captain and my dependable number 3 batsman. He has an average of 37 playing just under 100 tests. But he has played many match winning innings, in some very difficult circumstances. At number 3, his average is over 39. He is a much better bat than his average suggests.

Sachin Tendulkar - Hmmm, what should i say? Arguably the best batsman in test cricket. Average of 55, while rises to over 56 at number 4. He is pure class.
He can also bowl, another bowler who can come on to break partnerships here and there.

Neil Mckenzie - A more than decent batsman. An average of over 37. Has scored 5 centuries, and 15's half centuries. He can also open the batting, which is benefitial to him, if the new bowl is taken while he's there on the crease, he can play the new ball out.

Jacob Oram - He can bat, he can bowl, and he's pretty good at it. Has an average of over 36, scoring 5 centuries and 6 half centuries, while having an average of 33 with the bowl. He will be playing a role both as a batsman, and as a bowler, and he'll do just fine.

Mark Boucher (wk) - 555 dismissals in 147 Tests. One of the best keepers, in terms of pure wicketkeeping skill. Also dependable batsman down the order, has done well many times when his team needed him to for a win or to ensure a draw. Determined to stay at the crease. An average of 30, with 5 hundreds, and 35 fifties.

Mitchell Johnson - Another player who can bat, and bowl, quite nicely. A batting average of 21, with a century, and 6 fifties, and a bowling average of 31 taking 190 wickets. A good new bowl bowler, with his pace and swing.

Andrew Caddick - Taken over 230 wickets, with an average of under 30. Batting average of 10, with a highscore of 49*. He was a good bowler, and that shows in his stats.

Danish Kaneria - He's taken 261 wickets, with an average of 34. He could get bounce, and could also turn the ball significantly. I know his average is a bit on the higher side, but i don't mind him giving a few extra runs to take a wicket. Most wickets by any pakistani spin bowler, and fourth by any pakistani bowler.

Mohammad Asif - Now this man is class on the pitch. A very smart bowler, can swing the ball both ways, can bowl long spells, is tall, gets bounce, and most importantly, he can outthink the batsman. He's taken over 100 wickets with a bowling average of 23. He's played a bit less tests, but what he has done in those tests, is what defines him on the pitch. He will be my sother new bowl bowler. It was a shame he got involved in spot fixing, or else he could have been a real class bowler.

Now, batting is obviously my strenght here. My openers are very good, and will lay a solid platform for the middle order to build on. And my middle order will definitely not disappoint. I bat deep till number 8, playing to my advantage. My batsmen might not have the greatest of averages, but they can do better than their average suggests. Having Boucher as my keeper ensures no keeping blunders for me, and i will not miss any oppurtunity for a wicket behind the stumps. His bowlers are not very special, except for Warne. And i have Sachin in my squad, who would not have a big problem facing him. Also Razzaq's average has been over 40 against most teams, except for Srilanka, Bang, and WI, and his batting average is vastly helped by his average against Bang being 131. Also two of his bowlers in Clark and Finn, haven't played many tests, althought you can say that for Asif, he took over 100 wickets and was class. The thing here is, he has just those 5 bowlers to bowl session in, and session out. If say i get a partnership going and batsmen settled, he won't have a secret weapon type bowler. After a solid opening partnership, Sachin and Hussain should take the score higher, and Neil, Oram, Boucher get partnerships going here and there, and Johnson with them drag the score further, before my tail comes in.

My bowling is also around par, compared to him, except for Warne obvious, but let's be honest. Even if i had anyone else(say Swann, McGill), Warne would still be the best, and by a good margin, so can't do much here. My opening bowlers provide pace, swing, bounce, everything needed for an opening bowler. Johnson and Asif will bowl well, then Caddick will come in first change. Kaneria is my spin option, and he can give a few runs away to take wickets, i don't mind. Then ther'e's Oram also. If a partnership gets going, i can bring in Sachin and Katich to try and break it, or to give rest to my bowlers. They too can bowl and take wickets. Once i reach the tail, i won't have much trouble getting thorugh it. I know Warney and Vaas can bat, but against Asif, they shouldn't be long on the crease.

That said, i think this is real tight. Our bowling is around the same level, except for Warne. Let's say our fast bowling is around the same level. He's got some very good batters, while i've got the best one, along with some good ones to compliment him. Should be a close game. I'm happy his fast bowling is not very special, and that should help my batters.

Fun facts - Langer has been dismissed by Caddick 4 times(3rd most)
Ross Taylor has been dimissed by Johnson the most(5 times)
AB De Villers has been dismissed by Asif 4 times(2nd most)
Vaas has been dismissed by Oram 3 times(3rd most)

The word limit of 15000 was exceeded, that's why has to seperate it into different posts.

Well done to both for writing such detailed summaries.
 
Both seem to have gone for very similar strategies. I do feel omar missed a trick by not having a suitably excellent batsman slong with Sachin in the middle order. Hussain and McKenzie are good bats, but a Crowe, for example, might've added more. ha_rooney's side looks well settled, but there's a glaring problem in the wicketkeeper position. Keeping to Warne isn't an easy task by any means, and a part time keeper is pushing it a bit.

Another one to think over.
 
This is another tough one. Frankly I think both team have a lot of holes.

Sachin having Nasser, McKenzie, Oram for company in the middle order? meh. Bowling wise none of the names stick out.

ha's team's batting is pretty good. Very good and reliable opening pair, Ritchie and AB provide steel to the middle order. I personally don't rate Ross Taylor but his recent stats have been good. Tilakeratne is a very good no.6 batsmen to have but a poor keeper. He was also only the keeper in 11 tests. As a keeper his average also goes down to 31. This is a big sticking point for me. You can get away with par time keepers in ODIs but not tests. If not for this anomaly, I was talking myself into vote for ha's team but now I will have to ponder a bit more.
 
As Donadol says - similar teams. They've both overloaded the batting and not balanced the bowling as well.

I think i'm going to for harooney. Though he doesn't have a Tendulkar level player in his batting, I think it matches up to Omar's as unit. Bowling though, he clearly comes out ahead. Warne's support is pretty decent in Vaas and Clark. Asif has a ragtag bunch of 30ish averaging bowlers in support and he himself is not near Warne's level.

Harooney's main weakness is the wicketkeeper and i think he should use AB there instead of Tillekaratne who i seriously can't remember ever keeping (not in the mood to consult the Bible.) I'm not sure if AB's average dips while keeping but he seems much the more secure keeper especially in the current series. I haven't seen him make any serious goofups.
 
As Donadol says - similar teams. They've both overloaded the batting and not balanced the bowling as well.

I think i'm going to for harooney. Though he doesn't have a Tendulkar level player in his batting, I think it matches up to Omar's as unit. Bowling though, he clearly comes out ahead. Warne's support is pretty decent in Vaas and Clark. Asif has a ragtag bunch of 30ish averaging bowlers in support and he himself is not near Warne's level.

Harooney's main weakness is the wicketkeeper and i think he should use AB there instead of Tillekaratne who i seriously can't remember ever keeping (not in the mood to consult the Bible.) I'm not sure if AB's average dips while keeping but he seems much the more secure keeper especially in the current series. I haven't seen him make any serious goofups.
Even Vaas averages 30ish, and Finn's taken only 50 odd wickets. As i said, for me, only Warne is way ahead. Maybe i'm biased, but i think my fast bowling is better than his.

EDit - Even AB has kept only 5 matches. I don't see him getting out of his keeping trouble
 
Even Vaas averages 30ish, and Finn's taken only 50 odd wickets. As i said, for me, only Warne is way ahead. Maybe i'm biased, but i think my fast bowling is better than his.

Its close Omar. Asif, Caddick and Johnson Vs. Clark, Vaas and Finn. And that shouldn't be the case. Even if its better (and i'm not sure i agree), it needs to be miles better to counter the fact that Kaneria isn't fit to tie Warne's shoe laces.

So basically, his bowling as a unit is clearly better than yours and his batting as a unit is about the same level.
 
Its close Omar. Asif, Caddick and Johnson Vs. Clark, Vaas and Finn. And that shouldn't be the case. Even if its better (and i'm not sure i agree), it needs to be miles better to counter the fact that Kaneria isn't fit to tie Warne's shoe laces.

So basically, his bowling as a unit is clearly better than yours and his batting as a unit is about the same level.
It is important to take keeping into account otherwise I might also start playing Dravid as a keeper. As Donado said, keeping to Warne won't be easy. No use having great bowlers if your keeper is going to spill many a catches.
 
It is important to take keeping into account otherwise I might also start playing Dravid as a keeper. As Donado said, keeping to Warne won't be easy. No use having great bowlers if your keeper is going to spill many a catches.

I suppose i'm a little biased from watching AB do a pretty good job in the current series (though only highlights admittedly.) That said, you're right and keeping to Warne is different kettle of fish. You need to stand up to the stumps and have superb reflexes.

Food for thought.
 
Its close Omar. Asif, Caddick and Johnson Vs. Clark, Vaas and Finn. And that shouldn't be the case. Even if its better (and i'm not sure i agree), it needs to be miles better to counter the fact that Kaneria isn't fit to tie Warne's shoe laces.

So basically, his bowling as a unit is clearly better than yours and his batting as a unit is about the same level.
For me, my attack is better because of Finn. Also no matter whichever spinner i took, i would have had the problem against Warne, should it have been Swann, or Mcgill. Warne would have been miles better. So no point going there.
 
As I mentioned in the OP, if necessary I can always get AB to be WK. I don't see WKing to Warne being too much of an issue as he spun the ball so much and attacked the stumps. I'm quite sure the majority of his wickets that were caught behind ended up at slip (where I can position the excellent Trescothick or Richardson) rather than a slight edge to the WK.

As for bowling, Vaas' average may be high but you can't discount him taking 350+ wickets at Test level despite him basically carrying the SL seam attack himself. He never had the seam support that other players had but was still one of the great swing bowlers of his generation. Also, Omar is critical of Vaas' average yet he fails to mention Caddick's average is higher despite bowling in more seamer friendly conditions in his career and he also had an economy rate of 3.09 as opposed to Vaas' 2.68.

Furthermore, Vaas' high average is countered by Clark & Finn's low averages.

Asif and Clark cancel each other out imo. Vaas was a superior bowler to Caddick given his seam support and the conditions he had to bowl in and whilst Mitchell has taken more wickets than Finn, his average is 31.29 and a strike rate of 56.1 in comparison Finn who has an average of 27.42 and SR of 44.5. Just because Mitchell has more wickets doesn't make him the better bowler.
 
haroon, even AB has played only 5 games as a keeper, so it doesn't matter.

And the way i see it. Vaas is better than Johnson agreed. But for me, Asif is better than Clark here. Also Finn has just played 14 odd games and only 50 wickets, so that is what makes my fast bowling better than yours.
 
Why is Asif better than Clark? Similar bowlers, similar stats and both would've achieved more but for injury to Clark and had Asif not had drugs/cheating/prison problems. I don't see how Asif is superior.

And yes, Finn has fewer wickets in fewer games but that makes him a bad bowler? He has a role in my team to come on offer pace and bounce and pick up the odd wicket which he is more than capable of doing.
 
Finn has also taken 19 wickets against BAngladesh alone. I don't think Finn can be considered so good with just 13 odd games.

Well, for me Asif's played a game less, taken 12 more wickets, better strike rate, 6 fourwicket hauls, and 7 five wicket hauls and one 10wickets game, to Clark's 6 FourWH, and 2 FiveWH. Also i've seen Asif more, and he was really class.
 
Finn doesn't have to be so good, he has a role in my team which he is capable of performing and provided he gets 1-2 wickets he has done his job. Asif and Clark were the same type of bowler and as effective as each other so would cancel each other out imo.

Even if you think my seam attack may be weaker than yours, I have the trump card in Warne which makes all the difference and as complete a bowling attack mine wins with Warne leading the attack.
 
Finn doesn't have to be so good, he has a role in my team which he is capable of performing and provided he gets 1-2 wickets he has done his job. Asif and Clark were the same type of bowler and as effective as each other so would cancel each other out imo.

Even if you think my seam attack may be weaker than yours, I have the trump card in Warne which makes all the difference and as complete a bowling attack mine wins with Warne leading the attack.
Yes, an overall bowling attack would always win no matter which spinner i had. But then you lack a good keeper now, and that will also make a difference.
 
Yes, an overall bowling attack would always win no matter which spinner i had. But then you lack a good keeper now, and that will also make a difference.

:lol: we can argue all day.

I've already mentioned my stance on the WK situation. Neither AB or HP would have problems with the seamers and Warne was more likely to pick up a wicket caught at slip than WK due to the angle he bowled and the spin he got, I don't recall him getting many thin edges that went to the WK. The WK could be better but I don't see it being as big an issue.
 
How can we say that AB or HP won't have a problem keeping when they have been wicketkeeper in such low games? 11 games is enough to judge a keeper?

There have been many wickets by Warne caught by the keeper, faint edges, and those are the most difficult ones to catch. You can't we won't edge warne to the keeper, also there's stumpings. Then there are edges by the pace bowlers. I don't see how its not a big issue, not having a good experienced keeper. It's not like he's average and played 50 odd games, just 11 games, not enough.
 
Good debate guys. This is what the draft's about...nonsensical arguments about who's better in various pointless hypothetical scenarios. I'm enjoying it. I missed it...did try to bait Desert Eagle into a debate but he didn't seem interested in joining in.
 
How do we know all your wickets will not be LBW or bowled outright?

Taking AB as the WK, he has shown he can WK comfortably to seam bowlers, he is an exceptional fielder and will take most catches from the seamers. It's not like I'm having some useless plank take the gloves, AB is one of the best fielders who is showing his potential with the gloves in the england series.

The point I'm making about Warne is that it will be rare for him to get a caught behind to the WK, he is more likely to get an edge going to slip. If it was a bowler like Kumble then I could see a bigger problem with my choice of WK but with Warne it is not as big an issue as you are trying to make out. Of course a WK like Boucher would be more desirable but I don't see my team losing on the basis of not fielding a great WK.
 
Yeah i'd be willing to give you a pass in this round on the matter. It's likely to weigh against you when the margins get finer though (if you get there). Dropped catches and missed stumpings will start mattering a lot more in the later rounds.

I'm voting harooney.
 
How is Ab one of the best in 5 games? He's just wicket keeped 5 games. You can say in this draft, 5 games is never enough. Plus there will always be edges going to the keeper, and a keeper that sort will drop them. You can't deny it's not a problem.
 
Sorry, I meant to say he is one of the best fielders who has shown his potential as WK.
 
You can't have a keeper based on potential, especially in this kind of draft. If it worked on potential, there are so many players done wonderfully well in a few tests, but its a draft here, and it won't work like that.
 
But you're making it out as if I've put some oaf like Munaf Patel as WK. I've chosen one of the best, if not the best, fielder in world cricket to pick up the gloves and he is not going to let me down and he has done quite well so far in his limited career as WK.

It's not like he will drop everything that comes his way, he will have no issue with the seamers and as I've pointed out, Warne is more likely to get a catch at slip than WK and even then AB has the reflexes to react and make a catch.

To suggest my team has a good chance of losing because my WK is not an all-time great is an exaggeration. AB is competent with the gloves and with my attack that should be enough to see me win.
 
You can't just assume catches won't come to him. There's stumpings too. He's just played 5 games, and its never good enough in this draft. Its a fact you have a problem with your keeping position.
 
Catches will come to him and he will take a lot of them. You can't assume Boucher will catch everything, just like you can't assume AB will not catch everything.

I agree my WK situation could've been better but it is not as big a problem as you're making it out.
 
What? It's a draft, and boucher is the best pure keeper, and AB has just played 5 odd gamse, recently, and you're telling we can't assume boucher to catch everything, and AB to drop everything? Not everything, but most things. Boucher would catch almost everythign here. that's how the draft works.
 
Wait, did not you list Tilakeratane as your keeper?

Yes but I mentioned if that was a problem then I'd put AB as WK which is the case now.

The reason I'm using AB in my arguments about WK are simply because I've seen him play and I know he will not have as many issues at WK as Omar is trying to make out.
 
Tillakaratne has been unceremoniously shafted to third man.

Story of his life.
 
14% of Warne's dismissals were stumped or caught behind....

Richardson or Trescothick at slip I imagine?
 
You can't judge someone in 5 games haroon is what i'm telling. If there was a bowler with an average of 15 in 5 games, you can't really depend on him. Same case for the keeper.

Anyways, atleast i have one vote.
oh wait thats me ):
 
Sorry Omar, going with ha. In the End Warne just swings it enough to overcome the WK issue. I do agree with you that your pacers are better and one should not rely too much on someone like Finn but I think ha's batting is also better than yours.
 
Unsure who to vote for but leaning towards ha_Rooney. Other than Tendulkar and Katich, I don't like Omar's batting at all.
 
Vote Ha_rooney. Needed to have a quality batsman in your middle order, omar.
 
Voting ha_rooney. I agree with Donadol, omar missed a quality batsman along with Sachin in that middle order.
 
Harooney, I'd make Warne captain. I genuinely think he's the best captain Australia never had. While Richie wasn't bad, I don't remember him being anything exceptional as a captain either.