Raees/Invi vs Onenil/Anders - Tactical Draft

[Šjor Bepo]

Team Raees/Invictus

Philosophy/Ideology of Tactical set-up:

Harmonizing Law in a team that suits his abilities is tricky concept since he was a unique attacker at his peak - he would be wasted as a pure 9 because that wouldn't utilize the full extent of his comprehensive skillset, but he also wasn't a #10 in the classic sense of the term. Meanwhile, by limiting his industry off the ball, you could negate on of the most important facets of his game. His best would come as a hybrid second striker/inside forward where he has the remit to not only drop deeper to link up the play with trademark urgency, but also arrive in the box at will (since that was where he created the greatest statistical impact). His role in the team is close to his pomp in the mid '60s where Law won the Ballon D'Or for his exploits with United. It's not a remake of the United team from that period since replication is no fun, but a tactical evolution based on a simplistic 523 that will grant him unlimited freedom to influence the play from his favorite inside right/inside left position:


Credit: @Joga Bonito for the match compilation of the 1963 FA Cup Final.

In our opinion, the overall rugged composition of the team in a counter-attacking setup will bring out the best in Law - he will recede to get involved in the thick of things - which highlights his scrappy nature, he will benefit from goalkicks to Ceulemans deflected at Law, he will thrive off the runs of Asparuhov and conversely make dummy runs himself (a trademark of his), he will have the room to use his quickness at the edge of penalty area to ghost his markers, he has the wingbacks to gel with his prodigious leap. Plus, the aggressive mentality of the supporting cast (Chumpitaz, Briegel, Pirri, Stielike, Ceulemans, Asparuhov) is the perfect blend for a consummate team player like Law:

There was an aggression in his game which and to certain supporters, his brushes with authority made him even more popular. To them he was ‘The King’ and ‘The Lawman’.

Defensive line - Staggered.

Playing style - Fast, intense, direct counter-attacking football with an effort to get Law involved in every phase of the game - from defending to instigating counters to playmaking to scoring.

Creative Freedom - Unlimited freedom for Law, Ceuelemans will operate in the central attacking areas - his physical prowess, guile, intelligence in space and ability to drag markers will be the perfect complement to liberate Law. Pirri will reprise his peak Madrid role in midfield as a midfield general. And Chumpitaz + Amoros + Briegel will help transition from defense to attack at a brisk pace.

Closing down - Law will lead the charge in a 3 man attacker press with Asparuhov and Ceulemans up top - this is perfect because he was a proactive worker off the ball and had an innate urge to dispossess the opposition. The rest of the team is not going to press very aggressively - preferring the approach of inviting the attack, lulling the opposition with numbers in defense, and then countering on the break using Law with great precision.

Specialized roles - Burgnich as a man-marker and Pirri as a box-to-box midfielder to exploit his goalscoring prowess.


Central Player:

he goals came in every shape and colour; searing long-range shots, simple tap-ins, dynamic headers, flukey ricochets, cheeky flicks after mazy solo runs, acrobatic scissor-kicks.

"No other player," noted Sir Matt Busby, "scores as many miracle goals as Denis. He's the quickest-thinking player I've ever seen, seconds quicker than anyone else. He has the most tremendous acceleration, can leap to enormous heights, and is an impeccable passer of the ball."

My favourite player was Alfredo di Stefano, the great Real Madrid star. He could score goals, but he could also perform all over the pitch. That's the way I wanted to play. I liked to play inside-forward. But Matt felt differently and I wasn't happy. Of course, I was delighted to score a goal or two but, in that role, you could miss a lot of the game. I always wanted to be involved. - Denis Law

Here Law is in his elements as a forward, and will be playing off a striker (like he did with Sadler or Herd).


Striker - Asparuhov

Combination of target 9 ability (given his physique), positioning, and ruthless finishing to lead the line just ahead of Law.

Central Attacker - Ceulemans

Long ranging battering ram of an attacking midfielder/pseudo forward who combined the strength of an ox with the technique of stereo-typically diminutive players and the determination of a woodpecker - will unsettle the opposition defense, provide directness, and draw markers off Law with his movement and positional versatility as a forward.



That versatility will allow us to seamlessly switch around during transition and use Law to attack through both sides in tandem with Ceulemans:

Spoiler: Reconfiguration

Midfield duo - Pirri + Stielike

Talismanic box-to-box dynamo in Pirri to influence the game behind Law and facilitate the movement of the ball:

Spoiler

If there was a predecessor to Beckenbauer, I'm pretty sure he was born in a small town called Ceuta... his name was Jose Martinez, also known as Pirri.

He could be in the back of the field, and in a matter of seconds, he could be scoring a goal, specially thanks to his superb stamina. He made his debut in 1964, as Ferenc Puskás sub and from that day on, he'd be a leader inside Real's structure, a true captain.

His rather insignificant physique was a really tricky image to hide with the ferocious ways he was covering his area, a human wall protecting his team's fortress, although his main asset was his ability to join his team's attack so quick and effectively, without leaving his duties as the defensive reference he was.

He played with his heart for the White Team. Once, in a final against Chelsea with his arm on a sling, due to an arm injury, or even with his jaw broken, this proves his amazing tolerance to injuries of all kind. He stayed in Madrid for 16 years scoring the amazing (almost ridiculous for a defensive player) amount of 170 goals in 561 games.

In Real he stayed from the 1964-1965 to the 1979–1980 season, in which he won 1 European Cup, 10 League titles, 3 Copa Generalísimo and 1 Copa del Rey.

With NT, he was capped 41 times, making his debut against no less than Argentina in England 1966. Spain lost the game, but a 21 year old Pirri was the only one that could score against the South American giants. He also played in 1978 finals, when already aged 33.

He really was the soul of the famous Yé-yé Futbol team for Real Madrid, and epitomized the position.

Perfect deep midfielder for the setup in Stielike with his ability to disrupt the play and aid the transition from defense with his timely passes - winning the Premio Don Balón for 4 consecutive seasons (the most by any foreign player):

La Liga Foreign Player of the Year: 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982

Center Defensive Trio - Godín + Chumpitaz + Burgnich

Centerback: Godín - Complete central defender and the marshal of the best defense in the world for the last half-decade, though one who gets underrated by virtue of being a current player.

"Nothing thrills me less than playing against Atlético. They're so annoying and Godín is a nuisance; he's always there next to me, he never leaves me alone."
Luis Suárez, Barcelona and Uruguay forward

Sweeper: Chumpitaz - Probably the best South America has to offer after Figueroa and Passarella. El Capitán de America offers a potent mix of technique and ball-playing ability, coverage on both sides of the pitch - or vertically, leadership, and organisation ability on the field at the position. The perfect player in this pool to initiate transition from central defense .

The Rock: Burgnich - Robust, quick, determined defender who typified Catenaccio on the other side of Facchetti - THE perfect fit as the man-making half-fullback/half-centerback.

Together they form a nigh impenetrable wall - which will allow us to soak and counter with relative ease. In a sense, you could ask the question - would the defense even matter in building the team around an attacking player? In our opinion, it would - the more ease of mind the attackers have in the overall composition of the team, the more freely they can express themselves - especially in a team with high emphasis on counter-attack and low emphasis on possession.


Wingbacks: Briegel + Amoros

In the absence of the likes of Facchetti, Cafú, Brehme - this is the cream of the crop in the pool for the position in terms of proven ability to dominate the flank, and excelling in all phases of the game to round off the complete and aggressive nature of the team. Briegel was a machine on the left for West Germany as a wingback, and Amoros was inspired on the right hand side of the pitch for Carré Magique - even winning the Onze d'Argent behind Maradona in 1986.


Goalkeeper: Jürgen Croy - usually, not many pay attention to keepers, but Croy fits the setup perfectly given his excellent command of the penalty area, first-rate ball-handling skills, competence in the air and ability to quickly release it to start counters. Needs to be picked more often in drafts - some reckon he wasn't far from Zoff and Maier at his peak.

Team Onenil/Anders

Philosophy of Tactic

Bergkamp playing as a #10 in a wide 4-2-3-1 that operates asymmetrically and can shift between phases. This is NOT a pure remake tactic. Rather it is intended to incorporate elements from the three main sides that we enjoyed Bergkamp - Arsenal 97-00, Ajax 91-93 and Holland 1994 and 1998. Bergkamp himself will represent his 1997-2000 form. The tactic makes the most of Bergkamp by allowing him to focus on what he does best, breaking down defenses with his toolbox of passing and scoring. Surrounded by the movement, technique, intelligence and pace to maximize Bergkamp’s ability to read and control matches he will excel here.

Style - Fast Paced Attacking-Counter attacking / Overloading from midfield and WBs

Attack teams with incisive passing and unpredictable combinations of runs from all over the pitch. Hit teams on the counter when off balance with pace and technique. Conditional overloads at the opponents defence when crossing the halfway line, if Bergkamp gets the ball early. When he receives it high on the pitch he creates, looking for passing options. Crespo tries to break the offside trap making the most of his pacy runs, with Bergkamp and the wings creating space. Essien is the x-factor providing late runs to unbalance the defense. Maicon also can make unbalancing runs with Alexis able to track and cover if a counter. On occasion the wings may swap flanks or you might see Alexis springing Maicon on. By conditional I mean we aren’t just always bombing forward with 7 players at the same time.

High pressing off the ball in attacking zone (front three pressing, midfielders cutting passing lanes). Park and Alexis aggressively take the full backs while Crespo keeps the CBs occupied. Then dropping off to a less aggressive style with passive defenders pressing only in own half. It will be end to end football, very entertaining!

Defense

Defensive Line - moderately high defensive line. Control space when mf/att pressing high but quick to drop deep when opponents controls ball. Depending on circumstance team may drop back upon losing possession.

Marking - Zonal-marking

Off the ball - Defensive line will control the space, buying time for the rest of the team to get reorganized and press.

On the ball - One/two solid ball-playing defenders, moving the ball through the middle. Getting the ball to Carrick or directly to Bergkamp setting up for counter attack. Full backs provide additional means to move the ball up the pitch to mix things up.

Wingback/fullback - Evra or Maicon charging forward on overlaps at turns, the other stay back on defensive duty.


Midfield

Combine energy, technique and brains.

Two midfielders playing behind a 10, providing cover with Carrick staying central and Essien playing a Viera role.

Zonal marking

Off the ball - Carrick cutting passing lanes and Essien providing the pressure and energy

On the ball - Essien charging at will, Carrick staying behind for support and passing options. When the wingbacks makes runs, Carrick will drop very deep, allowing the width of our CBs to expand.


Attackers

Off the ball - Aggressive frontline, especially Park and Sanchez pressing the fullbacks and allowing no free time from the FBs

On the ball - Constant movement lurking the offside line. Fluidity and runs while Bergkamp orchestrates. ATTACKING THE SPACE...

Park - Provides energy, do dirty work.

Crespo - central runs towards goal, breaking offside-trap. Pressing defenders. Available for through balls or any sort of pass with spectacular goals.

Sanchez - diagonal runs towards goal, taking striker role on occasions to break the lines.


Player Roles

Gk (regular)

RB- Wing Back

CB- Sweeper / Ball playing defender

CB- Hard stopper with underrated class

LB- Complete Full Back

B2B- Energetic attacker to break lines and stamina to press in midfield all match

DLP- Deep lying playmaker

RW- Right Forward, Cuts inside to shoot, great work rate

ACM(playmaker) - Bergkamp

LW- Defensive Left Midfielder

ST- Fast,Technical Striker

Special Techniques

Spoiler: off the ball

Spoiler: on the ball

 

[Šjor Bepo]

• Draft matches would be decided based on who has crafted/built the more coherent and cohesive tactical set-up around his main star as opposed to who might win in a fantasy encounter. Hopefully, this paves way for interesting discussions on the set-ups themselves - delving deeper into the creation/evolution etc of said set-up - and the personnel fit.
  
• Voters are asked to consider the XIs featured as 2 separate teams not like a classic game of football, and to consider to what extent the manager has succeeded in building around his central figure. This is not a fantasy match but a comparison of 2 tactical attempts.

• Teams will be built and judged for best tactical fits rather then the quality of the team. First, team has to be perfectly built around the central figure, if both teams are very close then you look at the other specific pairings, good fits for the team etc. if the level is still close then you watch at quality of the individual players except of the central player.

good luck @Anders Emil Våge @oneniltothearsenal @Raees @Invictus

 

[2mufc0]

Don't see how a sweeper will work against a modern formation/tactic like onenils team? There's a reason the position is now obsolete . It would make more sense to play with a defensive midfielder.

 

[Moby]

What's this?

 

[Šjor Bepo]

What's this?

Spoiler

 

[harms]

Spoiler: spiteful rant

I understand that Law played with other stars like Charlton and Best but when me and Joga got our player, who was similarly a secondary in his team, we thought that it would be against the spirit of the whole 'building a team around the assigned player' if we simply picked stars in the other position even if he was known to have that environment. Now, I understand that this is something down to interpretation of everyone and while the team here looks great overall, I can't see Law being a central figure in this line up, with the names mentioned around him, which we thought was something important considering the theme.

As far as I'm concerned, 'building a team around someone' especially when they are an attacking player, would mean the majority of the game will flow through them or would have them as a central figure. Say, if that is a striker, then it would be in a system where they are clearly the primary goalscorer and the rest are there to provide the platform or the service to get them on the scoresheet, if then you have a system where there are better goalscorers who in an ideal situation would be the ones getting more goals or at the end of the chances then that concept goes out of the window, does it not? It could still be the 'best environment' for the said player if he has other aspects which would be used and there is no doubt that Law would be great in this team but if this was a real game, I struggle to see a large percentage of iterations where Law would be the man of the match, or at least the attacker who clearly gets the limelight or something like that. I say this as I consider Asparuhov a superior to Law in their primary aspects, when I played him I picked someone as selfless as Klose next to him because he's the sort of player who would love to shine in a game while the rest work towards making that happen. In a way, he's being what the assigned player would be if we were to go with these guidelines.

Similarly here, there were probably two paths for you, to either surround Law with similar quality as he was in his prime and use his qualities that provided them the balance or have Law on his own as the star man and get the supporting cast who in terms of style would be willing to take a back seat and let him excel.

Very difficult balance to get right. My initial impression is - perhaps - that two out of Ceulemans, Pirri and Asparuhov would've been fine, but all three may be pushing it. They're very bright, to put it like that. All three could easily steal the show by - let's say - transcending their basic roles. Ceulemans is a playmaker - but he's also capable of spectacular long range finishes. Pirri is capable of running the match, and decide it directly. Asparuhov is a huge X-factor who might enter genius mode and grab the headlines, rather than simply functioning nicely as a second striker. And so forth. All hypothetical, of course, but that's the territory.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I can see the reasoning for moving Park to the left but its a bit of a waste for Alexis. He prefers to be on the left, he is better on the left so why force him into the team? I get it that he would cut in a lot but still, its a bit of a meh combination for me. Tbh Alexis is the last player id pick for this draft, ball hog of the highest order, selfish as feck and prefers to have the central role in the team even if he is next to Messi in the team.
The rest of the team seems okay. Crespo is okay but nothing more, Carrick - Essien is a nice combo in this team, both wide triangles look great....
To conclude, tactic in general looks pretty damn good but im not sure if thats the right group of players for Bergkamp.

As for the other team, i have to do some research on Chumpitaz and Asparuhov but team in general looks good. Only concern is Godin in the LCB spot, think id have him in the middle of a back 3.

 

[harms]

Don't see how a sweeper will work against a modern formation/tactic like onenils team? There's a reason the position is now obsolete . It would make more sense to play with a defensive midfielder.

They are not playing against each other.

 

[harms]

Lots of similarities between Law and Elkjaer and, seeing that we've built something that looks a lot like R/I team, no wonder that I like it. I would've preferred a more playmaking type instead of Ceulemans, but we'll see how the public reacts to it. The only tactical problem that I have is Stielike/Chumpitaz, there is no point in the latter when you have Stielike and you could've had another b2b presence in midfield, for example. And that back 3 looks a bit too defensive - since Chumpitaz, despite possessing brilliant technique, wasn't exactly a libero.

Don't see a chemistry between Bergkamp and Crespo, neither is Sanchez looking perfect in this set up.

 

[Moby]

Yeah I share the concerns about Alexis here, a tad too individualistic for the Dutchman's liking probably. Even though him and Park suit the counter attacking strategy to a tee, but it's not an optimum setup for Bergkamp per say.

On the other hand Law looks absolutely in his element to bring the team home while being right at the centre stage. Excellent choices there, especially Cuelemans as the #10 and not someone who'd dominate the ball primarily. Jan's off the ball contribution will massively aid Law's all round ability.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

I can see the reasoning for moving Park to the left but its a bit of a waste for Alexis. He prefers to be on the left, he is better on the left so why force him into the team? I get it that he would cut in a lot but still, its a bit of a meh combination for me. Tbh Alexis is the last player id pick for this draft, ball hog of the highest order, selfish as feck and prefers to have the central role in the team even if he is next to Messi in the team.
The rest of the team seems okay. Crespo is okay but nothing more, Carrick - Essien is a nice combo in this team, both wide triangles look great....

I expected someone might say this about Alexis and its really a misunderstanding of both Alexis and Bergkamp. First, I watched Alexis all season long and then checked the passing maps after every Arsenal match. One thing that springs out is how often Alexis, Ozil and Xhaka (the three best technical players passed the ball amongst themselves). It was remarked all season long how it looked like Alexis didn't trust some of the players and thus wouldn't pass to them as much because Walcott would lose the ball frequently. However when he was surrounded with players he knew had the techique like Ozil and Xhaka he was not even remotely "selfish as feck". In fact Alexis lead Arsenal in assists this year and to those of us who actually watched him closely all season he wasn't as selfish as gets propagandized.

Additionally I feel the concept that you must surround Bergkamp with all unselfish players like Park or Ozil is way off base. Its not like Bergkamp only excelled in teams with 9 purely unselfish players. I have never seen Overmars described as unselfish (in fact I remember some Arsenal fans saying the exact opposite) and yet he formed a superb partnership with Bergkamp. So this line of criticism is invalid to me.

 

[Invictus]

As for the other team, i have to do some research on Chumpitaz and Asparuhov but team in general looks good. Only concern is Godin in the LCB spot, think id have him in the middle of a back 3.

Europe - Player of the Century

39.Paul Van Himst (Belgium) 28
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
40.Georgi Asparukhov (Bulgaria) 27
Paolo Rossi (Italy) 27
42.James Greaves (England) 26
Luigi Riva (Italy) 26

http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/iffhs-century.html

1. Eusébio da Silva Ferreira Portugal Benfica 67 9 3 3 - 1 16
2. Giacinto Facchetti Italy Internazionale 59 3 8 4 - - 15
3. Luis Suárez Spain Internazionale 45 4 3 3 2 - 12
4. Paul Van Himst Belgium Anderlecht 25 - 2 3 4 - 9
5. Bobby Charlton England Manchester United 19 1 1 2 2 - 6
6. Flórián Albert Hungary Ferencváros 14 - 1 1 2 3 7
7. Gianni Rivera Italy Milan AC 10 1 - - 2 1 4
8. Georgi Asparukhov Bulgaria Levski Sofia 9 1 1 - - - 2
Alessandro Mazzola Italy Internazionale 9 1 - 1 - 1 3

http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/europa-poy65.html

Remarkably, Asparuhov became the first player in history to score two goals at the Estadio da Luz against Benfica, and his three goals against the club immediately drew him to the attention of Europe’s biggest clubs. Firstly, it was Benfica, having seen first hand what the Bulgarian was capable of, after he dismantled Portugal twice and scored three against Benfica. Eusebio was certainly an advocate of the move, commenting “I craved to play alongside Asparuhov. In the game between Benfica and Levski he conquered Lisbon.” Next it was AC Milan, who spent a number of years chasing the forward, with Milan manager Nereo Rocco describing Gundi as, “the striker of my dreams.”

https://ahalftimereport.com/2015/10/30/georgi-asparuhov/

Lots of similarities between Law and Elkjaer and, seeing that we've built something that looks a lot like R/I team, no wonder that I like it. I would've preferred a more playmaking type instead of Ceulemans, but we'll see how the public reacts to it.

TBH, given our relinquish possession style, we didn't want to add a playmaking #10 behind Law to monopolize whatever amount of ball we saw, especially with Pirri coming from the deep - and Ceulemans' dummy runs will further open up space for Law to exploit. Seemed to be a natural fit for the setup as opposed to a Cueto or Dobrin (who were initially under consideration but were deemed to be more high maintenance, for lack of a better term). Plus, Ceulemans' industry and workrate in forward areas could unsettle the opposition defense and that's going to be key given our emphasis on a heavy press theme up front to ensnare the ball using blitz tactics.

Plus, as we mentioned in the OP, a more orthodox #10 would inhibit our positional versatility and athleticism in 2-wide configurations:

Spoiler

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

DENNIS BERGKAMP

“Behind every kick of the ball there has to be a thought”

Style of Play:

Outside of what is well known, what I was always amazed with was how involved he was in Arsenal's play always. His stats (goals and assists) are not as impressive as one might expect but that overlooks how influential was in all attacking plays. He conducted play for Arsenal collecting numerous pre-assists. His ability to wind up an entire defense on his own naturally created options for his teammates. The emphasis is on his technical ability and creative forward role where his reading of the match was superb and his first touch sublime. He also always had a spectacular goal or assist in him.

“Bergkamp dropped into a space so deep it took one central midfielder out of the equation going forward, and both Pires and Ljungberg were genuinely excellent at covering their full-back.”

---

One of the key features to getting the absolute most out of Bergkamp was to build the team around Bergkamp’s tactical flexibility and creative genius. Everyone should have a high level of technique and also a mix of other traits. As Zonal Marking discusses in that article for Arsenal of 98-2004, Bergkamp’s role was really a forerunner of the AMC in the modern 4231s of the 2000s. We wanted to build with players that could seamlessly shift between the various permutations of the 442/4231 and even the Ajax formation Bergkamp played in.

For striker, we identified the qualities of pace, technique and ability to score variety of goals being key traits for why Henry, Anelka, Wright and Kluivert worked well with Bergkamp maximizing his creativity. In this pool, Crespo was identified as the ideal striker for Bergkamp .Can't see any of the other strikers drafted doing as good a job.

For the wings/wide forwards it was important to mix a variety of traits. Park was identified early as being the perfect team player to make the tactical system work efficiently. On the other side we wanted a pacy, hard working player who could slot in as a second striker when attacking with Bergkamp dropping into a no.10 AMC role as well to combine with RFB on the flank making attacking runs and getting on the end of Bergkamp’s passes. As identified since 40% of Bergkamp’s passes were through-balls we wanted players that could all get on the end of those through balls in addition to other traits.

This is where Essien and Maicon come in. Both were devastating in their peaks at making runs and unbalancing defences with their unexpected burst. Maicon is an upgraded Lauren while peak Essien reminded me a lot of Vieira.

Why Crespo?

“For me it was always a matter of adjusting to someone else's game. With Nicolas Anelka it was easy because he was so quick. Just go behind the defender, I'll give you the ball and you're one-on-one with the goalkeeper. Thierry Henry's fantastic with all his skills. And Ian Wright was great. But if I had to pick one I would say Thierry because of the unbeaten season with him. Of today's players, I would like to have a fast player who makes runs and scores.”


Why Kenny Burns?

‘ Later, we were successful because of our English defenders. They put the spirit in the team, which the Europeans lacked. They would say, "Get stuck in!" and all sorts of other phrases. I loved it, especially: "How much do you want it?" I thought about it. It stuck with me. Do you really want it more than the opponent? How much are you prepared to give? How much time do you want to put in to become better? It's the English warrior tradition; a moral code. We go out together and we're going to give 100 per cent.”

“I think the best are players like Sol Campbell, Jaap Stam – hard, serious defenders with pace who can read the game...I prefer defenders like Martin Keown who do their job and maybe have big mouths in the dressing room but in a funny way. He took pride in getting someone else not to score a goal. And he was a fantastic trash talker: ''Come on, come on, let's have it... you think you can go past me? Oh yeah?'

Why Park, Evra and Sanchez?

“I was waiting for Freddie to make his run. At that time he was always coming from somewhere and I could find him. I remember a lot of assists with Ashley Cole as well. I'd see him out of the corner of my eye. He'd begin to move. If he stops, it's a silly pass, but he'd keep running, because he knew what I was going to do and I'd put it just outside the far post, inside the box, and he would just come across, with pace. You can't defend that. There hasn't been a right-winger born who'll track back that far!”

“But the real liefhebbers (the literal translation is "love-havers", the guys who really have love for the game) stayed behind to practise. And not only players. David Dein and Massimo Moratti are people who really love the game too. At Arsenal it was always the same players, eight or nine, who stayed behind to work after training. And I guarantee if you do that you'll become a better player.”

Why Hoddle on the Bench?

“I admired Glenn Hoddle. He stood out because of his technique: two feet, a soft touch, very precise.”

“And I wasn't a Tottenham fan; I was a Hoddle fan. My plan was always to come to England after Italy. I loved the passion, the crowds.“


Bergkamp Quotes on shaping our player selection-

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/features/dennis-bergkamp-one-one

Articles:

“Ian Wright tells an anecdote of Bergkamp’s first touch, reminiscing about a goal he scored against Tottenham in his first season in England. “It was one touch, one touch! We’re talking about a ball that has just travelled 40 yards in the air and he’s killed it dead,” Wright said. “I knew that if I get the ball over in his general direction there’s a chance he’ll do something I haven’t even thought of.” Arsenal’s second-highest goalscorer of all time, reduced to wide-eyed fan.

It almost goes without saying that Bergkamp possessed immense trickery and flair, but his was an elevated type of skill. Modern (and largely social) media has promoted tricks and skills into their own sport, ‘tekkers’ worthy of praise in isolation. Football freestyling is now a thing.

We assume that Dennis does not approve. For him, skills were not affectations or accessories, but a vital part of the game. A trick was utilised, not performed, used not for its own end but simply to help his team succeed.

Take that Newcastle goal, for example. “I thought the ball was a little too much behind me so I had to turn to control it,” Bergkamp said. “The quickest way to turn the ball was going that way. It looked a bit special or strange or nice but for me it was the quickest way to the goal. The finish was about just trying to get it past the goalkeeper in such a way he cannot reach it.”

The impudence and brilliance of the goal is played down to an almost parodical level. Efficiency has rarely been so sexy.

Yet the focus on Bergkamp’s technical ability overshadows his greatest attribute: commitment. At a time when foreign imports were (sometimes fairly) accused of clambering aboard the Premier League bus for the money and a last hurrah, Bergkamp demonstrated the total determination that would ensure his natural ability was maximised.

If Bergkamp was one part artist, he was at least another part fighter, a drive to succeed described perfectly by Thierry Henry. “Everything had to be perfect, even in training. Everything at one hundred per cent. He’s a very funny guy but when he was working there was no joking.” Bergkamp required aggression to assimilate into an English game which was still stylistically similar to the old First Division. You needed to be physical to succeed.”

http://www.football365.com/news/portrait-of-a-legend-dennis-bergkamp


from my favorite historical SA site:

https://www.imortaisdofutebol.com/2013/09/05/craque-imortal-bergkamp/


“On the other hand, Bergkamp played more centrally than Henry and mostly spent his time outside the penalty area to provide support to teammates. As shown in the following diagram, Bergkamp made 70% of his assists outside the penalty area. His percentage of assists in central area and right side was more than that of Henry.”

--https://footballperformanceanalysis...cibles-analysis-3-henry-bergkamp-partnership/


Cruyff’s deep influence on football spreads across international boundaries and spans decades but at home in Amsterdam, right at the outset of Cruyff’s coaching career, a 16-year-old Bergkamp was one of the earliest beneficiaries of his genius. He only spent two years playing for Cruyff, but it was a formative period. The great man’s successor had been anointed.

To look back now at Bergkamp’s best Ajax goals – he scored 122 in 237 games – is to almost be transported to another place. The willowy forward with the blond hair seems to be playing football in a different way, scoring otherworldly goals. A perfectly judged finish soaring past an onrushing keeper, like a golfer chipping in from a bunker; a stepover and shimmy to fool the keeper and a dink over the defender; a lob; another lob; so many lobs; and then a chip delivered piping hot from heaven. For someone who famously refuses to fly, Bergkamp certainly condemned the ball to spending excessive amounts of time in the air.

Bergkamp says in Stillness and Speed: “I really love that Federer way of playing. To have such control that you can trick a goalkeeper, trick the opponent. Like Federer’s drop volleys, the little disguised lob. To be able to do something like that, yeah… to do something that others don’t do or are not capable of doing. That’s my interest; not following, but creating your own thing.”

The environment was ideal for a mind like Bergkamp’s. It was in Amsterdam, during a period when the city was being reinvented, that he first started to learn how to find new solutions to old problems and to utilise his prodigious touch in unique ways. Growing up, he sharpened his thought processes, and his skills, in a permissive atmosphere at Ajax, which for the most part subscribed to Cruyffian ideals. Then, after winning the league title in 1989-90 and the UEFA Cup in 1991-92, it was time to step up.

--Bergkamp's Goal vs. Newcastle Awesome Article

http://www.eurosport.com/football/p...gkamp-s-perfect-moment_sto6075276/story.shtml


Zonal Marking Team of Decade with some key comments

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/02/12/teams-of-the-decade-9-arsenal-2001-04/


Some notable statistical performances:

03/04 -

3 key passes

Vs Leeds 1-4 Arsenal (Premier League)


99/00

2 goals, 1 assist

Arsenal 5-1 Middlesbrough (Premier League)


97/98

3 goals

Arsenal 3-3 Leicester (Premier League)


98/99

2 goals, 1 assist

Arsenal 3-0 Newcastle United (Premier League)


98/99

4 assists

Arsenal 5-0 Leicester City (Premier League)



This Video Showcases great goals separated by style:

Curler, Placement, Power, Chip, First Touch, Predator





This Video showcases passing and assist brilliance:





Match touches of some classic matches

Vs. Chelsea 1997





Vs. Aston Villa 1998-99





Vs. Leicester

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Don't see a chemistry between Bergkamp and Crespo, neither is Sanchez looking perfect in this set up.

This is why Crespo was selected. Personally I didn't think any striker in the pool offered the ability to maximize Bergkamp's range of assists than Crespo. Maybe Owen from the DIP pool but that strategy was risky.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

@harms

I agree completely, very well written too, especially parts of it.

The problem is even more marked here, though, since Asparuhov and Ceulemans are clearly much more likely to outshine Law than this Best character, whoever he is.

But other than that, the two cases are indeed strikingly similar.

Glad to see you're not bitter, though - a terrible defeat (oh, wait, you won by a landslide - but the point still stands) can be hard to take when it's caused by people who don't vote for your opponent (slyness on a different level).

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I expected someone might say this about Alexis and its really a misunderstanding of both Alexis and Bergkamp. First, I watched Alexis all season long and then checked the passing maps after every Arsenal match. One thing that springs out is how often Alexis, Ozil and Xhaka (the three best technical players passed the ball amongst themselves). It was remarked all season long how it looked like Alexis didn't trust some of the players and thus wouldn't pass to them as much because Walcott would lose the ball frequently. However when he was surrounded with players he knew had the techique like Ozil and Xhaka he was not even remotely "selfish as feck". In fact Alexis lead Arsenal in assists this year and to those of us who actually watched him closely all season he wasn't as selfish as gets propagandized.

Additionally I feel the concept that you must surround Bergkamp with all unselfish players like Park or Ozil is way off base. Its not like Bergkamp only excelled in teams with 9 purely unselfish players. I have never seen Overmars described as unselfish (in fact I remember some Arsenal fans saying the exact opposite) and yet he formed a superb partnership with Bergkamp. So this line of criticism is invalid to me.

Nah, just like you i watched almost every game of Alexis this season(only didnt watch when United was playing in the same time) as i dont miss arsenal games and Bergkamp is my favorite player outside United so im very familiar with both players.
I dont need maps to tell me if he is selfish or not if i watched the game, he has a lot of qualities in his game but he is also selfish. You can defend him all you want and make excuses for him but i dont buy it, firstly as i watch it and secondly as he was the same at Barca were everyone was better then him bot overall and technique wise and he was still selfish.
This days people are desperate to see everything in stats so for some reason assist mark rectifies selfishness and IMO i see very few contact points between the two, specially this days were you get assist for almost everything.
Being selfish doesnt necessarily mean not giving the ball(even though Alexis is guilty of that), you can be selfish with your passing. You remember that goal from Ozil few weeks ago where Alexis found him between 2, 3 players? He tries that pass every game at least 4 times(pass goes though every 5 games) even though the chances are extremely low and there are better and smarter solutions out there. Good example of that is Coutinho. One of the most selfish players in the league with his passing, always tries the attractive ones, mostly fails but when he does get it right everyone hypes him out like he is PL Messi. Silva is the example how should a creative player play, even Ozil if you focus only on balance of his passing and ignore the rest of his game.


No i dont think Bergkamp has to be surrounded with unselfish players but he shouldnt be surrounded with extremely selfish players like Alexis. Someone like Overmars worked because he wasnt selfish even though he dribbled a lot but he was direct and he played his role perfectly, suited Bergkamp very well.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Nah, just like you i watched almost every game of Alexis this season(only didnt watch when United was playing in the same time) as i dont miss arsenal games and Bergkamp is my favorite player outside United so im very familiar with both players.
I dont need maps to tell me if he is selfish or not if i watched the game, he has a lot of qualities in his game but he is also selfish. You can defend him all you want and make excuses for him but i dont buy it, firstly as i watch it and secondly as he was the same at Barca were everyone was better then him bot overall and technique wise and he was still selfish.

The passing maps are important because they tell a much more nuanced and accurate story than just personal perception (which is often biased).

Its highly relevant that at least some of the perceived selfishness results from the fact that Alexis doesn't like to pass to some players because he doesn't quite trust them. This becomes bloody obvious when you see the passing maps and watch the match and you see Ozil, Alexis and Xhaka playing with each other far more than you see them passing to Giroud or Walcott. So Alexis perceived selfish problems are not nearly as major as you imply and they are massively compensated for by the fact that Alexis is surrounded by players he would play with like Maicon, Essien and Crespo rather than Giroud, Iwobi and Walcott whom Alexis does not trust.

This days people are desperate to see everything in stats so for some reason assist mark rectifies selfishness and IMO i see very few contact points between the two, specially this days were you get assist for almost everything.
Being selfish doesnt necessarily mean not giving the ball(even though Alexis is guilty of that), you can be selfish with your passing. You remember that goal from Ozil few weeks ago where Alexis found him between 2, 3 players? He tries that pass every game at least 4 times(pass goes though every 5 games) even though the chances are extremely low and there are better and smarter solutions out there. Good example of that is Coutinho. One of the most selfish players in the league with his passing, always tries the attractive ones, mostly fails but when he does get it right everyone hypes him out like he is PL Messi. Silva is the example how should a creative player play, even Ozil if you focus only on balance of his passing and ignore the rest of his game.

Not sure why you are bringing up players like Coutinho and Silva. That isn't the type of player Alexis is nor is that even remotely the role he has been given in this side.

No i dont think Bergkamp has to be surrounded with unselfish players but he shouldnt be surrounded with extremely selfish players like Alexis. Someone like Overmars worked because he wasnt selfish even though he dribbled a lot but he was direct and he played his role perfectly, suited Bergkamp very well.

This seems to be the crux here. The question: Is Alexis too selfish to play with Bergkamp?

I say not at all. Because Bergkamp has played with selfish players and adjusted his game to maximize these combos. In fact, I would argue Bergkamp is one of the BEST in the last 20 years at doing exactly that - playing with and extracting the most from the more selfish players on the team. For example, Overmars and Anelka were BOTH selfish players. In fact both considered the other far too selfish to play well with and their tension was part of the reason Anelka left. Anelka felt Overmars never passed when he should and Overmars felt Anelka also demanded the ball too much.

But the interesting take-away is that Bergkamp had zero problems playing with either and his style was able to perfectly maximize and extract the best from both Overmars and Anelka, the two selfish players. So again, this is not really a valid criticism as Bergkamp was superb with playing with "selfish" players and getting the most out of them.

In fact, that drive from Alexis is, in my opinion a positive, as you don't want Bergkamp surrounded with 2007-2011 Wenger players like Hleb, Arshavin, Rosicky, Nasri, Cesc when the major criticism of Arsenal players post-Bergkamp was we always tried to pass the ball into the net and people were always looking to pass and not shoot.

 

[Raees]

@harms

I agree completely, very well written too, especially parts of it.

The problem is even more marked here, though, since Asparuhov and Ceulemans are clearly much more likely to outshine Law than this Best character, whoever he is.

But other than that, the two cases are indeed strikingly similar.

Glad to see you're not bitter, though - a terrible defeat (oh, wait, you won by a landslide - but the point still stands) can be hard to take when it's caused by people who don't vote for your opponent (slyness on a different level).

Have I missed something here?

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Its highly relevant that at least some of the perceived selfishness results from the fact that Alexis doesn't like to pass to some players because he doesn't quite trust them. This becomes bloody obvious when you see the passing maps and watch the match and you see Ozil, Alexis and Xhaka playing with each other far more than you see them passing to Giroud or Walcott. So Alexis perceived selfish problems are not nearly as major as you imply and they are massively compensated for by the fact that Alexis is surrounded by players he would play with like Maicon, Essien and Crespo rather than Giroud, Iwobi and Walcott whom Alexis does not trust.

I saw him playing the same way with much better players then him at Barca....

Not sure why you are bringing up players like Coutinho and Silva. That isn't the type of player Alexis is nor is that even remotely the role he has been given in this side.

Not much connected with this i agree, was explaining my definition of selfishness and i went to far

This seems to be the crux here. The question: Is Alexis too selfish to play with Bergkamp?

I say not at all. Because Bergkamp has played with selfish players and adjusted his game to maximize these combos. In fact, I would argue Bergkamp is one of the BEST in the last 20 years at doing exactly that - playing with and extracting the most from the more selfish players on the team. For example, Overmars and Anelka were BOTH selfish players. In fact both considered the other far too selfish to play well with and their tension was part of the reason Anelka left. Anelka felt Overmars never passed when he should and Overmars felt Anelka also demanded the ball too much.

But the interesting take-away is that Bergkamp had zero problems playing with either and his style was able to perfectly maximize and extract the best from both Overmars and Anelka, the two selfish players. So again, this is not really a valid criticism as Bergkamp was superb with playing with "selfish" players and getting the most out of them.

Dont really remember how Anelka played for Arsenal but as i said, i dont think Overmars was selfish. But even if he was they are totally different players, Overmars stretched the game wide which gave Bergkamp more time and space in the middle while Alexis likes to go in the middle and likes ball in his feet so he can dribble around and create.

In fact, that drive from Alexis is, in my opinion a positive, as you don't want Bergkamp surrounded with 2007-2011 Wenger players like Hleb, Arshavin, Rosicky, Nasri, Cesc when the major criticism of Arsenal players post-Bergkamp was we always tried to pass the ball into the net and people were always looking to pass and not shoot.

Drive is completely different thing(no issue with Alexis there, one of his biggest qualities IMO). Great players find the perfect balance between Alexis and Nasri, leaning heavily towards any of them is not good, at least not at highest level.

 

[antohan]

Alexis on the right takes some getting used to but I'm not too concerned about him being selfish. He can be selfish but I don't think he is an idiot.

I like Ceulemans in the other side, can see him working very well with Law. What I don't get is the midfield/defence. What is it with everyone suddenly going for 5 man defences?

I wouldn't play Chumpitaz as a sweeper. Actually, I don't see the point at all when the same side has Stielike in a midfield spot which, given Ceulemans isn't a playmaking #10, should be occupied by a mobile midfield playmaker.

I would have played Stielike ahead of the defence (with the option to drop into a three) and played someone like Modric where Stielike is.

 

[Andeva]

Nah, just like you i watched almost every game of Alexis this season(only didnt watch when United was playing in the same time) as i dont miss arsenal games and Bergkamp is my favorite player outside United so im very familiar with both players.
I dont need maps to tell me if he is selfish or not if i watched the game, he has a lot of qualities in his game but he is also selfish. You can defend him all you want and make excuses for him but i dont buy it, firstly as i watch it and secondly as he was the same at Barca were everyone was better then him bot overall and technique wise and he was still selfish.
This days people are desperate to see everything in stats so for some reason assist mark rectifies selfishness and IMO i see very few contact points between the two, specially this days were you get assist for almost everything.
Being selfish doesnt necessarily mean not giving the ball(even though Alexis is guilty of that), you can be selfish with your passing. You remember that goal from Ozil few weeks ago where Alexis found him between 2, 3 players? He tries that pass every game at least 4 times(pass goes though every 5 games) even though the chances are extremely low and there are better and smarter solutions out there. Good example of that is Coutinho. One of the most selfish players in the league with his passing, always tries the attractive ones, mostly fails but when he does get it right everyone hypes him out like he is PL Messi. Silva is the example how should a creative player play, even Ozil if you focus only on balance of his passing and ignore the rest of his game.


No i dont think Bergkamp has to be surrounded with unselfish players but he shouldnt be surrounded with extremely selfish players like Alexis. Someone like Overmars worked because he wasnt selfish even though he dribbled a lot but he was direct and he played his role perfectly, suited Bergkamp very well.

So he can be selfish. That does not affect his workrate, ability to attack the box, pace nor his desire to win. He loves to score, and will work his socks off to do it. If you lose the ball, he will try to retrive it. When we do get the ball, he will try to get into scoring positions.
As opposed to Arsenal, the gameplan will not be for him to be the main man, this is reserved for Bergkamp. Alexis role will be to get into good positions, score, press and retrive. His technique will come in handy, but are not vital to the team. The players will get the ball to Bergkamp, who will pass it on to those in scoring positions. With Alexi and Crespo hugging the offsideline, Berkamp can work his magic winding up as many defenders as you'd like, before playing the through ball to our "horny" strikers. The team is very much built around Bergkamps abilities.

 

[Gio]

Like the attention to detail from @oneniltothearsenal and agree with your tactical assessment of his role at Arsenal. Not seeing the same issues with Sanchez that others are, and Crespo is a good partner for most 10s really. Like the use of Carrick too. Ideally there'd be a bit more nimble interplay going on, the sort of football Pires helped facilitate, but Bergkamp was strong at taking something direct into feet and doing something penetrative with it.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

I saw him playing the same way with much better players then him at Barca....



Not much connected with this i agree, was explaining my definition of selfishness and i went to far



Dont really remember how Anelka played for Arsenal but as i said, i dont think Overmars was selfish. But even if he was they are totally different players, Overmars stretched the game wide which gave Bergkamp more time and space in the middle while Alexis likes to go in the middle and likes ball in his feet so he can dribble around and create.

Actually Overmars is right-footed and absolutely loved to cut inside and shoot with his right foot for Arsenal exactly like Alexis. In fact this was something that pissed Anelka off as Anelka wanted Overmars to just provide him service and not cut inside to shoot so much.

Here is a quote from Arsene Wenger: The Unauthorized Biography of Le Professor

Naturally right footed, the Dutman looked comfortable on the left, from where he could inside and shoot with his right foot.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

So he can be selfish. That does not affect his workrate, ability to attack the box, pace nor his desire to win. He loves to score, and will work his socks off to do it. If you lose the ball, he will try to retrive it. When we do get the ball, he will try to get into scoring positions.

I agree, never questioned that part of his game.

As opposed to Arsenal

, the gameplan will not be for him to be the main man, this is reserved for Bergkamp. Alexis role will be to get into good positions, score, press and retrive. His technique will come in handy, but are not vital to the team. The players will get the ball to Bergkamp, who will pass it on to those in scoring positions. With Alexi and Crespo hugging the offsideline, Berkamp can work his magic winding up as many defenders as you'd like, before playing the through ball to our "horny" strikers. The team is very much built around Bergkamps abilities.

Here is where i have the problem, i cant see Alexis playing like Pedro. He will always want to have the main role and ball in his feet, he was like that with Messi/Xavi/Iniesta at Barca, he is now the same with Ozil at Arsenal even when played as striker. He can be great in certain systems, this system isnt one as he can only perform when he is the main player IMO

@oneniltothearsenal
I know that but Overmars cutting in and Alexis cutting in is day and night difference. Overmars would stay wide until the very end and then would cut in to shoot or to pass while Alexis likes to drift inside from the start.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Like the attention to detail from @oneniltothearsenal and agree with your tactical assessment of his role at Arsenal. Not seeing the same issues with Sanchez that others are, and Crespo is a good partner for most 10s really. Like the use of Carrick too. Ideally there'd be a bit more nimble interplay going on, the sort of football Pires helped facilitate, but Bergkamp was strong at taking something direct into feet and doing something penetrative with it.

Aye, its one of the clearest setups we'e seen so far. Alot of similarities with the late-90s Arsenal team, with the most important aspects for Bergkamp nailed, and the more attacking full backs (in comparison to Dixon/Winterburn) offering him additional options. There's little doubt in my mind that it works, whereas I'm not sure if the Law setup clicks quite as well. Voted Onenil/Anders initially while I wrap my head around the other team for a bit.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

@oneniltothearsenal
I know that but Overmars cutting in and Alexis cutting in is day and night difference. Overmars would stay wide until the very end and then would cut in to shoot or to pass while Alexis likes to drift inside from the start.

I wouldn't say its night and day. Alexis makes those types of late outside-inside moves sometimes and he also has crosses in his game. I feel you are really painting a lot more one-dimensional and exaggerating certain negative traits quite a bit more than I feel is realistic but lets just leave it here and agree to disagree as I don't want match thread to just be going back and forth on this.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I wouldn't say its night and day. Alexis makes those types of late outside-inside moves sometimes and he also has crosses in his game. I feel you are really painting a lot more one-dimensional and exaggerating certain negative traits quite a bit more than I feel is realistic but lets just leave it here and agree to disagree as I don't want match thread to just be going back and forth on this.

yeah, think its the best we agree to disagree as we see the same situation quite differently

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Like the attention to detail from @oneniltothearsenal and agree with your tactical assessment of his role at Arsenal. Not seeing the same issues with Sanchez that others are, and Crespo is a good partner for most 10s really. Like the use of Carrick too. Ideally there'd be a bit more nimble interplay going on, the sort of football Pires helped facilitate, but Bergkamp was strong at taking something direct into feet and doing something penetrative with it.

Cheers, this is what we were trying to do. For the nimble interplay its a great point and it is/was something we want to incorporate more, it was just how the block list worked it made it tough to find the right kind of players for that later on but it is something we would like to include a bit more of.

Aye, its one of the clearest setups we'e seen so far. Alot of similarities with the late-90s Arsenal team, with the most important aspects for Bergkamp nailed, and the more attacking full backs (in comparison to Dixon/Winterburn) offering him additional options. There's little doubt in my mind that it works, whereas I'm not sure if the Law setup clicks quite as well. Voted Onenil/Anders initially while I wrap my head around the other team for a bit.

Thanks and on the full backs that's why we weren't as concerned about Alexis and Park provided width as much because were updating to more modern full backs.

 

[harms]

Why Crespo?

“For me it was always a matter of adjusting to someone else's game. With Nicolas Anelka it was easy because he was so quick. Just go behind the defender, I'll give you the ball and you're one-on-one with the goalkeeper. Thierry Henry's fantastic with all his skills. And Ian Wright was great. But if I had to pick one I would say Thierry because of the unbeaten season with him. Of today's players, I would like to have a fast player who makes runs and scores.”

So... why Crespo? He definitely wasn't fast. And about 90% of his goals came from crosses (even most of his incredible volleys). How is he maximizing Bergkamp's passing ability? Since that quote leaves me with the impression that Bergkamp would like someone like Henry as his partner.

Crespo will be a good fit for him, of course, but if you're arguing that he'll play Henry-esque role and will mostly try to be on the end of Bergkamp's through-balls, I don't know. I don't see it.

 

[harms]

Glad to see you're not bitter, though - a terrible defeat (oh, wait, you won by a landslide - but the point still stands) can be hard to take when it's caused by people who don't vote for your opponent (slyness on a different level).

As you probably understand, it's not bitterness but rather a genuine surprise that was caused by that argument.

 

[Invictus]

Aye, its one of the clearest setups we'e seen so far. Alot of similarities with the late-90s Arsenal team, with the most important aspects for Bergkamp nailed, and the more attacking full backs (in comparison to Dixon/Winterburn) offering him additional options. There's little doubt in my mind that it works, whereas I'm not sure if the Law setup clicks quite as well. Voted Onenil/Anders initially while I wrap my head around the other team for a bit.

Isn't that the inherent flaw in the format, though? The likes of Pirès and Ljungberg are very easy to replicate, et voilà! You have a replication of Arsenal with little effort or invention - plus, you know Bergkamp will provide elegant through-balls, so you put a relatively mobile 9 ahead of him. Quite formulaic, by and large. Contrast that with Law - how do you make someone like him shine, really, and how do you quantify how shiny he's going to be? He was at his BEST as an inside forward or secondary striker who would prowl on the edge of the box - going both ways, and that's what he is here.

GK 1 David Gaskell
RB 2 Tony Dunne
LB 3 Noel Cantwell (c)
RH 4 Pat Crerand
CH 5 Bill Foulkes
LH 6 Maurice Setters
OR 7 Johnny Giles
IR 8 Albert Quixall
CF 9 David Herd
IL 10 Denis Law
OL 11 Bobby Charlton

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1963_FA_Cup_Final

Instead of outside left and right, we are using wingbacks (emulating Charlton or Best would result in a watered down pastiche in this pool) and giving Law unlimited freedom to do whatever he desires on offense - whether he wants to drop, or go wide or head straight for the box. On top of that, part of Ceulemans' remit is to pull markers off Law apart from being economical in possession, as opposed to a standard 10 in the classic sense who will hog the ball and be an impediment to Law on the counter by controlling more of the ball than he needs to.

 

[harms]

Have I missed something here?

Yeah, it has nothing to do with your game

 

[Chesterlestreet]

As you probably understand, it's not bitterness but rather a genuine surprise that was caused by that argument.

Fair enough, let's leave it at that.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

So... why Crespo?

As the above graph shows, Bergkamp's assists were distributed over a variety of plays with through first, then crosses second, so having a player capable of finishing those chances first was a priority. While Crespo is not as pacy as Owen he is definitely faster than say Zlatan and got on the end of through balls as shown below. If you look at collections of all his goals he shows a great variety and in his peak at Lazio could field all sorts of passes and turn them into goals. I will make some gifs to illustrate what I mean:

Spoiler: Crespo getting on the end of Bergkamp-ish through balls

Crespo also had the speed of thought and technique to get on the end of Bergkamp moves in ways Anelka, Wright, Kluivert all benefited from:

Spoiler: Bergkamp lob assist

Spoiler: Crespo goal from lob assist

Spoiler: Bergkamp dribble through center to short through ball assist

Spoiler: Crespo goal from dribble through center to short through ball assist

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Isn't that the inherent flaw in the format, though? The likes of Pirès and Ljungberg are very easy to replicate, et voilà! You have a replication of Arsenal with little effort or invention - plus, you know Bergkamp will provide elegant through-balls, so you put a relatively mobile 9 ahead of him. Quite formulaic, by and large. .

Pires and ljungberg are not being "replicated" here. If anything Alexis is taking from Overmars and Park is taking from Parlour in the earlier 97-00 side but even that we tried to upate with the modern fullbacks and how that changes the necessary traits in the inside forward/wide midfielder.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Yeah, it has nothing to do with your game

Then why are you posting it in this match?
If you have some issue or bitterness with my critique of your side then please leave that in your own match thread.

Crespo will be a good fit for him, of course, but if you're arguing that he'll play Henry-esque role and will mostly try to be on the end of Bergkamp's through-balls, I don't know. I don't see it.

Nowhere did we say his role is Henry-esque and if anything the inspiration is more a combination of players like Anelka-Wright etc.

From the OP

"Rather it is intended to incorporate elements from the three main sides that we enjoyed Bergkamp - Arsenal 97-00, Ajax 91-93 and Holland 1994 and 1998."

 

[harms]

Then why are you posting it in this match?
If you have some issue or bitterness with my critique of your side then please leave that in your own match thread.

Had nothing to do with you too. Sorry.

Nowhere did we say his role is Henry-esque and if anything the inspiration is more a combination of players like Anelka-Wright etc.

From the OP

"Rather it is intended to incorporate elements from the three main sides that we enjoyed Bergkamp - Arsenal 97-00, Ajax 91-93 and Holland 1994 and 1998."

You had a specific paragraph dedicated to Crespo, in which you quoted Bergkamp saying that Henry was the best partner he ever had and that he'd like to have a fast player to make runs and to score. I assumed that the comparison with Henry was hidden there somewhere - what's the point of that quote otherwise?

Why Crespo?

“For me it was always a matter of adjusting to someone else's game. With Nicolas Anelka it was easy because he was so quick. Just go behind the defender, I'll give you the ball and you're one-on-one with the goalkeeper. Thierry Henry's fantastic with all his skills. And Ian Wright was great. But if I had to pick one I would say Thierry because of the unbeaten season with him. Of today's players, I would like to have a fast player who makes runs and scores.”

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

You had a specific paragraph dedicated to Crespo, in which you quoted Bergkamp saying that Henry was the best partner he ever had and that he'd like to have a fast player to make runs and to score. I assumed that the comparison with Henry was hidden there somewhere - what's the point of that quote otherwise?

Oh that was my mistake I should have cut that quote shorter:
"For me it was always a matter of adjusting to someone else's game. With Nicolas Anelka it was easy because he was so quick. Just go behind the defender, I'll give you the ball and you're one-on-one with the goalkeeper. Thierry Henry's fantastic with all his skills. And Ian Wright was great. "

The intended point was how Dennis constantly adjusted to someone else's game and he was good with all three strikers styles by being able to provide a huge range of assists and pre-assists. Crespo was one of the best at being able to get on the through ball (not like Henry of course who I probably rate higher than most so I felt was not really easy to replicate so better to go for the Anelka-Wright-Kluivert level) but also take advantage of all Bergkamp other traits. And he isn't the only one intended to get on the end of the through balls so that isn't the only role of Crespo like it wasn't with Anelka or Wright or Kluivert. Alexis, Essien, Maicon, Evra could all get on the end of his through balls. We didn't just want it to be obvious where striker=super fast always get on through ball but rather incorporate that trait of making off ball runs into the whole side if that makes sense?

 

[harms]

Oh that was my mistake I should have cut that quote shorter:
"For me it was always a matter of adjusting to someone else's game. With Nicolas Anelka it was easy because he was so quick. Just go behind the defender, I'll give you the ball and you're one-on-one with the goalkeeper. Thierry Henry's fantastic with all his skills. And Ian Wright was great. "

The intended point was how Dennis constantly adjusted to someone else's game and he was good with all three strikers styles by being able to provide a huge range of assists and pre-assists. Crespo was one of the best at being able to get on the through ball (not like Henry of course who I probably rate higher than most so I felt was not really easy to replicate so better to go for the Anelka-Wright-Kluivert level) but also take advantage of all Bergkamp other traits. And he isn't the only one intended to get on the end of the through balls so that isn't the only role of Crespo like it wasn't with Anelka or Wright or Kluivert. Alexis, Essien, Maicon, Evra could all get on the end of his through balls. We didn't just want it to be obvious where striker=super fast always get on through ball but rather incorporate that trait of making off ball runs into the whole side if that makes sense?

Oh, that makes much more sense, I was genuinely baffled

 

[antohan]

So he can be selfish. That does not affect his workrate, ability to attack the box, pace nor his desire to win. He loves to score, and will work his socks off to do it. If you lose the ball, he will try to retrive it. When we do get the ball, he will try to get into scoring positions.
As opposed to Arsenal, the gameplan will not be for him to be the main man, this is reserved for Bergkamp. Alexis role will be to get into good positions, score, press and retrive. His technique will come in handy, but are not vital to the team. The players will get the ball to Bergkamp, who will pass it on to those in scoring positions. With Alexi and Crespo hugging the offsideline, Berkamp can work his magic winding up as many defenders as you'd like, before playing the through ball to our "horny" strikers. The team is very much built around Bergkamps abilities.

A good example that comes to mind is the Enzo-Crespo-Ortega axis at River Plate. Ortega was quite the ball-hogger but you could hardly argue it impeded the side or that he did it to anyone's detriment. He was a great player out wide who brought a lot to the table, simple as.