Questions about United's academy

Seems to me that the best under 18s have moved up to the under 21s as more of that age group are heading out. Secondly, we don't have any natural strikers in that group. Thirdly we have a lot of injuries, plus weird holes, such as a lack of left backs, meaning that midfielders have to play there. So we end up with a lot of schoolboys, and players out of position.

In answer to your second question, have we really been investing? Why are we so short of strikers and defenders? Who have we brought in recently? We seem to have a very small group of kids in the current u18 age group...
 
1.People need to understand that the U18s is just one age group in the academy and that league results usually mean next to nothing.Usually when you have a good group of U18s players some of them will play ahead of their age for the U21s which left a bit unbalanced/young lot remaining unless you have a big squad.Last year I didn't see any of those stupid comparison when we were 4th in the Playoff round and City was 7th (which doesn't even mean that we were better than them as loads of their U18s last season played up for their U21s as well).There are some players who are not good enough but generally we have a good crop who are suffering from lack of balance/injuries/lack of confidence.As @backofthenet mentioned, they have no natural striker,no left back,loads of midfielders and their best defenders are all with the U21s plus all the injuries mean they have a makeshift defence most of the times.That is a problem itself since it reflected lack of adequate planning but I would not be so concerned myself.At the end of the day it's all about how the best individuals progress.

2. We are not underfunded obviously as one of the most healthiest financially club in the world but from I heard we lost out of some deals due to sheer incompetency from some senior figures in charge.All have heard about how we lost out on Upamecano.The lad wanted to come to us and you could imagine additions like him will make us do better in the league, not to mention the ridiculous situation of Regan Poole still not able to make his debut for us.
 
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Yes you can discuss this in great detail but broadly speaking, the answers are very simple.

1. Complacency. Stand still in any sport and you're finished.

2. Yes. The article doesn't state that this dates back to 2012 - not just now.

Quite frankly, SAF let it slide and the club have done nothing to stop it. Couple that with local rivals investing a significant amount in local and overseas youth and you get Utd right now. I got widely criticised on this forum a few weeks ago for referencing a few of these points.
 

You have to admit at there's a problem when we are spending less than half of what Chrlsea are spending on their academy and a quater of City.
In some matches, we can barely put out an eleven.
 
I know @jb8521 has suggested there's an agenda with the press over our youth system. But I think the way all the papaers have gone about this and the length of time they have been writing about it makes me feel there are people at the club pushing this agenda.
No side in the premiership has given more minutes to youth players then we have this season and also last season but it never gets mentioned.
 
Adisa said:
I know @jb8521 has suggested there's an agenda with the press over our youth system. But I think the way all the papaers have gone about this and the length of time they have been writing about it makes me feel there are people at the club pushing this agenda.
No side in the premiership has given more minutes to youth players then we have this season and also last season but it never gets mentioned.
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Where do you think the media are getting their stories from? There are most definitely people in the club pushing this....quite rightly as well. Its farcical.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Can't believe that coaches only get paid £20k!

@khoazany

Isn't the U21 quite a young side and aren't we on course to win the title in that age group again?

How about Gomes, what is he up to?
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The U21s is a bit younger than usual yeah.Though it should be that way looking at other teams.

Gomes is rated very highly by the coaches, though I won't say much since he's already getting crazily hyped up out there and it's not good for any youngster.He's a Salford lad as well so unlikely to move anywhere.

Adisa said:
I know @jb8521 has suggested there's an agenda with the press over our youth system. But I think the way all the papaers have gone about this and the length of time they have been writing about it makes me feel there are people at the club pushing this agenda.
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I think the "agenda" is probably just due to how it generates a lot of interests and debates from the fans hence they can easily sell the stories.There are definitely people inside the club or "in the know" feeding the stories yeah.
 
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Just to note: if we do win the U21 League this season, it will be the third time in four years that we have. Granted that a lot of clubs send out player in that age group on loan, us included, but it must count for something, along with the plethora of academy players making first team contributions in the past couple of seasons.
 
I think there are many reasons for the current situation this season.

These are some thoughts in no particular order.

1. We lack players in each age group.
2. We have an unusual list of injuries at all levels of the club leading to gaps the further down you go. McGuinness has lost players to the Reserves on many occasions.
3. We have big gaps in certain positions...particularly up front and out wide.
4. I think the quality of players is lower than 5-6 years ago which makes you look at the scouting over that period. We know we lack strikers but don't seem to bring any good ones in.
5. Players are being regularly played out of position.
6. Players perform better when playing with other good players and being successful...this hasn't happened for a few years.

All of these things disrupt the rhythm needed for consistency.

In addition:

6. There is known lack of leadership/vision at our Academy level.
7. Chelsea, City, Everton and others have made heavy investments into their Academy systems while we have stood still.
8. Things have been slowly getting worse over last few years. Since we won the league in 2010, we have finished 5th, 8th, 4th, 4th, 4th...sometimes up to 20 points behind the winners. This year, regardless of the remaining results, will be our worst U/18 performance since we started putting out a youth team in 1932. We have never lost ten league games in a row ever before. In addition, our loss to Chelsea in the FA Youth Cup was the second biggest defeat in our history and the worst ever in a home tie.
9. Many people talk about 'development'. This is an overused term. Certainly at U/16 level and below where league tables do not exist then being ultra competitive is not the main focus. This changes at U/18 level when players are moving from Trainee to Professional status, and the best will be challenging for the first team. Paul McGuinness has gone on record to say that it is this group where results and development are equally important. I'm not sure we are 'results focused' enough at this level. Certainly our opposition are.
10. There are other bigger league, FA issues that impact on us but that is the same for every club.

Finally, while all of this is relevant, we are still bringing kids through to the first team when many other teams are not. However, we certainly aren't developing any 'international class' players like we used to.

I'd like to see us get the next Eric Harrison into the club...win leagues and cups every year and put 3/4 players into the first team regularly.

It always comes down to leadership.
 
Some good points and although I agree the press are enjoying having a dig a bit too much and results arent the be all and end all at youth level there are clearly issues when results are this bad, Mclair still hasn't been replaced and a proper eleven can't be put on the pitch regularly.

Would anyone want to join or to send their kids to an academy which has a makeshift team every week and no proper leadership. The club needs to learn that there has to be substance behind all the boasts about being the biggest and the best and they have fallen behind at first team and youth level, proper leadership and strategy is needed throughout the club.

I would love to see the academy budget raised by 10m a year, it's a drop in the ocean for club but would be a fortune at youth level. Retain the best staff, recruit the best staff and have a significant transfer budget to snap up the best players at home and abroad. I would also build or buy a stadium so the youth team have a proper home, not because it will make them better players but it shows pride and commitment.

Finally I would hit city back, we can't compete with them in terms of what we can offer young kids but when they are turning pro we need to sell our biggest strength which is actually wanting and giving players a chance in the first team, something I don't thinkers of Chelsea and City can say.
 
Interesting reading.

To turn the question on its head though... how come the U21s continue to do so well? 1st, 2nd, 1st in the last 3 seasons and on course to win it again this time.

I know there are obvious differences - specifically that you get senior players featuring in U21 matches, and also you get players in who aren't actually academy products. But still... if the academy has been in dceline for 5 or 6 years, you'd expect this to be having some kind of impact on the U21s by now?
 
Sir A1ex said:
Interesting reading.

To turn the question on its head though... how come the U21s continue to do so well? 1st, 2nd, 1st in the last 3 seasons and on course to win it again this time.

I know there are obvious differences - specifically that you get senior players featuring in U21 matches, and also you get players in who aren't actually academy products. But still... if the academy has been in dceline for 5 or 6 years, you'd expect this to be having some kind of impact on the U21s by now?
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Because the idea that the academy has been in decline for 5 or 6 years is quite bs in my opinion.The academy had been in decline from 1999 after Harrison's departure but did improve since around 10 years ago.The London clubs and Man City have upped their games in the youth area in the last 5-8 years which made it much harder to get into England youth teams these days.
 
Sir A1ex said:
Interesting reading.

To turn the question on its head though... how come the U21s continue to do so well? 1st, 2nd, 1st in the last 3 seasons and on course to win it again this time.

I know there are obvious differences - specifically that you get senior players featuring in U21 matches, and also you get players in who aren't actually academy products. But still... if the academy has been in dceline for 5 or 6 years, you'd expect this to be having some kind of impact on the U21s by now?
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Warren Joyce?
 
For those who follow all age groups of the academy...Who would you say are the most highly rated lads for there age group from u16s level and below? I remember watching febian brandy in an under 13 or 14 tournment on mutv and bein convinced he'd be a star,so i know a lot can change but interested to know if we'v got any in the younger groups who are regarded as a bit special?
 
mattunited1978 said:
For those who follow all age groups of the academy...Who would you say are the most highly rated lads for there age group from u16s level and below? I remember watching febian brandy in an under 13 or 14 tournment on mutv and bein convinced he'd be a star,so i know a lot can change but interested to know if we'v got any in the younger groups who are regarded as a bit special?
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Mason Greenwood is very highly rated, but is also fairly well developed physically, so there may be others who are as highly rated, but not as physical, and thus are not played up an age level.

@khoazany @GroteBergMan98 @jb8521
 
RB7N said:
Mason Greenwood is very highly rated, but is also fairly well developed physically, so there may be others who are as highly rated, but not as physical, and thus are not played up an age level.

@khoazany @GroteBergMan98 @jb8521
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Greenwood, Anthony Elenga and Teden Mambuene are probably the highest rated in the current u16s and were all in the u19s squad at last weekends Otten Cup even though they're only 15. Below that Shola Shoretire is probably the highest rated but is still only 13 so obviously too early to tell with him and a long way to go but extremely talented.
 
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