So what's the official word on this thing? I'd heard it may not be out until 2013. But the other day while I was in Best Buy a freckly, redheaded employee told me it's due out Christmas 2010. I was beginning to believe her until she spouted out "the only difference will be the PS4's color, silver instead of black"... a load of bollocks to be sure. There's speculation about the new one going back to DVD, which could be a smart move. But with the PS3's upgradeability, what the feck is the point of a new system?
Ps4
- Thread starter JCurr
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PS4 will not be out in 2010, the redheaded bint who told you that should be sacked.
The PS4 will not go back to DVD, why would Sony jeapordise their PlayStation Brand by introducing Blu-Ray and pushing it so hard, then to only drop it in the next iteration of their console? Added to the fact games are getting much, much bigger, going back to DVD would be a fool's move and is the reason why the PS4 WILL have Blu-Ray. Plus it will have the ability to play DVD's and older games anyway.
Plus the CELL is being developed and a newer version of it will be used in the PS4 (Weaste will elaborate on that point), and all the basic architeture for the PS4 is done.
The PS4 will be out around 2013/14 I'd imagine.
The PS4 will not go back to DVD, why would Sony jeapordise their PlayStation Brand by introducing Blu-Ray and pushing it so hard, then to only drop it in the next iteration of their console? Added to the fact games are getting much, much bigger, going back to DVD would be a fool's move and is the reason why the PS4 WILL have Blu-Ray. Plus it will have the ability to play DVD's and older games anyway.
Plus the CELL is being developed and a newer version of it will be used in the PS4 (Weaste will elaborate on that point), and all the basic architeture for the PS4 is done.
The PS4 will be out around 2013/14 I'd imagine.
This is the most likely date I would feel, unless they are pushed by Microsoft, however, I also think that they will be ready for whatever happens. The basic earliest date that we have is from IBM on the next generation of the Cell processor.
PS4 will probably not require double precision floating point processing though, so another revision will probably have to be done, so I'd say it's going to be early 2012 before the PS4 Cell goes into production. The only real open ended question here is what GPU they will use, and when that could possibly be ready, but it will be, like RSX, a modified PC GPU, so it's not a complex issue, but there are no real large technical hurdles to overcome the next time, as Cell and Blu-ray are done. As it will very most likely use the Cell again, it will be 100% backwards compatible, and launch with a very large games library. I expect that they already have a basic working prototype board with say 4 Cells and 2+ RSXs on it.
An interesting point is that software could in theory run on the PS3 and the PS4, with the PS4 version running at a much higher resolution with more effects. Not too dissimilar to how you can ramp up the effects and resolution with PC games depending on the hardware you have. This would allow them to keep selling PS3s at the same time as the PS4 with both being able to run the same software.
Another crazy point is that in theory they could also produce an add-on for the PS3, say a slim box that PS3 would sit on top of, that would connect to the PS3 through the gigabit ethernet port to bring it close to the PS4 specifications. We have seen Sony messing around with this idea, where they network several PS3s together to either do realtime raytracing or the GT5 demo where they were running it at very high frame rates or very high resolutions.
The Cell was designed to be able to do this, and the more you add, the more performance you get, and that performance is almost linear, unlike some other processors. It was also designed to be networked.
The woman you were talking to in the shop however, doesn't have a clue what she is talking about.
GT5 demo I mentioned:
http://www.gran-turismo.com/en/sp/d2788.html
...
http://www.gran-turismo.com/en/sp/d2788.html
Gran Turismo in 4 times the resolution of Full HD
Polyphony Digital also presented two technological trials for the next generation at this event. Both of the presentations, were founded on the philosophy of “achieving the highest possible quality” held over the years by Gran Turismo.
One of these, was a time trial competition using Sony’s newest digital cinema projector, the “SRX-S110”. Gran Turismo 5 prologue is already in Full HD resolution at 1920 x 1080 pixels, providing the highest resolution possible in today’s TV content. However in this time trial, the Full HD image was increased to twice the resolution both vertically and horizontally (4x the surface area), enabling game play at an ultra high resolution of 3840 x 2160 pixels. This was performed by connecting and synchronizing four Playstation 3’s outputting a quarter of the image each at 1920x1080 pixels, but you must remember this demands an extremely high quality image from the source that can withstand the ultra high resolution. It can be said that this demonstration was only made possible, because the source image was Gran Turismo.
What supported this time trial on the display side, was the newest digital cinema projector from Sony, the SRX-110. This “4K”SXRD”(*1) projector is the next generation in projector technology, enabling a resolution of 4096 x 2160 pixels, equivalent to the high resolution image of 35mm film. The high 4000:1 device contrast ratio and a response time of 5 milliseconds, also adds to the level of breathtaking image expression introduced here.
The crowd was simply amazed by the clarity of the image displayed on the massive 220 inch screen, and the players who participated in the time trial expressed their excitement of how perfectly in focus the screen is even close up, and at the quality of Gran Turismo.
...
The Ultra-Real, 240fps Demonstration
The other display was a playable demonstration on a Nano-Spindt FED / Field Emissions Display developed by Sony, with a frame rate of 240fps (240 frames per second).
Gran Turismo 5 Prologue has already achieved a frame rate of 60p (progressive), but in this demo, Gran Turismo was made playable at four times this frame rate at 240fps.
The SXRD demonstration described above used four PS3’s to improve image quality, but this used the same to increase the frame rate.
How would that be a smart move? It would be a bloody stupid move!
Thanks for the responses. Very interesting. I knew the Irish lass was talking bollocks. As for Blu Ray versus DVD, I just don't see how Blu Ray has taken off nor do I see how it's superior to DVD. I thought it was a stupid idea in the first place. But true, the PS3 plays DVDs as well. So I don't guess that really matters.
This is what I am hoping they do. There were rumors the PS3 would be able to partner the PS2 in this manner. But obviously, the PS2 was just a simple gaming system. The PS3 however might as well be a PC.
I suppose we'll see how many discs FFXIII and a possible Metal Gear are on when they hit XB360 on DVD.
Even a game like Uncharted used 20GB.
Presumably the next Microsoft console would be stepping away from DVDs too, with the massive failure of HD-DVD and all.
Question I was wondering is, are they allowed use Blu Ray or can Sony tell them to feck off?
Question I was wondering is, are they allowed use Blu Ray or can Sony tell them to feck off?
I suppose we'll see how many discs FFXIII and a possible Metal Gear are on when they hit XB360 on DVD.
Even a game like Uncharted used 20GB.
True.
100% certain they will, they're having to make multi-disk games and companies like Epic have already moaned at the lack of disk space they're given for games like Gears of War.
The blu-ray adoption is also possible, I heard rumours not long ago that Microsoft were intending to strike a deal with Asus to install blu-ray drives on a revamped 360 model.
In theory, the use of Blu-ray is open to anyone that pays their licence fee to the Blu-ray Association, of which Sony is one of the chair members, so Sony would be getting money in its pocket for every new XBox produced, and I'm positive that it wouldn't be a problem next generation. Sony did stump up the largest cost for the promotion of the format, and getting rid of HD-DVD, but I suppose their recompense is with a higher percentage of the licence and royalty fees on BD use, and not some sort of exclusivity contract for the use of BD in gaming.
PS4 will probably use 4 layer plus BDs, maybe 200GB+. Some claim that PS3 could use the 200GB BDs tomorrow with a firmware update, but I'm not convinced.
I think that they would have to put more than the BD drive in such a model, if true, as XB360 doesn't conform to Blu-ray 2.0, and its processor isn't really good enough to deal with decoding of 1920x1080p video on its own. It could choke the system. A secondary problem is that BD 2.0 requires Java support, and I'm not too sure how happy Microsoft would be introducing that into XBox.
I'm going off memory here of course, and I'll try to find some reliable information, but AFAIK the HD-DVD add-on for XB360 had some extra hardware, it wasn't simply a drive, and the decoding was done using both Xenon and Xenos going at it full pelt (one of the developers of the HD-DVD decoder stated this, but he also said that there was probably room for some optimisation, again from my memory). I also remember reading that XB360 can't do 1920x1080p video @ 60fps without stuttering, but luckily that's not yet part of the Blu-ray specification.
Crikey, I had no idea they could go to 200gb+. What are they are not? 50ish? I wonder if any PS3 game has actually gone close to using one up.
MGS4 perhaps?
The current standard is 50GB for a dual layer disc. I think that MGS4 used about 33GB. However, there are a number of companies developing their own ways of getting more layers onto the disc, and at some point, the Blu-ray association will adopt one of them. The 200GB one that claims not to need a new drive, but simply a firmware update to existing players is Hitachi's version I think, let me have a search.......
Yes, sorry, the current Hitachi version is 100GB, but others are going 200GB+
Here's one article....
http://www.dailytech.com/Hitachi+De...mpatible+With+Existing+Drives/article9173.htm
Doesn't look any better. The capacity is certainly better in gaming applications. But there's no difference whatsoever in picture quality.
You must be taking the piss!
Well, if you have a standard definition tv, then of course.
Your never going to notice any difference in games that are made for both platforms, why would companies waste money like that?
I don't mind PS3 has better technology, it should because its newer. Games are more then graphics. For example the graphics in Resident Evil 5 are awesome to me, and we don't really need much better then that at the moment to have an enjoyable game. Meaning that the XBOX360 is not outdated yet. And well I've been next gen gaming for at least a year longer then ps3 owners.
Mind you that grand turismo above looks pretty sweet.
Where as graphics like in unchartered are not special and are nothing new.
I don't mind PS3 has better technology, it should because its newer. Games are more then graphics. For example the graphics in Resident Evil 5 are awesome to me, and we don't really need much better then that at the moment to have an enjoyable game. Meaning that the XBOX360 is not outdated yet. And well I've been next gen gaming for at least a year longer then ps3 owners.
Mind you that grand turismo above looks pretty sweet.
Where as graphics like in unchartered are not special and are nothing new.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, IMO both Sony and Microsoft should have not gone down the HD route this time, and they should have allowed developers to use all of the processing power both machines have to be applied to SD and ED resolutions.
If that had been the case, we would have most games running with terrific image quality and 60fps. There are very few natively rendered 1080p games about, and most 720p games exhibit issues such as slowdown, tearing, low or no AA, pop-in, low-res shadow maps, particles and textures, etc. Heck, even some top of the range titles don't actually render in 720p natively, think Halo, COD4, MGS4, the list goes on. The bandwidth simply isn't there, and neither is there a sufficient amount of RAM. I'm not saying that they should have capped the hardware at 852x480p, however, they could have promoted developers to use SD and ED resolutions rather than trying to force them to go to 720p as a minimum (remember that, unlike on the PC, console games have to be approved by the manufacturer before they can be released).
The least we can hope for in the next generation would be 1080p with 4xAA at 60fps. If we can get more AA and AF in there, then great. The best thing about this generation, especially on the PS3, has been the quality of the audio IMO.
You really need to see a well encoded Blu-ray movie on a 50" 1080p set. I'll try to give you an example of what is going on, although the JPEG compression will make both look slightly worse. Here I took two images, one at DVD resolution and the other at BD resolution. I then upscaled the DVD resolution picture in Photoshop to the size of the BD picture, and then I cut a small portion of each to show what is going on.
First, the upscaled image.
Second, the high resolution image.
Saying there is no difference in image quality is crazy. Of course there is, because a DVD only holds images sampled at around 0.3 mega-pixels, whereas a BD holds images sampled at around 2 mega-pixels.
Weaste, you just moved the camera on the first one.
Even then, it should give a slightly better quality image, because of the bitrate being used, most probably having far less compression artefacts, not to mention the quality of the audio, which on many BDs is uncompressed also.
I actually took the first one second, as I had to change the resultion setting on the camera, so there.
You need a better telly or watch a decent BD.
The resolution is stunning and noticably better than DVD.
The picture quality is noticeable better immediately, your either blind or have a shit TV.
My vision is 20/15. However, the largest tele I own is 32"...
I only own a 32", but I can still tell the differance. I haven't brought a single DVD since I got my PS3 simply because I know I would be missing out otherwise.