Premier League Draft SF: Gio vs Skizzo

[General_Elegancia]

TEAM GIO

THE CITY BLUEPRINT

The team is built unashamedly around Pep Guardiola's City side that has dominated the Premier League over recent years (a whopping 198 points in 2 seasons, on track for their 4th title in 5 years). The players are set up in a 4-3-3 shape and have all been selected based on their specific fits to the shape and system. Moreover, only players from the Premier League era who fit the profile have been chosen:

• passing and ball retention - fundamental for any team wishing to dominate the ball
• technique - ability to handle pressure and take the ball in tight areas and progress forwards
• ability to play in a high line and high press - the pace and proactivity to defend high and dominate territory, with physical and energetic midfielders and attackers to win the ball back early.

The team is further strengthened by the signings of Virgil Van Dijk and Kevin De Bruyne. Van Dijk is arguably the centre-half in this pool best suited to this style of play. Here he assumes his existing left-central-defensive berth where he can command the defensive line and provide the insurance and on-the-ball quality to enable midfield control. De Bruyne completes the City midfield trio and injects additional goal and assist threat from the centre of the park, while ticking all the right boxes in his possession game, energy and movement.

CANTONA AS A FALSE 9

I cannot help but feel Cantona would love to play as the centre-piece in a Pep-styled attack. He can use his physical presence to hold the ball in, his exceptional technique to drop off the defence and into the hole, and then his vision and craft to thread in runners. With Suarez and Salah surging though, Cantona has top quality outlets. Behind him the elite ball-retainers in Bernardo Silva, Rodri, De Bruyne and Trent ensure he will receive the ball frequently and the limelight he craves.

TEAM SKIZZO

I've assembled a team of Premier League stalwarts who have all won major honours and many of whom have been discussed as all time legends of the Premier League Era. The team itself is a 433/451 with a fairly direct style. All players are fairly well known, so rather than go into detail about who they are, I'll go over their credentials and why I selected chose them to be included. Between them, they have the following titles and awards:

TEAM HONOURS
Premier League Titles - 14
FA Cups - 14
League Cups - 5
Champions League - 5
PL TOTY - 8

Every player in the team has won trophies and had a consistent output at a high level. Impressive collection of awards, although with Frank Lampard and Ryan Giggs in the team, those numbers might look skewed. The numbers above however, don't include either of them. Their stats and awards are highlighted here separately.

Ryan Giggs
PL Appearances - 632
PL Goals - 109
PL Assists - 162 (Premier League Record)
PL Titles - 13
FA Cups - 4
League Cup - 3
Champions League - 2
PFA Young Player of the Year - 2
PFA Team of the Century
PFA Player of the Year - 1

Premier League Records
Most assists
Most titles
First Man Utd player to score 100 goals
Second midfielder to score 100 goals for a single club

Frank Lampard
PL Appearances - 609
PL Goals - 177
PL Assists - 102
PL Titles - 3
FA Cups - 4
League Cup - 2
Champions League - 1
FWA Footballer of the Year - 2005
PL Player of the Year - 1
PFA Team of the Year - 3
FIFPro World XI - 1
UEFA Midfielder of the Year - 2008
Chelsea Player of the Year - 3
Chelsea's All Time Leading Goalscorer

Nemanja Vidic and Rio Ferdinand
Both of these players accomplishments are also left out of the above statistics, and they warrant being highlighted on their own. Voted as the Premier League's Best ever partnership, Rio and Nemanja complemented each other in all the best ways, bringing the best out of each other, forming a real friendship, and raising each others game to the point of winning multiple Premier League Title's, a Champion's League Trophy, and others. Nemanja Vidic is also one of only three players who have been voted Premier League Player of the Year on two occasions, the others being Thierry Henry and Cristiano Ronaldo. Not bad company.

So between Peter Schmeichel, Ashley Cole, Rio Ferdinand, Nemanja Vidic, and Ryan Giggs, we have five players who make a consensus All Time PL XI. Frank Lampard is in with a shout of making it too.

How we'll play and why I think we'll win:

• Our defense is put together with the best center back pairing, the best left back, the best goalkeeper, and the defender Sir Alex claimed was the "best natural defender" in the squad. The midfield added N'golo Kante, the man who almost single-handedly ran himself into the ground to drive Chelsea over the finish line against Man City in the Champions League final.
• We have players comfortable on the ball from the back to the front. Schmeichel can launch the ball forward with his long throws to the wing. Rio and Cole are both comfortable on the ball, Alonso and Kante could spray passes short and long, and both wide players can carry the ball forward to relieve pressure when needed.
• Our game plan would be to attack with quick, direct play forward. Once we win the ball, we have multiple outlets who can spring an attack vertically, leaving Giggs and Anderton to run one on one against their full backs. Quick transitions would create open areas to attack, and leave space for runners from deep to come in and arrive late in the box.
• Defensively, we'd keep it compact, with Alonso looking to sit in and cut off passing channels, and Kante pressuring like only he can. We have players who are all comfortable working in a deeper line with a quick transition to offense. With Rio-Vidic, Cole, Schmeichel, Kante, we have a solid defensive base to soak up the oppositions possession.
• Offensively, Drogba was the ultimate big game player. More on him later, but he's the exact type of striker you'd want in a soak-and-break tactic. With wide players who would stay wide, Drogba as the target man, a runner from deep in Lampard, and Alonso in the midfield, we have the ability to quickly bypass the opposition's press and put pressure on his defense with a quick transition.

 

[General_Elegancia]

Extra information from Skizzo

Since Russian billionaire Roman Abramovich took over the club in 2003, Chelsea have made winning trophies a habit. As of July 31, 2020 the Blues have been the most successful club in English football since 2003, having won 11 out of 15 finals.

And a large reason for the Blues’ enviable record in cup finals is their former striker Didier Drogba. The Ivorian was part of ten finals, eight out of which Chelsea went on to win. Incredibly, Drogba was on the scoresheet in each of those eight wins. He was the Blues’ go-to man on the big stage and he almost always delivered.

Drogba's performance in cup finals

No of goals scored	Opponent	Tournament	Result
1	Liverpool	2005 League Cup final	Chelsea win 3-2 AET
2	Arsenal	2007 League Cup final	Chelsea win 2-1
1	Manchester United	2007 FA Cup final	Chelsea win 1-0
1	Tottenham Hotspur	2008 League Cup final	Tottenham win 2-1
0	Manchester United	2008 Champions League final	Manchester United win on penalties
1	Everton	2009 FA Cup final	Chelsea win 2-1
1	Portsmouth	2010 FA Cup final	Chelsea win 1-0
1	Liverpool	2012 FA Cup final	Chelsea win 2-1
1	Bayern Munich	2012 Champions League final	Chelsea win on penalties
0	Tottenham Hotspur	2015 League Cup final	Chelsea win 2-0

Drogba’s record in cup finals is bettered only by Lionel Messi and Robert Lewandowski who both have higher goals per game ratio in cup finals than the Ivorian. However, Drogba has a better record in finals than Cristiano Ronaldo.

Record in cup finals of top goalscorers

Player	Goals per game ratio
Robert Lewandowski	1.16
Lionel Messi	1
Didier Drogba	0.9
Cristiano Ronaldo	0.78

Drogba’s record being almost as good as that of Messi is a fine achievement for a striker who largely played in a defensive / counterattacking set-up. The other three in the list played in more attack-minded teams with a lot of creative players. In the case of Lewandowski, the level of opponents he has faced isn’t the same as that of what Drogba faced.

In England, though, his record in cup finals is almost unmatched. He is the only player to score in three League Cup finals, only player to score in four FA Cup finals and only player to score in both the finals in the same year.



One-man attack

The former Chelsea striker was often his team’s one-man attack and carried his team in the biggest of games. Often having to feed on scraps against superior opponents, Drogba produced the goods under extreme pressure while at times feeding on scraps.

He is only behind Ian Rush in terms of total FA Cup final goals scored.

His contribution to Chelsea’s 2012 Champions League win was a fine example of what impact the African striker could have on a game.

Drogba scored a brace in Chelsea’s final group game against Valencia where the Blues needed to win to keep their hopes alive of advancing to the knockout stage. In the Round of 16, he netted Chelsea’s first goal that triggered a comeback 4-1 win over Napoli in the second leg.

Then once again in the semi-finals, Drogba scored Chelsea’s only goal in a 1-0 victory over Barcelona in semi-final first leg.

Most importantly though, the Ivorian stepped up in the final against Bayern Munich scoring an 88th-minute equaliser for Chelsea. The Blues went on to win the final on penalties beating Bayern on their own patch, a feat that wouldn’t have been possible without Drogba’s big-game mentality.



King of Wembley

Apart from finals, Drogba had a fine record in semi-finals and other big games against the top sides in England. Arsenal suffered the most at the hands of the Ivorian who scored 13 times in 15 matches against the Gunners.

Wembley was Drogba’s second home and he scored eight times at the home of English football. Only Harry Kane, Dele Alli and Heung-Min Son have scored more at the stadium than the Ivorian, but considering the stadium was Tottenham’s home ground for almost two seasons, Drogba’s feat is extraordinary.

“To have him in your team in a final,” Frank Lampard had said “you felt Didier in the dressing room before a big game that it was a different Didier, he was like an animal.

The winning mentality that he brought to the club is now, arguably, a part of the DNA at Stamford Bridge. Without a doubt, as far as success in English football is concerned, Didier Drogba is the king of the cup finals.

 

[General_Elegancia]

Another Extra information from Skizzo

The Champions League Final of 2021 will be remembered as the night when Manchester City sent out an excess of midfielders, a tripling-up of midfielders, a team clogging every hole with essence of midfielder. In an odd twist Chelsea did pretty much the same, albeit in more targeted fashion. Enter, N’Golo Kanté, the one-man midfield overload.

There was a moment in the second half at the Estádio do Dragão when Kanté drew gasps and purrs around the plastic seats, a sense of one man taking the endgame into his own hands.

Riyad Mahrez had set off on a feinting run across the edge of the area, seeking space for a left-foot shot. Kanté waited, waited a little longer, then took the ball away so cleanly Mahrez just kept on running in the same direction, like a riderless horse cantering on down the winning straight. And yes. These were gasps for an interception.

But then, this is Kanté, a footballer so clean in his positioning, his timing, his movement, that on nights like these he makes deep midfield control into a kind of physical art form.

Look at the numbers and Manchester City controlled possession and territory on Saturday night. Watch the game and this never felt like domination, not with Kanté there. You can play in his part of the pitch. But there is no comfort here, no safety.

Chelsea’s progress to a second Champions League title has been marked by unity and clarity of purpose. Thomas Tuchel’s team have beaten the champions of Spain, the regal old 13-time winners and now the most powerful squad of players in Europe. Through this Kanté has been a constant in the knockout stages, an unstarry, entirely natural general-in-the-field, and also a note of something else.

Before Saturday’s final all the talk had been about the completion of the Manchester City project, the 10-year destiny-cycle of Pep Guardiola. This was the story of a dominant tactical style, a soft power project, a victory narrative that seemed to offer its own arc of cause and effect.

What does Chelsea winning it mean? What model is there here? Employ lots of managers? Talent-hoard attacking players? One of the most intriguing parts is its lack of any obvious narrative. There is no logic, no design, just a series of expertly managed interventions. Get a very good coach. Panic-fix on the hoof. Play without fear. Oh. And make sure N’Golo’s in the team.

It is six years now since Kanté completed his late bloom from the third tier of French football to the Premier League. Leicester signed him on the data. His numbers on tackles, turnovers and the rest were outside the normal curve. Something odd was happening. Either the numbers were off, or this understated 5ft 6in central midfielder was simply playing at the wrong level, a lacuna in the system.

Aged 30, there is a feeling now of a footballer fast-forwarded into a state of completeness. The Champions League makes it four major honours under four Chelsea managers, one player of the year gong and one World Cup. Since Tuchel took over Kanté has played in only two defeats, the FA Cup final and the second-leg game against Porto. Kanté doesn’t score or make the final pass. He doesn’t beat his chest or assert his own leader-legend status. But the same things keep happening around. All he does is win.

The numbers were good again on Saturday night. Kanté won all his tackles, made two interceptions, three clearances, four headers. More than this there was the spectacle too, the powerfully reassuring sight of that commanding and upright figure, the way he times his interventions, the way he keeps the ball to allow his defence to form again behind him, or releases it quickly when the game ahead demands it.

Kanté isn’t simply a tackler or a runner, he’s a mobile brain, an agent of cohesion. Most tellingly he’s human kryptonite to the false nine system that continues, 15 years on from its Pep-led renaissance, to baffle more rigid defensive structures.

Kanté is a living countermeasure, always alive in Porto to the spaces when his defenders were drawn out in search of someone to mark. False nine, you say? Meet Chelsea’s false four, a midfielder who sees those in-between spaces from the other side, who also knows how they work.

The other thing Kanté does is make players close to him better. He didn’t so much cover Reece James in Porto as linger close by, only occasionally offering a double barrier against Raheem Sterling.

James defended brilliantly one on one and showed that same Kanté-style assertive calm. There has been talk he might be cut from England’s Euros squad in the crush of right-backs. Perhaps, while he’s at it, Gareth Southgate should consider tying his own shoelaces together and repeatedly poking his first-choice goalkeeper in the eye.

Mason Mount produced a fine pass for game’s only goal. And as with Kanté it is necessary to be present in the stadium to appreciate his movement and his intelligence as a covering player. With Kanté and Mount functioning in their own parts of the pitch Chelsea have the game on a constant strangle, opponents subject always to a base level of ambient pressure.

In Kanté’s case those levels were maintained in Porto while carrying the injuries that have turned his season into a mess of pain management and enforced absence. He needs a rest. The Premier League season starts again a month after the Euros.

And for Tuchel there is an entirely separate job now of building a team with the deeper gears to keep winning through a full league season. The basis of that mature Tuchel Chelsea – and he should get at least until November – will surely emerge from the younger players.

But as every successful Chelsea manager has twigged, Tuchel included, Kanté is the great hidden gift in this group of players, a binding thread through successive mini-eras. It seems odd now that Kanté only ever played 40 games at Leicester. For all the glory of that single season, Chelsea has basically been his club career, Saturday night in Porto its apex.

Player of the Match N’Golo Kante did not concede a foul in the whole game. Not one. He did that while also winning the most duels (11) and making the most ball recoveries (10) in the final.

Another perfectly on-brand stat for Kante -- he won four aerial duels on the night, the most by any Chelsea player. This from the shortest player on the pitch. Kante was also Player of the Match in both legs of Chelsea's semifinal against Real Madrid

@Skizzo

 

[General_Elegancia]

Such a bloody hell from @Skizzo, I really like it, it shows your unmatched dedication and desire to win.

Good luck both of you @Šjor Bepo @Skizzo @Gio

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Oh, this is close. I thought Gio was running away with his boss build, but Skizzo has put up a superb balancing act here.

Skizzo's d is just perfect. That CB duo is the GOAT and Brown/Cole are just perfect for dealing with wing forwards. Rate Brown especially high and injuries notwithstanding, he could have been so much more. Good blend on creativity and workrate and Drogba is a big game player.
Gio's attack is just sublime and with a top notch midfield to support his.

Giggs vs Trent would be fun to watch.

Giving this to Skizzo for his D and believe he counters Gio's strength's well and has the juice to scrap out a 1-0 win.

 

[crappycraperson]

I don't rate Rodri that highly to do the sole defensive job with two AMs playing in front of him. I also am not convinced of Suarez Eric combo up top.

 

[Gio]

Drogba’s record in cup finals is bettered only by Lionel Messi and Robert Lewandowski who both have higher goals per game ratio in cup finals than the Ivorian.

And Cantona may only have played in 3 finals, but he's got 3 goals in those which means he too has a better goals-per-game record than Drogba in finals. It's even better in England, with 3 goals in 2 finals. And some of these comparisons would probably include the Charity Shield which makes Cantona's record 7 goals in 4 games. The guy was every bit the dig-your-team-out-of-a-hole talisman that Drogba was for Chelsea.

To illustrate how much of a talisman he was, here is the English Premier League table at the end of February 1996:

Newcastle are 9 points clear. At the start of March they welcome United to St James Park, pummel them, and Cantona scores a scarcely deserved winner.




Onto QPR and United are losing going into the 93rd minute...



Big game at Arsenal and the scores are deadlocked until...




United move onto Spurs and are struggling in the second half until Cantona picks up the ball just inside the opposition half...




The big games come thick and fast as United are away to City.




Now can United capitalise with an easier game. They're not breaking down Coventry until...



Starting with that Newcastle game, he scored in 6 consecutive league games, grabbing the winner in four 1-0 victories, a last-minute equaliser in a 1-1 draw, and a goal and 2 assists in a 3-2 win in the Manchester derby. Every. Single. Goal. Cantona. Had. A. Hand. In. He single-handedly killed Kevin Keegan's title dreams.

Have you ever seen a title swing like it?

Capped it off in May with the winner - another goal from outside the box - in yet another 1-0 victory in the FA Cup Final.




What also made that run special was both the calibre of the opposition in turning over all the best teams in England at the time - Newcastle, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs - and the quality of the goals - the ice-cold downward volley against Newcastle, the chest control and long-range volley cracked in off the bar over Seaman, the take in a crowded midfield, run and outside-the-box finish against Spurs, and the controlled volley in an awkward position against Liverpool. No easy goals in there, just pulling rabbits out the hat week after week. Rarely has a player produced such a series of singularly influential performances at the exact right time in the season - to not only drag his team-mates over the line, but to break the hearts of the challengers who had led all campaign.

 

[Gio]

I don't rate Rodri that highly to do the sole defensive job with two AMs playing in front of him. I also am not convinced of Suarez Eric combo up top.

I'd sort of get that if those were two midfielders who didn't track back or whose defensive effort was lacking. But to be fair Bernardo Silva is the quintessential modern midfielder who runs all day and keeps the ball impeccably well. I mean we don't have to go back very far to see that in action:



And De Bruyne is cut from the same cloth. In 2018/19 he averaged 12.3km a game in the Premier League, which is ridiculously high. His whole X-factor is that combination of creativity and his two-way box-to-box game.

Without the ball these players are top quality. I try to convince them to run like the most humble team in the world.

If they don’t do that they don’t play - they sit beside me on the bench. I can forgive everything - but if they don’t run, they don’t play.

You have to run in football. People say a lot of things. Our physicality is always good. That is one of our secrets - more than tactics, spirit. you try to run.

The other, very compelling point is that this trio has been solid on and off the ball - as evidenced by their ridiculous - real-life - success together as a unit. You throw in the pressing from the front, especially with the hustle and energy of Suarez and Salah, alongside the dominating high line that Van Dijk and Dias are proven in commanding, and it gives the midfield the right conditions to shine.

 

[Jim Beam]

Would have left Modric in the side. You still have City blueprint, but Modric gives you a bit more penetration and they are pretty comparable defensively. Understand giving the edge to Silva considering the theme though.

It's a tough one for sure, Skizzo's defence is best in the draft (with that midfield in front), but so is Gio's attack. Don't buy for a second Skizzo's defence would have it relatively easy. They would have a horrid time dealing with Salah and Suarez on each side while being occupied with Cantona in the middle. On the other hand, think Rodri will have problems keeping up with Lampard. Skizzo midfield is beautifully balanced though and it has just about a right amount of everything in there (did already mentioned it, but worth saying again). Think it would be great if Skizzo doubled it down and had someone someone like Park and not Anderton on that right side though, but as for midfield itself, it's hard to see better units outthere.
As I already said, tough call for sure.

It would be interesting to see Cantona leading a Pep assembled team btw. Being a highly individualistic and maverick his whole playing career you have to wonder a bit would he be that disciplined in such a structured attack and approach. For what is worth, I do appreciate boldness behind the idea and as I say for me, that's without a doubt the best attack of the draft. No one comes even close.

Have you ever seen a title swing like it?

No. When you put it together with the FA Cup final, it was the most decisive season that any individual manage to produce in EPL era.
Gathered, lifted and carried the whole team on his back in an unprecedented way.

 

[Skizzo]

In regards to Cantona, I don’t think his performances in those finals were playing in a false nine setup. Obviously he was a big game player and dragged United across the finish line at times when needed, but let’s not pretend he was doing it in a false nine Pep Guardiola setup. It also wasn’t with a wide forward cutting in like Suarez, who I feel is better through the middle

Also in terms of his performances against the peak teams around them when challenging for a title. His performances against the other “top 6” teams wasn’t particularly breathtaking.

Let's start with Eric Cantona. Cantona scored 70 goals in 156 games for both Leeds United and Manchester United. While at United, he won five EPL titles before retiring in 1997. The King, however, did not have an outstanding record against the aforementioned six teams, scoring nine goals and assisting five goals across 38 games.

Cantona's most impressive EPL performances came up against his former team Leeds, against whom he scored three goals and assisted one in eight games. One thing to be noted here is that the main EPL title rivals in the prime of Cantona's career were Blackburn against whom the Frenchman had five-goal contributions in seven games. His record (GPG - 0.24) is not bad at all, but it isn't amazing either.

compared to a Drogba, who came to the fore in those big title deciding matches.

Drogba's goal-scoring record (GPG of 0.41) in games against the top six EPL sides of his era is not nearly as good as the strikers we've analysed, but what puts him in this top-5 list is his goal contributions. With 19 assists, Drogba had 40 goal contributions in 51 games against the EPL's top-6, which is huge and makes a significant difference. He has more APG than any other EPL striker we have analysed, and for this reason alone, he makes the top 5.

Keeping in mind that Drogba was often the sole striker in his system at Chelsea, and is almost the sole reason why the one striker formations came to the forefront during his time in England.

 

[Skizzo]

Also in regards to @crappycraperson ppint regarding Rodri, it was one of the key areas to exploit in the Tottenham win over city recently.


Recap

Everybody knows the best way to hurt Manchester City is to launch direct counterattacks that try to get behind their high back-line.

However, almost nobody achieves these, largely because City’s press after they lose possession rushes the other team into scrambling the ball clear – and thus the chance of breaking quickly disappears.

Spurs, however, were a constant threat thanks to the precision of their three-point moves, which – as Harry Kane said in his post-game interview – had been devised and practised in training throughout the week until the players did not have to think or look before acting.

Consequently, they got the passes away before City had a chance to press, and the opening goal was the best example of a trick repeated over and over.

Recognising Rodri is left alone at the base of midfield as the two eights roam forward (a weak point throughout the season for City), Conte instructed Kane to drop into the gaps around the Spanish midfielder.

Kane’s team-mates would then look to feed him the ball at every opportunity, which itself was a trigger for Kulusevski and Heung-Min Son to start their runs in behind.

This forced City to scramble backwards, destabilising their shape and providing Spurs with multiple opportunities – starting with that opening goal in the fourth minute.

—————————-

with Xabi Alonso and Kante being fairly press resistant, they’d have a great ability to put those quick passes in to the front and beat the press with vertical balls forward prior to the defense getting set. Rodri wouldn’t like Lampard running off him from a deeper position in midfield and I think he’d struggle to set himself and be in the right place with the quick transitions.

 

[Jim Beam]

Also in terms of his performances against the peak teams around them when challenging for a title. His performances against the other “top 6” teams wasn’t particularly breathtaking.

Who are these top 6 out of curiosity? Tottenham, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, maybe Everton... Think those are traditional top 6 with United.

As you mentioned he scored 5 in 7 against Blackburn and while City was far cry from the team it is now, it was always Manchester Derby. He has 8 goals and 3 assists in 7 games against City with United.

Another stat before the suspension and before he return to the season thats been described above.

Cantona had been involved in a club-high 18 goals in 21 Premier League appearances before the incident

Sorry, have to defend the King here a bit.

 

[Skizzo]

And while City and Liverpool have some overlap in terms of how they want to press, TAA has come into quite a bit of criticism for his performances and his struggles, and I think his lapses may cause concern in a system like Pep’s where he’s rotated full backs quite often for struggling to handle his tactical requirements.

Spoiler: Defensive position

Worried Liverpool fans noted how Trent Alexander-Arnold appeared to be constantly out of position against Newcastle.

Alexander-Arnold started in his familiar right-back role at Anfield, and was as deadly as ever going forward.

Though his form at the back remains an issue with England bossrecently leaving the 22-year-old out of his Three Lions squad.

In the first half against the Magpies, Alexander-Arnold played Sean Longstaff on by about 10 yards as he was further back than his defensive colleagues.

It led to the Reds almost conceding though goalkeeper Alisson spared Alexander-Arnold’s blushes by making a fine save.

Though fans admitted that it’s not something a full-back can regularly be doing as Liverpool continue to find life tough in the Premier League.

One wrote on social media: “Trent Arnold as a RB and still playing opposition onside. That is really really terrible for a FB. You can just about forgive a CB but not a FB.”

While another added: “Trent loves keeping people on who have no right to be.”

And a third wrote: “Trent needs to work on that defensive line holding. Seems to be getting caught a lot.”

One other was a bit more harsh as they commented: “Trent hasn't a clue really does he.”

With one more Liverpool fan putting: “Could someone explain the offside trap to Trent.”

Southgate had explained his decision to drop Alexander-Arnold last month, saying: “There’s some areas of the pitch where we’ve got incredible competition for places and Trent’s very unfortunate.

Indeed, Inter’s biggest threat probably came down the left flank with Ivan Perisic a big cause of problems for Liverpool.

Alexander-Arnold certainly found the going tough against him and was beaten more than once by the Croatian.

After the game, Fowler was quick to highlight what Alexander-Arnold brings to the Liverpool side in an attacking sense.

But from a defensive aspect, he claims he’s a major weakness – and claims all is not lost for Inter Milan yet.

 

[Skizzo]

Who are these top 6 out of curiosity? Tottenham, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, maybe Everton... Think those are traditional top 6 with United.

As you mentioned he scored 5 in 7 against Blackburn and while City was far cry from the team it is now, it was always Manchester Derby. He has 8 goals and 3 assists in 7 games against City with United.

Another stat before the suspension and before he return to the season thats been described above.

Sorry, have to defend the King here a bit.

I agree Eric is somewhat of a talisman if you look at that United side, although sometimes his presence was enough, other times he really did take things upon himself, so please don’t take my comments as me saying he wasn’t up to snuff. Merely pointing out United at the time didn’t play a False-9 setup, and comparing numbers against Drogba in similar big games.

So who were the best six EPL teams in the 1990s? Manchester United were definitely up there as they six out of a possible eight EPL title during this period. Arsenal won one EPL title while finishing runner up on several occasions. Aston Villa were regular qualifiers for Europe and even put up a couple of EPL title challenges.

Liverpool recovered from a slow start to emerge strongly in the second half of the 1990s. Leeds United were a regular feature in the EPL top 5 throughout the 1990's bar a couple of seasons. The last spot will be a tough choice between Blackburn, Chelsea and Newcastle.

While Blackburn did win the EPL in one season, but after that, they were quite mediocre and to truly analyse who a big team is, we are looking for consistency. Newcastle were one of the defining EPL teams of the '90s and having mounted multiple EPL title challenges, it is impossible to ignore them. So Newcastle is the last EPL team in our analysis of the five best EPL strikers during the 1990s.

 

[Jim Beam]

I agree Eric is somewhat of a talisman if you look at that United side, although sometimes his presence was enough, other times he really did take things upon himself, so please don’t take my comments as me saying he wasn’t up to snuff. Merely pointing out United at the time didn’t play a False-9 setup, and comparing numbers against Drogba in similar big games.

Ah don't mind me, I see word Eric and I jump immediately. Those are some fair stats to bring up.

Was more wondering who were considered top 6 at the time considering it looks to be changing a lot depending on an era. For example, was sure Everton was part of it during one period. It looks like they were part of big 5, not big 6...

The "Big Five," as they were known in the late 1980s and early 1990s, were Arsenal, Tottenham, Manchester United, Liverpool and Everton.

 

[Skizzo]

Ah don't mind me, I see word Eric and I jump immediately. Those are some fair stats to bring up.

Was more wondering who were considered top 6 at the time considering it looks to be changing a lot depending on an era. For example, was sure Everton was part of it during one period. It looks like they were part of big 5, not big 6...

No apology needed, Eric was my reason for being a United supporter originally

in regards to the latter point, I’m sure it would change depending on who you ask and what criteria you use. “Traditional” or just performance wise etc etc. These stats seemed to be based on performance at the time, so while not necessarily traditionally big clubs, but maybe the best at the time of the era they were looking at.

 

[Gio]

Also in regards to @crappycraperson ppint regarding Rodri, it was one of the key areas to exploit in the Tottenham win over city recently.

I think the fact you have to hunt down 1 game out of every 10-20 where Rodri/Bernardo/KDB didn't win is indicative of the likelihood of these tactics succeeding. It's a solid counter-attacking set-up and one which could pick us off in the occasional game. But given our attacking superiority and on-the-ball ability, it's very likely we'd win the vast majority of, for example, 10 games between the sides. That's just the way this City team operates as proven by the record points totals they rack up. Parking the bus and hitting on the break comes off occasionally, but never frequently enough to move the odds into your favour.

 

[Gio]

Rodri's role at Man City explained: Pep Guardiola's master playmaker who now controls the counter-attacks too
https://www.skysports.com/football/...aker-who-now-controls-the-counter-attacks-too

Here's an extract - but read the article to show how well Rodri defends the counter-attack.

This season, after allowing three such situations in the defeat to Tottenham on the opening weekend, a game for which Rodri was an unused substitute, there have only been two in total in the 16 games that the midfielder has started.

In fact, according to Opta, it is now 14 games since City conceded a chance from a counter-attacking situation. That is by far the longest such sequence of any Premier League club right now and the longest sequence by City since Guardiola arrived in 2016.

After fears that Fernandinho could not be replaced, the situation has switched. City cannot control games as well without Rodri, as that Spurs game showed. His surprise omission from the Champions League final line-up is a decision Guardiola would surely not repeat.

Rodri now ranks among the top tier of holding midfielders, a playmaker and a presence. "He is set up perfectly in the Premier League already." And there is time to improve. "He is 25 years old, he is still young." A vital player for the next decade, after all.

 

[harms]

It's interesting as I've often thought of how Chelsea 04/05 would fare against modern City. Out of every great Premier League side I'd imagine that they'd have the best chance of beating them.

Anderton - Brown flank is solid but it stands out a bit compared to the quality of personnel in literally any other area of the pitch.

 

[Skizzo]

I think the fact you have to hunt down 1 game out of every 10-20 where Rodri/Bernardo/KDB didn't win is indicative of the likelihood of these tactics succeeding. It's a solid counter-attacking set-up and one which could pick us off in the occasional game. But given our attacking superiority and on-the-ball ability, it's very likely we'd win the vast majority of, for example, 10 games between the sides. That's just the way this City team operates as proven by the record points totals they rack up. Parking the bus and hitting on the break comes off occasionally, but never frequently enough to move the odds into your favour.

I didn’t “hunt” anything down, it just happened to be one of the first things to pop up. Most teams don’t have the benefit of counter attacking with our players here. There’s a difference between Alonso-Kante-Lampard and Jonjo Shelvey.

 

[Skizzo]

It's interesting as I've often thought of how Chelsea 04/05 would fare against modern City. Out of every great Premier League side I'd imagine that they'd have the best chance of beating them.

Anderton - Brown flank is solid but it stands out a bit compared to the quality of personnel in literally any other area of the pitch.

If you look at “name brand” then I agree that it lacks the pizzazz of the rest of the players. Functionally and ability wise they fit the bill in my (obviously biased) opinion. Both their reputations suffered somewhat through injuries, but looking at their peaks, they have favourable resumes. One keeping Beckham off the wing for England, the other being the “best natural defender” SAF has seen. I think they keep a strong, hard working right flank from being overrun on that side.

Giggs-Cole being the flashy left wing to balance it out

 

[General_Elegancia]

@Gio excellent team. For me, I would send Modric on the pitch and play him as rcm instead KDB and then I will drop Bernado and put KDB to the lcm instead of him. I think Trent-Arnold wants a bit of cover from right central midfielder, although in this season he has developed his defensive actions. De Bryune for me is a hard-working midfielder for sure, he runs like a hot-head chicken but I would send him to another side(left side) for not concerning too much about cover Trent . Modric for me is an excellent player for covering wide and attacking full-back and I probably rate him as a better defensive player too. De Bryune to the left side with Irwin who I consider as a great defensive player will have more freedom to making his magic, creating chances and supporting 3 attackers and he will save his energy for attacking-phase too, not concern too much about being help defender.

Henderson as a rcm for Liverpool, sometimes even position at rb in defensive- phase for organize Liverpool's backline in back4 shape and this would happen when Trent is out of position or run down to defense too late.

 

[Gio]

For all the debate about my proven City midfield unit, it's pretty obvious that Xabi Alonso is the weakest defender of the 6 midfielders on the park. That to me seems like more of a concern given just how devastating De Bruyne is breaking from the centre of the park. Even moreso when you throw in Bernardo's slipperiness in 1v1 situations. Alonso cannot delegate all the defensive stuff to Kante as both of our 8s will ask questions.

Now I love Alonso a lot - he's one of my favourite playmakers of all time, but he was pretty hopeless when attacking midfielders ran at him. He had little option but to hack them down in most cases. Alonso racked up 200 yellow cards in his career - the 4th highest of all time and the most yellow-carded midfielder in the history of the game! With De Bruyne and Bernardo dribbling at him, with Cantona getting onto his wrong side, it's quite likely he'll get an early yellow and then have to let them skip past him, with all the consequences that entails.

 

[Skizzo]

For all the debate about my proven City midfield unit, it's pretty obvious that Xabi Alonso is the weakest defender of the 6 midfielders on the park. That to me seems like more of a concern given just how devastating De Bruyne is breaking from the centre of the park. Even moreso when you throw in Bernardo's slipperiness in 1v1 situations. Alonso cannot delegate all the defensive stuff to Kante as both of our 8s will ask questions.

Now I love Alonso a lot - he's one of my favourite playmakers of all time, but he was pretty hopeless when attacking midfielders ran at him. He had little option but to hack them down in most cases. Alonso racked up 200 yellow cards in his career - the 4th highest of all time and the most yellow-carded midfielder in the history of the game! With De Bruyne and Bernardo dribbling at him, with Cantona getting onto his wrong side, it's quite likely he'll get an early yellow and then have to let them skip past him, with all the consequences that entails.

We can look at the Premier League website for those stats, since that seems more relevant than career stats since we aren't basing them outside of their PL time.

Xabi Alonso
Appearances - 143
Yellow Cards - 24
.16

Rodri
Appearances - 92
Yellow Cards - 19
.20

Since we'd be sitting back in and attacking quickly on the transition, it would seem that Rodri would be more likely to commit a foul to stop a quick transition and get that early yellow card.

If we are looking outside of the PL though as well, comparing those stats to Rodri's 15 yellow cards in 97 appearances in La Liga, it would appear he's having a harder time adjusting either to the specific tactics leaving him more open, or the speed of the league in general. Either way, Rodri gets more yellow cards in England in less games than he did in Spain, and is on track to get more yellow cards in less games than Alonso. That's with Alonso being the "worst defender" and Rodri being a specialized DM.

 

[Gio]

Granted Alonso has a slightly cleaner record in the PL, but that was in the mid-2000s when the game was a little tougher and it was harder to rack up yellows. I think the point stands that Alonso is the weakest defensive link. Rodri is an imposing physical specimen, stands 6ft 3', reads and intercepts danger well, shutting off counter attacks. I don't think either Kante or Lampard, on the odd occasion they do get forward, are posing dangers that aren't within his compass to deal with. Alonso - again as much as I like him - doesn't have those attributes and is especially vulnerable to the type of threats posed by De Bruyne and Silva. That's the difference for me.

 

[Skizzo]

It’s different setups though entirely. Alonso isn’t playing as a sole DM in a system where he would be left as the last hope of stopping a blistering counterattack on his own. We’re sat deeper, and he’s surrounded by players who all work hard defensively, and backed up by the best defense and goalkeeper in the draft.

Rodri is playing as the sole DM in a team that will have possession and hold it higher up the pitch. It’s different players in different systems and Lampard was a master of breaking from midfield, and I think Rodri would struggle with that type of movement and quick vertical transition.

Regarding the earlier comment too regarding things only working one out of ten times against City, disregards the style that Mourinho’s Chelsea used to dominate at their peak. At the time, you’d be looking at styles to beat them and saying one out of ten times it may work against them. This is comparing styles of different eras.

Mourinho’s first season shows how dominant they were in their style, with Lampard in particular being on top form.

Frank Lampard seem to be the key man in Chelsea’s 2004-05 season, netting 13 times in the Premier League and 19 times in all competitions en route to their success. He also ended up becoming the top assist provider in the league, providing on 18 occasions.

STATISTICS RECORDED (LEAGUE ONLY)

• Matches Played – 38
• Games won – 29
• Games drawn – 8
• Games lost – 1
• Goals scored – 72
• Goals conceded – 15
• Clean sheet – 25

AWARDS & TEAM OF THE YEAR

• Jose Mourinho – Premier League Manager Of The Season
• Petr Cech – Golden Gloves & PFA TOTY
• John Terry – PFA Player Of The Year & PFA TOTY
• Frank Lampard – PFA Fans Player Of The Year, Premier League Player Of The Season & PFA TOTY

 

[Skizzo]

The following season wasn’t any less impressive either.

The season was momentous for Chelsea's record-breaking start to the Premier League season where they won their opening 9 games in a row and recorded 6 consecutive clean sheets from the outset of the campaign.The Blues proceeded to claim 20 wins from their first 22 league games, the strongest start recorded to a title defence in the Premier League era. As of 2020, Chelsea 2005–06 hold joint Premier League records for most wins at home in a season (18) and fewest home defeats in a season (0).They were also the first Premier League team to win against every single team in a season.

 

[harms]

If you look at “name brand” then I agree that it lacks the pizzazz of the rest of the players. Functionally and ability wise they fit the bill in my (obviously biased) opinion. Both their reputations suffered somewhat through injuries, but looking at their peaks, they have favourable resumes. One keeping Beckham off the wing for England, the other being the “best natural defender” SAF has seen. I think they keep a strong, hard working right flank from being overrun on that side.

Oh, it's certainly very functional and it's not a weak point (neither in defense or in attack). But, as you say, it lacks a bit of pizzazz, especially compared to what you & Gio have on the wings.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

this teams are too good to separate, will have to think of something to ruin them all before the final

 

[Skizzo]

Also a few things to see here. Giggs on the break in open field causing chaos and creating a goal after attacking the box on a quick counter…and Anderton on the other side with his delivery from set pieces resulting in two goals.

 

[Skizzo]

this teams are too good to separate, will have to think of something to ruin them all before the final

You’re spending too much time with @Edgar Allan Pillow

 

[Gio]

@Jim Beam @General_Elegancia The thinking behind Bernardo was firstly because he replicates the proven partnerships with De Bruyne and Rodri. Those synergies in midfield being really important in playing quickfire instinctive passes to break through defensive lines. And secondly because I love the way he can overload by rotating positions. The goal he set up for KDB against United a really good example of him doing just that and exposing a weakness in a wide area. That is something he could well do here up against a relatively underwhelming right flank.

 

[TheReligion]

Interesting battle this one; on one hand I feel that @Skizzo has the better core. Schmeichel, Rio, Vidic, Kante, Xabi. I prefer them to Alisson, VVD, Dias, Rodri.

On the other hand Suarez, Cantona, Salah has everything really. Drogba doesn’t have a good overall scoring record and I think in isolation Skizzo is short of firepower whilst @Gio has plenty and the creativity to deliver.

Tough one

 

[Skizzo]

Interesting battle this one; on one hand I feel that @Skizzo has the better core. Schmeichel, Rio, Vidic, Kante, Xabi. I prefer them to Alisson, VVD, Dias, Rodri.

On the other hand Suarez, Cantona, Salah has everything really. Drogba doesn’t have a good overall scoring record and I think in isolation Skizzo is short of firepower whilst @Gio has plenty and the creativity to deliver.

Tough one

Highest scoring seasons

Drogba
09/10 - 37 in all comps
06/07 - 33 in all comps
Bearing in mind Drogba was used to playing as a lone striker, and often in a isolated setup to bring other into the play. He also worked fantastically well with

Lampard
05/06-09/10 - five straight seasons of 20+ goals, with a high of 27, plus 19 the year before, and three more seasons after with 10+

compared to:
Suarez
Four seasons in England
4 goals
17 goals
30 goals
31 goals

Salah
Consistent scorer, high of 44, but then his other highest total is lower than either of Drogba’s.

De Bruyne and Silva barely have higher tally’s than Kante, and that’s probably skewed by playing more offensive positions, sometimes leading the line, and by being in a dominant team. Cantona only broke 20 goals on one occasion, and here is playing an entirely different system and position than used to.

All in all, not vastly different, especially when you consider we have a far superior defense, and Suarez and Cantona are playing positions they aren’t used to, or played when they hit their highest peaks. Sometimes the sum of the parts can complement each other and elevate (like I imagine our midfield would) and in others I think they can be more of a detriment having the main players from different teams put together (Suarez-Cantona) where they may not mesh as well.

 

[Skizzo]

Heading in to work for shift now, so probably won’t be around much for a while.

been a fun battle so far as always @Gio

 

[General_Elegancia]

Some Interesting information about Trent in this season

I've seen so many times in this season that Trent isn't a one trick pony crosser from the right side anymore. In this season, he has been drifting to central area a lot more than previous seasons, has more freedom in term of movements too. The key person who encourage this tactics to be successful is "Henderson", who would go to right back position to give Trent more freedom both attacking and defending.

Henderson went to right back and Arnold drifted to central-area.

He could do that due to Henderson replacement as false right-back.

This picture is a great show of Trent's changing during few years.

Henderson too, he changes a bit in positional play for using Trent's biggest strengths, he has increased the number of touches he is taking in wide positions on the right hand side.

Henderson & Trent Creativity
The inevitability of their roles this season is a change in the output of both players. The most obvious of which is in how often they cross the ball.

In the Premier League, Trent has been crossing the ball less often from open play compared to last season (3.8 vs 5.9 open play crosses per 90), while Henderson has been crossing more (2.3 vs 1.5).


Naturally, you may be thinking that this could stifle Alexander-Arnold’s creative contributions. Thankfully for Liverpool fans, it hasn’t. Compared to last season, he is actually creating more and even better quality chances for his teammates.

 

[Physiocrat]

Great debate leads. Really enjoyed reading this. Really hard to separate the sides. Will vote tomorrow

 

[Gio]

I also am not convinced of Suarez Eric combo up top.

Seems an odd one to object to. It's a fairly classic partnership - Cantona dropping into the hole, Suarez occupying and stretching the defenders ahead of him. Basically an upgrade on the Cantona/Cole partnership which served United well for much of the 1990s. Suarez's boundless energy and work-rate winning the ball back early, firing quick one-two's with the King, etc. As much of a one-man attack Suarez was for Liverpool, we also saw in Spain how brilliantly Suarez sparked off Messi who operated in a similar hole position.

 

[Gio]

Brown/Cole are just perfect for dealing with wing forwards. Rate Brown especially high and injuries notwithstanding, he could have been so much more.

For what it's worth the only time Suarez faced Brown in a Manchester United shirt, he was too hot to handle, setting up all the goals in a 3-1 win. The first is just ridiculous, cutting in from the left forward position, leaving 4 United players - including Brown - for dead.

Rest of the game here:



I rate Brown, but ideally he's the steady right-back behind a Cristiano tearing it up ahead of him. And even though his strengths were defensive, the quality of Suarez in 1v1 situations, combined with the overlapping of Bernardo, Irwin and interplay with Cantona and De Bruyne, may well prove too much for him here.

 

[Gio]

It's interesting as I've often thought of how Chelsea 04/05 would fare against modern City. Out of every great Premier League side I'd imagine that they'd have the best chance of beating them.

Anderton - Brown flank is solid but it stands out a bit compared to the quality of personnel in literally any other area of the pitch.

One of the advantages for me of that flank being fairly flat is that it allows us to seriously overload on that side. Irwin's combination game, something he used to do so well with Cantona in particular, is textbook for engineering those overloads. Same for Bernardo too going inside and outside. City have this ability to get to the bye-line to cut it back for a tap-in through having those types of players in wide areas. And I can see us reaching the bye-line on Skizzo's right-penalty-box area in a similar manner quite often in this game.