Pre Premier League Draft Round 1 - OneNil vs Frank Grimes

[Indnyc]

This is a Pre Premier League draft from 1971/72 to 1991/92 where managers assemble their squads by selecting players based on their playing performance during this time period only. Performances that fall outside this time period should not be considered. Neither should the players performance for their country/international tournaments be considered. As in any team, team tactics and balance also play a part.

Hence please carefully consider the abovesaid factors and evaluate the merits of both teams before voting for the team which in your opinion is likelier to win the match.

Team One Nil

VS

Team Frank Grimes



Tactics - Team OneNil

Fluid 4-4-2

European Cup winning pedigree with great technique and plenty of grit. Built to maximize Dalglish influence by providing a technical yet hard working foundation.

Building around the obvious Kenny Dalglish. Renowned for footballing intelligence and thinking 3 moves aheadl, the side is intended to provide the solid and versatile platform for Dalglish to truly shine. Clive Allen was a great all around striker with the technique, quick reaction and all-around skill to take advantage of Dalglish’s skill set. Allen’s best season saw him score 49 goals across all competitions and 33 in league.

The left flank is one of the most threatening possible in the draft. John Robertson, Nottingham Forest’s key player winning 2 European Cups. He scored the EC winning goal in 1980 and set up the game winning assist in 1979’s edition of the EC. He is backed up by Kenny Sansom, 8-time English First Division PFA Team of the Year selection. Sansom dominated his position in England from 79 to 87. He’ll provide support for Robertson and also defend the flank against any opposition.

The right flank is more tactical for this match. Michael Thomas plays as a right midfielder. He broke through at Arsenal with a great season at RB then was moved into midfield. His combination of technique, work rate and ‘big game’ ability brings an ‘X-factor’ to the team. He is support by the tough tackling and determined right back Gary Stevens. Stevens was one of Everton’s best players during their two league winning seasons. They also won an FA Cup and Cup Winners Cup.

Jan Mølby and Steve McMahon are the midfielders who operate in a unique manner. Mølby will play much like how Dalglish first played him when he won a League and FA Cup double. He began matches further back as a deep lying playmaker almost libero and then would move forward as the match wore on and opponents wore out. McMahon is the water carrier with all-around skills that can facilitate Mølby’s unique style perfectly. Mølby offers an elite passing range that offers many benefits to Robertson, Dalglish and Allen combined with an imposing physical frame.

Jimmy Rimmer, Larry Lloyd and Mark Wright comprise the last lines of defense. Two of these are European Cup winners for Villa and Forest. The other is selected because the manager forgot about big bad Willie Young. With two European Cup winners this is a stalwart wall that make it tough for any forwards to find joy

Tactics - Team Frank Grimes

Schmeichel - 20 clean sheets in all comps in the 91-92 season and already had established himself as one of the leagues best keepers.

Parker - Started his career as a CB but moved to RB where he won all his 19 England caps. England reached the World Cup semi-final in 1990 and Parker started every game bar the opening game. PFA team of the year in 1989.

Watson - Permanent fixture in the England team of the mid to late seventies earning 65 caps. Regularly made the PFA team of the year during this time.

Narey - 21 year career at Dundee Utd where he won a Scottish league championship in 1983 as well as 2 league cups. Reached the UEFA cup final in 1987 but lost 2-1 on aggregate against IFK Gothenburg. Scottish Hall of fame Inductee in 2010.

Malpas - Scottish FWA player of the season in 1991. Teammate of Narey and won the league in 1983 but also won the Scottish cup in 1994. Played in 2 World cups (1986,1990) and a Euros(1992). Another Scottish Hall of fame inductee.

Coppell - Manchester United and England winger who was a fan favourite of the late 70's and early 80's.

Giles - One of Ireland's greatest ever players who was a key member of the great Leeds side of the late sixties and early seventies. Formed a great understanding with Billy Bremner. He was a cultured footballer but could also be tough tackling if required. Matt Busby regarded letting him go as his biggest mistake.

Bremner - Inspirational captain and one of Leeds and Scotland's greatest ever players. Hard as nails but could play too and like Giles got his fair share of goals from midfield. Won the FWA player of the year in 1970. Voted Leeds Utd best player of all time.

Heighway - Pacey left winger who was a key player as Liverpool won loads of trophies throughout the seventies and early eighties. Played more centrally later in his Liverpool career.

Keegan - Superstar of the game in the seventies at Liverpool where he won it all. FWA player of the year in 1976 and even after his return from Germany he won the PFA player of the year in 1982. Industrious, brave and a match winner.

Toshack - Struck up a great partnership with Keegan where it was said they had an almost telepathic understanding. Was great in the air but was no slouch with his feet too.


TACTICS:

I will line up in a 4-4-2 formation with Keegan dropping a bit deeper (4-5-1) at times to help out the midfield. My midfield will gain control of the game as Giles and Bremner have a great understanding of each others game and are a better match up than Molby and McMahon. Molby is a great passer but I feel he lacks the mobility to deal with the all round game of Giles or Bremner. I feel I can gain an edge here.

I have a great threat from the wings and with Giles passing ability he can supplement both these players. In the centre I have a big target man in Toshack who can both score from the wingers supply(He played with and benefited from Heighway's delivery at Liverpool) or knock it down for Keegan(as he did countless times during their time together at Liverpool) or a runner from midfield.

Keegan also has the ability to drop deep and help out the midfield whilst out out of possession and the stamina to drive forward and hurt the opposition when regained by Bremner or Giles.

Overall I feel with the partnerships I have throughout my team (Giles, Bremner) (Keegan Toshack) and the pace and goal scoring threat I have on the wings and indeed from central midfield I will have enough to win this tie.

 

[Indnyc]

@oneniltothearsenal @Frank Grimes All the best

 

[Indnyc]

Going through both the teams, this is going to be another very close battle. Both teams look exceedingly good

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

This could be good.

Like the talent (Dalglish is the standout but loads of top players from the era on show) and @Frank Grimes has teammate linkups.

@Frank Grimes , what's your plan for Dalglish?

@oneniltothearsenal , what's your plan to nullify oppos attack (noting that midfield duo)?

Good luck.

 

[Gio]

Oooft tough one. Some really astute drafting going on here.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Goalies.

@Frank Grimes .... "sell" Schmeicel to us (given limited time in draft era)

@oneniltothearsenal .... same question. I remember the Villa final (bit like Forest or recently Leicester in that the sum was better than the parts) but Rimmer went off asap and Slink was the hero?

(Spink. Damn autocorrect.... Though it could have been worse?!)

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

This could be good.

Like the talent (Dalglish is the standout but loads of top players from the era on show) and @Frank Grimes has teammate linkups.

@Frank Grimes , what's your plan for Dalglish?

@oneniltothearsenal , what's your plan to nullify oppos attack (noting that midfield duo)?

Good luck.

Cheers. I have some time now before meetings.

It starts with the fullbacks. I feel I have one of the best pairs of full backs in the draft. They will need less help against the opponent’s wingers, whereas Robertson is going to cause a lot of problems and Thomas offers a number of different threats. With excellent passing all around the pitch, I feel I can switch the ball from flank to flank efficiently to keep the opponent unsettled.

Gary Stevens - outstanding forgotten era fullback.

Spoiler: Stevens Cross and Last minute stop

Kenny Sansom


Then I selected Michael Thomas for this match specifically based on the opposition. He worked harder than Limpar and his time for George Graham gives him the experience to help out in the midfield especially against Bremner and Giles who are in their post-30s ages. Thomas I feel is my x-factor here providing top work rate along with that knack for scoring key goals and contributing to the build up play.

I also feel tactically Thomas works well with Mølby to counter the opposition.

As I mentioned in the OP, in his best season Dalglish would use Mølby in unique way starting as almost a libero and moving further up the pitch. With Thomas’ work rate, intelligence and positioning he complements the unique task I have for Mølby .

“Mølby was a regular in his first season as a defensive midfielder until he had to make way for Kevin MacDonald halfway through the campaign. Mølby was undoubtedly Liverpool's best player in the double 1985/86 season as Dalglish had great belief in him. "I couldn't believe such a creative player was languishing in Liverpool reserves and I couldn't wait to use him," Dalglish later said. "Jan had unbelievable feet and I defied anybody to state categorically which was the stronger, because either foot could propel the ball at unbelievable speed towards goal." Mølby enjoyed his freedom under Dalglish, playing sweeper on occasion as well as shadow striker behind Rushie. He scored 21 goals in 58 matches and delivered a man-of-the-match performance in the 3-1 win over Everton in the FA Cup final. Mølby's most famous goal came in the fourth round of the League Cup on 26 November 1985. Paul McGrath had put United 1-0 up but with roughly half an hour to go the Dane took charge at Anfield. "I took the ball off Norman Whiteside inside our own half. I went on a run past three or four United players and then shot with my right foot from about 20 yards. Gary Bailey, the United 'keeper, still insists it was the hardest shot he had ever faced. It's true that from the moment it left my boot to the moment it hit the net Gary didn't see it." A minute later Mølby added another from the penalty spot adding to his legend as the most prolific penalty-taker in Liverpool's history, scoring 42 out of 45 penalties. The secret to his spot-kick success was fairly simple: "If the goalkeeper didn’t move before I struck my shot I would always put it low to his right but if he moved I would go the other way. I guess that’s not something you can teach somebody it’s just something in their make-up."

These combinations I feel counter the strength of the opponent in the middle.

Oh and Jimmy Rimmer had zero goals scored against him in the QF and SF ties of the European Cup so even though he missed the final, he had an outstanding campaign and contribution.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

And here is a quick way to show just two of our different ways our attack intends to cover the five columns of the pitch on different potential attacks

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Molby is a good pick to counter Dalglish. He used to drop back as a 3rd CB often and will be well placed to keep a hold on Kenny here. Love Sansom pick, but I think Gary Stevens will have a tough time against Heighway. Not sure which CB pairing is better though!

 

[Indnyc]

Molby is a good pick to counter Dalglish. He used to drop back as a 3rd CB often and will be well placed to keep a hold on Kenny here. Love Sansom pick, but I think Gary Stevens will have a tough time against Heighway. Not sure which CB pairing is better though!

Think Stevens against Heighway is a good battle but Robertson on Parker is going to be equally tough if not worse. When in doubt the forest team gave the ball to Robertson and more often than not he delivered. With Sansom as attacking left back, it might be very difficult for Parker to defend

 

[MJJ]

Molby is a good pick to counter Dalglish. He used to drop back as a 3rd CB often and will be well placed to keep a hold on Kenny here. Love Sansom pick, but I think Gary Stevens will have a tough time against Heighway. Not sure which CB pairing is better though!

They are on the same side.

 

[Indnyc]

They are on the same side.

Probably meant Keegan

 

[MJJ]

Probably meant Keegan

But that leaves mcmahon alone in mid.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

They are on the same side.

 

[Indnyc]

@Frank Grimes how good was Giles in the context of this draft.. He was great in the 60’s but was he still living upto his peak in the 70’s?

 

[Frank Grimes]

This could be good.

Like the talent (Dalglish is the standout but loads of top players from the era on show) and @Frank Grimes has teammate linkups.

@Frank Grimes , what's your plan for Dalglish?

@oneniltothearsenal , what's your plan to nullify oppos attack (noting that midfield duo)?

Good luck.

And here is a quick way to show just two of our different ways our attack intends to cover the five columns of the pitch on different potential attacks

I still maintain that my midfield pairing with Keegan dropping in to help will be a hard nut to cracking and this will be where I have a decent edge. Whilst you have some great picks I don'the see how you control the midfield.
On the flanks your full backs will be kept every bit as busy as mine, more so imo I feel my team spine is the perfect blend of hard work and skill to win the midfield battle. Whilst Dalglish is an incredible talent I feel the one area Keegan trups him would be ability to harry and chase every ball and win the ball high up the pitch.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

They are on the same side.

Oops. Meant Keegan.

 

[Frank Grimes]

@Frank Grimes how good was Giles in the context of this draft.. He was great in the 60’s but was he still living upto his peak in the 70’s?

He was still a key player in Leeds midfield, him and Bremner may have been in their thirties but that didn't stop them from winning the league in 74 or getting to the European cup final in 75. Giles was well good enough in this time frame, no question about that. He played football well after he left Leeds too so it wasn't like he was on his last legs.

 

[Indnyc]

He was still a key player in Leeds midfield, him and Bremner may have been in their thirties but that didn't stop them from winning the league in 74 or getting to the European cup final in 75. Giles was well good enough in this time frame, no question about that. He played football well after he left Leeds too so it wasn't like he was on his last legs.

Thanks.. I am still having a hard time deciding on this.

I do think your midfield especially with Keegan dropping in is much stronger but Onenil does have advantage on the wings

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

I still maintain that my midfield pairing with Keegan dropping in to help will be a hard nut to cracking and this will be where I have a decent edge. Whilst you have some great picks I don'the see how you control the midfield.
On the flanks your full backs will be kept every bit as busy as mine, more so imo I feel my team spine is the perfect blend of hard work and skill to win the midfield battle. Whilst Dalglish is an incredible talent I feel the one area Keegan trups him would be ability to harry and chase every ball and win the ball high up the pitch.

I think some things balance out. Giles and Bremner, while solid, are still slightly past their peaks. Keegan as well has his career peak outside the scope of this tournament. Meanwhile Mølby, as the article mentioned, was Liverpool’s best player in their double winning season 85/86 playing the exact role I have him in. And Kenny Dalglish is in his absolute pomp here with teammates in many roles that uniquely benefit and benefit from Dalglish's skills.

John Robertson and Kenny Sansom I feel are being underrated here.

Robertson, whom Clough described as the greatest left winger. Martin O’Neill described him as “just the greatest, the fulcrum of the team on the outside left”, “mainstay of the side” and even went so far to call Robertson as “the best player in Europe” during those years.

Robertson scored the match-winning goal against Kevin Keegan’s Hamburg in the 1980 European final. He really got the best of great German full back Manfred Kaltz that game who was a better player than Parker here. When asked about Kaltz Clough said “We've got a little fat guy who will turn him inside out”. And Robertson did.



From great article on Robertson

“Scotland as a nation has been blessed with many great wingers, players who liked to get white paint on their boots, as the saying goes. Players who can turn opposing full-backs inside out before delivering a cross to their ever accepting centre-forwards to enhance their goal tallies. One such player, a player who I loved to watch when I was young, was John Robertson – and some believe he was the greatest of them all.

“From December 1976 to December 1980, Robertson played 243 consecutive matches for Nottingham Forest, a stunning achievement for a player who was kicked and elbowed on a weekly basis – often the only way of stopping his mercurial talents. When you average out the matches over a four-year period, it works out at over 60 a year. In modern football those statistics are pretty much unheard of, especially for a mazy winger…

“The thing I always admired about Robertson was that unlike many wide players I had seen over the years, you weren’t entirely sure if he was going to go outside the defender or cut inside. Robertson was one of the very few players who was equally adept on his left or right foot, which meant he was entirely comfortable on the ball and could gratefully accept whatever the direction the full-back showed him. This must have been hell for even the best full-backs of the era. Indeed, defenders of any generation would struggle with a player of that skill set – just think Neymar today and the ability to go both ways.

“It was not just his dribbling skills that set Robertson apart but his crossing ability. It’s impossible to recount the number of times he would get to the byline and, from an almost impossible angle with a defender tight, still clip in a cross that would find a teammate to head home. He had an incredible knack of doing that. He also scored his fair share of goals, often cutting inside from the left and curling a shot with his right foot into the far corner.”

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2016/04/05/the-wizardry-wing-genius-of-john-robertson/

---
Then keep in mind he is feeding Kenny Dalglish in his pomp and Clive Allen, the master of the 49 goal season which is another level to Toshack.
Dalglish + Allen > Keegan + Toshack

His is a great goal from Clive who will love playing with Robertson and Dalglish




to be continued..
more on record holding 8-time PFA Team of the Year selection Kenny Sansom later...

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

@oneniltothearsenal

"Keegan as well has his career peak outside the scope of this tournament."

?

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

@oneniltothearsenal

"Keegan as well has his career peak outside the scope of this tournament."

?

His career peak, IMO and I think generally speaking, was at Hamburg 1977-1980.
Great player for Liverpool but not at his top level career-wise whereas Dalglish is in his full peak.

I should every Liverpool fan I ever met rates Dalglish above Keegan in their time at the club. And it's not even close really.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Here is an amazing Dalglish goal against Everton who had Peter Reid at the time.

Spoiler: Another bit of Dalglish Skills

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

His career peak, IMO and I think generally speaking, was at Hamburg 1977-1980.
Great player for Liverpool but not at his top level career-wise whereas Dalglish is in his full peak.

Ahhhhh, gotcha. I thought you meant his peak was pre 72 or post 92. My bad.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Gone for onenil. Like his midfield and attack slightly better and think he has a better defence too.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

@Frank Grimes .... Like the Keegan/Toshack link, solid defence, Heighway. Not a Coppell fan (yeah, shoot me) midfield maybe towards end of peak and Schmeicel (while best goalie I've ever seen) still early in career.

@oneniltothearsenal .... Like the midfield pairing and 3 of the front 4 and full backs. Not a fan of Thomas or Wright.

Voted, happy to hear more, be persuaded. bribed

 

[Gio]

Thanks.. I am still having a hard time deciding on this.

I do think your midfield especially with Keegan dropping in is much stronger but Onenil does have advantage on the wings

Yeah that sums it up for me. Onenil looks great on his left flank, I prefer Grimey through the centre and the other flank is all square (Grimey might have edge there to be honest).

@Frank Grimes ...and Schmeicel (while best goalie I've ever seen) still early in career.

@oneniltothearsenal .... Like the midfield pairing and 3 of the front 4 and full backs. Not a fan of Thomas or Wright.

Voted, happy to hear more, be persuaded. bribed

On Schmeichel - I'd say this is peak version effectively. Reading a World Soccer earlier from summer of 1992 where he was heralded as the best in the world. Obviously Euro ‘92 made a big difference there, but the article is full of praise for his 91/92 performances and making the case that it’s a long time since United had someone so reliable and influential in the sticks.

That said one season is a light contribution to the era and generally you’d want more.

Edit - so maybe it’s not quite a peak Schmeichel in this pool given his limited game time.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Yeah that sums it up for me. Onenil looks great on his left flank, I prefer Grimey through the centre and the other flank is all square (Grimey might have edge there to be honest).


On Schmeichel - I'd say this is peak version effectively. Reading a World Soccer earlier from summer of 1992 where he was heralded as the best in the world. Obviously Euro ‘92 made a big difference there, but the article is full of praise for his 91/92 performances and making the case that it’s a long time since United had someone so reliable and influential in the sticks.

That said one season is a light contribution to the era and generally you’d want more.

Edit - so maybe it’s not quite a peak Schmeichel in this pool given his limited game time.

As much as I like him (as I say, best I've ever seen), just in the spirit of the draft, ignored Euro 92 so basically one season for United, albeit a good one.

Same issue that's been raised in draft/other match ups... ability versus time.

More discussion on individual battles and/or how a side would control the ball/chances would be good.

 

[Indnyc]

Gone for onenil. Like his midfield and attack slightly better and think he has a better defence too.

I’d be interested to hear how others think of this. Watson seems to have played for a while in second division (not that it’s a bad thing) but still was successful for England. Was it due to a lack of good competition or was he genuinely that good to deserve that many caps?

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I’d be interested to hear how others think of this. Watson seems to have played for a while in second division (not that it’s a bad thing) but still was successful for England. Was it due to a lack of good competition or was he genuinely that good to deserve that many caps?

As a unit. Sansom was rock solid and probably the best Left back in this draft. Stevens and Parker are about even, though a big chunk wlof Parker was as a CB. Add in Molby shielding and playnakipl from the deep, I feel he has a more cohesive side. Nothing wrong with Frank's side as yes built solid, but just comes down to personal preference, I suppose.

 

[Frank Grimes]

As a unit. Sansom was rock solid and probably the best Left back in this draft. Stevens and Parker are about even, though a big chunk wlof Parker was as a CB. Add in Molby shielding and playnakipl from the deep, I feel he has a more cohesive side. Nothing wrong with Frank's side as yes built solid, but just comes down to personal preference, I suppose.

Don't agree with this? My side is the most cohesive side in the whole draft imho. It's also more balanced than onenils. Molby playing as a deep lying midfielder leaves McMahon with Giles and Bremner to contend with in the middle, so he can't play that deep. Also the last player you want snapping at your heels is Keegan if you're a deep lying playmaker. If Thomas is moved inside from the wing it leaves Stevens exposed against the dangerous Heighway.

Also Molby and McMahon were not chosen in a lot of games which I researched(FA Cup Finals in 1986,1988,1989). Dalglish picked Molby in 86 with McMahon on the bench. McMahon was chosen in 1988 with Molby on the bench. Molby wasn't in the squad in 1989, but by this stage Ronnie Whelan was established as McMahon's best partner in the midfield. I'm not convinced Dalglish trusted them in the big games in a 2 in midfield and as I stated this leaves onenils team vulnerable in the most crucial position imo, central midfield.

 

[Gio]

As a unit. Sansom was rock solid and probably the best Left back in this draft. Stevens and Parker are about even, though a big chunk wlof Parker was as a CB.

Would probably give Stevens the edge there based on his contributions through the 1980s with the all-conquering Everton side and then with Rangers, but not a lot in it in fairness.

Don't agree with this? My side is the most cohesive side in the whole draft imho. It's also more balanced than onenils. Molby playing as a deep lying midfielder leaves McMahon with Giles and Bremner to contend with in the middle, so he can't play that deep. Also the last player you want snapping at your heels is Keegan if you're a deep lying playmaker. If Thomas is moved inside from the wing it leaves Stevens exposed against the dangerous Heighway.

Also Molby and McMahon were not chosen in a lot of games which I researched(FA Cup Finals in 1986,1988,1989). Dalglish picked Molby in 86 with McMahon on the bench. McMahon was chosen in 1988 with Molby on the bench. Molby wasn't in the squad in 1989, but by this stage Ronnie Whelan was established as McMahon's best partner in the midfield. I'm not convinced Dalglish trusted them in the big games in a 2 in midfield and as I stated this leaves onenils team vulnerable in the most crucial position imo, central midfield.

Agree you have the advantage in central midfield. Not that I'd downplay McMahon in any way, one of the best midfielders in the draft whose performance level around 87-89 was top notch. Always loved this goal. If ever a goal encapsulated the archetype tireless central midfielder, this is it.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Would probably give Stevens the edge there based on his contributions through the 1980s with the all-conquering Everton side and then with Rangers, but not a lot in it in fairness.

Agree you have the advantage in central midfield. Not that I'd downplay McMahon in any way, one of the best midfielders in the draft whose performance level around 87-89 was top notch. Always loved this goal. If ever a goal encapsulated the archetype tireless central midfielder, this is it.

Yeah, that stop/quick reaction on the touchline is famous?

Encapsulates three players there - the determination of McMahon, the creativity of Beardlsey and the positioning/poaching of Aldridge.

Not 100% sure about the ''mix' of McMahon/Molby but also not sure about the time in their career for Giles/Bremner - no doubting that at their peak, they were top notch, but not sure how much they played in the draft time period (i know Leeds were still up there, as a club).

Some detail on that would be good (games, goals, impact) to make sure we're comparing apples with apples.

 

[Gio]

Yeah, that stop/quick reaction on the touchline is famous?

Encapsulates three players there - the determination of McMahon, the creativity of Beardlsey and the positioning/poaching of Aldridge.

Not 100% sure about the ''mix' of McMahon/Molby but also not sure about the time in their career for Giles/Bremner - no doubting that at their peak, they were top notch, but not sure how much they played in the draft time period (i know Leeds were still up there, as a club).

Some detail on that would be good (games, goals, impact) to make sure we're comparing apples with apples.

Aye. Quite like to see Giles justified. After all he starts the draft at 30/31, and looking at a 3-year peak period to evaluate, that takes him up to 33/34. As for the other part of the duo, I'm happy with Bremner's performances in the timeframe. He's a bit younger and, although it's out of scope for the draft, he was superb at the '74 World Cup which shows he at least kept his level.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Aye. Quite like to see Giles justified. After all he starts the draft at 30/31, and looking at a 3-year peak period to evaluate, that takes him up to 33/34. As for the other part of the duo, I'm happy with Bremner's performances in the timeframe. He's a bit younger and, although it's out of scope for the draft, he was superb at the '74 World Cup which shows he at least kept his level.

That's my 'block' at the moment. If he's not peak, McMahon was a decent MFer battler himself so midfield battle may not be as it looks on paper.

Also, like Robertson and Dalglish with Allen (in the Rush role). Allen would love the service he'd get from those two.

 

[Frank Grimes]

Aye. Quite like to see Giles justified. After all he starts the draft at 30/31, and looking at a 3-year peak period to evaluate, that takes him up to 33/34. As for the other part of the duo, I'm happy with Bremner's performances in the timeframe. He's a bit younger and, although it's out of scope for the draft, he was superb at the '74 World Cup which shows he at least kept his level.

Giles played 100 games between the seasons 71/72 and 72/73 he scored 20 goals in this timeframe. The next season he missed a lot of the season through injury, Bremner played 51 times in this season scoring 11 goals whilst Giles played 19 scoring 2. Giles then played 45 and Bremner played 43 in the 74/75 season. They were a formidable partnership well within the timeframe of this draft, the fact that Leeds reached the 1975 European final with Giles and Bremner playing 88 games between them that season is testament to this fact.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Should have got back online earlier but here is more information on Kenny Sansom, easily the best full back on the pitch

"For a player who had a monopoly on his position in the England team for most of a decade and ended up with a gigantic 86 caps, the international career of left back Kenny Sansom was largely event-free. But this was exactly what his coaches - Ron Greenwood and Bobby Robson both rated him hugely - wanted from their defenders. The no-frills Sansom was consistent and cultured but greatly unfussy, doing the simple things well and relying on great timing in the tackle without ever resorting to brutality or shock tactics to keep wingers in check. Some say Derek Statham's rotten injury record partly contributed to Sansom's unwavering hold on the number 3 shirt; others felt he was head and shoulders above all who came up against him for the slot, even though Kenny's successes at club level consisted of entirely nothing until a League Cup win with Arsenal in 1987 gave him his only domestic honour. His debut came in 1979 when still a precocious talent with Crystal Palace after Ron Greenwood, feeling that his aging defence needed a spring chicken, called up Sansom for the summer Home Internationals and played him in the middle game against Wales, which ended 0-0.

"Kenny managed one more appearance that year - England had qualified for the 1980 European Championships with a game to spare, so Greenwood threw Sansom into the last qualifier against Bulgaria - before he slowly but surely became England's top-rated left back without anyone barely noticing. Greenwood saw something special in the impish Sansom and decided that he should field him as much as possible in the early part of 1980 in order to make him a worthy choice for the finals in Italy. Kenny played in five of the next seven games and was named in the squad for England's first tournament in a decade. True to his beliefs, Greenwood picked him for the first two group games - a 1-1 draw with Belgium and a 1-0 defeat to the hosts - and only removed him for the final game, by which time England were less than likely to make progress anyway. The 2-1 win over Spain did not do enough to take England through, but by now Greenwood had a new youthful element emerging for the World Cup qualifiers, with Sansom joined by the likes of Bryan Robson, Glenn Hoddle and Viv Anderson as the great new hope for the nation's game.

"Kenny Sansom remained a mainstay in the England side as the 1986 World Cup qualification campaing got underway, scoring his only international goal in the opening 5-0 stuffing of Finland in October 1984 and soon afterwards winning his 50th cap in the goalless draw with Romania which kept England in command at the top of the group. This was in the middle of an astonishing 37-game unbroken run in the England team which began in May 1984 and lasted for one month short of three years. During this period, England qualified for the World Cup and went to Mexico buoyant, with Sansom winning caps 66 to 70 as ultimately he was one of a number of bamboozled players turned upside down by Diego Maradona for his stunning second goal as Argentina knocked out England in the quarter-final 2-1. Such was the dearth of competition for Sansom that there was no other recognised left back in the England squad, with the versatile - but not naturally left-sided - Gary Stevens of Tottenham Hotspur the singularly likely candidate to step in if Kenny were to be injured."


And then there is Sansom's interesting trade with Arsenal for Clive Allen who oddly only spent 6 weeks at the club

"That was strange. And that was just the start. I arrived at Highbury and was told to go through the West Stand entrance and walk around the pitch to the East Stand were the Club’s offices were situated because they didn’t want people to know what was happening.

Ken Friar greets me and tells me Arsenal want to sign me. Oh, and Clive Allen is going the other way. Now that was really strange because Clive had only just signed for the Arsenal from Queens Park Rangers. And he is off already after just six weeks – and no competitive games – for the Club.

I was just a kid of 19 or 20 and signed within 20 minutes. I had no agent but the money was good and I was happy. But it did all seem very strange. I met Clive a couple of days later. We were at a hotel near Tower Bridge and a newspaper gave us both dinner suits and bowler hats and made us pose in front of two Rolls Royces. It was a whirlwind few days.

But it doesn’t explain why Clive lasted only six weeks. Terry Neill, the Arsenal manager, says he realised he needed a defender instead of a striker. And when I asked Terry Venables why he sold me, he just said: “You wanted to leave.” But I didn’t. There are all kinds of rumours as to why this strange transfer took place involving Clive, but it is not for me to speculate.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Dalglish and Clive Allen getting a little underrated here. As mentioned earlier Dalglish is in his absolute peak (unlike Kevin) and there is no plan to stop Dalglish. Dalglish is really too much for an aging Bremner to handle and especially against the weaker CBs should give Allen tremendous joy. Additionally Larry Lloyd has experiencing shutting down a Keegan led side.

Dalglish



Clive Allen goals

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

And I think a Leeds side that only won one league during the period of the draft is getting a bit overrated here.

John Robertson was the key player on a Forest side that not only won the league unexpectedly but then went on to win two European Cups (something that Leeds side could only dream about), in the processing scoring the key goal against a Keegan led side.

Robertson has played against and beaten much better fullbacks than Paul Parker and with Clive Allen and Kenny Dalglish I feel Narey and Watson have been getting a free pass.

Spoiler: Going past two players covering him on the Wing to get an assist

Spoiler: Beating defender to the inside to score a goal

Spoiler: Dribbling wizardry to create a goal

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Aye. Quite like to see Giles justified. After all he starts the draft at 30/31, and looking at a 3-year peak period to evaluate, that takes him up to 33/34. As for the other part of the duo, I'm happy with Bremner's performances in the timeframe. He's a bit younger and, although it's out of scope for the draft, he was superb at the '74 World Cup which shows he at least kept his level.

Except he is facing Kenny Dalglish in his absolute pomp which is what is being overlooked here. Bremner just isn't on the level to stop Dalglish and there was never a tactical from @Frank Grimes to stop Dalglish other than vague appeals to a Leeds side that only won one league title. Really feel that Leeds side is getting massively overrated here while other players achievements are being overlooked/downplayed