Pre Premier League Draft Round 1 - Green Smiley vs Skizzo/Pat

[Indnyc]

This is a Pre Premier League draft from 1971/72 to 1991/92 where managers assemble their squads by selecting players based on their playing performance during this time period only. Performances that fall outside this time period should not be considered. Neither should the players performance for their country/international tournaments be considered. As in any team, team tactics and balance also play a part.

Team Green_Smiley

VS

Team Skizzo/Pat

Tactics Green Smiley

Formation
4-4-2

Tactics during ball possession

• 2 attacking full-backs (Jardine and Lindsay) provides width and overlapping
• 2 wide midfielders (Kennedy and Rocastle) drift inside, looking to occupy dangerous attacking position just outside the penalty box
• 2 center midfielders (Perryman and Bonds) provide channels for passing, retain possession and locate attacking players
• Inside-left forward (Cooper) torments opposition's defense on the left-hand side, stretching the play or cut inside with excellent dribbling and close control
• Best striker of this draft (Rush), a goal-scoring predator with great pace and high work-rate

Tactics when opposition has the ball

• Pressing on all fronts to regain possession as soon as possible, followed by quick counter-attack
• Rush, team's first line of defense, pressing and harrying opponents into mistakes with his ceaseless running
  
• Strength, combative presence and intensity from midfield four
• Solid back four with Smith leading the defense line - uncompromising, tough yet skillful
• Mabbutt's calmness and precision timing in the tackle compliments Smith well at the heart of defense
• Best keeper of this draft (Jennings) as the last line of defense

Set-piece taker: Davie Cooper



Tactics Skizzo/Pat

Formation - 442

Chris Woods finds himself in goal. A solid keeper who managed to accumulate an array of honours across his time with Nottingham Forest and Rangers. Ahead of him are two solid defenders, both of whom who led their respective teams from the back. On the right, we sport the best right back in the draft in Danny McGrain. Solid defensively, and a reliable option going forward. Left back spot will be filled by Cyril Knowles, famed for his crossing ability, and creating chances for his attacking teammates.

Our flanks will be manned by John Barnes and Laurie Cunningham. Both will look to stretch play, and offer a direct threat on and off the ball. With Ronnie Whelan holding his position a little deeper in midfield, John Wark will look to offer his goalscoring threat as he pushes forward.

Up front will be Norman Whiteside and Martin Chivers. Whiteside will look to drop a little bit deeper and help link midfield and attack. Both will appreciate the service from out wide, and will thrive in and around the area with that service.

 

[Indnyc]

@green_smiley @Skizzo @Pat_Mustard Good Luck

 

[green_smiley]

Good luck @Skizzo @Pat_Mustard

Both Whiteside and Buchan should pull some votes for you

Nevertheless, safe to say that McNeil, while still a good defender at 31 years old, is not at his peak

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Shit team frim Skizzo/Pat.

Voted GS!

 

[green_smiley]

Ray Kennedy

A centre-forward with Arsenal's double side, and was converted spectacularly to a left-sided midfielder, went on to lift three European Cups and five domestic championships with Liverpool

With the talented midfielder Peter Cormack ruled out for the rest of 1975-76 season, Paisley solved two pressing problems with one act of genius. Kennedy was asked to play on the left-hand side of the Liverpool midfield.

Combined with the emergence of Jimmy Case on the right, Liverpool gradually moved away from the concept of the out-and-out winger, instead implementing wide midfielders who would cut-in, rather than stay wide. Up to this point, Paisley had struggled to find the perfect formula for his own version of Liverpool, in succession to Shankly. Kennedy’s switch to the number 5 shirt would be the watershed moment.

Kennedy had taken to his new role like a natural-born midfielder. He was the scorer of the vital first Liverpool goal during the UEFA Cup final. Trailing 2-0 at half-time during the first leg at Anfield, Kennedy found the top corner to cut the deficit, before seeing another effort bounce back off the post for Case to prod home for the equaliser.

Kennedy was the catalyst for a turn-around that would lead to Liverpool lifting their second UEFA Cup in three years. Kennedy’s personal renaissance was just as startling. His transformation from what could have been described as a borderline bustling striker to an effortlessly classical midfielder of purpose was nothing short of remarkable. It was also a move that was the making of Paisley’s Liverpool. Trophy after trophy would roll into Anfield.

Kennedy’s importance to Paisley’s Liverpool was immeasurable. With a style of play that seemed to unfold in slow motion, he was one of those footballers who instinctively knew what was coming next. He was positionally astute and he was adept at the delayed appearance on the edge of the box to devastating effect. His striker’s eye for goal never left him and it made him incredibly difficult to play against. Paisley had to field more enquiries over Kennedy’s availability for transfer than any other player in his squad.

Kennedy is well supported by Lindsay, who was the best left back in England in his time

His previous roles as a midfielder and forward gave him the confidence to push forward with the attack. He was not the fastest full back in the league, but he had a knack of knowing when to move most effectively either to cut out an opposition attack or to make an overlapping run forward to put in a cross, or take a blast himself.

Fellow Liverpool player Brian Hall described his talent this way: "One of the best left foots I’ve ever seen. Alec was one of those players who had such a lovely sweet movement and motion when he kicked a ball with his left foot that he could kick it three quarters the length of the pitch and make it look so easy." Bill Shankly, as always, had a more colourful way of putting it, "Alec Lindsay could peel an orange with that left foot of his."

One of the best wrongly-disallowed goals against Newcastle in 1974 FA Cup Final (0:51 onwards)

 

[green_smiley]

"Rocky" David Rocastle

'Rocky' broke into the Arsenal side against Newcastle in September 1985. The first in a line of youth team graduates - including Martin Hayes, Niall Quinn and Martin Keown - to be blooded by under-pressure manager Don Howe, Rocastle made an immediate impact on the right wing, jinking infield and showing selflessness in bringing his team-mates into play.

The arrival of George Graham at Highbury in 1986 was the real making of Rocastle. The Scot placed an emphasis on the vibrancy and energy of youth, and Rocky - operating on the right and working in tandem with a midfield axis of Steve Williams and Paul Davis - was the fulcrum of a side which took Division One by storm.

Built like a middleweight boxer, Rocky was certainly no shrinking violet on the pitch; as Tony Adams later commented: “David was more than capable of putting his foot in when needed... he was a massively strong player, with thighs like tree trunks.”

While not a prolific goal-getter, some of the midfielder's net-busters remain the most memorable of that era. Rocastle told Shoot readers that he possessed an uncanny ability to “twist my torso the opposite way to my legs... it fools defenders”. The best illustration of that was his slaloming run through the Manchester United midfield and wonderful chip over Peter Schmeichel at Old Trafford during the 1991/92 season.

Rocastle came back strongly that year after two injury-hit campaigns, helping new signing Ian Wright to win the Supporters' Player of the Year award. Still only 25, he looked set to flourish at Arsenal for the rest of the decade, but George Graham decided to sell him to champions Leeds that summer.

There's still plenty of conjecture over the reasons for this. Graham hinted at a long-term weakness in Rocastle’s knee, although the player vehemently denied such claims. But with Rocky gone, Graham’s Arsenal swiftly lost their mojo. “I came back for pre-season training that summer, and life just wasn’t as much fun without David there anymore,” explained team-mate Perry Groves.

The final eight years of Rocastle’s career were a meandering tale of underachievement at Leeds, Manchester City, Chelsea, Hull and Norwich, before a brief move to Malaysia. Rocastle retired at just 32, with plans to embark on a coaching career. Sadly, the onset of non-Hodgkins lymphoma prevented him from achieving his goal, and he died on March 31, 2001.

Arsenal fans - and several of his former Gunners team-mates including Keown, Tony Adams and David Seaman – immediately paid homage to him at Highbury before a north London derby, and the “Rocky, Rocky, Rocky, Rocky, Rocastle” chant is still regularly sung at Arsenal matches home and away.

Under Graham, Rocastle’s rise to prominence and legendary goal at White Hart Lane marked the beginning of a golden era at Highbury. In a team laden with homegrown starlets and blue-collar buys from lower-division clubs, his skill, speed and “all for one” mentality illuminated the Gunners’ play during the late 1980s and early 1990s. Rocky – truly one of our own – will forever remain one of Arsenal’s favourite sons.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Having their wide-men cut in and relying on fullbacks for width...esp against John Barnes doesn't seem well strategized. Perhaps GS can explain more on this. This would definitely be an advantage in middle and Jardine is one of the top RBs in this draft, but still seems a high risk high reward proposition.

Also wasn't Laurie predominantly a left winger only occasionally subbed at right flank? What's his peak performance at right flank? Same with Buchan who should be a right CB.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Good luck @Skizzo @Pat_Mustard

Both Whiteside and Buchan should pull some votes for you

I'll be honest, two of my favourites. Buchan was my first hero.

Shit team frim Skizzo/Pat.

Stop sitting on the fence. Give it to them straight.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Matchup looks to favor
Smiley's best player Rush can target the aging McNeil while Barnes is up against Smiley's best defender. I can also see Rocastle getting a lot of joy against Knowles while offering some support for Jardine against Barnes.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Also wasn't Laurie predominantly a left winger only occasionally subbed at right flank? What's his peak performance at right flank? Same with Buchan who should be a right CB.

Didn't Buchan play left CH in the 77 final? (McQueen on right?)

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Didn't Buchan play left CH in the 77 final? (McQueen on right?)

I felt the CB's should be swapped. Buchan was a CB/RB from an earlier research iirc.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Matchup looks to favor
Smiley's best player Rush can target the aging McNeil while Barnes is up against Smiley's best defender. I can also see Rocastle getting a lot of joy against Knowles while offering some support for Jardine against Barnes.

Yup. My thoughts too.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

@green_smiley

Rush is a great great player but a finisher not a creator and worked best with other players creating for him

Who do you see doing that? I can see Kennedy doing it but dont know much about Cooper and not sure about the midfield as it's two players who split their careers between midfield and defence?

 

[Gio]

@green_smiley

Rush is a great great player but a finisher not a creator and worked best with other players creating for him

Who do you see doing that? I can see Kennedy doing it but dont know much about Cooper and not sure about the midfield as it's two players who split their careers between midfield and defence?

Cooper was full of invention and creativity. Love the prominent role GS has carved out for him.

 

[Skizzo]

Also wasn't Laurie predominantly a left winger only occasionally subbed at right flank? What's his peak performance at right flank? Same with Buchan who should be a right CB.

And a nice little complication showing Cunningham’s work

 

[Skizzo]

Good luck @Skizzo @Pat_Mustard

Both Whiteside and Buchan should pull some votes for you

Nevertheless, safe to say that McNeil, while still a good defender at 31 years old, is not at his peak

Good luck to you too mate!

Just to touch on your McNeill point. He still made 200+ appearances in this time frame, winning 3 league titles and 3 cups. I believe he was just about ever present in the league too, so he didn’t exactly “drop off” like some of the picks who appeared before 72.

 

[green_smiley]

Having their wide-men cut in and relying on fullbacks for width...esp against John Barnes doesn't seem well strategized. Perhaps GS can explain more on this. This would definitely be an advantage in middle and Jardine is one of the top RBs in this draft, but still seems a high risk high reward proposition.

Also wasn't Laurie predominantly a left winger only occasionally subbed at right flank? What's his peak performance at right flank? Same with Buchan who should be a right CB.

Kennedy and Rocastle will cut in during attacking phase

When opposition has the ball, both will return to wide position, forming two banks of four

 

[Skizzo]

Not sure anyone needs to read a long post on Norman, as I imagine most are well aware of his talents. Never hurts to watch the man in action again though.

 

[green_smiley]

@green_smiley

Rush is a great great player but a finisher not a creator and worked best with other players creating for him

Who do you see doing that? I can see Kennedy doing it but dont know much about Cooper and not sure about the midfield as it's two players who split their careers between midfield and defence?

Davie Cooper

GENIUS is an over-used tag but it applied to Coop. He possessed a left foot on a par with Baxter and dazzled defenders with his stunning wing play and magnificent crosses.

A match-winner in every sense of the phrase, his death from a brain haemorrhage at the age of 39 in 1995 stunned the nation.

Many rate him as one of the most gifted Scottish players of all time, up there with Denis Law, Jim Baxter and Kenny Dalglish. With the ball at his feet, no-one knew what to expect – except, perhaps, the unexpected.

He would run at defenders, show them a glimpse of the ball, pull it back, feint and then with a shimmy he would be gone – often past several players.

He could cross an inch-perfect ball to either head or foot and possessed such stunning shooting power that it made him a scorer of spectacular goals.

Two such gems among the 75 goals he scored for Rangers were a free kick against Aberdeen in the League Cup Final on October 25 1987 and his finest strike of all in the Drybrough Cup Final against Celtic on August 4 1979.

Against Aberdeen he hit the ball so hard past a wall of players that it rocketed into the far corner of the net beyond a helpless Jim Leighton.

Against Celtic, he received the ball on his chest with his back to goal on the edge of the box and seemingly nowhere to go. Cooper flicked it in the air four times with his left foot taking him past four Celtic defenders and put it in the net. [see below video, 1:35-1:50]

It was a majestic strike of outlandish flair and imagination and was voted the Greatest Ever Rangers Goal in a worldwide poll by fans.

It also summed up the essence of Cooper. For he was not at his best when receiving tactical instruction and told to stick to a plan. To bring out his genius, Cooper had to be given a free role and allowed to play the game as he saw it.

Former Scotland manager Andy Roxburgh once said of him: "Football is not about robots or boring tactics. It’s about excitement, emotion and individual flair and imagination as shown by Davie Cooper."

It is an appropriate epitaph for a man who brought a touch of magic to the beautiful game.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Good luck @Skizzo @Pat_Mustard

Both Whiteside and Buchan should pull some votes for you

Nevertheless, safe to say that McNeil, while still a good defender at 31 years old, is not at his peak

Good luck to you too mate!

 

[green_smiley]

@green_smiley

Rush is a great great player but a finisher not a creator and worked best with other players creating for him

Who do you see doing that? I can see Kennedy doing it but dont know much about Cooper and not sure about the midfield as it's two players who split their careers between midfield and defence?

Perryman was a ball-winning midfielder at his younger days (which is the version I play). In later years, he was switched to play as sweeper and then right back

Bonds was a defensive midfielder most of the time, and played in defense at later stage of his career

The creativity come from other attackers, but both Perryman and Bonds provide a good foundation for them to fluorish

 

[Frank Grimes]

Does anyone else think Rocastle was a good player but nowhere near as good as is made out? 23 goals in 228 league games, that's a poor return for a winger/creative mid.

 

[Frank Grimes]

I wrecked my head on this one and I have just given the vote to GS by virtue of the fact he has a superior keeper, small edges. If Barnes had a full back behind him I was more familiar with I could well have gone the other way.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Also wasn't Laurie predominantly a left winger only occasionally subbed at right flank? What's his peak performance at right flank? Same with Buchan who should be a right CB.

Nope, he did much of his best work from the right wing, and it's his best position imo. I put this video together from various West Brom/Real Madrid match highlights* from Cunningham's era, and you can see how natural he was on the right wing. 3:06 and 5:15 are prime examples.



* I know the Real Madrid highlights from 7:30 onwards are irrelevant to the voting criteria, but I really wanted to research Cunningham properly as there's so little easily available on Youtube for such a historically significant and talented player.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Does anyone else think Rocastle was a good player but nowhere near as good as is made out? 23 goals in 228 league games, that's a poor return for a winger/creative mid.

He's not a player that can be judge on raw goals like that. It's a bit like looking at Xavi or Iniesta raw goal output and making assumptions about their influence on a match. Rocky offered a lot of creativity and team play so while he was not scoring tonnes of goals, he was also a crucial and integral part of the build up making moves to unlock defenses.

Its also important to take into George Graham's philosophy during this period. Strangely enough (compared to how he was as a player) Graham basically got more and more cynical every year as manager. He did weird things like sending the talented Paul Davis into the reserves for 18 months, got into rows with other creative players like Anders Limpar and in hindsight was really losing the plot with his attempts to immorally profit off transfers. Yet that Arsenal side still won cups because his was actually a decent defensive tactician and coach. Rocky, along with Bergkamp are probably the two players that are universally loved by all Arsenal fans. Not even Vieira and Ray Parlour are loved like Rocky because his attitude was tremendous.

Wenger showed him respect

'He was a modern player, because the revolution of the game has gone to more technique, and more skill,' Wenger added. 'Rocastle not only had an exceptional dimension as a footballer, but as well a human dimension. Everybody liked him.'

And Alan Smith as well

“In those early years before a knee operation affected his mobility, Rocky was the complete package, blessed with the silky skills of a Brazilian, the tackle of a rhino and heart of a lion. He simply couldn’t be intimidated by word or deed.”

While not a prolific goal-getter, some of the midfielder's net-busters remain the most memorable of that era. There was his sublime finish at Anfield in a Littlewoods Cup clash in autumn 1988, when he controlled the ball and smashed it past Mike Hooper in one deft movement; the impudent lob at Villa Park in an away win a few weeks later; and a magnificent jinking run and finish against Middlesbrough during the title-winning campaign of 1988/89.

Rocastle told Shoot readers that he possessed an uncanny ability to “twist my torso the opposite way to my legs... it fools defenders”. The best illustration of that was his slaloming run through the Manchester United midfield and wonderful chip over Peter Schmeichel at Old Trafford during the 1991/92 season.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/feature...eans-so-much-arsenal-fans#FV8kJLR4YT5wUrP0.99

 

[Skizzo]

I wrecked my head on this one and I have just given the vote to GS by virtue of the fact he has a superior keeper, small edges. If Barnes had a full back behind him I was more familiar with I could well have gone the other way.

Knowles was a solid, if unspectacular, full back. Couple of assists in this game here, with his delivery to Chivers leading to a goal.

Knowles would spend 11 years at White Hart Lane, where he was famed for his crossing ability, creating countless opportunities from open play as well as set pieces. He is also remembered for his excellent partnership with Irish right-back Joe Kinnear and his valuable contribution towards the acceptance of the overlapping, attacking full-back in modern football.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

I wrecked my head on this one and I have just given the vote to GS by virtue of the fact he has a superior keeper, small edges. If Barnes had a full back behind him I was more familiar with I could well have gone the other way.

A little bit on our left back Cyril Knowles in case it sways you to change your mind mate. Widely regarded as Spurs' best ever left back (although as the Spuds' fans themselves acknowledge in that thread they haven't exactly produced a conveyor belt of Maldinis in that position ), it's his adventurous nature and gorgeous left foot that sold him to us as an ideal foil for Barnes on our left wing. For all that Barnes was equally accomplished attacking the opposiition full back on the outside as he was cutting infield, his through balls to his advancing LB were a frequent feature of his play (see his partnership with Steve Nicol for example). An attacking left back with a quality final ball was what we were after, and Knowles fits the bill nicely. Some examples of his quality in possession:

Two goals for Spurs vs Leeds in 1975:



Lovely performance vs Newcastle in 1974:



0:20 forces GK into mistake for the first goal
2:00 nice goal from a free kick
3:30 whips in a gorgeous cross from the left wing

He was a strong and very aggressive defender too, with his main weakness being a propensity for the odd blunder, maybe due to his love for trying crazy shit like this

I once saw Knowles stop the ball on his own goal line and dribble past an onrushing attacker, which gave me a heart attack, but he pulled it off.

He was also sufficiently popular to have this musical masterpiece recorded in his honour, which reached the giddy heights of No. 14 in the British charts:

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Good compiliation on Cunningham @Pat_Mustard looks like a powerful and fast two footed players who favors the left slightly more than the right. He's alright in the role here.

 

[Indnyc]

Is it me or have all the matches so far been too close to call?

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Our Central Midfield Pairing:

As far as under the radar match winners go, there's few in this draft that can rival John Wark. A central midfield all-rounder who also played at centre back, his defining characteristic is his astonishing goal return from midfield. From 1979 to 1985, his record in the league is:

1979-80 (Ipswich): 41 matches played, 12 goals
1980-81 (Ipswich): 40 matches, 18 goals
1981-82 (Ipswich): 42 matches, 18 goals
1982-83 (Ipswich): 42 matches, 20 goals
1983-84 (Ipswich/Liverpool): 41 matches, 7 goals
1984-85 (Liverpool): 40 matches, 18 goals

He actually saved his most prolific scoring exploits for Europe, plundering 14 goals in 12 games en route to winning the UEFA Cup with Ipswich in 1981. There were a fair few of those against relative minnows, but he also hit the target in both legs of the final, against the Koln of Schumacher and Littbarski in the semis, and Platini and Rep's St Etienne in the QFs. There was an impressive variety to his finishing too, with everything from headers to long range strikes and even the odd overhead kick in his highlights locker:



Bob Paisley on Wark:

How many times have you heard it said that goalscoring is all about being in 'the right place at the right time. Most footballers know where the right 'place' is, but relatively few can sense when the time is 'right'. John Wark has great timing. You could set your watch by him. Bobby Robson often uses an old expression to describe instinctive goal poachers. He calls them 'Johnnies on the Spot'. I'm sure he coined the phrase after watching Johnny Wark arrive 'on the spot' time after time during their days together at lpswich.

John is like a magicians apprentice in reverse. Instead of 'now you see him, now you don't.... it's now Wark is nowhere to be seen, now he’s scored!'. He has you wondering whether or not he has access to a secret network of tunnels under the pitch. He just pops up through a trap door beneath the penalty spot, leaving defenders looking at each other saying, 'where the heck did he come from?'

In 1980, Terry McDermott became the first Double Footballer of year. He scored 14 goals from midfield in an exciting season which saw us win the league and reach two Cup finals. John knocked in 27 in his first full season for us outscoring even Ian Rush but there were no trophies and no awards.

There are a lot of similarities between them. John has never had Terry's power of shot, anymore than Terry would have headed as many goals as John does. But the common denominator is a striker's goal return from a midfield position. In truth, if their scoring records were no better than average, you would not be getting your money's worth from them. Injuries have hampered John’s progress at Liverpool, but not as much as the changing of personnel and shape of the side. He is a perfect illustration of my constant theme about assembling a team of imperfect players who compliment each other perfectly. Unless he is surrounded by team mates who recognise his strengths and cover for his weaknesses, his special goal scoring ability will go largely untapped. He needs to to be in the right place at the right time!

Copyright - Clive Tyldesley from his book "Bob Paisley's personal view of the First Team Squad of 1986-87".

We've given Wark a good platform here by pairing him with Ronnie Whelan, who matured from a skillful and industrious left midfielder into a holding player of real poise and distinction. Whelan will give Wark the positional freedom he needs to be at his most dangerous, and provide the high level ball circulation that our central midfield requires. From Whelan's autobiography:

When Kenny moved me to the holding role in centre midfield for the start of the 1987-88 season, I knew my goal-scoring days were more or less over. Steve McMahon would be the one getting forward, I would be the one screening the back four. Given my own stats, I suppose I could have questioned why I shouldn't be the one getting forward. If I was averaging over ten goals a season I could, in theory at least, have finished my career with over a hundred goals from midfield. But I never asked, Kenny never explained, and I never wanted an explanation. I averaged two goals a season over the next four seasons. I wasn't bothered. This, for me, was a more senior position. And it gave me a new lease of life. It was a fulcrum role, I had more responsibility, I had the chance to control the tempo of a game now.

It meant I was moving further away from the young lad with the alleged star quality who'd burst on to the scene six years earlier. I'd been a cog on the left flank back then, now I was being slotted deeper into the machine, at times almost invisible if you weren't watching closely. Out on the left you might have to take a few more touches before connecting with a teammate, or you might have to take on the full back. Now my job was to break up attacks, win the ball back, and get it moving as fast as I could to Houghton and Barnes and Beardsley who could go and do their dribbling further up the pitch. One touch or two was usually sufficient. The net effect, really, was that you stripped your game down to the basics - no frills at all.

I don't know when or where he said it, but I found an old quote from Sir Alex Ferguson where he said Whelan 'did the simple things better than anybody else i the game'. I don't know about doing it better than anybody else, but doing the simple things was my role now. And it wasn't a role that made you stand out on a pitch...

...All I can say, is that as a footballer, it was the most fulfilling time of my career. You were in the engine room and you were seeing an awful lot more action here: tackling, tracking, blocking, passing, starting moves. You were never far from the ball, whereas out on the left, if the right back had it you were waving to him from sixty yards.

And even though it was mostly the simple pass, I still had chances to find Rushie or Aldo with attacking passes. I ended up with very few goals but a fair few assists along the way. I had the experience to play the role too. I understood better the need for structure in a team. We had loads of attacking flair but one midfielder at least had to shield the defence, break up the other team's attacks, and start ours. And if I didn't get the ball back, who was going to do it? The answer to that one is easy: someone else. They'd have found someone else and I'd have been forgotten about. But I happened to be there at the time and they didn't have to go looking for anybody else to do it.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Good compiliation on Cunningham @Pat_Mustard looks like a powerful and fast two footed players who favors the left slightly more than the right. He's alright in the role here.

Cheers mate. Researching Cunningham has been the highlight of the draft so far for me. Strongly encourage everyone to watch this documentary to understand his historical significance, and the torrid abuse that first generation of black players coming through in England had to endure.



And a great article from the Independent. That is high praise from Del Bosque, to put it mildly:

Spoiler

Of all the legendary players to have worn the Real Madrid shirt down the years, only one has ever left the Nou Camp pitch to a standing ovation. His name was Laurie Cunningham.

On 10 February 1980, the son of a former Jamaican racehorse jockey from Holloway in north London who used to pay his numerous £1 fines for being late to training at Leyton Orient by winning dancing competitions, suddenly became one of the most famous faces in Spain.

A dazzling display in a 2-0 victory at the home of Real's bitter rivals Barcelona was the pinnacle of a meteoric rise that had also seen Cunningham become the first black player ever to wear an England shirt. To mark the 25th anniversary of the game, Madrid newspaper AS ran a feature with the headline "The man who ran riot in the Nou Camp" and quoted one Barcelona fan who was there.
"It was like seeing [Johan] Cruyff but with black skin," he said. "That kid could do anything with a football."

Friday would have been Cunningham's 57th birthday had his life not been tragically cut short in a car crash in Spain in July 1989. Still only 33, he had just helped Madrid's unfashionable Rayo Vallecano reach La Liga for the first time in the latest pitstop on a remarkable journey that also took in Manchester United – Real's opponents in the Champions League tomorrow – West Bromwich Albion, Marseilles, Leicester City, a Marvin Gaye-style exile in Belgium with Charleroi and Wimbledon's Crazy Gang.

First Among Equals: The Laurie Cunningham story will be shown on Wednesday night on ITV1. More than four years in the making by brothers Ben and Gabe Turner of production company Fulwell 73, it features contributions from Cunningham's family members, former team-mates including best friend Cyrille Regis and Brendan Batson and Spain manager Vicente del Bosque, a generation of black players including Ian Wright, John Barnes and Paul Ince, who remember him as their hero and, of course, Ron Atkinson, his manager at West Bromwich and United.

"Watching it was an emotional experience," admits Regis, who played with Cunningham for two seasons at the Hawthorns and became a born-again Christian after his friend's untimely death.

"You've got your memories and stuff in your head about the fun we used to have and some of the games we played. But actually seeing the footage of Laurie really brings it all back."

Starting with the story of how he slept in on his first day at Orient after being released by Arsenal as an unpunctual teenager, the first half of the documentary details the prevalent climate of racism Cunningham encountered in the fledgling days of his career. George Petchey, the manager who gave him his debut at 16, recalls telling his young protégé to respond to having bananas hurled at him by supporters by simply handing them to the linesman, while former Orient team-mate Bobby Fisher remembers their Black Power salute to 10,000 Millwall supporters baying for blood after Cunningham scored the winner in the last minute at the Den.

But it was his £100,000 move to West Bromwich Albion in 1977 and subsequent England Under-21 debut that catapulted Cunningham into the national spotlight. Playing against Scotland in a friendly at Bramall Lane that April, he beat Viv Anderson's debut for the senior side by almost 18 months and blazed the trail for 179 black and mixed race players who have since represented England, although he went on to win only a paltry six senior caps.

Under Atkinson, West Bromwich finished sixth in Cunningham's first season before blowing their chance of the title in the final weeks of the 1978-79 season to eventually trail in third. Wright refers to Cunningham's "jaw-dropping" display in the 5-3 victory at Old Trafford when he ran United defender Stewart Houston ragged as his finest hour, although it was another scintillating performance in a Uefa Cup tie with Mario Kempes' Valencia in December 1978 that had caught the eye of Real Madrid. "I don't think his qualities were any less than Cristiano Ronaldo," says Del Bosque.

"Madrid viewed him as one of the most distinguished footballers in Europe. It was a period when there weren't many international signings and the club made a special effort financially to sign Laurie, to sign a star, because almost all the rest of us were from the youth team."

Cunningham more than justified the £950,000 fee Madrid paid in the summer of 1979 by scoring twice on his debut (once more against Valencia) and helping them win a League and Cup Double, with that night in the Nou Camp a clear highlight.

Regis remembers: "I was in touch with him all the time and we spoke regularly. I used to go out there in the summer every year to spend a bit of time with him.

"For two years it was fantastic for him and he became very famous. Laurie had that mindset to be the very best in the world so we don't know what he could have achieved. I think that's part of the romance of the story."

Long-term partner Nicky Brown, who met Cunningham as a teenager on the dancefloors of north London, confesses that she ended up leaving Spain to escape the "goldfish bowl" his life became afterwards. A horrendous ruptured knee ligament that was allegedly inflicted by a Madrid team-mate in training was the beginning of a downward spiral of luck that would eventually end in his death, although Regis, who now works as an agent for the company that manages Gareth Bale and Ashley Cole among others, disputes Del Bosque's view that he "lacked that competitive spirit required at Real".

"That's his judgement but for me it's more about what Laurie had to deal with coming over from England with no agents or support system like we have nowadays," he says.

Turner, who is also planning a feature film with James Corden already cast as Ron Atkinson, adds: "A theme that runs through the whole documentary was that Laurie was a person who needed to be nurtured.

"At Leyton Orient he had George Petchey and Bobby Fisher who kept an eye on him and then he had a great time at West Brom with Cyrille and Ron. They all took care of him but in Madrid they tried to police him instead and perhaps that wasn't the best way to handle him. When the injuries happened he got left on his own. For Laurie, it was a struggle dealing with the media and they came up with this playboy image of him, even though he never really drank and just loved to go out dancing."

Cunningham achieved yet another first in 1983 when he was reunited with Atkinson at Old Trafford on loan, becoming the pioneer in a list of players to have played for both Manchester United and Real Madrid that now includes Cristiano Ronaldo, David Beckham and Michael Owen. However, in a brutally honest appraisal of his diminishing powers, he asked to be left out of the FA Cup final team that played Brighton that year because, according to his manager, he felt "he couldn't do himself justice in such a big game".

Nonetheless, Cunningham came on as a substitute for Wimbledon in the famous 1-0 victory over Liverpool in 1988 before heading back to Spain for one final tragic season. The 25th anniversary of his death will be marked next year with the unveiling of a statue of Cunningham, Regis and Batson – West Brom's "Three Degrees" – outside the Hawthorns, while a blue plaque is also planned for the Finsbury Park home one of English football's most important figureheads grew up in.

"It's very humbling and I'm sure that his parents and all of his family are very proud," says Regis.

"For the third generation of 16 and 17-year-olds, their heroes are Thierry Henry and people like that. But Laurie has a focal place in history because he inspired so many black players and that story deserves to be told. I hope a lot of dads make their kids sit down and watch it to show that this guy broke down a lot of barriers so that they could play football."

 

[green_smiley]

Steve Perryman

In early days, Perryman was a ball-winning midfield player, a diligent marker and a tenacious opponent. He was very comfortable on the ball and was an intelligent passer and reader of the game.

His runs from the back, his commanding and leadership presence and his all-round versatile style made him a proper Spurs legend, even more so when he played alongside and captained during his Spurs career: Martin Peters, Martin Chivers, Glenn Hoddle, Chris Waddle, Ossie Ardiles and Gary Mabbutt himself to name a few

Steve Perryman became a player who was a true Tottenham Hotspur legend; not just for the amount of silverware he lifted above his head, but also the number of games he played in a career spanning 17 years with the club.

A competitive midfielder, Perryman formed a great partnership with Graeme Souness in the youth side and reserves, before the Scot left for Middlesbrough. Together in midfield, they were part of the side that won the 1970 FA Youth Cup beating Coventry City, but by this time Perryman had broken into the side with some outstanding performances for a 17 year old and he had pushed ahead of Souness.

He quickly became a regular in the team and had a knack of appearing in and around the penalty area to hit powerful shots into the net. His game was to upset the opposition's midfield and get the ball off them before passing it on to the more experienced Alan Mullery or Martin Peters alongside him. However, he soon was comfortable taking the ball forward himself and playing one-twos with Gilzean and Chivers. His presence as a busy worker blossomed into one where he had his own role rather than being a subsidiary to others. When Bill Nicholson thought it was time to rest Perryman in his first season, the team failed to function as it had with him in the line-up, so he was quickly brought back into the side. It was in 1971 that he became Spurs captain at the tender age of 20, by which time he had been involved in several trials for England Youth.

Steve's first winners medal soon came with a vital part in the 2-0 win over a dogged Aston Villa side in the 1971 League Cup Final (helping out with a never-say-die chase to clear a seemingly goal-bound shot by Andy Lochead off the goal-line) and with the UEFA Cup place that win secured, he was a star in the team that went on to win the trophy in it's inaugural season. None more so than in the semi-final first leg, when Tottenham faced crack Italian side AC Milan at the Lane. Being a goal down did not deter Spurs from pressing forward, but it was two long range drives past the keeper from Perryman, latching onto loose balls outside the area, that set up the victory and a place in the final.

The determination that was an integral part of Steve's make up often saw him carrying on when injured and the huge egg that swelled around his eye in a derby game against Arsenal at White Hart Lane was not enough to take him off the pitch, staying in amongst the action to fire another fierce shot to ensure Tottenham took the points from that encounter.

Steve Perryman was a player who always found time for the fans and would happily chat about the club, even when he had just finished a game or was on his way home after a match. Having met him since, he has not changed and said that the game was always about the fans, as they gave him the opportunity to play the game, so he was happy to give something back.

A true hero. A true gentleman.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@Pat_Mustard what was Ipswich formation during their Glory years? 4-3-1-2? Wark was a deep midfielder who routinely moves up?

.....Brazil.......Mariner.......
..............Gates................
Muhren...Wark...Thijssen
...............Back 4................

 

[Pat_Mustard]

@Pat_Mustard what was Ipswich formation during their Glory years? 4-3-1-2? Wark was a deep midfielder who routinely moves up?

.....Brazil.......Mariner.......
..............Gates................
Muhren...Wark...Thijssen
...............Back 4................

I think it was more 4-3-3 than 4-3-1-2, but aye, they seemed to defend with pretty much a flat midfield three with Warlk central, Muhren left midfield and Thijssen right midfield. Muhren was the main playmaker, with the other two playing box to box roles.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

There's little doubt IMO that GS's star man Rush along with Gary Lineker are the two standout centre forwards in the draft. Our man Martin Chivers, however, certainly bears comparison with the best of the rest. Signed for Spurs by the legendary Bill Nicholson for a then British-record transfer fee, at his three year peak (within the draft time-frame) his record is as follows:

1971-72:

League: 25 goals in 39 matches
UEFA Cup: 8 goals in 11 matches

1972-73:

League: 17 goals in 38 matches
UEFA Cup: 8 goals in 10 matches

1973-74:

League: 17 goals in 40 matches
UEFA Cup: 6 goals in 11 matches

I don't have the breakdown by season, but he was also prolific in the domestic cups, hitting 11 goals in 24 matches in the FA Cup and 23 goals in 33 matches in the League Cup. His international career was brief but fairly impressive too, notching 13 goals in 24 games for England between 1971 and 1973.

Strong, very quick, and blessed with a deft touch, he passes the eye test too, scoring an exceptional variety of goals and even sporting a long throw that would make Rory Delap proud.

Vs Scotland in 1971:



1:29 flick on assist for Peters
2:53 superb finish
3:28 good acceleration and finish
4:08 goal disallowed for offside
4:39 strong, composed approach play

Match-winning performance in the 1972 UEFA Cup final:



0:40 headed goal
3:20 incredible goal

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

I think it was more 4-3-3 than 4-3-1-2, but aye, they seemed to defend with pretty much a flat midfield three with Warlk central, Muhren left midfield and Thijssen right midfield. Muhren was the main playmaker, with the other two playing box to box roles.

A very good Ipswich team and pretty fluid but as you say, I wouldnt class Wark as a Def/deep lying MF... centralish at most but (as write up/goals stats show), definitely pushed up, more so at Ipswich than Liverpool.

I do think that front six works and is broadly as they played at peak. Also, I'm a sucker for true wingers.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

A very good Ipswich team and pretty fluid but as you say, I wouldnt class Wark as a Def/deep lying MF... centralish at most but (as write up/goals stats show), definitely pushed up, more so at Ipswich than Liverpool.

I do think that front six works and is broadly as they played at peak. Also, I'm a sucker for true wingers.

Nope, I've seen him classified as a DM but it's a bit erroneous to be honest. I would classify him as an orthodox central midfielder though, as he showed he could do it in two man midfield at Liverpool, and even at Ipswich he seemed to be back around his own penalty area defending when they were out of possession, often as the deepest of that midfield trio. He just wasn't in any way shy about ploughing up into attack as soon as the opportunity presented itself . Aye, I share your love for wingers and if there's ever a draft where they should be at the forefront this is the one.

Erm...I'm probably going to destroy the goodwill you have towards our team, but time to share an all touches video I made of Barnes vs Utd when they pasted us 4-0. The weird thing about this match was that Utd actually played pretty fecking well for the first hour at least, but Liverpool were just fecking brilliant going forward.

Tagging in @Šjor Bepo as a fellow Barnes groupie and the guvnor of all touches vids.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Nah, it's fine.... good football is good football?

Maybe the 5-0 Vs Forest too? Sure Barnes played but not sure of his input.... what I do remember is Forest were still a decent team and Liverpool annilihated them. 5-0, should've been 10. Massacre.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Nah, it's fine.... good football is good football?

Maybe the 5-0 Vs Forest too? Sure Barnes played but not sure of his input.... what I do remember is Forest were still a decent team and Liverpool annilihated them. 5-0, should've been 10. Massacre.

Aye, someone made a Barnes video for that match. Another excellent individual performance from Barnes, although Liverpool as a team looked close to unstoppable that day.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Tagging in @Šjor Bepo as a fellow Barnes groupie and the guvnor of all touches vids.

Brilliant vids mane, looking forward to watching them tonight only watched Barnes for now, as a proper groupie.

PS: joga and harms are still the top dogs regarding all touch vids but its great to see that our little group is getting bigger and bigger