Pre Premier League Draft - Finals - Tuppet vs. Gio

[Indnyc]

This is a Pre Premier League draft from 1971/72 to 1991/92 where managers assemble their squads by selecting players based on their playing performance during this time period only. Performances that fall outside this time period should not be considered. Neither should the players performance for their country/international tournaments be considered. As in any team, team tactics and balance also play a part.

Hence please carefully consider the abovesaid factors and evaluate the merits of both teams before voting for the team which in your opinion is likelier to win the match.

Team Tuppet

VS

Team Gio

Tactics Team Tuppet

Formation - 4-4-2

For the final reinforcement we welcome one of the best player in the draft & one of the best big game player Bryan Robson, who would take on from Bobby Murdoch to lead the team in the final round.

Our team is based on one of the most entertaining and successful teams of the draft era in Liverpool of late 80s. Barnes, Beardsley, Hansen & Rush were the pillars of Liverpool's success in this era and have great chemistry as well game winning pedigree. They are then supported by some other great players in the draft in Robson, Shilton, Johnstone & Alan Ball.

In Summary we have better goalkeeper by far in Shilton, the best defender in Hansen, the best midfielder in Robson, best winger in Barnes & best pure striker in Ian Rush. While team Gio has the best overall attacker in Dalglish as a unit our attack is better esp the fantastic Barnes-Beardsley connection that worked for both Liverpool & England. I think the quality & chemistry in our side should be enough to get a win against Gio's brilliant team.

Strikers:

• Ian Rush - PFA & FWA player of the year 1984. European golden boot- 1984. 5 times team of the year & Won 5 first division as well 2 European cups.
• Peter Beardsley - PFA team of the year - 1987, 1988, 1990. Won first division - 1987-88, 1989-90

Up front we have a typical creator-scorer duo with Ian Rush as the best out and out goal scorer in the draft and Beardsley as one of the most creative player. Rush's goal. Beardsley would be playing as a withdrawn striker, often drop deep to carry the ball forward using his brilliant dribbling and technique. They also combined beautifully in 1990 season to give Liverpool a first division title win.

Midfield:

• Bryan Robson - IMO the Best player in the draft.
• Alan Ball.

In the central midfield we have Robson & Ball. Two very high energy midfielder who would cover every inch of the pitch supporting both attack & defense. Robson would be more defensive of the duo while Alan ball with his exceptional tenacity and technique would be playing in an attacking box to box role. Ball's defensive work rate as well as ability to pop up with important goals/crosses is very important for our midfield.

Wingers:

• John Barnes - PFA player of the year - 1988, FWA Footballer of the year - 1988, 1990, PFA team of the year - 1987-88, 1989-90, 1990-91, Won first division - 1987-88, 1989-90
• Jimmy Johnstone - Won Scottish league - 1971–72, 1972–73, 1973–74

Probably the best wing combination in draft Johnstone and Barnes provide brilliant wing play. Jinky johnstone is one of the best player on the park, an exceptional winger who was arguably the best player in Britain in early 70s. One of the greatest dribbler of all time, he is given a free role here, where he could chose to provide chances to Rush & Beardsley while also able to cut inside to finish some chances himself. On left we upgraded Sharpe to Barnes. One of England's truly great winger, Barnes here resume his mesmeric partnership with Beardsely, that brought some great moments for both Liverpool & England.

Central defense:

• Alan Hansen - 6 times PFA team of the Year, 8 times Won the English first division, 3 times won European cup.
• Mike England - Won Uefa cup 1972, League cup 1971 & 1973

In central defense we have partnership of Hansen - England. Hansen is arguably the best CB in the draft. He would be in his usual ball playing role. Mike England as a towering center half compliments Hansen perfectly. Together this partnership should be able to deal with threats both on deck and in the air.

Fullbacks:

• Terry Cooper - Fairs cup - 1971.
• Paul Madeley - PFA team of the year - 1973–74, 1974–75, 1975–76, Leeds player of the year - 1976, First division winner - 1973-74

In fullback positions we have Leeds duo of Terry Cooper and Paul Madeley. Cooper was a defender full of innovation. His fitness, skill and an ability to cross the ball meant he could perform a devastating overlap down the left flank. On the right side we have another Leeds legend in Madeley. While a player without profile who could play anywhere on the pitch he was immensely talented, racking up 711 appearances for an excellent Leeds vintage while winning Leeds player of the year in 76 and getting 3 times in PFA team of the year. He job is to stay balanced with a defense first attitude as in Jinky we have a very attacking presence in that wing.

Goalkeeper:

• Peter Shilton - PFA Player of the year - 1977-78, IOC European Footballer of the Season: 1979–80, 10 times PFA team of the year, Nottingham Forest F.C. Player of the Year: 1981–82, Southampton F.C. Player of the Season: 1984–85, 1985–86

Our other reinforcement pick was used to upgrade Bonner to arguably the best goalkeeper in draft in Shilton. We don't need to say too much about him and his rewards tells it all. A brilliant goalkeeper that would go a long way to further secure our defense.

Tactics Team Gio

WHY WE WILL WIN:​

• Two great attacks on show, but one has too much attacking power relative to the defence it faces. To me the Dalglish/Hughes combo will test England and Hansen to the limit, Lennox will have the pace and service to burst beyond Madeley, while Waddle could be a match-winner against Terry Cooper who, with less than a single season of his best performances, is there for the taking. Collectively there is a range of attacking weaponry - width, invention, incision, pace, strength, aerial ability - there that will be hard to defend against.
  
  
• The move to 4-2-3-1 is about getting the best out of Kenny Dalglish and Glenn Hoddle. Dalglish drops into the hole where he was almost undefendable for Celtic and Liverpool. Here he should find space given neither Robbo and Ball, for all their multiple talents, were inclined to anchor the midfield (preferring to press and push on). Hoddle meanwhile is in the same right central midfield role he shone so brightly with at Monaco and Spurs, with runners and creative options aplenty ahead to unleash his passing ability upon. Stopping one of them might be possible, but both is unlikely.
  
  
• The team benefits from a serious core of leadership of the greatest ever 'Ger John Greig, the serial winner Richard Gough, Leeds United captain and legend Billy Bremner and warrior left-back Stuart Pearce. The influence that central core will have on the rest of the team and the outcome of the game cannot be underestimated. Up top the Dalglish and Hughes pairing both shone when the pressure was greatest, delivering the goods in major European finals time after time.
  
  
• Crucially our defence have a better chance of cancelling out the opposition attack. Despite beasting just about every defender in the pool, Ian Rush failed to score a single goal in 4 games against Richard Gough. Next to him is John Greig who, as a hybrid defender and midfielder, is well suited to tracking Beardsley and shutting out his space. On the left, a prime Pearce should be a tough assignment for a Johnstone who starts the draft at a high level but fades fairly quickly. On the right, John Barnes rates Viv Anderson as his toughest opponent and the best right-back he's ever played with or against.

PLAYERS:
​

Andy Goram
Scotland's greatest ever keeper and a legend at both Hibs and Rangers. In February 1990, World Soccer magazine stated that he had been in 'outstanding form during the last 3 years'. And in 1991 he became Britain's most expensive ever goalkeeper when signing for Rangers for £1.8m, going on to keep 25 clean sheets during his debut double-winning season. Exceptional shot-stopper with razor-sharp reflexes.

Richard Gough
Athletic and imposing, Gough was a classic attack-the-first ball centre half. His dynamism, professionalism and leadership were the bedrock behind Rangers' 9-in-a-row side during a career when he hauled in 21 trophies. Not just an SPL flat-track bully, as he twice almost won the European Cup, first with Dundee United in 1984/85 when they were edged out by Roma in a contentious semi, and second with Rangers as they were a goal away from knocking out Marseille in 1992/93. Given both clubs' form with referees and bribery at the time, he's rather unfortunate not to add a European Cup medal to that collection. Exceptional man-marker, famously shackled Van Basten at Euro '92, who also shone brightly at Spurs making the all-time XIs of the players that each of Graeme Souness, Glenn Hoddle and Gary Mabbutt have played with. Read more...

Viv Anderson
One of the finest right-backs England has ever produced. A bedrock of Clough's great double European Cup winning Forest team, Anderson won 96% of the vote when fans voted the right-back into their greatest ever XI. Outstanding for Arsenal as well where fans who know their stuff will also rank him as their greatest ever right-back (unless you want to insert George's back 4 unit in en masse). Gangly, dynamic, defensively solid and a keen ball-carrier, Anderson was a modern yet robust full-back.

• Notts Forest All-Time XI
• European Cup Winner 1979, 1980
• English First Division Winner 1977/78
• PFA Team of the Year 1978, 1980 and 1987

John Greig
Voted Rangers' Greatest Ever Player, Greig was a born leader, a one-club man whose statue stands outside Ibrox today and remains the only man to have won the treble three times. A combative, commanding and energetic midfielder whose intelligence and understanding of the game enabled him to slip seamlessly across the back line as the needs of his club demanded. Here he moves into the left-back role where he won his Scottish Player of the Year award as he captained his side to the treble in 1976.

• SFWA Footballer of the Year 1975/76
• European Cup Winners Cup Winner 1971/72
• Multiple domestic titles and trophies (including 3 trebles)

Stuart Pearce
Brimming with leadership, passion and a left peg that packed a punch, Pearce was a huge influence on the players around him and the fortunes of Forest. Took Sansom's ever-present spot in the PFA Team of the Year to become the unanimous choice at left-back from 1987 through to 1992. Played like a man possessed in 1990/91, scoring a frankly ridiculous 16 goals from left-back.

• PFA Team of the Year 1987/88, 1988/89, 1989/90, 1990/91, 1991/92
• Nottingham Forest Player of the Year 1988/89, 1990/91

Billy Bremner
'10 stone of barbed wire', Bremner was the driving force behind the great Leeds team of the early-to-mid 1970s. Hard as nails, but an exceptional all-round player who dominated midfields at all levels as regularly as anyone in the pool.

• Division One Winner 1973/74
• FA Cup Winner 1972
• European Cup Runner-Up 1974/75
• PFA Team of the Season 1973/74
• Leeds United Greatest Ever Player
• FWA Footballer of the Year 1970

Glenn Hoddle
One of the most gifted English players of all time. Technically exquisite, Hoddle's two-footedness and eyes-in-the-back-of-his-head vision allowed him to play early and penetrating passes before defences had time to react. Despite operating in the era of English football least conducive to enabling creative players, Hoddle was a sustained success, an almost ever-present in the PFA Team of the Year through the 1980s.

• UEFA Cup winner: 1984
• FA Cup winner: 1981, 1982
• PFA Young Player of the Year: 1979–80
• PFA Second Division Team of the Year: 1977–78
• PFA First Division Team of the Year: 1979–80, 1981–82, 1983–84, 1985–86, 1986–87
• PFA Team of the Century

Bobby Lennox
Celtic's greatest ever left winger. Heavy duty goalscorer from out wide scoring a whopping 234 goals during Celtic's 9-in-a-row stretch. Lennox was 27 at the start of the draft period where his record holds up well:

Spoiler

1971/72 - 44 games, 19 goals
1972/73 - 29 games, 17 goals
1973/74 - 32 games, 27 goals
1974/75 - 19 games, 8 goals
1975/76 - 36 games, 14 goals

That would be an impressive enough return for a centre-forward, better still for a left winger. Incidentally it's no surprise that the season Celtic's run came to an end was the same season that Lennox was missing for large parts through injury. Lennox aged better than a lot of the Lisbon Lion generation, retaining his searing pace into his early 30s owing much to both his genetic gifts and his professional attitude off the park. He was the last of that great team to retire in 1980, having scored a further 15 goals in his final campaign.

Chris Waddle
Dribbling king whose close control, invention and goal threat made him a handful for even the best opposition. Although he hit double figures 5 times out of 6 from 1983 to 1989, it was his shuffling, shimmying and almost undefendable dribbling style that stood him out from the crowd. His form in England prompted Marseille to make him the 3rd most expensive player of all time (behind Maradona and Gullit) in 1989.

• PFA Team of the Year 1984/85 and 1988/89
• Spurs Player of the Year 1988

Kenny Dalglish
Liverpool and Scotland's greatest ever player. Dalglish was the complete attacker: scorer of a whopping 336 goals, two-footed, sensational at linking up play and holding the ball up.

• 10 league titles
• 10 domestic cups (FA/League)
• 3 European Cups
• Ballon d'Or: Runner-up 1983
• FWA Footballer of the Year: 1978–79, 1982–83
• PFA Players' Player of the Year: 1982–83
• IOC European Footballer of the Season: 1977–78

Mark Hughes
Warrior centre-forward who made a career out of bullying centre-halves. Worked off limited service at times during the 1980s for United, but still regularly impacted games securing two Player of the Year awards. Perhaps the best volleyer of a ball the British game has seen.

• PFA Player of the Year 1988/89, 1990/91
• PFA Young Player of the Year 1984/85
• European Cup Winners Cup Winner 1991
• European Super Cup Winner 1991
• FA Cup and League Cup Winner 1985, 1990, 1992

 

[Indnyc]

Good luck @Gio and @Tuppet

 

[Thunderhead]

good luck, I was going to go with Tuppet but eventually went with Gio as I liked his formation to get the best out of Daglish and I preferred his midfield 2

 

[Gio]

A little bit on the Barnes v Anderson battle:

Right-back: Viv Anderson.

That would be have to be my old England team-mate Viv. He was an exceptional player and won almost everything with Nottingham Forest, including two European Cups. He was a great attacking right-back so he would have to be my in my team.

I had some good battles with John Barnes. If you asked him who his toughest opponent was he’d probably say me and I’m saying him because we had some ding-dongs. Liverpool v Man United were always big games anyway.

As was Forest against West Brom. Both clubs were in a good place, West Brom had players like Laurie Cunningham, Derek Statham, Cyrille Regis – so there was lots of talk about both teams and the good players we had. Their left winger was Willie Johnston and we had some ding-dong battles as well.

 

[Indnyc]

This looks to be a very high scoring game.. So much attacking potential for both teams.. I'll wait for Tuppets comments before voting. Gio's reinforcement to get Pearce looks perfect to defend against Tuppets wide players.

Given the context of the draft, i am finding it hard to pick holes in Gios team

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Tough match this one. Both attacks outclass the defenses they are up against. I can see both sides scoring at least one. Leaning towards Tuppet though at his point on the sheer power of Shilton in goal.
Shilton > Goram is the biggest mismatch on the pitch for me.

 

[Tuppet]

Best of luck @Gio

 

[Tuppet]

There is not much I have thats not mentioned in the OP. Again both attacks are very good, but I think my defensive duo of Hansen - England is superior and with Robson in front & Shiton in behind would have a better chance of containing gio's attack. It does look like an open ended game and we will definitely be looking to outscore the opposition here.

 

[Gio]

Best of luck @Gio

And you. Fine team you've assembled yet again.

 

[idmanager]

Voted without looking at the GK's, might reconsider. My first game in this draft where I didn't need to be a scan voter.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Has Dalglish ever played as a #10?

 

[Gio]

Has Dalglish ever played as a #10?

Yes, countless times. He's played across the forward line at Celtic, as an 8 there and for Scotland, and then in a range of central attacking roles for Liverpool, be it as the 9, 9.5 or 10.

His career at Liverpool was stellar. He was voted the greatest ever player at a club that has had one or two. But despite a winning goal in a European Cup final and a career in which his success stretched into his tenure as a player/manager on the Mersey, he is remembered with awe as a player with Celtic. He was the primary seven boy playing with the toddlers. Dalglish could take the ball from the goalkeeper and progress up the field with the minimal assistance of an odd 1-2 and thump the ball past the opposition goalkeeper. Red-cheeked and bright-eyed, he always celebrated a goal as if he was surprised at his genius. His finishing was honed by Jock Stein, who regularly took a bag of balls on to the training field and told Dalglish simply to pass the ball into the net. He did this for the rest of his career. There is a case to be made that Dalglish played out of position for all his career, being at the focal point of the Liverpool attack. He certainly had the guile, skill and technique to be a midfielder of world class. He was also brave, robust and disciplined.

Although he faded slightly later in the season and had reverted on occasion to his original position of right-half, he was at inside-left in the 6-1 annihilation of Hibs in the '72 Scottish Cup final as Celtic clinched another double. Capable of playing in any of the front line positions Dalglish would be a wonderful asset to Celtic in the coming years.

The young boy wants to do everything, to pick the ball up at left-back, run 40 or 50 yards, make the pass and then go for the return in the box. Even for someone as good as he is - and he's brilliant - that's not on, certainly not for the full 90 minutes. But Kenny is so special that he'll get his ideas sorted out soon enough and then it's hard to imagine a better player in Britain or anywhere else.

 

[Gio]

Voted without looking at the GK's, might reconsider. My first game in this draft where I didn't need to be a scan voter.

Notwithstanding the undoubted quality of Shilton, Andy Goram is no slouch in this company either. He's got a good five years of top-end performances for Hibs and Rangers. That was him at his physical peak, long before he was a bloated fat mess when he came to Old Trafford. It was that sustained performance level that makes him the most expensive keeper in the draft pool.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Yes, countless times. He's played across the forward line at Celtic, as an 8 there and for Scotland, and then in a range of central attacking roles for Liverpool, be it as the 9, 9.5 or 10.

Aye, the ill-fated 1985 European Cup final is a high-profile example of him dropping back into a midfield role, presumably to try to gain a foothold in terms of possession against an ultra-strong Juventus midfield.

No issues with his role in this match whatsoever.

 

[Indnyc]

Think the match comes down to preference in players.. I like Gios full backs more than Tuppets.. Like Tuppets center backs more

The front 6 is equally brilliant for both teams.. It’s going to be a high scoring match and I won’t be surprised if it’ll be settled by average pick time ( )

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Think the match comes down to preference in players.. I like Gios full backs more than Tuppets.. Like Tuppets center backs more

The front 6 is equally brilliant for both teams.. It’s going to be a high scoring match and I won’t be surprised if it’ll be settled by average pick time ( )

Aye, given the lack of obvious weak links or any tactical flaws it basically comes down to individual quality for me, where I think Tuppet edges it. Barnes, Robson and Rush are the best in the pool in their respective positions IMO, and Shilton, Hansen and later-career Johnstone are right up there in contention too. For Gio only Dalglish is really a cut and dried Draft XI pick IMO, with Waddle also a firm contender for the right wing berth. As a means of comparison it's a bit of a blunt instrument that doesn't do justice to the abilities of the likes of Bremner and Hoddle, but it was clear throughout the reinforcements that Tuppet was landing a freaky amount of quality in comparison to the others.

 

[Gio]

Tough match this one. Both attacks outclass the defenses they are up against. I can see both sides scoring at least one. Leaning towards Tuppet though at his point on the sheer power of Shilton in goal.
Shilton > Goram is the biggest mismatch on the pitch for me.

See above on Goram. As for the biggest mismatch, there are very few with a lot of similar quality and styles of players in both teams. But I would say the clearest mismatch on the park is Chris Waddle against Terry Cooper. Not just in a quality sense (because I rate Cooper quite highly in this company), but in terms of their contribution to the era. Cooper has the mere sum of 34 league games before the broken leg which basically signalled the end of his top level career. Which is feck all when every other defender on the park boasts several hundred. The man he's up against has over 10 times as many appearances in England up to the age of 28, and benefits from the great synergy he shared with Hoddle inside him on the park and the stage.

However, just as West Germany were coming into view for the final, vital pair of qualifiers in April 1972, Cooper broke his leg while playing for Leeds and such was the seriousness of the injury, he didn't kick a ball at any level for two and a half years. Hughes took over the role in the meantime, despite being clearly not a long-term option due to his status as a right-footed centre back with Liverpool, but still no left footer had unequivocally claimed the No.3 shirt by the time Cooper was available again, and his old Leeds boss Don Revie loyally gave him his 20th cap in a qualifier for the 1976 European Championships against Portugal at Wembley. It ended 0-0, Cooper was clearly lacking in fitness, pace and general sure-footedness after so long out, and the experiment was rapidly brought to a close. Terry moved to Middlesbrough three months later, thereby accepting that he wouldn't play at the very highest level again.[/quote[

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Tough

man for man comparisons, I'd probably pick six of Gios and five of Tuppets BUT that Liverpool link gets bonus points as does Robson.

 

[Gio]

One area where I think we can get some joy is through Bobby Lennox bombing down the channel between Madeley and England. I don't think either would have the pace to keep up with him. And he could get on the end of some Daglish-esque service here:

https://archive.org/details/CelticVLeedsUnited1970EuropeanCupSemiFinal
(13.03)

That's him getting beyond Madeley and the Leeds defence, before the right-back finally salvages the situation by making the clearance off the line.

Or Hughes and Dalglish-esque service here:

Spoiler

Or renewing his partnership with Dalglish to surge down the left:

Spoiler

Or just go solo:

Spoiler

 

[Theon]

Has Dalglish ever played as a #10?

Yes.

 

[Indnyc]

Aye, given the lack of obvious weak links or any tactical flaws it basically comes down to individual quality for me, where I think Tuppet edges it. Barnes, Robson and Rush are the best in the pool in their respective positions IMO, and Shilton, Hansen and later-career Johnstone are right up there in contention too. For Gio only Dalglish is really a cut and dried Draft XI pick IMO, with Waddle also a firm contender for the right wing berth. As a means of comparison it's a bit of a blunt instrument that doesn't do justice to the abilities of the likes of Bremner and Hoddle, but it was clear throughout the reinforcements that Tuppet was landing a freaky amount of quality in comparison to the others.

In the context of this draft, I’ll probably add Pearce and Viv Anderson to it as well. Probably McGrain and Sansom would be higher than them but not many others

 

[Gio]

Just to get a flavour of how highly Goram was regarded in the late 1980s for Hibs, it's interesting to see he is almost unanimously regarded as the club's best ever. Despite the usually legacy-killing moves of going on to play for Rangers and falling in with the opposing political/sectarian crowd.

Goram is the best keeper I've seen play for Hibs. Some of the saves he used to pull off were unbelievably good.

Best Hibs goalie I've ever seen - Andy Goram by a mile.

Defo has to be Goram.

Remember the time when he was playing against us for Rangers, some numpty ran onto the pitch from the hibs end and attacked him.

Remember Goram was on top of the guy and if he didn't hold himself back would probably have knocked 10 bells oot the guy.

Andy Goram for me, absolutely world class goalkeeper and twice the keeper that Craig Gordon is. If he had his head screwed on then he would've been recognised as one of the best ever.

I can still see his save in Liege to this day but I believe there was another one from Crabbe at Tynecastle which was even better in a 3-1 loss where Torto scored for us.

Best keeper we ever had.Remember going to Liege and he had a save that night that is one of the best i ever seen.Gutted when he moved to Rangers, but even more so when he sold his story to some sunday rag that David Murray had at the time.About how everyone was battling in training etc.This was the time just after Mercers takeover bid, and we were skint.Sold out his old team mates and i remember Pat Mcginlay telling the papers it was a load of $#@!e and he would be Telling Goram that when he seen him.

Andy Goram (the goalkeeper)= the best Hibs/Scotland have had in the last 20 years , easy peasy no doubt about it

Andy Goram (the person) = raging gambling alcoholic wife beating caravan shagging terrorist loving ,couldnae gie a flying fook about my bairns money grabbing ugly jakey drunk driving scruffy c%%t .

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?204758-Who-was-Hibs-best-Goal-Keeper-Ever

Goram has been in outstanding form during the last three years at Hibs.

And then a whopping 25 clean sheets in his first season at Rangers. And don't downplay that because it was the Scottish league. That season Scotland qualified for the 8-team Euros, were drawn in the toughest group, and were hugely unfortunate not to qualify for the semis, ending the tournament with the 5th best record of any country. The following season Rangers were a goal away from the Champions League final.

And it's worth remembering that he forged a telepathic partnership with Richard Gough in front of him for club and country, winning dozens of titles together.

 

[Gio]

Now don't forget it's a final, which means that Sparky turbocharges into match-winning form:

 

[Pat_Mustard]

In the context of this draft, I’ll probably add Pearce and Viv Anderson to it as well. Probably McGrain and Sansom would be higher than them but not many others

Pearce and Anderson are near the top of the pile in their positions for sure, but McGrain and Sansom have those full back positions locked down IMO. My XI would probably be something along the lines of:

GK: Jennngs is my preference, but feck all between him and Shilton really.
RB: McGrain
CB: McGrath
CB: Hansen
LB: Sansom
RW: Johnstone or Waddle, or else Liam Brady in a wide playmaker gig,
CM: Robbo
CM: Souness
LW: Barnes
SS: Dalglish
CF: Rush, with Lineker as his closest competition.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Pearce and Anderson are near the top of the pile in their positions for sure, but McGrain and Sansom have those full back positions locked down IMO. My XI would probably be something along the lines of:

GK: Jennngs is my preference, but feck all between him and Shilton really.
RB: McGrain
CB: McGrath
CB: Hansen
LB: Sansom
RW: Johnstone or Waddle, or else Liam Brady in a wide playmaker gig,
CM: Robbo
CM: Souness
LW: Barnes
SS: Dalglish
CF: Rush, with Lineker as his closest competition.

Spooky. Just PMed Indy on something and was thinking of my XI from this draft and picked pretty much exact same team except Shilton and McDermott over Souness (better player, better perm).

Shilton
McGrain McGrath Hansen Sansom
Johnstone McDermott Robson Barnes
Dalglish
Rush

I'd fancy that team against pretty much anything in terms of UK teams, even Uniteds 94, 99, 08.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Southall
Irwin Gough Todd Pearce
Waddle Hoddle Souness Robertson
Beardsley
Lineker

Jennings
Neal Adams Butcher Hughes
Lorimer Bremner Platt Brady
Gazza
McCoist

Pretty good depth in the time period....?

 

[Gio]

For me Dalglish is the best player in the pool and more importantly he could be set to have a fine game here. Dropping off the front line into the hole, I'm not really sure who picks him up. In midfield neither Robbo or Ball want to sit in there - they're both at their best galavanting up the park and paired with someone to release them. And in defence, neither Hansen or England would be that well suited to tracking into midfield. Or if they did it creates space for Lennox to buzz into. And from that position he can either create a goal or score himself.

 

[Tuppet]

Not much wrong in whats posted so far, but Robson can surely track Dalglish, while also providing attacking on the other end. Thats the whole point of Robbo and he did a fine job doing it against Maradona while also doing more than his fair share of attacking.



He is also one of the finest big game player ever so his impact on final should be understated.

 

[Tuppet]

Not to forget the best pure striker on the pitch, Rush had the rare ability to score out of nowhere.

 

[Indnyc]

Pearce and Anderson are near the top of the pile in their positions for sure, but McGrain and Sansom have those full back positions locked down IMO. My XI would probably be something along the lines of:

GK: Jennngs is my preference, but feck all between him and Shilton really.
RB: McGrain
CB: McGrath
CB: Hansen
LB: Sansom
RW: Johnstone or Waddle, or else Liam Brady in a wide playmaker gig,
CM: Robbo
CM: Souness
LW: Barnes
SS: Dalglish
CF: Rush, with Lineker as his closest competition.

Yup! With you on this.. Thinking about this game a bit more, do Robson and Ball work as a midfield 2?

Both of them were b2b midfielders and slightly more attacking in nature?

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

See above on Goram. As for the biggest mismatch, there are very few with a lot of similar quality and styles of players in both teams. But I would say the clearest mismatch on the park is Chris Waddle against Terry Cooper. Not just in a quality sense (because I rate Cooper quite highly in this company), but in terms of their contribution to the era. Cooper has the mere sum of 34 league games before the broken leg which basically signalled the end of his top level career. Which is feck all when every other defender on the park boasts several hundred. The man he's up against has over 10 times as many appearances in England up to the age of 28, and benefits from the great synergy he shared with Hoddle inside him on the park and the stage.

Some great information and I always learn a lot from your posts. I tend to agree about Cooper from what I read but ultimately Shilton just edges it for me.
I just feel in this type of match the difference in keeper quality is going to edge it in majority of matches out of 10 or 100 (and I feel Shilton gets a little underrated historically because Forest isn't currently considered a sexy side).

 

[Frank Grimes]

I always felt that Goram was a weak link in Gio's side. Decent keeper, maybe even good but never a keeper I'd want in a final of a competition as competitive as this. Also I never felt Dalglish and Hughes were a good match up front, I see them both as forwards who like to drop deep. Hughes was never an on the shoulder forward who could fully benefit from Dalglish's through balls, he could do it of course but was never really a clinical finisher. Having said that, he was a really good big game player so I'm not sure if I should take that into account or not for this tie.

I don't know how Tuppet got Barnes,Beardsley and Rush in the same side must have been a bit lucky with the draw. To have Robson behind them almost feels like cheating. Ball beside him against the elegant but not hard tackling Hoddle seems like it's an area where a clear upper hand can be gained by Tuppet's midfield.

It's Tuppet for me.

For me Dalglish is the best player in the pool and more importantly he could be set to have a fine game here. Dropping off the front line into the hole, I'm not really sure who picks him up. In midfield neither Robbo or Ball want to sit in there - they're both at their best galavanting up the park and paired with someone to release them. And in defence, neither Hansen or England would be that well suited to tracking into midfield. Or if they did it creates space for Lennox to buzz into. And from that position he can either create a goal or score himself.

Peak Barnes is the best player in the draft imho, sensational between 87-90. Unstoppable.

 

[Gio]

Some great information and I always learn a lot from your posts. I tend to agree about Cooper from what I read but ultimately Shilton just edges it for me.
I just feel in this type of match the difference in keeper quality is going to edge it in majority of matches out of 10 or 100 (and I feel Shilton gets a little underrated historically because Forest isn't currently considered a sexy side).

Yeah that’s fair. Shilton was top of my keeper pile too so I can’t argue with your rationale there.

 

[Moby]

Has Dalglish ever played as a #10?

Yes.

 

[Gio]

Some good points in there Grimey, let me address:

I always felt that Goram was a weak link in Gio's side. Decent keeper, maybe even good but never a keeper I'd want in a final of a competition as competitive as this.

Happy to acknowledge he's not in the top tier of Jennings and Shilton. Also happy to concede that Southall and Clemence's careers dovetail with the draft period better in that Goram continued to build his legacy after 1992. But apart from them, Goram is easily the match of anyone else in the pool. His overall career brings him right into the mix with those top four, but would place him just below based on his body of work up to 1992. After all he is:

• Hibs, Rangers and Scotland's greatest ever keeper
• The most expensive keeper in the pool

Also I never felt Dalglish and Hughes were a good match up front, I see them both as forwards who like to drop deep. Hughes was never an on the shoulder forward who could fully benefit from Dalglish's through balls, he could do it of course but was never really a clinical finisher. Having said that, he was a really good big game player so I'm not sure if I should take that into account or not for this tie.

While Hughes wasn't the Rush type, Dalglish played with a huge range of different forwards at Celtic, Scotland and Liverpool - the likes of Jordan, Law, Heighway, Johnson, John Hughes, etc. There was never a question of compatability - he always got the best out of those around him.

And Mark Hughes' favourite strike partner over the years was none other than Eric Cantona - a player who shares many of the second-striker, creative and clever-body-use tendencies as Dalglish. And if you look at the great United side of around 1993/94, with those two through the middle and Giggs and Kanchelskis buzzing down the flanks, it's not hugely dissimilar here.

I don't know how Tuppet got Barnes,Beardsley and Rush in the same side must have been a bit lucky with the draw. To have Robson behind them almost feels like cheating. Ball beside him against the elegant but not hard tackling Hoddle seems like it's an area where a clear upper hand can be gained by Tuppet's midfield.

Aye the bastard has reinforced brilliantly. On the midfield though, I don't think it's fair to say he'll get an upper hand there. Billy Bremner's peak is just as good as Robson's in this pool. Look at the 1973 Ballon D'Or rankings for one thing:

It's not like that it's a weak era either. Look at the GOATs ahead of him. He's the only midfielder in the entire pool to get into the top 5 in the Ballon D'Or. It's hard enough for proper midfielders to get recognised through the Ballon D'Or, harder still when they're competing with the greatest concentration of European GOAT talent there has ever been.

As for Hoddle/Ball, Hoddle is the greater player and a neater fit with the era as well. In terms of style, Ball had more energy for sure, but Hoddle played well in midfield pairs at Spurs, with Robson for England, and at Monaco. He would thrive with such an array of technical players around and in front of him to hook up with.

Peak Barnes is the best player in the draft imho, sensational between 87-90. Unstoppable.

Yeah he was brilliant then. Shame he's up against his hardest ever opponent though. Plus I think there aren't many Liverpool fans who would rate Barnes ahead of Dalglish and I'm sure that's backed up by the greatest ever polls they've carried out.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Some good points in there Grimey, let me address:

Happy to acknowledge he's not in the top tier of Jennings and Shilton. Also happy to concede that Southall and Clemence's careers dovetail with the draft period better in that Goram continued to build his legacy after 1992. But apart from them, Goram is easily the match of anyone else in the pool. His overall career brings him right into the mix with those top four, but would place him just below based on his body of work up to 1992. After all he is:

• Hibs, Rangers and Scotland's greatest ever keeper
• The most expensive keeper in the pool

While Hughes wasn't the Rush type, Dalglish played with a huge range of different forwards at Celtic, Scotland and Liverpool - the likes of Jordan, Law, Heighway, Johnson, John Hughes, etc. There was never a question of compatability - he always got the best out of those around him.

And Mark Hughes' favourite strike partner over the years was none other than Eric Cantona - a player who shares many of the second-striker, creative and clever-body-use tendencies as Dalglish. And if you look at the great United side of around 1993/94, with those two through the middle and Giggs and Kanchelskis buzzing down the flanks, it's not hugely dissimilar here.


Aye the bastard has reinforced brilliantly. On the midfield though, I don't think it's fair to say he'll get an upper hand there. Billy Bremner's peak is just as good as Robson's in this pool. Look at the 1973 Ballon D'Or rankings for one thing:

It's not like that it's a weak era either. Look at the GOATs ahead of him. He's the only midfielder in the entire pool to get into the top 5 in the Ballon D'Or. It's hard enough for proper midfielders to get recognised through the Ballon D'Or, harder still when they're competing with the greatest concentration of European GOAT talent there has ever been.

As for Hoddle/Ball, Hoddle is the greater player and a neater fit with the era as well. In terms of style, Ball had more energy for sure, but Hoddle played well in midfield pairs at Spurs, with Robson for England, and at Monaco. He would thrive with such an array of technical players around and in front of him to hook up with.


Yeah he was brilliant then. Shame he's up against his hardest ever opponent though. Plus I think there aren't many Liverpool fans who would rate Barnes ahead of Dalglish and I'm sure that's backed up by the greatest ever polls they've carried out.

Agree with all of this.... Goram is undervalued possibly because of the lack of English/Intl comps exposure (though Shilton still No.1), Hughes is fine playing as he is/who he's with (he loved sitting on a CH), Bremner superb (there are some GOATS behind him in that list too?!) and there is no way on Earth that Barnes is a better player than Dalglish (peak or career).

The only caveat I'd add is Bremners peak may have matched Robson but Robson did it for longer in the period of this draft? (and with less ability around him).

As said before, individually, I'd pick six of your players but that Liverpool three is superb and for me, Shilton, Robson, Rush get bonus points as not only the best goalie/B2B/goalscorer in this draft but I'd also hold them up against non UK players in that position in the period (same as I would with Dalglish ....... who's the second best player in this draft ).

I'm thinking 3-2 Tuppet but very close.

 

[Gio]

Agree with all of this.... Goram is undervalued possibly because of the lack of English/Intl comps exposure (though Shilton still No.1), Hughes is fine playing as he is/who he's with (he loved sitting on a CH), Bremner superb (there are some GOATS behind him in that list too?!) and there is no way on Earth that Barnes is a better player than Dalglish (peak or career).

The only caveat I'd add is Bremners peak may have matched Robson but Robson did it for longer in the period of this draft? (and with less ability around him).

As said before, individually, I'd pick six of your players but that Liverpool three is superb and for me, Shilton, Robson, Rush get bonus points as not only the best goalie/B2B/goalscorer in this draft but I'd also hold them up against non UK players in that position in the period (same as I would with Dalglish ....... who's the second best player in this draft ).

I'm thinking 3-2 Tuppet but very close.

Fair comments.

I need to stop posting here - every time I leak some more votes.

But anyway, congratulations @Tuppet - on-point drafting as usual and a raft of exceptional reinforcements. I'd banked on MJJ getting McGrath in the last reinforcement round, which would have ensured every team had a top-banana CB (Hansen, McGrath and Walker) to pluck should I be lucky enough to get to the final. But hey-ho, can't really argue with securing the likes of Dalglish, Hughes, Bremner and Pearce - everyone in my XI was final worthy. Enjoyed the draft a lot. Watched the 1970 European Cup Semi-Final and the 1972 FA Cup Final over the last couple of days. Standard was really impressive and the pace a lot higher than often perceived - all the teams were very fit. It's been good to look back at a lot of these players and teams.

 

[Indnyc]

Fair comments.

I need to stop posting here - every time I leak some more votes.

But anyway, congratulations @Tuppet - on-point drafting as usual and a raft of exceptional reinforcements. I'd banked on MJJ getting McGrath in the last reinforcement round, which would have ensured every team had a top-banana CB (Hansen, McGrath and Walker) to pluck should I be lucky enough to get to the final. But hey-ho, can't really argue with securing the likes of Dalglish, Hughes, Bremner and Pearce - everyone in my XI was final worthy. Enjoyed the draft a lot. Watched the 1970 European Cup Semi-Final and the 1972 FA Cup Final over the last couple of days. Standard was really impressive and the pace a lot higher than often perceived - all the teams were very fit. It's been good to look back at a lot of these players and teams.

Congratulations on putting together a great side. Unfortunate to have come across Tuppet’s juggernaut.

I loved this draft because we had to actually research. I saw some footage from Nottingham Forests European glory and the great Leeds team. I

So many underrated players in this era. I will definitely dig into this pool for future drafts

@Tuppet congratulations on a well deserved victory. Astute reinforcements and as always a great team

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Fair comments.

I need to stop posting here - every time I leak some more votes.

But anyway, congratulations @Tuppet - on-point drafting as usual and a raft of exceptional reinforcements. I'd banked on MJJ getting McGrath in the last reinforcement round, which would have ensured every team had a top-banana CB (Hansen, McGrath and Walker) to pluck should I be lucky enough to get to the final. But hey-ho, can't really argue with securing the likes of Dalglish, Hughes, Bremner and Pearce - everyone in my XI was final worthy. Enjoyed the draft a lot. Watched the 1970 European Cup Semi-Final and the 1972 FA Cup Final over the last couple of days. Standard was really impressive and the pace a lot higher than often perceived - all the teams were very fit. It's been good to look back at a lot of these players and teams.

Agreed. Sometimes forget that for a lot of the 70s and 80s, British sides were very very successful in Europe due to the quality of players we had. Didn't transfer to Intl success but may be down to the fact we have a few teams ... a combined UK/GB team would have had a lot more success in Euro Champs/WC and maybe more accurately reflect the quality of this island as a whole.

I get the impression worldwide drafts have more appeal but maybe there's a way to integrate UK players a bit more so they don't get lost (need the draft criteria to cover all bases).

 

[Tuppet]

Thanks guys, great team as usual @Gio and thanks for hosting the draft @Indnyc and for the draft idea @BeforeKeanetherewasRobson

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Well done @Tuppet

Loved the players/chat.... two excellent teams in the final.

Huge thanks to @Indnyc for superb organising/running. The next draft master has a lot to live up to.