PR Draft R1: Elegancia vs Maluco

Who will win the match?

  • Total voters
    11
  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

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---------------------------------------------TEAM ELEGANCIA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ TEAM MALUCO -------------------------------------------------


TEAM ELEGANCIA

Formation: 4-2-3-1 direct and attacking

Defensive details: Zonal Marking and Normal defensive line

My team will play attacking and direct 4-2-3-1 with the advantage of having two high-speed and direct wingers in Son and Jairzinho on both flanks. Both are known for their scoring prowess, directness, one on one situations and eyes for goals, which are very necessary in this formation especially having Di Stefano here. My defensive will defend as a compact unit, two central defenders like Thuram and Ferdinand will mark the opposition's striker (Romario), both of them have all tools for dealing with Brazilian beast: fast, great athleticism, great in 1 on 1 situations and very intelligent. Two balance full-backs Jusufi and Brehme were definitely rated as one of the best fullbacks in the world during their era respectively( 1960s and 1980s), Brehme will join and support Son Heung Min in attacking phase and he will provide great crosses to Van Basten, long-shots and probably set pieces too. He's one of the most complete fullbacks of all time. Another one, Jusufi will provide more of a defensive solidarity.

On midfield, I think this is the area where I think it's one of my strengths. My double pivot are Souness and Netto. Both of them were known for their leadership, ball distribution from the back, very tenacious, great passing skills(both short and long) and versatility. Di Stefano is one the most complete footballers ever, this guy could do anything he wanted on the pitch, he will contibute both attacking phase and defensive phase in my team due to his completeness like remarkable stamina, tactical versatility and his organizing skills( both defensive and offensive).

Striker , Marco Van Basten is one of the best strikers of all time. He's a complete package of striker. He was excellent in the air both heading and acrobatic finishing, two foots player and could shot from impossible angels.

Key points

- Everyone in my team have immense work-rate and will contribute in defensive phase
-No one has a weakness in playing with the ball ( including Chilavert)
-My midfielders are very strong both as a unit and individual.
-Having complete striker and two amazing wingers/ wing forwards( Jairzinho and Son)



TEAM MALUCO

Formation: 4-3-3

Tactics:

Attacking phase:

  • Although we have many tremendous passers in the team, the idea would be to take advantage of breaks and play on the counter.
  • With the ball, we will be playing more directly, using the teams superb athleticism to our advantage. All of the back line, Coluna, Robson, Lato could have played multiple sports and we will use that extreme athleticism to our advantage
  • Lizarazu and Suurbier were chosen early to make sure we had two supreme athletes who were equally as adept in the attacking phase as the defensive one. Both have elite pace and stamina, and more importantly, they are both quality passers and technical footballlers who will relish getting involved in the build-up.
  • Blanchflower was defensively minded and had vision and guile. He will spot the runners moving forward and get any counters moving. Coluna was equally as adept with his passing range, but we will be using his athleticism and engine to make sure that left side of midfield is covered in the absence of a traditional winger. Lizarazu/Coluna/Robson provides the perfect platform for our slightly asymmetrical attack to function.
  • Robson was a Captain Marvel, a box to box midfielder of the highest order who loved to get into the box and grab important goals. This system allows him to have his special influence in the game and get into the box to cause problems as defenders try to track the movement of our attackers.
  • The center backs are as complete as they come, again, superb athletes, but also world class readers of the game, and themselves capable of starting counters from the back.
  • Lato has frightening pace, and as a former top scorer at a World Cup, is a real goal threat. He was known for being extremely hard working and an excellent team player and is perfect for this role or providing pace, width and stamina on the right.
  • The team is, of course, built to allow Puskas free reign to be at his devastating best. About 1500 goals and over 500 assists between him and Romario. Puskas acceleration, unpredictable running and ability to pick a pass, as well as the variation he has with his finishing will provide a real problem for any back line. He has the ability to cut outside on his left or drive towards goal, and can even pick up the ball deeper and create as a number ten. Lots of pace and movement happening all around him.
  • Romario is one of the very best strikers the game has ever seen and his partnership with Puskas is frightening. He has the ability to pick up the ball and run at defenders, but it’s his variation in finishes and the timing of his runs that we will be counting on here. He could score any type of goal and had great success timing his runs on the shoulder of defenders. There is no one better at 1 vs 1 situations than Romario.
  • There are goals all over the team. Aside from Puskas and Romario, Lato has a fantastic goal record, Robson loved a goal from midfield and Coluna had real power with his shooting. He scored in both of Benfica’s European Cup wins.
Defensive phase:

  • A zonal system with incredible athleticism and readers of the game. Two natural anchors in midfield that will work hard when we don’t have the ball.
  • Hellstrom one of the best of his day and a physical presence in goal.
  • Baresi and Hansen were two of the best readers of the game of all time from CB. Baresi had phenomenal pace and a physical edge to his game.
  • Two fullbacks who contribute defensively. There is no sacrifice to that side of their game. Tremendous recovery pace on both sides.
  • Blanchflower is more defensively minded, while Coluna saw the best phase of his career as an anchor. The work rate of Coluna and Robson will see both heavily involved in both phases of play.
  • Coluna’s athleticism and experience on the left hand side earlier on his career will make sure we don’t sacrifice ground on the left hand side of the field to allow Puskas more freedom.
  • Defensively, we can almost have two banks of four with Lato’s pace and workmanship on the right and Colunas ability to move more to the left hand side, allowing us the flexibility to be more compact without the ball.
 
Very similar set ups on this one. A fantastic side put together by @General_Elegancia. Good luck to you and your team!

I would just mention a few things.

- I think Romario/Van Basten carry a similar threat in terms of quality. Where I think the difference is is that I believe my center backs are a level above, even though General’s are a really nice pair. I feel like his are best of their generation, while my pair are both legends of the game with superior CVs.

- I feel like we have an ideal pair of full backs to deal with the pace and power of Son/Jairzinho. They were both excellent defenders first and foremost and both have tremendous pace. Again, both would make a top ten of all time list for their respective positions.

- Our midfield is as combatative, but I think that Coluna and Blanchflower offer world class passers in our team and better options to start counters from deep. Coluna and Souness would be a fantastic battle, but I’m going for my man because of his ability on the ball combined with how influential he can be in both halves.

- I think Son is out of his depth in an all-time draft, and while di Stefano is obviously better than a still world class Bryan Robson, Puskas is genuinely in the GOAT conversation and I feel, will be where the game is won and offers a threat several tiers above what Son would offer in this context.
 
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@General_Elegancia any particular reason to put Thuram as LCB? Especially with Netto there he looks a lot more natural as RCB.

@Maluco some great pairings there I especially like the Romario/Puskas combo and that midfield unit. Hansen / Baresi looks a bit off though, my concern is how van Basten will be handled there, although Baresi had a fantastic game in 90' against him, one of the best defensive displays I've seen.
 
Never been a fan of Di Stefano without orthodox wingers, even 1. Archetypical No. 10 who would excel with proper orthodox wide men, especially with Van Basten there too. The team doesn't really need more scorers with those 2 upfront. Other than that, the midfield and defense are close to perfection.

Maluco's team isn't easy on the eye at first glance, but it works really well IMO. Meaty role for Puskas without a proper No.10 around. And then 3 proper scorers to feast of all the creativity in midfield. I do think the team would struggle containing Di Stefano without a proper DM though even with Robson's complete game on offer. Against most midfield and, it should be fine, but against goat No. 10s, it would struggle IMO.
 
Enigma_87 said:
@General_Elegancia any particular reason to put Thuram as LCB? Especially with Netto there he looks a lot more natural as RCB.

@Maluco some great pairings there I especially like the Romario/Puskas combo and that midfield unit. Hansen / Baresi looks a bit off though, my concern is how van Basten will be handled there, although Baresi had a fantastic game in 90' against him, one of the best defensive displays I've seen.
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Yeah, I was going to post that game just to offer food for thought. Baresi was a physical beast with great speed and agility, as well as an excellent reader of the game. I think he doesn’t better at dealing with MvB than Thuram up against Romario on his wrong side.

Hansen was underrated as an athlete, but I think the pair would make a fantastic set of modern CBs. Both athletic and agile, both superb readers of the game, and crucially, they could both play.

I don’t think Hansen gets enough credit on here (obviously because of who he played for), but he was absolutely world class and his CV speaks for itself. His defensive partner was also a more graceful and elegant CB in Lawrensen. I don’t think there would be any issue with someone of Baresi’s class.
 
GodShaveTheQueen said:
Never been a fan of Di Stefano without orthodox wingers, even 1. Archetypical No. 10 who would excel with proper orthodox wide men, especially with Van Basten there too. The team doesn't really need more scorers with those 2 upfront. Other than that, the midfield and defense are close to perfection.

Maluco's team isn't easy on the eye at first glance, but it works really well IMO. Meaty role for Puskas without a proper No.10 around. And then 3 proper scorers to feast of all the creativity in midfield. I do think the team would struggle containing Di Stefano without a proper DM though even with Robson's complete game on offer. Against most midfield and, it should be fine, but against goat No. 10s, it would struggle IMO.
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I think Coluna would have been better in Robson's position here. He was a sort of Yaya style player who would be better that big further forward. I agree on the wingers although I think you could have ADS with just one more orthodox winger but with two, that's stretching it.
 
GodShaveTheQueen said:
Never been a fan of Di Stefano without orthodox wingers, even 1. Archetypical No. 10 who would excel with proper orthodox wide men, especially with Van Basten there too. The team doesn't really need more scorers with those 2 upfront. Other than that, the midfield and defense are close to perfection.

Maluco's team isn't easy on the eye at first glance, but it works really well IMO. Meaty role for Puskas without a proper No.10 around. And then 3 proper scorers to feast of all the creativity in midfield. I do think the team would struggle containing Di Stefano without a proper DM though even with Robson's complete game on offer. Against most midfield and, it should be fine, but against goat No. 10s, it would struggle IMO.
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Thanks for the feedback mate. I would argue against this point though. I think Coluna and Robson both have formidable engines and Coluna dominated Europe for 2-3 seasons as an anchor. He was incredibly strong and athletic.

I also think Blanchflower has a natural defensive inclination. He will be taking up those areas and was known for his intelligence. I think we can contain di Stefano (as much as one can with his presence) and isolate him and our break should cause real issues.
 
Maluco said:
Very similar set ups on this one. A fantastic side put together by @General_Elegancia


- I think Son is out of his depth in an all-time draft, and while di Stefano is obviously better than a still world class Bryan Robson, Puskas is genuinely in the GOAT conversation and I feel, will be where the game is won and offers a threat several tiers above what Son would offer in this context.
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Cheers mate, you have a great team too.

I agree that Son maybe not the flashiest names in the redcafe draft games for sure especially considering it's an all time draft-games but I rate him very highly. He's for me a world class players for sure, he scored 23 goals without any single penalty which could be considered as excellent performances in the current best league in the world. Son is suited in my tactics due to his directness, two-footed ability, movement off the ball and his directness would suit him well with the protagonist of my team "Alfredo Di Stefano".

He and Brehme will combo each other really well and could make a lot of trouble to Suurbier. Suurbier was an attacking full-back, who was excellent in Ajax's tactics and formations. Although he was a great player, I think Ajax's system also helped him to cover his weakness a lot especially in defensive phase. Compare to other attacking fullbacks who were great excelled in defensive phase like Cabrini, Brehme( in my team), Carlos Alberto, Amoros or Facchetti, I wouldn't consider him to belong in that group.

Son Heung Min's individual awards


Individual


https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ranked-the-10-best-left-wingers-in-the-world
https://sportsbrief.com/facts/top-listicles/12120-who-left-wingers-world-2022/

Son was ranked in number 3 and 4 respectively in those two websites.
 
Physiocrat said:
I think Coluna would have been better in Robson's position here. He was a sort of Yaya style player who would be better that big further forward. I agree on the wingers although I think you could have ADS with just one more orthodox winger but with two, that's stretching it.
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I did consider that, but I wanted to have his physical presence on the left to allow Puskas a platform. He started his career as a left winger and would always play on the left hand side of a midfield pairing, so I don’t think his influence would be diminished here.

He was at his very best as an anchor who could win and carry the ball and influence the whole game, and I think he can do that here.
 
General_Elegancia said:
Cheers mate, you have a great team too.

I agree that Son maybe not the flashiest names in the redcafe draft games for sure especially considering it's an all time draft-games but I rate him very highly. He's for me a world class players for sure, he scored 23 goals without any single penalty which could be considered as excellent performances in the current best league in the world. Son is suited in my tactics due to his directness, two-footed ability, movement off the ball and his directness would suit him well with the protagonist of my team "Alfredo Di Stefano".

He and Brehme will combo each other really well and could make a lot of trouble to Suurbier. Suurbier was an attacking full-back, who was excellent in Ajax's tactics and formations. Although he was a great player, I think Ajax's system also helped him to cover his weakness a lot especially in defensive phase. Compare to other attacking fullbacks who were great excelled in defensive phase like Cabrini, Brehme( in my team), Carlos Alberto, Amoros or Facchetti, I wouldn't consider him to belong in that group.

Son Heung Min's individual awards


Individual


https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ranked-the-10-best-left-wingers-in-the-world
https://sportsbrief.com/facts/top-listicles/12120-who-left-wingers-world-2022/

Son was ranked in number 3 and 4 respectively in those two websites.
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Thanks mate!

I would most definitely Suurbier in the top 10 right backs of all time, and many websites of prestige would too!

He was one of the only people that Cryuff felt he could really talk to about the game, and the player himself would talk about how he became known as an attacking FB because he joined attacks, only after fulfilling his defensive obligations.

I feel like he is being done a disservice here and has a much higher standing and reputation in the game, than Son would here!

I do love Brehme though too:D
 
Maluco said:
I did consider that, but I wanted to have his physical presence on the left to allow Puskas a platform. He started his career as a left winger and would always play on the left hand side of a midfield pairing, so I don’t think his influence would be diminished here.

He was at his very best as an anchor who could win and carry the ball and influence the whole game, and I think he can do that here.
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Actually you're right, Coluna was an inside-left in that Benfica side. I think it might just have made more sense with Blanchflower as a single pivot with Coluna and Robson flanking him. I think it would be a better way of showing what you're intending.
 
Physiocrat said:
Actually you're right, Coluna was an inside-left in that Benfica side. I think it might just have made more sense with Blanchflower as a single pivot with Coluna and Robson flanking him. I think it would be a better way of showing what you're intending.
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You’re possibly right, but as Coluna was a natural on the left hand side, and Blanchflower was a right half, and Robson was a goalscorer at heart, I thought that I would accomplish two things.

a) Keeping everyone in a position where they were at their very best
b) Providing more defensive stability for the full backs to get involved and Puskas to roam.

I think there is something to be said for giving players roles that play to their strengths. It’s maybe a little less orthodox, as you say, but that can be a good thing, especially when players are comfortable in their roles.
 
GodShaveTheQueen said:
Never been a fan of Di Stefano without orthodox wingers, even 1. Archetypical No. 10 who would excel with proper orthodox wide men, especially with Van Basten there too. The team doesn't really need more scorers with those 2 upfront. Other than that, the midfield and defense are close to perfection.

Maluco's team isn't easy on the eye at first glance, but it works really well IMO. Meaty role for Puskas without a proper No.10 around. And then 3 proper scorers to feast of all the creativity in midfield. I do think the team would struggle containing Di Stefano without a proper DM though even with Robson's complete game on offer. Against most midfield and, it should be fine, but against goat No. 10s, it would struggle IMO.
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That's very important and interesting point

I think although Robson, Coluna or Blanchflower excelled in defensive game(especially Robson), I still think opponent's team need a bit of defensive presence in midfield area to contain one of the most complete footballers ever. Robson and Coluna natural games were more of offensive central midfielder and Blanchflower a former right-half who was also great in defensive phase but his biggest strengths were known as his accurate passing and ability to control the game. I still think it's great unit but I would replace anyone of them with more of a defensive minded midfield.


This video shows his completeness as footballer.
 
Struggling to vote in this one.. very hard to separate! Really like both teams.

Brehme looks great there for GE I think Van Basten would relish his delivery, though I’d probably prefer a more traditional wide man in place of one of the inside forwards.
 
General_Elegancia said:
That's very important and interesting point

I think although Robson, Coluna or Blanchflower excelled in defensive game(especially Robson), I still think opponent's team need a bit of defensive presence in midfield area to contain one of the most complete footballers ever. Robson and Coluna natural games were more of offensive central midfielder and Blanchflower a former right-half who was also great in defensive phase but his biggest strengths were known as his accurate passing and ability to control the game. I still think it's great unit but I would replace anyone of them with more of a defensive minded midfield.


This video shows his completeness as footballer.
Click to expand...


I think all three could tackle and were very aware positionally. I wouldn’t say Coluna was at his best attacking. I think his anchor role was specifically effective because he has such a physical presence and could win the ball and start attacks from deep.

Im hoping that the defensive stability that him and Blanchflower offer, coupled with their passing ability, will catch you out in the counter :p
 
Maluco said:
You’re possibly right, but as Coluna was a natural on the left hand side, and Blanchflower was a right half, and Robson was a goalscorer at heart, I thought that I would accomplish two things.

a) Keeping everyone in a position where they were at their very best
b) Providing more defensive stability for the full backs to get involved and Puskas to roam.

I think there is something to be said for giving players roles that play to their strengths. It’s maybe a little less orthodox, as you say, but that can be a good thing, especially when players are comfortable in their roles.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. Convinced.
 
Theon said:
Struggling to vote in this one.. very hard to separate! Really like both teams.

Brehme looks great there for GE I think Van Basten would relish his delivery, though I’d probably prefer a more traditional wide man in place of one of the inside forwards.
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Physiocrat said:
I think Coluna would have been better in Robson's position here. He was a sort of Yaya style player who would be better that big further forward. I agree on the wingers although I think you could have ADS with just one more orthodox winger but with two, that's stretching it.
Click to expand...
GodShaveTheQueen said:
Never been a fan of Di Stefano without orthodox wingers, even 1. Archetypical No. 10 who would excel with proper orthodox wide men, especially with Van Basten there too. The team doesn't really need more scorers with those 2 upfront. Other than that, the midfield and defense are close to perfection.
Click to expand...

Yep, I also think the same as others. Di Stefano suited more to orthodox wingers ( like Gento) but on the other hand, I think Jairzinho and Son( with Brehme and Jusufi) also provided enough width especially Jairzinho who played in 4-2-4 Brazil's system in Brazil 1970, Jairzinho 1970 provided 78 dribbles which was 3rd in most dribbles completed in the FIFA World Cup since 1966 and a lot of them came from the wing-area. Another reason, I know that a lot of center-backs in this drafts were in all-time contexts( yeah in this game Baresi and Hansen) and Van Basten wouldn't get easy job to score for sure. So, having another sources of goalscorers would make my life easier.

 
Excellence is a timeless aspiration for mankind. Excellence is difficult to judge. Declaring a player or team as superlative is even more contentious. Nevertheless, there is inherent value in establishing the superlative.
Most of those who watched Marco van Basten, would assert that he’s the best striker of all time. While van Basten’s legend in history is secure, can he be called the greatest #9 of all-time?


The height and the cruel blow
Making his Ajax Amsterdam debut with just the one appearance in the 1981–82 season, van Basten played a further 5 seasons for them before moving to AC Milan for £1m in 1987; a fee now considered an incredible bargain, especially when Ruud Gullit was also acquired in the same season by Berlusconi for a £6m world-record fee. His first season in Milan was blighted by an ankle injury, leading to a paltry 11 appearances. The arrival of Rijkaard in 1988 meant that the trio from the European champion Dutch side, were installed at AC Milan, ready to embark on their historic era, starting with winning the European Cup. In the following season (89/90), van Basten would be capocannoniere. He repeated that feat in 91/92 season, while also collect his record-equalling third Ballon d’Or. It would be another 20 years (2012) before Messi’s Ballon d’Or four-peat would break this record.
The 92/93 season saw the beginning of the end. Injury issues flared up again, and the 0–1 loss to Marseille in the inaugural final of the newly formed Champions League would end up being van Basten’s final outing in the Rossoneri colours. Aged just 28, he had played his final club game. To add salt to injury, in more ways than one, the venue for this defeat would be the same Munich Olympiastadion where he had scored his immortal volley for the Netherlands in 1988. van Basten remained on Milan’s roster for two more seasons but did not feature at all due to his ankle surgery. In August 1995, he announced his (forced) retirement, prematurely ending his glittering career.

Criteria
While van Basten is undoubtedly an all-time great, can he be considered the best striker of all-time? To decide, we need to define a selection group, and some decision criteria.
Selection Pool
For the selection pool, I’ll focus on three strikers widely considered to be the best: Gerd Muller, van Basten and Ronaldo Nazario.
To accurately compare van Basten, we have to look at career strikers. Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Pele, Puskas etc., I class as forwards, even though they may have been deployed as strikers at various times. While I can include other strikers like Henry, Batistuta or Ibrahimovic, I feel that, with due respect, the calibre of the selection pool can cover for them.
Criteria
To provide a holistic comparison, I’ve devised 3 criteria:
  • Individual honours
  • Goals
  • Style
The first two are quantitative measures. Style is a qualitative assessment. Combining these three should give us a composite score. This composite metric will transpire automatically as we progress with the discussion. For this reason, I shall reveal it later.

“Marco van Basten remains for me the best striker of all time...I above all remember him for his elegance, his grace and his incredible quality” — Arrigo Sacchi
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Substance
Individual honours
The following table shows the ranked comparison of our selection pool. I’ve weighted Ballon d’Or as 3 points because it’s the premier individual award, is hard to get, and has been around for the prime of our selected players. Individual honours are 1 point each. I’ve also converted the esteemed World Soccer magazine’s 100 Players of the Century list into a 1- or 2-point score.

van Basten leads this ranking narrowly edging out Muller, with Ronaldo a distant third. On this basis, we can narrow down our subsequent comparison to just Gerd Muller and van Basten.
Goals
Gerd Muller’s profile is legendary. His records for club and country stood for an incredible 40–50 years before being broken by Messi and Robert Lewandowski. Muller scored 524 goals from 573 appearances for Bayern Munich in the Bundesliga, adding a staggering 68 goals from just 62 appearances for West Germany. His strike rate of 0.91 and 1.10 respectively can for all purposes be considered unmatchable. Muller played 14 seasons for Bayern and 3 seasons for Fort Lauderdale Strikers before retiring.
Van Basten scored 280 goals from 379 club appearances (S/R 0.74). His record for the Netherlands is rather average: 24 goals from 58 appearances.
Van Basten is perhaps the biggest what-if story of football. There may be some similarity with Ronaldo. Injuries wreaked havoc with both players — in their prime. While Ronaldo made a comeback from his injury plagued years at Inter, van Basten’s career ended abruptly. When he was subbed off the 1993 Champions League final after a tackle, no one would’ve imagined that he’d played his final football game. Tackles contributed to a lot of van Basten’s ankle injuries. When the “tackle from behind” was finally outlawed, many feel it was at inspired by van Basten’s plight.
Despite ongoing issues with his ankle from his final years at Ajax, van Basten was a prolific marksman. His best strike rate in AC Milan colours (0.8 and 0.9) was in his final two seasons. Had his injury subsided or had been cured, he could’ve had at least 3 seasons at AC Milan, taking him to the 1995/96 season. Extrapolating from that, and in light of the strong AC Milan team of that time, he would’ve had every chance to uplift his strike-rate to at least 0.8.
For comparison, the strike rate of some current and former greats, for senior club appearances in top European leagues, is shown below. It shows how outrageous Muller’s rate was, and how despite being his career ending prematurely, and despite playing through injury for the latter half of his career, van Basten’s strike rate is quite respectable, by all standards.

Strike Rate

“He could score goals in every possible way; spectacular goals, tap-ins, individual goals. He was the complete footballer” — Demetrio Albertini
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Style
Style is difficult to judge. In football though, we are helped by an unlikely ally — monikers. For most part, player nicknames have zeroed in on their most salient quality. With his hurricane like power matched with lightning speed and control, no wonder Ronaldo was called O Fenomeno. Maradona’s mazy run vs England in 1986 made him El Pibe d Oro (cosmic-kite). The (relatively) pint-sized wizard Messi is La Pulga Atomica (the atomic flea). For Pele, the greatest player of all time, it’s simply O Rei (The King).
Gerd Muller was called Der Bomber. The way he rained goals on the opposition would not be too far from a B-52 Stratofortress analogy. With a low centre of gravity and powerful thighs, Muller used his natural balance, explosive pace over short-distances, and uncanny eye for goal, to become a lethal striker. Despite being an extremely effective all-round striker, he was however not considered very aesthetic.
Enter van Basten, whose aesthetic appeal earned him the nickname of the Swan of Utrecht. At 6ft 2" van Basten’s combination of physique, technical ability and finesse made him the complete striker. Blessed with pace, intelligence, power and accuracy, van Basten scored the complete array of goals ranging from opportunistic strikes to penalties, free-kicks, bicycle-kicks to volleys. His childhood training as a gymnast no doubt contributed to his graceful movement, poise, acrobatic ability and elegance.
Style and substance — van Basten had both. Substance won him numerous individual honours. His style won him immortality. There was nothing he could not do. His incredible sliding goal against the hosts West Germany, two minutes from time, saw the Dutch reach their first ever European Championship final in 1988. Here the stage was set for van Basten’s masterpiece. Playing against USSR in the final, van Basten provided the appetizer — an assist for captain Gullit to open the scoring. Then, in the 54th minute, van Basten scored the jaw-dropping volley, to seal victory in stupendous fashion.
Van Basten’s spectacular volley from an impossible angle, remains an enduring example and an asymptotic benchmark of elegance.
The story of the goal only accentuates our appreciation. Arnold Muhren, prioritizing time over precision, as the Dutch broke forward, put a floated a cross to van Basten which by his own admission was a “little too far”. As many commentators have summarized, van Basten could have taken a conventional option of either controlling it or letting it go (for a goal-kick). To the utter surprise, and relief of everyone, particularly his team-mates, van Basten made the risky decision to attempt a volley — from the impossible angle. When the ball thundered past a reeling Dasayev into the goal, Rinus Michels’ reaction, of covering his face with his hands, captured the stupor that van Basten’s volley had induced in every one watching — on or off the pitch. While people appreciate the goal, what goes under the radar is the confidence to take this shot followed up by the practiced technique to execute it. The volley perhaps revealed an inner gymnast, who attempts ever more risky and challenging routines with decisive confidence and appropriate technique.
While many strikers and forwards have left enduring impressions of their style, the Swan of Utrecht remains untouchable. Style, substance, confidence, precision — van Basten had everything. While is skill was impeccable, it’s his graceful style that endures in the memory of fans.

“Marco was the greatest centre forward that I’ve ever trained, he was a swan. Marco remains the greatest in his role. It was such a shame that he was forced to retire at 28. It was a mortal misfortune for him, for football, and for Milan.” — Fabio Capello
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Marco van Basten — the cut above
In terms of criteria devised, Muller comes out top on goals but is edged out by van Basten in terms of individual honours. In terms of style and aesthetics, and especially when we talk about strikers, van Basten really has no peer.
But how much should style count in the final assessment? Statistics have a time value. Eventually, they get overtaken or they become obsolete. Muller is the best example of that. His records took up to 5 decades to be surpassed — but they were. Ironically, while Muller’s prolific scoring is central to his legend, he is remembered just as much for being the supreme goalmouth poacher. van Basten is similar but in a different way. While his goal-scoring records might be lower, his style is immortal, and perhaps also unsurpassable.
Style is important. Despite being qualitative, it’s arguably, it carries the same weight as the most important quantitative measure. With this in mind, our final metric for evaluation is weighted as follows:
  • Individual honours — 40%
  • Goals — 20%
  • Style — 40%
Goals are weighted the least for two reasons: they can be subject to many variables, and because they form the basis for individual honours also.
With van Basten having the edge in the two criteria which account for 80% of our weighted metric (individual honours and style), we know that he will come out top overall also.

“Right foot. Left foot. Heading, so strong, fast. He could score, he could pass the ball. He was the best. The way he played was timeless. He had to quit when he was 28. Surgery. Stupid surgery to the ankle. It was such a pity.” — Paolo Maldini
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For those who saw van Basten play, there is no doubt about his stature. That anecdotal assertion finds support through this structured analysis. Despite his struggles with injury, and despite being forced to effectively retire at the age (28) when strikers like Lukaku are being procured for a club record fees (£97.5m), van Basten’s accolades, goal-scoring and style still compares very favourably to other all-time great strikers.
There is every reason to believe that Marco van Basten was, on the whole, the greatest striker, the greatest classic #9, of all-time.
Having made that point, it’s probably not a comparison that purists, or indeed van Basten’s fans, will dwell on for too long. Paradoxically, such a comparison may also detract from van Basten’s true legacy, which is more about giving us a glimpse of the upper echelons of excellence, grace and completeness rather than being merely about output or ranking.
The image of the swan comes to mind. A swan belongs to broader family of ducks and geese. As waterfowl, all are equally adept for their surroundings. There is however something distinctively beautiful about the swan. Despite being one of the largest birds to fly, it combines speed and agility with silky elegance; being acclaimed most often for the latter. Style and substance reinforce each other. In the Swan of Utrecht’s case, both intertwined seamlessly to create a spectacular specimen of a striker par excellence.

Great article about Marco Van Basten

https://medium.com/totalfootball/marco-van-basten-the-greatest-striker-of-all-time-e7a607b9c981
 
What did players say about him?

Milan's teammates and coaches

“I’ve always said van Basten was the best player I ever played with because he only had a few years in which to show his talent. He won three Balon D’Or’s, yet was only 28 when he retired. Most players have a little more time than that.” — Demetrio Albertini

“He was elegance personified. He could score in millions of different ways and always with an unbelievable touch of class. He had no weak points – he was completely two-footed, and he was strong with his head, but he didn’t just score goals, he also created many, many assists. It is a shame that he stopped playing at such a young age. Had he continued into his thirties, I think he could have become a great ‘number 10’.” — Marcel Desailly

“I used to play with Marco van Basten at Milan. I asked him how we should give the ball to him. He said, “Just pass it, and then start running to congratulate me”. He always thought he would score, and he was usually right.” — Carlo Ancelotti

“Oh yes. Right foot. Left foot. Heading, so strong, fast. He could score, he could pass the ball. He was the best. The way he played was timeless. He had to quit when he was 28. Surgery. Stupid surgery to the ankle. It was such a pity.” — Paolo Maldini

“The person who really pushed us (AC Milan) forward was van Basten, because of his ability in front of goal and the goals he scored. A really great player.” — Franco Baresi

“I think he was excellent. I just did everything I could to give him the ball as much as possible.” — Ruud Gullit

“Marco was the greatest centre forward that I’ve ever trained, he was a swan. [ . . . ] Marco remains the greatest in his role. It was such a shame that he was forced to retire at 28. It was a mortal misfortune for him, for football, and for Milan.” — Fabio Capello

From other footballers

“Injuries cut him down when he was in the best form of his career, spearheading Fabio Capello’s new and rejuvenated Milan side. Yet by then, Marco had already done enough to perhaps be regarded as the greatest number nine there’s ever been. People always talk about his strike against the Soviet Union in the 1988 European Championship Final, and yes, it was a great goal, but Marco scored even better goals, for both Ajax and AC Milan.” — Ronald Koeman

“It’s such a shame Van Basten’s career was curtailed by injury. What did he have that I didn’t? Touch, skill – and he scored goals as well. He was just such a wonderful, gifted, well-balanced footballer.” — Gary Lineker

“Probably the best striker I’ve ever seen. He wasn’t just a goalscorer: he could hold the ball up superbly and had great skill, which he showed in his goals. He’ll always be remembered for hooking a stunning volley into the top corner in the Euro 88 final but at that time, at Milan, he was the main man in the best team in the world.” — Jamie Carragher

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This is the match that was referred to earlier in the thread. Baresi martials Van Basten extremely well, and goes on to have a massive influence on the game. Evidence is his capacity to mark him out of a football match.

I don’t think Ferdinand/Thuram would have the same success with Puskas/Romário, and I think that is where the game could be won.

Notice the way he wins the ball and starts the counter and assists the goal at around 4.35. A possible link with Romario in this game?
 
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This one is a short video (complete with the customary irritating soundtrack) which shows the variation of goals that Romario could score. He is every bit the danger MvB is in this tie, and is up against weaker opposition.

A look at this top 50 complication shows that he is a danger from absolutely anywhere, and his quick feet and burst of acceleration could easily catch Thuram out on his wrong side.
 
Maluco said:



This is the match that was referred to earlier in the thread. Baresi martials Van Basten extremely well, and goes on to have a massive influence on the game. Evidence is his capacity to mark him out of a football match.

I don’t think Ferdinand/Thuram would have the same success with Puskas/Romário, and I think that is where the game could be won.
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Wowww.....that's a reason why Milan is the best team in the world during that era, we had the best striker in the world and the best defender in the world. Tbh, I missed that Milan.

On the other side, Thuram also kept Romario being quiet in 2 matches( against Brazil and Cruyff's Barcelona) and yeah I know that facing Baresi isn't uncomplicated job and that is one of the reason I must pick 2 wing-forwards. I think Van Basten share some of Benzema's traits like great-hold up skill, passing skill and creating some chances for wing-forwards like Jairzinho or Son in this game. Van Basten alone could create a lot of attentions from Baresi and Hansen and that means it leaves some spaces for the unstoppable Don Di Stefano( not so good man), who will go to your penalty box for sure( that's his game).

Van Basten was more than a one dimensional scorer, your Romario and Gerd Muller were also not one dimensional scorers too.

https://www.sportsmax.tv/football/i...id-talisman-even-if-mbappe-and-haaland-arrive

"I think comparing him to Van Basten is actually a good comparison. I think they would both appreciate that comparison, Marco and Karim."
Carlo Anchelotti
 
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General_Elegancia said:
Wowww.....that's a reason why Milan is the best team in the world during that era, we had the best striker in the world and the best defender in the world. Tbh, I missed that Milan.

On the other side, Thuram also kept Romario being quiet in 2 matches( against Brazil and Cruyff's Barcelona) and yeah I know that facing Baresi isn't uncomplicated job and that is one of the reason I must pick 2 wing-forwards. I think Van Basten share some of Benzema's traits like great-hold up skill, passing skill and creating some chances for wing-forwards like Jairzinho or Son in this game. Van Basten alone could create a lot of attentions from Baresi and Hansen and that means it leaves some spaces for the unstoppable Don Di Stefano( not so good man), who will go to your penalty box for sure( that's his game).

Van Basten was more than a one dimensional scorer, your Romario and Gerd Muller were also not one dimensional scorers too.

https://www.sportsmax.tv/football/i...id-talisman-even-if-mbappe-and-haaland-arrive

"I think comparing him to Van Basten is actually a good comparison. I think they would both appreciate that comparison, Marco and Karim."
Carlo Anchelotti
Click to expand...

Agreed, surely the best club side, in terms of quality, that the world has ever seen.

It has been a pleasure @General_Elegancia, thanks a lot!
 
I might be losing this, but I think my midfield is a nice workable system with great players.

I think both my attack and defence are superior to the opposition.
 
I feel like I have been hit here because I voted in other games and those managers immediately came across and voted against me.

I may well have lost anyway, but it makes me wonder whether I should even bother voting in other games at all.

A bit annoying after putting in so much effort, but those are the breaks.

Good game @General_Elegancia , you were a gent and very welcoming. All the best for the best round!
 
Maluco said:
I feel like I have been hit here because I voted in other games and those managers immediately came across and voted against me.

I may well have lost anyway, but it makes me wonder whether I should even bother voting in other games at all.

A bit annoying after putting in so much effort, but those are the breaks.

Good game @General_Elegancia , you were a gent and very welcoming. All the best for the best round!
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tbf you are facing a great team, i didnt vote as it was too close for my liking but can understand if majority went for general
 
Šjor Bepo said:
tbf you are facing a great team, i didnt vote as it was too close for my liking but can understand if majority went for general
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I got 2-3 votes against me directly after voting on other games. It seems like a broken system to me for the matches.

No qualms about General winning, it’s a great team, but it’s silly to lose it like that in my opinion.

Maybe a 5 man panel that are not playing would be better for the games.
 
Maluco said:
I got 2-3 votes against me directly after voting on other games. It seems like a broken system to me for the matches.

No qualms about General winning, it’s a great team, but it’s silly to lose it like that in my opinion.

Maybe a 5 man panel that are not playing would be better for the games.
Click to expand...

sad if true but we saw a lot of that here.
enjoy the drafting/building process, rest is meh. Would be interesting to see a panel idea in action, we should test this as there is plenty of knowledge that doesnt play(invi, sync, demy etc.)
 
Šjor Bepo said:
sad if true but we saw a lot of that here.
enjoy the drafting/building process, rest is meh. Would be interesting to see a panel idea in action, we should test this as there is plenty of knowledge that doesnt play(invi, sync, demy etc.)
Click to expand...

I think with low voting numbers anyway, it would make more sense. If I played again, I wouldn’t vote in other games after this, and I am sure a lot of others are hesitant to do so because of it.

As you say, the draft is the fun part, so some general discussion and a panel vote makes more sense to me.

No sour grapes, I’m just being honest and giving some feedback about the experience.
 
Maluco said:
I got 2-3 votes against me directly after voting on other games. It seems like a broken system to me for the matches.

No qualms about General winning, it’s a great team, but it’s silly to lose it like that in my opinion.

Maybe a 5 man panel that are not playing would be better for the games.
Click to expand...

I had this as very close game but I am trying to vote in as many matches as I can.

I didn't originally buy your midfield but did after discussion with you. I just thought the a MVB, ADS, Souness and Netto core was excellent and complimentary. Also one thing that did swing it for me was that Chilavert was a much better keeper than Hellstrom.
 
@Maluco , no secret that the voting system is kind of broken and god knows I have whined more about it than anyone else but from experience, I would say the complaining always ended up making me seem a bitter loser irrespective of whether that was the case. But drafting can be an addictive pass time and the platform here is pretty enjoyable if you learn to live with the broken voting system.

I don't like the idea of a panel though, part of the fun is to try and convince as many people as possible in match threads about your ideas. I do think only those votes should be counted where the voter has at least made 1 comment to let his stance known, so you at least know why the majority voted against you rather than feeling unjust. (An idea for @Edgar Allan Pillow to consider) Also would help with the match threads being less drab which happens in half the games.
 
@Maluco Sorry for being reply very late, due to my daughter has tested positive for covid19. So, I don't have anytime to reply anything because of her operations.
 
Physiocrat said:
I had this as very close game but I am trying to vote in as many matches as I can.

I didn't originally buy your midfield but did after discussion with you. I just thought the a MVB, ADS, Souness and Netto core was excellent and complimentary. Also one thing that did swing it for me was that Chilavert was a much better keeper than Hellstrom.
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Yeah, no problem with that at all mate. He built a great team. No sour grapes, I just thought it was cheap the voting exchanges. It’s a lot of stuff to write and go back and forth to get the debate snuffed out like that.

Re: Hellstrom, probably underrated, but was potentially the best keeper in the world at one stage in the 70’s. I would definitely have him on par with the flashier name here.

GodShaveTheQueen said:
@Maluco , no secret that the voting system is kind of broken and god knows I have whined more about it than anyone else but from experience, I would say the complaining always ended up making me seem a bitter loser irrespective of whether that was the case. But drafting can be an addictive pass time and the platform here is pretty enjoyable if you learn to live with the broken voting system.

I don't like the idea of a panel though, part of the fun is to try and convince as many people as possible in match threads about your ideas. I do think only those votes should be counted where the voter has at least made 1 comment to let his stance known, so you at least know why the majority voted against you rather than feeling unjust. (An idea for @Edgar Allan Pillow to consider) Also would help with the match threads being less drab which happens in half the games.
Click to expand...

I think the result would be the same, just a short comment to excuse the same behavior. It’s a pity, as I enjoyed the drafting and the interaction.

As I say, absolutely no problem losing to a great team, but the cheap tat for tat way the voting was done would put me off playing again and putting in the effort. If I did play, I wouldn’t be voting in other games.
 
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Maluco said:
Yeah, no problem with that at all mate. He built a great team. No sour grapes, I just thought it was cheap the voting exchanges. It’s a lot of stuff to write and go back and forth to get the debate snuffed out like that.

Re: Hellstrom, probably underrated, but was potentially the best keeper in the world at one stage in the 70’s. I would definitely have him on par with the flashier name here.



I think the result would be the same, just a short comment to excuse the same behavior. It’s a pity, as I enjoyed the drafting and the interaction.

As I say, absolutely no problem losing to a great team, but the cheap tat for tat way the voting was done would put me off playing again and putting in the effort. If I did play, I wouldn’t be voting in other games.
Click to expand...
That’s shame, but hope you stick around and participate as it’s hard to come up with numbers even for the draft these days. Moving drafts to a sub forum killed the voting count which leads to more decisive votes here and there due to whatever reason.

To me it was a great effort on your side and still one of the better teams out of the drafting process.

There is no perfect voting system and it’s always part of the game as scrappy mentioned and everyone has felt underwhelming losing some games here and there.

personally I couldn’t separate the two sides - both had something I liked and on Hellstrom/Chilavert I also don’t believe there is much between them. Chilavert was prone to concentration lapses here and there and probably I don’t rate him that high myself as others.
 
Enigma_87 said:
That’s shame, but hope you stick around and participate as it’s hard to come up with numbers even for the draft these days. Moving drafts to a sub forum killed the voting count which leads to more decisive votes here and there due to whatever reason.

To me it was a great effort on your side and still one of the better teams out of the drafting process.

There is no perfect voting system and it’s always part of the game as scrappy mentioned and everyone has felt underwhelming losing some games here and there.

personally I couldn’t separate the two sides - both had something I liked and on Hellstrom/Chilavert I also don’t believe there is much between them. Chilavert was prone to concentration lapses here and there and probably I don’t rate him that high myself as others.
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Cheers for the kind words mate! As I said, absolutely no shame in losing to a great team, I just thought the tit for tat voting ruins the games.

I enjoyed the drafting process and the researching and it’s a really nice group of posters. It just seemed a bit cheap/pointless that a good game was killed off quickly because I decided to vote in other games.

I agree that it’s hard to think of another way around it, but I don’t think it works as a system.
 
@General_Elegancia , both Souness and Son played for Spurs, @Maluco , want to start a campaign for disqualifying him? I will support you as am pissed with GE for letting @Enigma_87 grab Garrincha of all people instead of upgrading Jairzinho with Garrincha himself :(
 
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