PR Draft Finals: Sjor vs Enigma

Who will win the match?


  • Total voters
    18
  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

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------------------------------------------------ TEAM SJOR ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TEAM ENIGMA ----------------------------------------


TEAM SJOR

Tactics:
Dont need tactics, his team is shit.

TEAM ENIGMA

Formation: 4-3-3
Style: Build around der Kaiser in the heart of defence and Messi in attack. Direct style with quick transitions and hitting the opposition with pace.

Defence:
As throughout the draft Franz Beckenbauer bosses the defence, that is tailored to get the best of him with a more defensive minded Bergomi on the right, able to tuck in and allow him to foray forward, a classic strong and rigid stopper in Shesternyov and this time a much more attacking minded full back on the side in Demyanenko who will man his flank, surge forward when we're on the ball to overlap Cristiano and help the attack. Having Garrincha on the right balances out that wing, as Mane Garrincha doesn't need much support to own that flank in the attacking phase.

Midfield:
Midfield is unchanged with Rijkaard at the base, who still protects the back four and shield the defence forming a formidable understanding with Beckenbauer. Rijkaard is well suited to hold fort having played with another libero in Baresi and is perfect for the holding role. In front of him - Graeme Souness - Liverpool's midfield general, who brings even more solid presence to the middle of the park with some real uncanny passing ability and soft touch when on the ball. His range of passing was outstanding, his shifting feet and dribbling ability allowed him to navigate challenges and his technique in cutting across the ball to fire home helped him to 55 goals from midfield. His game was an irresistible blend of subtlety and aggression, mixing the passing range, tenacity, awareness and a sheer force of will that elevated him as one of Pool's finest.

The man who will pull the strings in the middle of the park is Josef Masopust, the ballon D'or winner and referred as the "King of Slalom", but best put by none other than one of the very greats that played at that time:
“I was surprised how full it was as a player. Luis - was one of our best midfielders when disrupt enemy attacks, Suarez was a genius ball, and Paco was fantastic facing the opposing defenses. But Masopust could do all that at once: retrieve the ball, market, dribble and break into the area. He was a player outside series”. The definition corresponds to Ferenc Puskas. Man Talking, as you can imagine Josef Masopust, the best Czechoslovak player in history, chosen by the Czech Federation itself.

Additional quotes on him:

“No matter the opponent, always stood”, He had Pluskal. “He never lost the ball, walls made short passes or until a gap opened and then taking off ... leaving behind one, of, three opponents with breakneck speed, sorteándolos first on one side, then the other, as if they were flags on a training camp. It was just an incredible player”. Yes, rarely peers definitions are as successful as Masopust. It was one of his SUVs midfielders who could wash dishes or fiddling, but always with the best attitude, always with the best note.

Czechoslovak first player to win a Ballon d'Or 1962 (the other is Pavel Nevdev in 2003) and second best player in the World Cup in Chile after Garrincha, if history will reserve a place to Masopust it is the huge legacy left. He started playing in Teplice, but soon the Dukla Prague took him to their ranks, where he was 16 years of service playing over 386 matches in which scored 73 goals. He did before going to Belgium and become the first Czechoslovak national to leave outside its borders to go to another club sign.
They were hard times, where the Dukla was dominated by the army and where Masopust was the real engine of the team. passes, goals, arrival, work, virtually nothing was missing from this todocampista rise even reached four Czechoslovak league and third in the European Championship 1960.

Attack:
The new addition to the team is Lionel Messi who will play in his false 9 incarnation. He will break the line, create space for Ronaldo and be the creative spark in the attacking third. His playmaking ability will come to use with the latter Real version of Ronaldo who became a more all-out goalscorer who is the more of a consumer than the early creator version.





A fearsome trio who can burn the opposition with pace and trickery will attack the space between between the lines and their movement will be real tough to handle even by the greatest backline. Messi and Cristiano are aided by Garrincha who is also in his element - a dribbler in the Neymar mould who is on the same wavelength with Messi and each of the three forwards bring something different to the table - goalscoring and heading ability (Cristiano), playmaking, breaking the lines and movement (Messi) and a pure dribbler and crosser who can create numerical advantage in Garrincha.
 
I think older CR and peak Messi might work out alright together. Not sure how Garrincha fits though since he's kind of an on-the-ball player and you want an off ball player there.
 
Garrincha with Messi makes no sense whatsoever. Not even going to add IMO there.

Should have dropped Cristiano and gotten Best + Di Stefano. Makes so much more sense, especially against the opponent.
 
Easiest game of the draft, id bet my life on it id win 8 out of 10 times if the games were actually played.

Quality wise, teams are roughly the same maybe even enigma has the edge or tbh he has the edge with having 2 GOATs in the team - Kaiser and Messi. But still, at that level where every single one is almost an elite tier great the levels are very close so when you have one team that will defend with 11 players and other that will defend with 8, its an absolute no brainer which team would win. Personally i rate F9 Messi in the defensive sense but only as a helping wheel, "support" defender where he just needs to play a part in a well oiled machine - here where he would see other two stroll around, he will also do feck all.

Then we get to the most important part of my confidence, even bigger part then me playing with 3 players more. Great players, GOAT players are that because they were put in that position by managers, they all need the right setup to shine and if they were not given a platform to showcase the talents, they wouldnt have reached those heights.
To look at specifically enigmas team. Addition of Messi has absolutely zero sense apart from enigmas inner muppet getting a boner. That team was crying out for a Benzema/Rooney type. Someone that will sacrifice himself for the team, for Ronaldo for him to get to the level we saw him at the end of his spell at Madrid.

Ronaldo throughout of his career needed a striker that will sacrifice his own game for him, Benzema and Rooney didnt just went to sleep one day and turned into elite goalscorer once he left, they were always that but their task was different and when you do so many other things, specially in that situation where its not easy then when you get a chance, you often miss it. Here, he has Messi.

Speaking of the little alien, he like Ronaldo and really like everyone needed something. False 9 Messi needed selfless movement around, Pedro and Villa would do 10 runs in a short period of time and often would get only 1 or two balls behind as their task was to create space and time for Messi to do his thing. Now imagine Ronaldo doing that....selfless, Ronaldo, selfless, Ronaldo.....
Just because someone is a great goalscorer from wide areas it doesnt mean he is a good match for every false 9....feck, even the delivery Ronaldo prefers at that stage is completely different to the one Messi or a team around that Messi would and will provide.

Last and not least, donkey shagger Garrincha. Offensive wise id actually like him alongside older Cristiano, but what an atrocious match for Messi. He pretty much provides zero things what Messi needs and vice versa.
 
Hard to vote for a team without an OP, but Sjor has the better side for me. (I just assume tactics from last round.)

I think Garrincha, Kocsis and ~2016 Ronaldo would have been damn great. Could see that clicking very well. Adding Messi is a brave move (sounds strange, but you all know what I mean), but it didn't pay off imo. I'd expect isolated flashes of brilliance, but also moments of missing synergy. And Sjor's super-strong defense needs to be troubled on a more thorough basis.

Another (imo important) thing about this trio is defensive workrate. Won't be nothing, but way short of the required levels to disturb Sjor's possession. And Enigma would have needed that too, imo.

This team would certainly crush most opponents on sheer GOAT power. But not this one, which is full of individual brilliance itself, and a better unit.
 
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On team Sjor, he has reinforced well and assembled a ridiculous backline. I personally found Baresi's aggressive style even sexier in this team, but it of course makes total sense to pick as he has done.

But here it comes: I wouldn't have complained to see a Figueroa + Baresi duo (which I know Sjor doesn't dig). I see both more as complete modern CBs born early rather than libero specialists. On top, whatever I saw from Fig was certainly closer to Nesta than Beckenbauer. In a zonal/possession defense I can see them working together well.

I guess many would say this couldn't work in real football, on which I'd point to Baresi/Rijkaard as a CB duo for Milan. Pretty gung-ho at times, but damn excellent. And I have Rijkaard down as a much more attacking-minded CB than Figueroa.

Anyway, Fig & Nesta is stellar of course, and may still be better overall. Rest of the team I've praised enough before.
 
On team Sjor, he has reinforced well and assembled a ridiculous backline. I personally found Baresi's aggressive style even sexier in this team, but it of course makes total sense to pick as he has done.

But here it comes: I wouldn't have complained to see a Figueroa + Baresi duo (which I know Sjor doesn't dig). I see both more as complete modern CBs born early rather than libero specialists. On top, whatever I saw from Fig was certainly closer to Nesta than Beckenbauer. In a zonal/possession defense I can see them working together well.

I guess many would say this couldn't work in real football, on which I'd point to Baresi/Rijkaard as a CB duo for Milan. Pretty gung-ho at times, but damn excellent. And I have Rijkaard down as a much more attacking-minded CB than Figueroa.

Anyway, Fig & Nesta is stellar of course, and may still be better overall. Rest of the team I've praised enough before.

Think the idea behind Figueroa Nesta might be to counter Kocsis-Cristiano and Garrincha's crosses. Would definitely prefer that to Baresi.
 
Think the idea behind Figueroa Nesta might be to counter Kocsis-Cristiano and Garrincha's crosses. Would definitely prefer that to Baresi.

that played the part but they were also by far the best pair i could get and that fits perfectly with the team.

was thinking of maldini route for garrincha but wasnt able to find a stopper that i like + rate Cashley insanely high and if i would to pick a player to stop Garrincha he would be the next after Maldini
 
Cashley is pretty much the perfect choice for defending a tricky & super-agile winger, imo.

Sticking my neck out & saying maybe better than Maldini :wenger:
 
Well done @Šjor Bepo . Not much to upgrade since the semis as I think the team peaked early anyhow. Didn't have much choice in terms of maneuvering and as soon as you took Nesta and Figueroa I knew that Cristiano / Kocsis main weapon in the box would be negated and I couldn't really win the balance battle so decided to go with individual quality and spark up top.

To me false 9 version of Messi and older Cristiano work pretty well as Messi can create a ton for him, and Garrincha although not ideal in terms of runner is someone who can cause havoc on the wing and pull defenders wide creating space for those two in the middle.

All in all pretty happy with my team as it ended so nothing to complain for :)
 
Well done @Šjor Bepo . Not much to upgrade since the semis as I think the team peaked early anyhow. Didn't have much choice in terms of maneuvering and as soon as you took Nesta and Figueroa I knew that Cristiano / Kocsis main weapon in the box would be negated and I couldn't really win the balance battle so decided to go with individual quality and spark up top.

To me false 9 version of Messi and older Cristiano work pretty well as Messi can create a ton for him, and Garrincha although not ideal in terms of runner is someone who can cause havoc on the wing and pull defenders wide creating space for those two in the middle.

All in all pretty happy with my team as it ended so nothing to complain for :)

cheers
if we cant agree on Robben then we have zero to no chance on Ronaldo :D
 
@Pat_Mustard

I just watched the Zico comp. He really does remain very central at almost all points. Now if Elkjaer can provide a lot of width then it's less of an issue but the reason the front two work is that they both can occupy the CBs at the same time and they are not on their own. It seems more like it's a Elkjaer at RW and Zico at SS. That seems weird so more likely is Zanetti playing as a right winger. This can certainly work but tactically someone more happy to be in the inside right channel like Kopa seems to me to be a better tactical fit.

All that said, that point is quite minor. Sjor wins this easily.
 
Do I get a consolation prize for calling out the winner even before the semis?

Anyways, no shame in losing to a juggernaut. I was anyways never going to win this draft, you can never beat a really well built magic square in a draft game. At least I have never lost with one and I have built at least 2 good ones from memory.

Good luck @Enigma_87 and @Physiocrat , you are going to need it.
 
@Pat_Mustard

I just watched the Zico comp. He really does remain very central at almost all points. Now if Elkjaer can provide a lot of width then it's less of an issue but the reason the front two work is that they both can occupy the CBs at the same time and they are not on their own. It seems more like it's a Elkjaer at RW and Zico at SS. That seems weird so more likely is Zanetti playing as a right winger. This can certainly work but tactically someone more happy to be in the inside right channel like Kopa seems to me to be a better tactical fit.

All that said, that point is quite minor. Sjor wins this easily.

I don't see it like that. It's supposed to be quite a narrow formation, not a 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 in disguise. I can see the rationale behind preferring a Kopa or De Bruyne who strongly favours the right channels, but imo Zico can score and create from there, but more importantly you want him playing mostly centrally, collaborating with Iniesta. There's few better pairings than that to interact with each other and unlock defences in tight spaces. Of course, you still need to be able to stretch the pitch, but then Zanetti is one of the best flank-dominators ever. On Elkjaer, here's another one from the vaults when Sjor and I played him off the left wing, but his most incisive work from the flanks came from the right wing:



0:30: dropping back to defend the left wing.
1:28: scores his first goal from centre/left
2:05: run and left-footed cross from left wing
2:28: comes to the left wing to link play from a short corner
2:42: off the ball run on the left touchline
3:40: foraging tight to the left touchline again but a loose touch
3:50 defending the left wing
4:25: excellent wing-play and an issist via drilled cross from the right wing this time
5:02: flick from right wing
6:03: attempted hold up play in inside left channel then defending down left-wing
7:45: working the right wing
8:48: you can't get wider on the left wing than that :D
9:18: starting position on this attack and subsequent assist with another right wing cross is more Stanley Matthews than CF shoehorned out wide


So Zanetti as the primary width provider on the right, Elkjaer as the secondary provider, with Zico a very distant third is my reading of it, and it looks more than fine to me. What's your thoughts on this @Šjor Bepo ?
 
I don't see it like that. It's supposed to be quite a narrow formation, not a 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 in disguise. I can see the rationale behind preferring a Kopa or De Bruyne who strongly favours the right channels, but imo Zico can score and create from there, but more importantly you want him playing mostly centrally, collaborating with Iniesta. There's few better pairings than that to interact with each other and unlock defences in tight spaces. Of course, you still need to be able to stretch the pitch, but then Zanetti is one of the best flank-dominators ever. On Elkjaer, here's another one from the vaults when Sjor and I played him off the left wing, but his most incisive work from the flanks came from the right wing:

My next sentence is literally, "That seems weird so more likely is Zanetti playing as a right winger." I just don't think Zanetti being a right-winger in this setup is entirely ideal that's all.
 
So Zanetti as the primary width provider on the right, Elkjaer as the secondary provider, with Zico a very distant third is my reading of it, and it looks more than fine to me. What's your thoughts on this @Šjor Bepo ?

Zanetti, Tigana, Zico and Elkjaer.....Zanetti as primary width provider and other 3 more then happy to drift wide when needed.
 
My next sentence is literally, "That seems weird so more likely is Zanetti playing as a right winger." I just don't think Zanetti being a right-winger in this setup is entirely ideal that's all.

He's taking on some of the functions of a traditional winger, but he's not playing as a winger, any more than the likes of Kaladze and Cafe were in Milan's diamnds and Xmas trees of the early 2000s. He's just an attacking FB in a back four, taxing and risky as that is against a Demyanenko/Cristiano flank.

We're getting more heated here than the two lazy bastard managers FFS :D
 
He's taking on some of the functions of a traditional winger, but he's not playing as a winger, any more than the likes of Kaladze and Cafe were in Milan's diamnds and Xmas trees of the early 2000s. He's just an attacking FB in a back four, taxing and risky as that is against a Demyanenko/Cristiano flank.

We're getting more heated here than the two lazy bastard managers FFS :D

Well the diamonds and Christmas trees have a bit more protection as they have a pivot and two shutters. Also Cristiano will be happier to start wider than Zico will so there's a coverage difference there too. But again, minor points.
 
Well the diamonds and Christmas trees have a bit more protection as they have a pivot and two shutters. Also Cristiano will be happier to start wider than Zico will so there's a coverage difference there too. But again, minor points.

Fair points. It's clearly the most vulnerable segment of Sjor's team defensively imo, I just feel that it's hunky-dory in the attacking phase for a formation that's built around creating primarily through the centre of the park.