Pochettino | Leaves Chelsea by mutual consent

[TheMagicFoolBus]

You saw the job Tuchel done at Bayern and still want him back?
Also he isn't coming back.

I mean very obviously yes. If they win their last two games Bayern would have enough points to win the Bundesliga in basically any year; Leverkusen have had a completely unsustainable and freakishly good season.

Bayern have totally fecked up their recruitment for the last 2-3 seasons. Apart from Kane and Musiala they haven't had an unqualified successful transfer in going back to 2020/2021. That squad has been in decline for years now.

 

[jakko]

I mean very obviously yes. If they win their last two games Bayern would have enough points to win the Bundesliga in basically any year; Leverkusen have had a completely unsustainable and freakishly good season.

Bayern have totally fecked up their recruitment for the last 2-3 seasons. Apart from Kane and Musiala they haven't had an unqualified successful transfer in going back to 2020/2021. That squad has been in decline for years now.

They still lost 7 league games and he had the best CF in the league. Tuchel talent ID isn't great anyway so keep him far away from recruitment.
This is the bloke who nearly cost us Colwill and cost us Gilmour. Cant believe so many people want this manager back when the football was horrific to watch for a while.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

They still lost 7 league games and he had the best CF in the league. Tuchel talent ID isn't great anyway so keep him far away from recruitment.
This is the bloke who nearly cost us Colwill and cost us Gilmour. Cant believe so many people want this manager back when the football was horrific to watch for a while.

Tuchel doesn't want to be involved in recruitment. He left Chelsea because he was asked to do too much recruiting.

The best CF in the league is all well and good when he's scoring 3 or 4 against Darmstadt but him being sat in front of a completely depleted midfield is what counts. Personally I think it's ludicrous to blame Tuchel for the situation Bayern find themselves in - and the Bayern supporters agree given that they're all signing petitions like mad to try to get him to stay.

Also our football being "horrific" had much more to do with our finishing being awful. All our underlying metrics under Tuchel were elite.

 

[jakko]

Tuchel doesn't want to be involved in recruitment. He left Chelsea because he was asked to do too much recruiting.

The best CF in the league is all well and good when he's scoring 3 or 4 against Darmstadt but him being sat in front of a completely depleted midfield is what counts. Personally I think it's ludicrous to blame Tuchel for the situation Bayern find themselves in - and the Bayern supporters agree given that they're all signing petitions like mad to try to get him to stay.

Also our football being "horrific" had much more to do with our finishing being awful. All our underlying metrics under Tuchel were elite.

He only had to do it one window, we had no one else we relied on him as we didn't have enough time to employ someone to do recruitment.
This guy had an unlimited budget one summer and didn't address any of our weaknesses, didn't sign us a backup RB, DM, or a creator.

His football wasn't sustainable hence we got worse over time, count how many times we never came back from 1-0 down to win. We struggled to break down deep blocks hence we had the 8th or 9th best home record under him.
The decline already started with him in charge last season, lost to two relegated teams Southampton and Leeds and the worst team in our CL group Dinamo. They sacked him before it could get any worse and saved his reputation.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

He only had to do it one window, we had no one else we relied on him as we didn't have enough time to employ someone to do recruitment.
This guy had an unlimited budget one summer and didn't address any of our weaknesses, didn't sign us a backup RB, DM, or a creator.

His football wasn't sustainable hence we got worse over time, count how many times we never came back from 1-0 down to win. We struggled to break down deep blocks hence we had the 8th or 9th best home record under him.
The decline already started with him in charge last season, lost to two relegated teams Southampton and Leeds and the worst team in our CL group Dinamo. They sacked him before it could get any worse and saved his reputation.

Why are you judging him based on recruitment when he has spoken openly about how little he wants to be involved in that?

If you extrapolate the points he won over the course of the full season we'd have been 4th or 5th. The points he won were genuinely the biggest reason why we weren't involved in a relegation battle. Given the chaos at the club it's ridiculous to hold this against him.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

If you extrapolate the points he won over the course of the full season we'd have been 4th or 5th. The points he won were genuinely the biggest reason why we weren't involved in a relegation battle. Given the chaos at the club it's ridiculous to hold this against him.

Neither of those things are true are they? He only managed 6 games, got 10 points. Played none of the other big 4.
1.66 pts per game (good enough for 6th place) would absolutely have come down once playing the other big sides so if we're extremely nice and give him around 1.6, that puts him 8th/9th for the season.

If we then take the points taken over the remaining 32 games of the season and discard the fact that they included Spurs x 1, City x 2, Arsenal x 2, Liverpool x 2 and United x 2, then it'd have been 40 points over 38 games. Chelsea were't getting in a relegation fight nor achieving 6th place unless we're making daft scenarios where smaller teams are more difficult than the bigger sides.

I think it looks likely keeping Tuchel would have meant 8th, getting rid meant 12th.
Obviously sacking him for Potter was a very daft decision, but I'm interested to see if they make another daft mistake now and sack Poch just as it appears he's building something for Chelsea to be excited about.

 

[Dazzmondo]

After the fans constantly asking for him to be sacked and ignoring any progress made with a ridiculously inexperienced squad, Poch will end up walking due to the poor football structure at the club, Chelsea will go back to square 1 next season with another up and coming manager like De Zerbi or Iraola, and Chelsea will finish on less points than this season.

Having seen what terrible ownership does to a club, Chelsea feels remarkably similar. It's a club that's going to keep making the wrong decision time after time, and the fans will probably only realise it after it's too late.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

After the fans constantly asking for him to be sacked and ignoring any progress made with a ridiculously inexperienced squad, Poch will end up walking due to the poor football structure at the club, Chelsea will go back to square 1 next season with another up and coming manager like De Zerbi or Iraola, and Chelsea will finish on less points than this season.

Having seen what terrible ownership does to a club, Chelsea feels remarkably similar. It's a club that's going to keep making the wrong decision time after time, and the fans will probably only realise it after it's too late.

Absolutely agree.

The positive signs are there now with Poch, has given City a tough game every time they've met, xG looks excellent, possession stats suggest control, and the end of season results suggest things are starting to click.

So feck me, I hope they fire the bloke and do a Man United style reset with another manager.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Neither of those things are true are they? He only managed 6 games, got 10 points. Played none of the other big 4.
1.66 pts per game (good enough for 6th place) would absolutely have come down once playing the other big sides so if we're extremely nice and give him around 1.6, that puts him 8th/9th for the season.

If we then take the points taken over the remaining 32 games of the season and discard the fact that they included Spurs x 1, City x 2, Arsenal x 2, Liverpool x 2 and United x 2, then it'd have been 40 points over 38 games. Chelsea were't getting in a relegation fight nor achieving 6th place unless we're making daft scenarios where smaller teams are more difficult than the bigger sides.

I think it looks likely keeping Tuchel would have meant 8th, getting rid meant 12th.
Obviously sacking him for Potter was a very daft decision, but I'm interested to see if they make another daft mistake now and sack Poch just as it appears he's building something for Chelsea to be excited about.

We got completely fecked out of a win against Spurs in fairness, as admitted by the VAR of the match. It's obviously small sample size but extrapolating with 12 points instead of 10 puts us on 76 and 3rd in the table - which more than anything illustrates the futility of this exercise. The point is that Tuchel won Chelsea 23% of our points for the year in 16% of the matches - he obviously wasn't the problem.

 

[Rnd898]

After the fans constantly asking for him to be sacked and ignoring any progress made with a ridiculously inexperienced squad, Poch will end up walking due to the poor football structure at the club, Chelsea will go back to square 1 next season with another up and coming manager like De Zerbi or Iraola, and Chelsea will finish on less points than this season.

Thing is, there wasn't any progreess for the first 40 or so games (all comps). It was seeing the same mistakes and the same gaping holes in the team over and over again, week after week.

Then Poch made some tactical tweaks a few weeks ago and the team have looked so much better now. Inverting Cucurella to the midfield to make it a 3-2-4-1 when on possession is something that was tried during pre-season but was then never seen again till a couple of weeks ago, what could possibly be Poch's excuse to not make that change sooner? It's not like there were some failed experiments along the way that just made it take some time to find something that works because the football was exactly the same chaotic non-sense for the first 90% of the season before making the change that actually brought some solidity.

Right now that it seems we've finally stumbled upon a structure that actually functions so I'm cautiously 'Poch in' but just a few weeks ago he was absolutely deserving of a sacking due to some very questionable choices throughout the season and zero progress to be seen.

 

[Dazzmondo]

Thing is, there wasn't any progreess for the first 40 or so games (all comps). It was seeing the same mistakes and the same gaping holes in the team over and over again, week after week.

Then Poch made some tactical tweaks a few weeks ago and the team have looked so much better now. Inverting Cucurella to the midfield to make it a 3-2-4-1 when on possession is something that was tried during pre-season but was then never seen again till a couple of weeks ago, what could possibly be Poch's excuse to not make that change sooner? It's not like there were some failed experiments along the way that just made it take some time to find something that works because the football was exactly the same chaotic non-sense for the first 90% of the season before making the change that actually brought some solidity.

Right now that it seems we've finally stumbled upon a structure that actually functions so I'm cautiously 'Poch in' but just a few weeks ago he was absolutely deserving of a sacking due to some very questionable choices throughout the season and zero progress to be seen.

Even before the last few games you were getting more points than under Potter, and your underlying numbers were actually very good both defensively and in attack, your players were simply making mistakes constantly and were wasteful in front of goal. That will always happen when nearly your whole squad is under 23. Enzo Fernandez being pushed into your team was also making you worse imo, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if Poch was told by the higher ups he had to play Enzo due to him being your big signing. Poch wasn't deserving a sacking, your board was.

Your fans never wanted Poch to succeed from the start anyway. You were looking for any reason to get rid of him, and anything short of undeniable improvement (aka CL football) was going to see him being hounded out. Unless Tuchel decides to go back (which I doubt he would considering how he was treated by the board), I doubt any top manager would want to go there. Even the shitshow that Utd is would be more attractive, since there's at least the possibility for change under INEOS.

 

[FootballHQ]

Seems it's a case of he needs to qualify for Europa league to keep his job, big ask with Newcastle two points clear and having three games.

Conference league and it seems they wouldn't get a licence to play in that?

 

[1905]

Your fans never wanted Poch to succeed from the start anyway. You were looking for any reason to get rid of him, and anything short of undeniable improvement (aka CL football) was going to see him being hounded out. Unless Tuchel decides to go back (which I doubt he would considering how he was treated by the board), I doubt any top manager would want to go there. Even the shitshow that Utd is would be more attractive, since there's at least the possibility for change under INEOS.

That's silly. Did you see this place during pre-season or the fans at the matches? We were extremely patient with him which surprised me given he is ex Spurs. The fans were waiting for something that resembles slight progress or identity but we never got it until recent weeks. He should've gone in my opinion after that Liverpool match, and he was likely 2 minutes away from going in that Utd match.

The issue we have now looking at Bayern scrambling around for a manager is that maybe its not the best time to change when there is no one really obvious to go for. This board will never go for Tuchel again.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Seems it's a case of he needs to qualify for Europa league to keep his job, big ask with Newcastle two points clear and having three games.

Conference league and it seems they wouldn't get a licence to play in that?

Reportedly we'd sit out out of the Conference league as it would be a net negative financially but would play in the Europa league.

 

[Alex99]

Reportedly we'd sit out out of the Conference league as it would be a net negative financially but would play in the Europa league.

Are you allowed to just reject the spot? Seems like the sort of thing you'd get penalised for.

 

[FootballHQ]

Are you allowed to just reject the spot? Seems like the sort of thing you'd get penalised for.

I think a few years back AC Milan voluntarily withdrew from Uefa competitions due to FFP and there were no sanctions. Also have Uefa refusing sometimes to hand out licences if teams don't meet some specified criteria.

I assume then it goes down to 8th so sorry Man. United but you're not escaping Conference league by the looks of it.

Edit: Uefa banned AC Milan from europe in 19/20 season.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Are you allowed to just reject the spot? Seems like the sort of thing you'd get penalised for.

Don't know the exact verbiage - it might be something like us accepting a 1 year ban for not meeting UEFA's financial standards? As @FootballHQ says Milan did this a few years ago with no broader repercussions.

 

[giorno]

Worth pointing out advanced metrics have liked chelsea all season long - pretty much every model has had them as the 4th best team in the league all season. Not close to the top 3, but better than their results

 

[ohhrooney]

Well well well, Since Boxing Day, only three teams have picked up more points than Chelsea (35) in the Premier League - Manchester City, Arsenal and Liverpool.

 

[Lash]

I think a few years back AC Milan voluntarily withdrew from Uefa competitions due to FFP and there were no sanctions. Also have Uefa refusing sometimes to hand out licences if teams don't meet some specified criteria.

I assume then it goes down to 8th so sorry Man. United but you're not escaping Conference league by the looks of it.

Edit: Uefa banned AC Milan from europe in 19/20 season.

I don't mind that, potentially a chance to go to some far flung places!

 

[Scroto Baggins]

Well well well, Since Boxing Day, only three teams have picked up more points than Chelsea (35) in the Premier League - Manchester City, Arsenal and Liverpool.

They have turned a corner. Still think given the young squad there will be a lot of inconsistencies to iron out for Pochettino.

But it looks like the higher ups are happy to stick it out with Pochettino and see where the project goes. Have overtaken United in the table now.

The problem for Chelsea will be FFP, really need to trim the squad and claw back some of that, was it near 1b? Pochettino should have a good idea moving forward who stays and who they can cash in on after a sesson.

 

[giorno]

Edit: Uefa banned AC Milan from europe in 19/20 season.

By mutual agreement

 

[UsualSuspect]

They have turned a corner. Still think given the young squad there will be a lot of inconsistencies to iron out for Pochettino.

But it looks like the higher ups are happy to stick it out with Pochettino and see where the project goes. Have overtaken United in the table now.

The problem for Chelsea will be FFP, really need to trim the squad and claw back some of that, was it near 1b? Pochettino should have a good idea moving forward who stays and who they can cash in on after a sesson.

Absolutely. But really the risk the sporting directors took with an unbalanced squad was exacerbated by injuries. The sheer amount is bad enough but it's who had them that was most damaging. James, Chilwell, Nkunku, Fofana, Chalobah, Colwill, Lavia. There's a decent amount of top-level experience there.

Not as much of a problem as people purport. Wages will be significantly less going forward. -+350m in sales accompanied the 1bn spend. And almost a quarter of which was not on players for the first team. In terms of player sales that would be counted on the books for next season - Mount, Hall, Maatsen, Ziyech. Add to that the likely sales of Gallagher, Chalobah, and Lukaku - I don't see any significant problems...

 

[Rajiztar]

Absolutely. But really the risk the sporting directors took with an unbalanced squad was exacerbated by injuries. The sheer amount is bad enough but it's who had them that was most damaging. James, Chilwell, Nkunku, Fofana, Chalobah, Colwill, Lavia. There's a decent amount of top-level experience there.

Not as much of a problem as people purport. Wages will be significantly less going forward. -+350m in sales accompanied the 1bn spend. And almost a quarter of which was not on players for the first team. In terms of player sales that would be counted on the books for next season - Mount, Hall, Maatsen, Ziyech. Add to that the likely sales of Gallagher, Chalobah, and Lukaku - I don't see any significant problems...

If we sell Gallagher then we are biggest fools. That man deserved new contract and he breathes chelsea.

 

[UsualSuspect]

If we sell Gallagher then we are biggest fools. That man deserved new contract and he breathes chelsea.

Agreed. Would love him to stick around but unfortunately he doesn't start with a (mostly) fit squad, so that makes him expendable - especially during a rebuild. If we could somehow move any combination of Chilwell, Sterling, Disasi, Broja and keep him...that would be great.

 

[WeePat]

Bit of a turnaround at the arse end of the season.

Could secure 6th with a draw at the weekend.

 

[caid]

Bit of a turnaround at the arse end of the season.

Could secure 6th with a draw at the weekend.

Turning a 16 goal difference around clearly isn't going to happen so I'm hoping for 5th so i can laugh at Spurs.

 

[Dancfc]

Turning a 16 goal difference around clearly isn't going to happen so I'm hoping for 5th so i can laugh at Spurs.

If they were playing away to anyone other than Sheffield United I'd think there was a chance but I just cannot imagine them losing that one sadly, even a bad day (like we had at that ground) should still be a point at worst.

 

[horsechoker]

In the Amadeus was right. It's just a shame he didn't live to see Poch take Chelsea to 6th place.

 

[BorisManUtd]

Should beat Bournemouth at home on final day so 5 wins in last 5 is good ending of the season and promising for next one. Think Poch will have good 2nd season there.

 

[caid]

If they were playing away to anyone other than Sheffield United I'd think there was a chance but I just cannot imagine them losing that one sadly, even a bad day (like we had at that ground) should still be a point at worst.

Yeah, i can dream.
Bournemouth have been quite good recently too haven't they

 

[Bluelion7]

The PL is going to hit the emergency button and have, like, 3 extra VAR teams at the Bournemouth game.

Younger teams need consistency., and we are not a few tactical improvements away from challenging for titles.

The team is obviously working hard and giving everything they have for him. That alone is valuable.

Cole Palmer really likes him.

The tactical adjustments and tempo levels have improved greatly as players became available again.

I don’t think Pochettino is our legacy manager, still at the squad 6 years from now. But replacing in this situation seems like a bad idea.

 

[always_hoping]

Should beat Bournemouth at home on final day so 5 wins in last 5 is good ending of the season and promising for next one. Think Poch will have good 2nd season there.

Unlike this season there will be the distraction of European football for Chelsea. My money will be on things to turn pear shaped and Poch to get replaced midway through next season.

 

[Sgreddevil]

I wonder if we have been duped by Chelsea to sign Mount instead of Palmer. They must have known who is the real player that they wanted to retain and build the team for future.
No wonder the acqusition seems too smooth as I will expect team to fightback fiercely if their key talisman is being targeted.

 

[tentan]

They are slowly improving each week. They'll keep him.

 

[Dave Smith]

Unlike this season there will be the distraction of European football for Chelsea. My money will be on things to turn pear shaped and Poch to get replaced midway through next season.

Maybe, it will depend on their injuries. They have a massive squad - but it has just been injured - and the changes to the CL/EL next season where no teams drop to the EL from the CL and the extra 4 teams being in the CL means the EL is going to be easier. If Chelsea qualify for it, they will likely be favourites even with their young side.

 

[Ish]

Phew! Thank the lord that the mods banned Poch himself from the Caf a while back, or this thread would have been insufferable.

Anyway, he was under some real pressure but he’s turning it around a bit. Good on Poch. They still have a couple of players to come back as well - Lavia & Fofana who I’m mostly thinking of. And if James can stay fit (& not get sent off!), plus 1 or 2 key signings, they should be a top 4 contender next season.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

In the Amadeus was right. It's just a shame he didn't live to see Poch take Chelsea to 6th place.

I'm sure he's living his best life, over the rainbow bridge, running through fields of wheat and sniffing other Poch fans' bum holes.

 

[stefan92]

Phew! Thank the lord that the mods banned Poch himself from the Caf a while back, or this thread would have been insufferable.

Anyway, he was under some real pressure but he’s turning it around a bit. Good on Poch. They still have a couple of players to come back as well - Lavia & Fofana who I’m mostly thinking of. And if James can stay fit (& not get sent off!), plus 1 or 2 key signings, they should be a top 4 contender next season.

Probably that ban gave him time to finally coach his team to perform. There is a direct correlation between that ban and their results...

 

[Mb194dc]

Enzo getting injured has shown our midfield works much better with Caicedo and Gallagher. Unless we switch to a 3, he'll surely be benched.

Palmer has been a revelation with key goals.

Not sure if it's down to Poch or just got lucky.

If we get Europa League, he'll definitely get next season I think.

Have to get top for minimum and deep runs in cups.

The chokes in the final and Semi this season are big ? for him for me. He'll need to win something to dispell it.