I understand what your saying, however there is a correlation of players not getting playing time and stagnating.
Phil Foden - What Is His Potential?
- Thread starter Davs
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I understand what your saying, however there is a correlation of players not getting playing time and stagnating.
I think it will be a shame for City if pep doesn't start integrating him into the first team. If he's as good as people say (and I have no reason to believe otherwise), then he needs to get his feet wet.
A loan move might also be beneficial. Kane went on loan before taking Spurs first team by storm. Loan him to Bournemouth or a Spanish club, for example, and that's a good way of gradually getting top experience.
KdB wasn't from Chelsea academy.
Btw, one example is Pogba, then there are players like Fabregas, Pique, Alba, Mata and few more.
But what constitutes "playing time"? We gave Kelechi 64 first-team appearances across two seasons, 46 in the Premier League, and all before the age of 21 (most of them before the age of 20). What about that suggests we weren't giving him playing time? If Phil Foden makes twenty appearances of any description this season (let's say, five starts in the Premier League + five sub appearances, three starts in the League Cup + one sub appearance, three starts in the FA Cup + one sub appearance, two sub appearances in the Champions' League), he'll have made thirty first-team appearances for a Premier League-winning, Champions' League-level club before the age of 19.
Would you expect McTominay to leave United for West Ham with those appearance numbers? Would you expect Lookman to force his way out of Everton? Would Maitland-Niles or Reiss Nelson try to engineer a move away from Arsenal? I don't think you'd see any of that happening. Foden hasn't proved a thing in open age football yet, so I'd say it's best to let him begin his development at a club he's grown up supporting, in an area where he's grown up and where his family are no doubt based, before we start shipping him off elsewhere.
Lukaku...Salah too.
And Dom Solanke.
You'll see many here advocating McTominay to go on loan and play more minutes than he'd get here. Lookin was trying to leave to go to Leipzig aswell.
It's not necessarily the amount of appearances, but the minutes they spend on the pitch. Also it's consecutive games, we're they can improve on what they did wrong the week before, instead of not getting a chance for another 4 weeks or until the next cup game rolls around.
Thought he was top class everytime I saw him. Hard to decide between him and Sancho.
There are a few:
Toni Kroos
David Alaba
Dani Carvajal
Samuel Eto'o
Alvaro Morata
Just some names I could immediately think of. Most of them are related to the Bundesliga in some way so that may be why they came to my mind so easily. Probably one simply forgets about the way top players went before becoming world class quite easily.
There are a few:
Toni Kroos
David Alaba
Dani Carvajal
Samuel Eto'o
Alvaro Morata
Just some names I could immediately think of. Most of them are related to the Bundesliga in some way so that may be why they came to my mind so easily. Probably one simply forgets about the way top players went before becoming world class quite easily.
Foden will be a player. The torch-carrier for the progress made in English grassroots football. The first of many, ideally.
Assistant manager of a small shop that only has two staff, if he works hard enough.
He was brilliant, borderline unplayable, in the U17 World Cup. He certainly has the talent. It's how he grows with the men's game and if St. Pep actually gives him a chance in the first team.
Phil Foden, World cup 2026 winner. Has a nice ring to it.
Loan to Leeds under Bielsa would seem ideal. Then come back and slowly but surely interchange with Silva.
Guardiola is the coach who started using a completely unknown and not particularly talented Pedro ahead of Thierry Henry. The one who sold Ronaldinho to trust on a 20 year old Messi and Deco to hand the responsibility over the Andres Iniesta who was only a prospect back then. The list of Barca talents given the chance by Pep multiple times is long and there are some further stars like Busquets, Pique or Thiago as well as flops like Cuenca, Bojan, Tello and many many more who were forgotten.
I think if a young player shows the quality, willingness to learn and skill set for his system, Pep will give him playing time, even ahead of much more prominent competitors.
You sure there? European Champion, 24 years old, 226 games for Barca including 41 CL games, all before Pep came. He was not some unknown guy.
The two academy graduates (not bought players) who were made by Pep into great players were Busquets and Pedro. You could include Pique as well if you are generous, because he was from La Masia and still young-ish.
His record with Academy graduates at Bayern was shocking though. Can't remember one decent player he pulled up from the academy.
Good point about Iniesta. Concerning the Bayern part: He famously gave Gaudino the chance in an opening match of the Bundesliga I believe and he looked like a world beater but it turned out he was a one hit wonder. And that was kind of symbolic for many promising young Bayern players around that time. All the supposedly great Bayern talents were given a chance but they didn't convince. And it is not like that there is one young player who left and set the world on fire afterwards. Gaudino, Kurt, Hojberg, Scholl, they all faded away without really shining. He still was a great supporter of Kimmich and Coman.
However,you can pretty much say that about all young players Guardiola coached. Either they succeeded under him or they never really did elsewhere anyway. I mean, there is no Salah, Eto'o or de Bruyne story where Pep ignored a talented youngster and he regretted it later on. I really can't think of any player that really proved him wrong (which of course doesn't mean that there are none, I am happy to be corrected).
Messi came 3rd and 2nd in the Ballon D’Or the two seasons before Pep became manager. Hardly some great vision from Pep to keep playing him and sack of a guy who couldn’t be bothered training properly.
How about Jadon Sancho? He should have promised him enough first team chances. If you are good enough for starting at Borussia Dortmund, then you are certainly good enough to be the sub for the last 10 mins instead of 50m Bernardo Silva. He keeps stockpiling 50m players for the RW (he has three now), yet he had Sancho and Brahim Diaz, two very highly rated youngsters.
That is not to only criticize Pep on that matter, many top clubs are too afraid to play their youth at an early age. When did the last Juventus academy graduate earn a first team spot? What players did Barcelona, Bayern, Chelsea etc. pull up into the first team from their academy in the last decade? I can only think of Sergi Roberto at Barca and Alaba at Bayern. One first team player in a decade is such a poor record. No excuses for that.
The parallels with Wilshere are striking. He seems a very similar player. I'd expect him to be hyped in a similar way when he starts to get more first team football, either at City or on loan.
Hopefully for him he can live up to the hype. Wilshere is evidence that talent alone guarantees nothing.
Hopefully for him he can live up to the hype. Wilshere is evidence that talent alone guarantees nothing.
Do you not think it’s possible that your current club set up will never be conducive to bringing youth through? Domestically you’ve been very successful over the last few years, but as a United fan I can tell you that watching local players win trophies is a special feeling.
Not sure about Foden, I have seen many players getting hyped as if they're going to become world class in the future but they mostly end up having a good career at midtable or lower. I'd guess there'd be better players than Foden in coming season, it's just unknown players who are not on radars for a big clubs. For an example, Rashford just came out of nothing, he wasn't hyped as Janauaj or Ravel Morrison who is said to be better than Pogba in youth.
Talent is obviously there, but not more than Sancho, Hudson-Odoi, Sessengon and our very own Gomes.
It is about how these players progress and not stagnate that is the challenge.
It is about how these players progress and not stagnate that is the challenge.
Q
You'd take him over KDB?
I think it is all down to the young players attitude. They have to really want it. Train hard and when you get an opportunity take it.
He should develop into a truly world class player if he stays clear of injury and keeps a good attitude and is ambitious. If City mess him about like Chelsea are doing RLC he should not be afraid to jump ship
It's very hard for us arm-chair football fans to judge footballers that we've only see play reserve team football along with a bit of youth national games and some first team cameos. It's even hard for managers and coaches to judge when to give them opportunities and they watch them every day in training. For us it's pure speculation on far they'll make it since the most important aspect of their game (the mental part) hasn't been properly tested yet.
More talent that Rooney at that age? Have a day off would ya.
Have to say looks extremely talented, but he’s not going to get the minutes he needs at City.
Have to say looks extremely talented, but he’s not going to get the minutes he needs at City.
Sancho isn't really a City academy grad either - he moved there from Watford just before his 16th birthday.
Indeed. When Rooney had already played 60+ games for Everton, signed for Manchester United and played for England when he was 18.
Of course Foden is at a much better side than Everton was back then but he's played in just 10 top flight games, that's it.
Not saying Foden won't be a great but people forget who good Rooney was as a teenager.
Which means he played for and graduated from City's academy. If you play for an academy you're a graduate of it. It's a simple concept.
Yeah, when United did that video on him it really reminded me on how bloody good he was as a teenager. His CL debut was incredible!
Exactly my thoughts on it, he’s obviously talented, but let’s also not forget how dominant physically, Rooney was at that age, as well as technique. Foden would get chopped in half every other game if he was starting the same amount of games.
Sancho > Foden just because of the name
City don't really nurture talent.
He should move.
He should move.
Toni Kroos, David Alaba, Thomas Muller, Holger Badstuber (was a regular before injuries destroyed him). All have played more than 150 times for Bayern and played their first professional matches for the club.
Bayern are suffering with a lack of quality youth players now but for the past decade their teams base (including Lahm and Schweinsteiger) has been their youth products.
Foden is a City fan so he’ll take the crap ready to be doles out to him, believe the genius Pep that he has a great future and before he knowps it he’ll be 25 and played 6 games a season because the genius prefers Spanish players.
Then again, Guardiola will bugger off either next season, especially if they bomb in the CL again, or the one after.
Foden looks fragile too. He’s injured apparently for the match today. Wilshere mark2? Good luck to the lad though, but I fear for him at the soap opera that is Man City.
Then again, Guardiola will bugger off either next season, especially if they bomb in the CL again, or the one after.
Foden looks fragile too. He’s injured apparently for the match today. Wilshere mark2? Good luck to the lad though, but I fear for him at the soap opera that is Man City.
Kroos, Muller and Badstuber left the Bayern academy in 2009. That is not part of this decade, it means they have only pulled up one first team player in 9 years.
I stand by David Alaba being the only succesful youth product in a long time, and even he joined the team 7 years ago. I don't know why Bayern is lacking the talent in their academy. One decade is around 5 generations of U18 players, and there hasn't been one good player there (besides Alaba)? Maybe their coaching is lacking? I mean it's not like there is a general dearth of talent in German football. The usual suspects of Schalke and Stuttgart still went on to produce national team players, some of them are well on their way to become world class.
Anyway I feel were are drifting away a bit, since this the Phil Foden thread, not the Bayern academy thread.
He's not city graduate, he didn't sign a professional contract with City and City didn't give him debut.
Did he play for City's academy? Yes.
The u17 team that won the World Cup was brilliant and I wouldn't be surprised if at least 2 from the likes of Hudson-Odoi, Sancho, Foden, Brewster, Gomes, Panzo went on to become World Class.