Pat VS Downcast - NT peak draft

Who would win based on players in the peak from their chosen tournament?


  • Total voters
    23
  • Poll closed .

Annahnomoss

Full Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2012
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Only the players performance in the chosen tournament should be considered.


Substitutes: Schiaffino, Jorginho, Hassler
Formation: lopsided 4-3-3

Tactical Synopsis: A moderate-deep defensive line shielded by a rugged central midfield pairing and augmented by tireless workers further up the pitch. Fast transitions and a high tempo attacking style orchestrated by Platini.

The team is built around Michel Platini at the absolute peak of his powers. Platini in his Euro ’84 pomp is without question one of the greatest match winners in this draft – a playmaker of outstanding influence and passing range, and a lethal goalscorer who hit 9 goals in 5 games. We’ve given him free rein as playmaker here, with complete licence to roam and to orchestrate our attacking game. Platini’s supporting cast in midfield and attack should complement his game nicely:

1) Elkjaer: The bruising, bullying battering ram who will lead the line while Platini starts moves from deeper areas, and moreover an extremely mobile livewire who will drag defenders all over the place to create space for Platini and Kempes to surge into.

2) Kempes: Another bona fide match-winner, who shares Platini’s penchant for quick tempo, thrusting attacking moves. A wonderful outlet for Platini’s passing, and his chaotic, hyperactive style of dribbling and quick interchanges should create plenty of opportunities for Platini in return.

3) Ghiggia: As an orthodox winger he’s in some ways atypical for a Platini side, but I’d argue that some consistent, genuine width will not only provide Platini with a constant outlet, but stretch the opposition defence and decongest the middle for Le Roi.

4) Fernandez and Lerby: A pair of defensively resolute, exceptionally hard-working midfielders who strike the right balance between having the quality in possession themselves without competing with Platini for the playmaker mantle. Lerby in particular had a superb range of passing but had no problem deferring to the likes of Arnesen and Olsen when necessary and allowing his other qualities to come to the fore.

Our defence is excellent by any standard, and elevated even higher by the parameters of this draft. In terms of World Cup peaks from defenders, Cannavaro in 2006 and Thuram in 1998 both have credible claims to be the best ever, and are certainly in the top echelon. McGrath’s 1994 tournament is the stuff of legend here in Ireland. Past his peak, ravaged with alcohol problems and bad knees, suffering terribly with a shoulder injury on top of that, he still repelled Baggio’s Italy to seal a famous 1-0 win for Ireland. Lizarazu, veteran of an extremely narrow France setup in 1998, will similarly provide some of our attacking width here.

Why We’ll Win:

Without knowing Downcast’s line up there’s an element of guess work here, but I see two main advantages for us:

1) Platini given free rein: We’ve cleared the decks here for Platini – no competing playmakers, just a supporting cast who offer different qualities, from the movement and ball-carrying of Kempes and Ghiggia to the robust ball-winning of Lerby and Fernandez. In contrast, Downcast looks likely to line up with some configuration of Netzer/Kopa/Albert, and there may be question marks as to whether he can get the best from them.

2) Midfield Balance/Regaining Possession: Those multiple playmakers in Downcast’s squad may also come at the price of a balanced midfield – Zito looks like his only defensively orientated player, and he’ll likely have too much to handle versus Platini and Kempes. Platini himself was probably more effective defensively than any of Netzer/Kopa/Albert, and moreover he’s got the heavyweight pairing of Lerby and Fernandez to do most of the heavy lifting. Elsewhere, both Kempes and Elkjaer were renowned for hounding the opposition when out of possession, whereas I don’t see a similar level of graft permeating the opposition team.

Short Profiles and Tournament Credentials:

Jose Luis Chilavert (WC 98): Conceded only 2 goals in 4 games (including 1 in extra time to the eventual winners), as one of Paraguay’s key players along with Gamarra. Made the All Star squad, and impressed with his shot-stopping, leadership and ability in possession.

Lilian Thuram (WC 98): A cornerstone of the miserly France defence that conceded only 2 goals en route to their WC win, this defensive full back memorably took matters into his own hands in the semi-final vs Croatia to win the game with two late goals. His WC performances helped him to a 7th place finish in that year’s Ballon d’Or rankings, the highest of all the French defenders.

Bizente Lizarazu (WC 98): Thuram’s partner in crime on the other flank in that France defence, Lizarazu also ranked in the 1998 Ballon d’Or, and displayed his customary excellence at both ends of the pitch, even popping up to score against Saudi Arabia.

Fabio Cannavaro (WC 06): Cannavaro’s performances in winning this WC effectively won him the Ballon d’Or, and place him squarely at the top of the heap in terms of defenders in this pool. Of the Italy defence that conceded only an own goal and a disputed penalty all tournament, only he and Buffon started every match, with Cannavaro’s MOTM performance vs Germany being the apex of an individually flawless tournament.

Paul McGrath (WC 94): A national icon and a personal hero of mine, McGrath’s heroic resistance act against Baggio’s Italy ranks amongst the greatest defensive displays I’ve personally seen. He also turned in a dominant performance against Norway, and was somewhat unfortunate to have a goal disallowed against Holland after a lovely piece of skill.

Luis Fernandez (WC 86): Fernandez supplanted the gifted Bernard Genghini in the France lineup to provide the balance and defensive solidity that enabled Le Carre Magique to stake a claim as one of the all-time great midfields. A resolute and composed presence both Euro ‘84 and the WC two years later, his individual performance in the WC is rated a little higher.

Soren Lerby (EURO 84): One of several of my players who excelled in both Euro ’84 and WC ’86. I’ve opted for the 84 version here simply as I’ve watched more of him and he seemed to play deeper and more centrally. A dogged, hyper-committed box to box player, Lerby was integral to the one midfield in that Euros that came anywhere close to keeping Platini under the cosh, impressing with his excellent range of passing as well as his defensive work.

Michel Platini (EURO 84): The jewel in the crown. Only Maradona can claim to have surpassed Platini’s glorious single tournament peak in 1984, where he orchestrated France’s triumph as a playmaker of the highest calibre, scoring 9 goals in 5 matches along the way.

Alcides Ghiggia (WC 50): “Only three people have silenced the Maracanã. The Pope, Frank Sinatra – and me.” Ghiggia earned himself a place in footballing folklore with his match winning interventions against a massively favoured Brazil, assisting Schiaffino for Uruguay’s equaliser before scoring the winner himself. A quick, nimble right winger by trade, Ghiggia falls squarely in the spirit of this draft, elevating himself above even his usual, stellar level to score 4 goals in 4 World Cup games and emerge as a match winner on the biggest occasion of all.

Mario Kempes (WC 78): Top scorer and best player at WC ’78, Kempes caught fire as the tournament progressed, scoring 3 braces in Argentina’s last 4 matches to win the tournament. A dynamic, explosive attacker, Kempes impressed with his surging dribbles, eye for goal and irrepressible workrate.

Preben Elkjaer (WC 86): The attacking spearhead of that thrilling Danish Dynamite team, Elkjaer was both a flair player and a prototypical modern centre forward, allying a bruising physique and rampaging dribbling style with dynamic movement and a superb eye for bringing teammates into play. He belied his occasionally patchy overall record as a goalscorer to notch 4 goals in 4 games during the tournament, memorably eviscerating Uruguay with a stunning performance in Denmark’s 6-1 victory.

-----------------Team Pat---------------------------------------------Team Downcast



DOWNCAST - REMAKE OF FRANCE 58
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A striker holder of the record for most goals scored in a single WC tournament with 13 goals (also 4 assists)

FONTAINE 1958
- 1958 FIFA WC: Golden Shoe Best Forward - 21 caps: 30 Goals - Career 200 Goals/ 240 Games

Just Fontaine was the most prolific scorer in the Europe in the late 1950s. He scored four goals against former World Cup champion West Germany. He has also scored the third most goals of any player in the World Cup finals overall. Fontaine became the 2nd player after Alcides Ghiggia to score in every match of a WC. He was a classic forwardability to score from any angle, with both feet and his head. He played for Stade de Reims in their golden era alongside Raymond Kopa. Fontaine is forced to retire early at 29 y.o because of a recurring injury that effect his longevity was so short.

Henry reached his International Peak as a left wing-forward: pace, power and goals


HENRY 2000 - 2000 UEFA Euro Winner & part of the Tournament Team Best XI - Euro 2000 Final Man of the Match because Nesta, Cannavaro & co were unable to keep him under control - Career 321 Goals + 165 Assists / 695 Games - 117 caps with France: 51 Goals & 29 assists -
Henry 2000 was extremely fast and mobile. He started playing as a left-winger for Monaco and Juventus before being signed for Arsenal. His style of play is not to wait the ball in penalty box. Oppositely, He always tried to control the ball and find an occasion to make score or assist. Then he moved to Barcelona and changed position to left-wing-forward. He won the triple champs with the club in 2009.

Der Boss, The man who says NO to the Golden Team of Hungary: Man of the match in the WC Final 1954 (he scored a goal)

RAHN 1954
- International peak as a right wing-forward - 1954 FIFA WC Winner & 1954 WC Team Best XI - 40 caps with West Germany : 21 Goals
"The Boss" Helmut Rahn is one of the great legends in history of German football and the greatest German winger in history of World Cup, was the greatest German forward in the mid-50s, was sparked by the heroic antics of the German team during the 50’s. Particularly, a right-winger, Rahn showed his great performance in World Cup 1954 final, scores important twce goals and an assist help West Germany to win the game 3-2 over the apparently unbeatable Hungarian team. Rahn was notable for his mentality, team work ability and his powerful shooting. Rahn also finished in top ten Ballon'Dor in 1959. In 2004, 50 years after the Bern match, a life size statue of him was put up near Georg-Melches-Stadium.

The Ballon D'Or 1958 holder of the record for most assists in a single WC (9 assists)

KOPA 1958 - Right Attacking-Playmaking Midfielder - 1958 FIFA WC Team best 11 - Career 200 Goals/ 240 Games - 45 caps with France: 18 Goals + 20 Assists- 1958 FIFA World Cup Third Place
Raymond Kopa is the great legendary French football who is regarded as the finest playmaker in the World during the second half 1950s. Kopa was the progeny of a Polish immigrant family. He was a free-role playmaker who ran to many areas in attacking line, quick, agile and excellent in dribble combined with playmaking abilities. He played as attacking midfielder for Stade Reims in his early career during its glory years. After he with the club lost Real Madrid in European Cup final 1956, He was signed to the Santiago Bernabeu, played for them for three seasons primarily as right-winger and fortunately won European Cup all seasons. Kopa was an important key player as attacking midfielder to lead France finish third place in World Cup 1958 with his many assists to Just Fontaine who overshadowed him by scoring so many goals. Kopa left Real Madrid for financial considerations (!) to return to play for Stade Reims.

Another Collective King of the pass to support the trio

NETZER 1972 - Left-Attacking/Playmaking Midfielder

1972 European Championship Team of The Tournament
1972 Silver Ball European Footballer of The Year

2 Times German Footballer of The Year (1972, 1973)
"Karajan Of European football" was considered to be one of the greatest passers in the game's history. Iconic playmaker and is considered one of the most talented midfielders of all times, gaining a lot of attention with his long passes and pushes from deep within his own half of the pitch. Apart from his superior ball skills, his natural authority made him the undisputed leader of his team. His highlight in international club consists of UEFA runner-up with Gladbach and European Cup semi-finalist with Real Madrid. According to German footballer of the year voting, he was German midfielder of the year for three times. He was named in Bundesliga team of the season seven times.

The Brazilian Anchor who brought balance

ZITO 1962 - The guy who made the bridge between the defenders and the front 5

FIFA World Cup Winners (1958,1962) + 1962 FIFA World Cup All-Star Team
“The Manager” is one of the most successful and decorated defensive midfielders ever, was the greatest South American defensive midfielder in the first half 1960s and is the greatest defensive midfielder in history of Copa Libertadores Cup He was highly strong and tough in defensive role but rather slow. Zito was an organized midfielder, a pragmatic and claiming influence to his team and often filled with individualistic attacking talents. He was one of key players of Santos to achieve one of the most peak performance in history of South American club and played for only Santos club in his entire career. Zito was a fortunate Brazilian player to win twice World Cup as he was substituted to Dino Sani who got injury in 1958 and was almost lost his first team position to Zequinha just before the 1962 tournament.

The defence

SCHNELLINGER - World-Class full-back
World Cup Participation : 1958, 1962, 1966, 1970 (16 Games)
1966 FIFA World Cup Runner-Up +1970 FIFA World Cup Third Place
1962 FIFA World Cup All-Star Team + 1962 Bronze Ball European Footballer of The Year + 1962 German Footballer of The Year
3 Times European Defender of The Year (1962, 1963, 1964)

Karl-Heinz Schnellinger was the best defender in the World in the first half 1960s. He was a consistent world-class defender who mainly played as left-back in 4-4-2 system but he sometimes was used as sweeper for Germany which he was still rated in world-class in world cup 1970. He was noted for his superlatively positional play, tackling ability, physical power pace and his winning mentality. Moreover, Schnellinger also did offensively duty well especially his long passing. His best year was 1962 which was the only year he won 2 major individual awards. According to German Footballer of the year voting, He was German defender of the year only twice times. Schnellinger was voted in 5th, 11th and 12th Ballon'Dor between 1963 and 1965, respectively..

BLANC - Sweeper - EURO 96 BEST 11 (His prime IMO)

Nation : France, Caps : 97 Games (16 Goals)
1998 FIFA World Cup Champion + 2000 European Championship Winners
2 times UEFA Euro Best XI (1992,1996,)

Laurent Blanc was voted as the fourth greatest French player of century according to France Football’s poll. He was known as a surprisingly high-scoring defender, excellent anticipation, elegant on-the-ball skill style. He was a threat to the opposition’s goal from the air or from either foot. Blanc scored more than 133 goals in his career and is named as Inter Milan Player of The Year in 2000. Blanc was nominated in Ballon'Dor four times, finished best place at 14th in 1998.

KHURTISLAVA - CB - EURO 1972 TEAM OF THE TOURNAMENT
He was part of the USSR side that finished fourth at the 1966 FIFA World Cup, third at the 1972 Summer Olympics[2] and second in the 1972 UEFA European Championship. After the UEFA Euro 1972 along with his teammates by Soviet Union national football team — Revaz Dzodzuashvili and Evgeni Rudakov — he was included in the team of the tournament, where also were presented such great players like Franz Beckenbauer, Gerd Müller, Paul Breitner, Uli Hoeness and Günter Netzer. He was also one of the only two Georgians, alongside Alexandre Chivadze, to have captained the Soviet Union national football team. At the club level he played for FC Dynamo Tbilisi.

ANDRADE - RB - 1924 Olympics Games Best Player

World Cup Participation : 1930 (4 Games)
1930 FIFA World Cup Champion
3 Times Copa America Winners (1923, 1924, 1926)

Individual Achievement : 1926 Copa America Best Player
1930 FIFA World Cup All-Stars Team

“The Black Winder” Jose Leandro Andrade was the greatest footballer in the World during the middle 1920s, was credited with being an intelligent and honest player who never celebrated his goals. He was a football artist who could simply do anything with the ball. He was a tall guy with elastic movements, who always preferred the direct, elegant game without physical contact and was always ahead with his thoughts by several moves. He preferred to play a direct style without the physicality of many of his team mates. Andrade won his first Olympic gold medal at the 1924 Olympic football tournament in Paris. He was recognized as being the first black international football player to play Olympic football, once perform phenomenon dribbling get through seven opponents. Despite not being at his peak he managed to be one of Uruguay's best players as they won the 1930 World Cup. At the end of the tournament he was selected in the All-Star team. In 1994 he was selected by France Football as number ten in their World Cup Top-100. He was also voted 29th World’s player of century by IFFHS’s poll.

Ladislao Mazurkiewicz WC 1970 - 1970 FIFA World Cup Best Goalkeeper
Caps : 36 Games (15 Clean Sheets) + 1967 Copa America Winner + 1999 IFFHS Uruguay Goalkeeper of The Century
Ladislao Mazukiewicz is one of the best goalkeepers ever to come from the Americas. His early career with Penarol saw an impressive victory with two consecutive unbeaten seasons in 1967 and 1968. Marzurkiewicz helped the Uruguay national team to qualify to the semifinals of the 1970 World Cup. He totally kept five clean sheets in World Cup final tournament. He notably won six international games in row without concede goal between 1969 and 1970. Mazurkiewicz was voted by IFFHS’s poll 5th South American’s greatest goalkeeper of all-time and 12th World’s greatest goalkeeper of the century.


---> All the players reached their international peak in a similar role and tactical system.
FRANCE 1930 - THE FIRST FRANCE TEAM...


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...BUT FRANCE 1958 WAS THE FIRST GREAT TEAM WITH KOPA - WC 3rd PLACE -



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FRANCE 1958 WORLD CUP THIRD PLACE
Standing: Kaelbel, Penverne, Jonquet, Marcel, Remetter and Lerond.
Bended: Wisnieski, Fontaine, Kopa, Piantoni and Vincent.


This French 1958 NT was one of the most talented of the WC and in the french football history.
In the semi final, after only 30 min their best defender and one of the most talented player Robert Jonquet broke his leg in a shock with the "bull" Vava. At this time, the substitutions were not authorized, so France finish the game at 10 players. At this moment of the game, the score was 1-1 and only 2-1 for Brazil at half time.
Noone knows really what could happen if France played all the match with 11 players. One thing is sure, the Brazil had to play his best game of WC during this semi final to beat France. After that, for the third place game, France burst the WC holder West Germany 6-3
This France NT was really a top one, led by their glory legend, the old "captain" Roger Marche who held during a long time the record of caps for France (until ths 80's !).
France finish with the best goalscorer of the WC : Just Fontaine who still hold the record of goal scorind in one single WC, and the best player of that tournament Raymond Kopa.


FRANCE 1982-86 WAS THE SECOND FRANCE TEAM WITH PLATINI


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FRANCE 1994-01 WAS THE GOLDEN AGE WITH ZIDANE, HENRY, BLANC

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NO ROOM FOR AMATEURISM: MY PLAYERS HAVE THE RIGHT POSITIONONG




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WC 54 FINAL

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uruguai-19301.jpg

 
Great work guys. The write ups hold such a high quality so far. Will need to digest this and see some discussion before I even dare to vote. Downcast successfully recreated and even improved the '58 France side that was a goalmachine already. Pat on the other side has a side full of quality but I need to hear more about Platini here behind three more offensive players but he has a fantastic central midfield duo who may prove gritty enough to do well against Kopa and Netzer who are all about their beautiful football.
 
EURO 2000 - BEST HENRY MOMENTS :drool:



EURO 2000 FINAL- HENRY MAN OF THE MATCH - PLEASE OPEN THE SPOILER



HENRY WILL DO THE JOB IN TERMS OF DEFENSIVE CONTRIBUTION

 
What a fecking match this is. Platini had one of the greatest ever tournament performances in international football and here he is up against arguably the best performing duo of all time in Kopa and Fontaine.
 
What a fecking match this is. Platini had one of the greatest ever tournament performances in international football and here he is up against arguably the best performing duo of all time in Kopa and Fontaine.

I'm doing a post about them :drool:
 
What a fecking match this is. Platini had one of the greatest ever tournament performances in international football and here he is up against arguably the best performing duo of all time in Kopa and Fontaine.

Platini EURO 84: 9 goals but he was part of a front 3


280px-FRA-SPA_1984-06-27.svg.png



Platini - here - will be great as usual but will have much more defensive tasks: I mean he will score 6 goals in this draft, not 9 :D
 
All I can say about Pat is he has a great team :)
 
Platini EURO 84: 9 goals but he was part of a front 3


280px-FRA-SPA_1984-06-27.svg.png



Platini - here - will be great as usual but will have much more defensive tasks: I mean he will score 6 goals in this draft, not 9 :D

Agree with that. The entire team was built around utilizing and relying on him to score goals and here Pat already has Ghiggia/Elkjaer/Kempes as goalscoring outlets as well. So there is no way we'd see the goalscoring part of Platini to the same extent here as that would be wasting the other great players. He'll like you say take on a more defensive role as he doesn't have three players behind him doing a defensive job. I think the game would be a high scoring one though with both teams opting for something offensive overall.
 
I really like Downcast's team especially the midfield three, that is an incredible combo. My concern is that Schellinger was more of a defensive left back and not the type needed to overlap Henry
 
I really like Downcast's team especially the midfield three, that is an incredible combo. My concern is that Schellinger was more of a defensive left back and not the type needed to overlap Henry

1. Thanks :)
2. Good to know. I have watched my offensive players but not Schnellinger 66 tbh (lack of time this week). Maybe, I will update my picture and remove the arrow then.
 
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FOCUS ON A SINGLE GAME: France 6-3 West Germany
WC 1958 Game for the 3rd place

KOPA IS THE #18 AND FONTAINE THE #17


THE STYLE OF PLAY





FONTAINE SCORED 4 GOALS (KOPA 2 ASSISTS)









KOPA ALSO SCORED HERE: PASS THAT ENGENDERS A PENALTY

 
PARTNERSHIP KOPA-FONTAINE









TO BE HONEST, MY RIGHT-WINGER RAHN ALSO SCORED 1 GOAL

 
Not sure about Blanc and Khurt as a pairing. Both like to go forwards with the ball? Just worry if one of them is isolated with Elkjaer running at them, if side is caught up the pitch.
 
WC 1954 - RAHN WAS VERY PROBABLY THE BEST EUROPEAN PLAYER -

WC FINAL 1954 HE SCORED 2 GOALS


 
Not sure about Blanc and Khurt as a pairing. Both like to go forwards with the ball? Just worry if one of them is isolated with Elkjaer running at them, if side is caught up the pitch.

Well, I've always thought a defender good with the ball wasn't necessarily a defender inclined to be lenient/permissive.

Their track record speak for themselves.

Blanc 96 had exceptional passing skills: he scored a lot of goals because he was excellent on the air (set pieces) a penalty-taker.

Thuram was a CB with Parma and had to play as a RB: it simply means Blanc is - like Thuram - a great defender at all levels.

Khurt was a tough player IMO but @harms can give his opinion about khurt and say if he likes or dislikes my defence.

Blanc is not Sammer.
 
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Also, Blanc isn't a Libero but rather a sweeper.

I prepare some posts before I come back later today.
 
Kopa left Real Madrid in 1959 for financial considerations: instead of continuing with Real Madrid, he came back to France because companies offered him long-term contracts. He was the 1st sporting star from a marketing perspective.

So, he could be viewed as one of the first businessmen but my understanding financial security was a major concern at this time: from Polish origin, he worked as a child in the mines.
 
Went with an early Downcast vote here after some great presentations. Open to change but for now it just seems like he has recreated a side in a brilliant manner without a player out of order and he managed to pick up some key players like Zito who nearly is the only choice behind Netzer and Kopa. The same goes for the second inside left/right spot next to Kopa where I can only see a handful of players add quality, complementing special expertize while being a good fit. Liedholm in particular would do a great job there too as would Gren.
 
The 1st global football star is very probably Jose Leandro Andrade. A myth.

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Nicknamed the black marvel, "meravilla negra", is considered the first great colored player, and the very first real international football star.

The world knew him in the 1924 Olympics in Paris.At that time in Europe, no black footballer had already be seen. Andrade became very soon what the world of professional football would think of Pelé later in the century. During the 1920s/1930s with his exceptional class and his skilful shots he was considered absolutely the best. A very skilful player awarded by the Olympic Committee with the Olympic Cup for his fair-play.

Andrade started his career at CA Peñarol where he had to quit maybe for racism. Later on he played for Miramar Misiones, Reformes and Bella Vista. In 1924 he joined Nacional de Montevideo (105 appearances and 4 goals) playing there until 1930 when he returned to CA Peñarol, gaining the Uruguayan national title in 1932. In 1936 he played in Argentina at Atalanta, then the following year he moved to Wanderers FC in Montevideo where he ended his career. Probably forgotten and with no glory, the "black marvel" died in poverty in 1957.

- Andrade played 33 times for Uruguay scoring 1 goal

-105 matches played and 4 goals from 1924 and 1929 represented his time with Nacional (Uruguay): the club he played with most.

- With Uruguay he won all the most important football competitions: FIFA World Cup (1930), Olympic Games (1924 and 1928), Copa América (1923, 1924, 1926).

 
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Stade de Reims*. A pure crook :lol:

* Fontaine & Kopa played together in Reims



- Ghiggia is great. Good.

- Henry vs Thuram would be a superb battle even if (unplayable) Henry 2000 will tend to cut inside. I like both.

- Kempes 78 will tend to play at the heart of the game. Good news as JL Andrade is pretty versatile (he can play as a world-class DM) and mobile

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- I don't want to talk about Luis Fernandez because I dislike the man, the 'journalist', the former PSG Coach and the player he was :D.

- Lerby 1984 was a left-sided midfielder so we 'should see' Kempes as a second-striker

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To sum up my view and because I am a fundamentalist, we 'should see something like that :wenger:

--------------------- Elkjar
-------- Kempes - Platini --- Ghiggia
-- Lerby ---
------------- Fernandez

 

Cheers Annah and thanks for setting the match up.

Good luck @Pat_Mustard

I won't try to denigrate any player :)

Good luck to you too mate.

First thoughts:

1) Downcast has an excellent team, and so many of them are particularly good in the context of this draft, particularly Kopa and Fontaine. Respect :).
2) Footballuser rather than sharemytactics may have been a poor choice by me for the formation graphic, as I'm somewhat undersized in comparison to Downcast :D
 
1579465_Stade_de_Reims.jpg


Stade de Reims*. A pure crook :lol:

* Fontaine & Kopa played together in Reims



- Ghiggia is great. Good.

- Henry vs Thuram would be a superb battle even if (unplayable) Henry 2000 will tend to cut inside. I like both.

- Kempes 78 will tend to play at the heart of the game. Good news as JL Andrade is pretty versatile (he can play as a world-class DM) and mobile

300px-ARG-NED_1978-06-25.svg.png


- I don't want to talk about Luis Fernandez because I dislike the man, the 'journalist', the former PSG Coach and the player he was :D.

- Lerby 1984 was a left-sided midfielder so we 'should see' Kempes as a second-striker

1310916_Denmark.jpg



To sum up my view and because I am a fundamentalist, we 'should see something like that :wenger:

--------------------- Elkjar
-------- Kempes - Platini --- Ghiggia
-- Lerby ---
------------- Fernandez

I didn't actually know why I went for Stade Reims, but I like that I managed to play mind games :lol:. Lerby seemed to play as a left midfielder at WC '86 but he was very much a CM at Euro '84, frequently dropping deep to collect the ball from the CBs or goalkeeper. I'd have no problem with my formation being presented as a 4-2-3-1 instead, although I think its more accurate to present Platini operating in a deeper line than Kempes and Ghiggia. More on Platini incoming.
 
I didn't actually know why I went for Stade Reims, but I like that I managed to play mind games :lol:. Lerby seemed to play as a left midfielder at WC '86 but he was very much a CM at Euro '84, frequently dropping deep to collect the ball from the CBs or goalkeeper. I'd have no problem with my formation being presented as a 4-2-3-1 instead, although I think its more accurate to present Platini operating in a deeper line than Kempes and Ghiggia. More on Platini incoming.

I like that presentation. Very honest even if Platini will be be all over the place centrally like always.
 
Platini EURO 84: 9 goals but he was part of a front 3


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Platini - here - will be great as usual but will have much more defensive tasks: I mean he will score 6 goals in this draft, not 9 :D

Agree with that. The entire team was built around utilizing and relying on him to score goals and here Pat already has Ghiggia/Elkjaer/Kempes as goalscoring outlets as well. So there is no way we'd see the goalscoring part of Platini to the same extent here as that would be wasting the other great players. He'll like you say take on a more defensive role as he doesn't have three players behind him doing a defensive job. I think the game would be a high scoring one though with both teams opting for something offensive overall.

Not that either of you are exactly scathing about Platini's role here, but I would point out a few things about Platini in regards my team:

1) He put in alot of defensive work at Euro 84 anyway.



Look at how deep he drops out of possession here, and how he frequently starts a move after winning back possession himself.

2) "He was part of a front three": Well, it was called the Magic Square for a reason, and he was very much part of the midfield unit, an AM along with Giresse shielded by two deeper midfielders. We've got the two deeper midfielders in place here, and I'd argue that Kempes was at least as good at regaining possession as Giresse, probably more so.

3) He's very much the senior attacking player in the team: I'm more than happy for the goals to be spread around, but make no mistake that Platini is the main man here. Elkjaer is a terrific foil at centre forward here as he's in his element pulling defenders away and creating space, whilst Ghiggia's superb scoring streak in 1954 is a bonus rather than his core skill - he was overall much more creator than scorer. Platini starting moves and then popping up to finish them, and Kempes matching him stride for stride in our attacking thrusts, are where its at here for me.
 
I didn't actually know why I went for Stade Reims, but I like that I managed to play mind games :lol:. Lerby seemed to play as a left midfielder at WC '86 but he was very much a CM at Euro '84, frequently dropping deep to collect the ball from the CBs or goalkeeper. I'd have no problem with my formation being presented as a 4-2-3-1 instead, although I think its more accurate to present Platini operating in a deeper line than Kempes and Ghiggia. More on Platini incoming.
This is true
 
In contrast, the big tactical problem I see on the pitch is how Downcast plans to deal with Platini and Kempes. Zito is his only defensively sound and disciplined midfield player, and for all that he had a high peak I'd argue that Platini in his Euro 84 form will be too much for him to handle. Throw Kempes and his livewire surges through the middle into the picture and I'm not sure the opposition can cope.

I touched on it in the OP, but Downcast looks somewhat pedestrian when he doesn't have possession. Netzer's lack of appetite for defensive work was infamous, and Kopa doesn't seem to have any reputation for ball recovery either. Zito looks stranded here. In comparison, we have two selfless ball winners in Lerby and Fernandez, and Platini puts in more defnesive work than either Netzer or Kopa.

Henry has proven he can hold his own in pressing systems so he's not a passenger defensively, but he was never renowned for hounding the opposition out of possession like Kempes or Elkjaer were.

There's also the issue of Netzer's compatibility with another midfield playmaker, with Netzer and Overath famously unable to co-exist for West Germany. I'm not sure that Netzer and Kopa can both be expected to have a good game, and in any case fielding them both comes at a high cost when Downcast loses possession.
 
@Pat_Mustard

I like your team. For example, Ghiggia was my 2 second preference for the right-winger role.

I'm a fan of Platini and agree with you about hi impact :drool:

Let's say I try to understand the mechanics regarding your offensive strategy/midfield.
 
There's also the issue of Netzer's compatibility with another midfield playmaker, with Netzer and Overath famously unable to co-exist for West Germany. I'm not sure that Netzer and Kopa can both be expected to have a good game, and in any case fielding them both comes at a high cost when Downcast loses possession.

Good news: Overath isn't one of my players...

I understand you don't know very well Netzer: I'll make something about him then.
 
It's a tight game alright. Both have done very well to present their sides. Well done to @Downcast to go in such depth and it has been a great read so far.

I have to say from first glance I think Blank/Khurtsilava are not that good of a fit against Elkjaer and with Kempes and Platini also in the picture it could cause some trouble through the middle.

I think Schnellinger will keep Ghiggia honest as he's one of the best defensive left backs in the game and starred in the WC as well.

Think Netzer and Kopa is a bit superfluous IMO. I'd prefer a more B2B midfielder rather than two attacking midfielders in the side, especially with Rahn and Henry in the side.

On the flip side Kopa and Fontaine are a great duo and Zito at DM is always a great choice in terms of restricting a bit the Platini effect.

I've gone with Pat so far but open to consideration given how discussions go.
 
It doesn't make sense to say Kopa (right-footed playmaker) can't play with Netzer (left-footed playmaker).

If I follow your rationale, Xavi can't play with Iniesta of course.

Also, you may think Kopa can't play with Di Stefano, Gento, Rial, Puskas.

Kopa with Madrid was deployed on the right because Di Stefano was the super star. It means he is a collective player, a modulable player.

Kopa started his career with Stade de Reims as right-inside attacking/playmaking midfielder and lost the final of the European Cup against Real Madrid.

4867044.jpg



Coach: Miguel Munoz (from 1959)
Achievements: European Cup 1955,56,57,58,59,60; Finalists 62, 64
Key Players: Di Stefano, Puskas, Kopa, Gento, Santamaria, Del Sol
Star Player: Di Stefano
Formation: 3-2-2-3
 
Andrade started his career at CA Peñarol where he had to quit maybe for racism. Later on he played for Miramar Misiones, Reformes and Bella Vista
I had never heard of him at Peñarol early on. He came through the Misiones youth setup so the only option before that is maybe having a trial as a 12-13yo?

Peñarol was the railway worlers club and the first to sport black players. Isabelino Gradín from Peñarol was the first black international, prompting Chile to pull put of an international game because they wouldn't "play with animals".

What Andrade did was make it global and conquer Europe not just with his football: he is known to have danced the tango with Josephine Baker and had women swooning over him.

One day he went missing from training and Angel "The Madman" Romano volunteered to try find him. He actually had an address Andrade scribbled on a notepad in case his mate needed to find him. He was surprised to arrive at a well-appointed apartment and find him in a silk robe with a half dozen French lasses covered only in perfume.
 
Good news: Overath isn't one of my players...

I understand you don't know very well Netzer: I'll make something about him then.

It doesn't make sense to say Kopa (right-footed playmaker) can't play with Netzer (left-footed playmaker).

If I follow your rationale, Xavi can't play with Iniesta of course.

Also, you may think Kopa can't play with Di Stefano, Gento, Rial, Puskas.

Kopa with Madrid was deployed on the right because Di Stefano was the super star. It means he is a collective player, a modulable player.

Kopa started his career with Stade de Reims as right-inside attacking/playmaking midfielder and lost the final of the European Cup against Real Madrid.

4867044.jpg

I'm no expert on Netzer but I did pick him in an old Euros draft and I've watched alot of him from Euro 72. A fantastic player. Similar to Platini in some ways with his brilliance at starting moves from deep and his all-time great level of long-range passing. He was a superb dribbler too, and a big, strong bastard who could charge through opponents. That said, he was at the very least inconsistent in his defensive output, and Schon's struggle to successfully accomodate him with another midfield playmaker in Overath is well-documented:

Most of the time, the midfield duo consisted of Overath and Beckenbauer which was an unfortunate situation for another newly emerged midfield talent, Mönchengladbach’s Günter Netzer. With Overath having played so well at the 1966 World Cup, Helmut Schön preferred him over the unproved Netzer. The only time both Netzer and Overath were playing together, the result was disastrous as Germany only drew 0-0 at Albania, a result that eliminated them from the European Championship! Although Schön had reintroduced the 4-3-3 by 1968, he usually only used Netzer when Overath was injured or out of form. During the next three years, Schön only “risked” to pair Netzer and Overath once, in the other 30 games during that period, it was either one of them, but mostly Overath.

....................................
afb1f925b9.jpg


During the same time, Cologne lost its dominant position in the Bundesliga. Although they still had an above average side, the team lacked the killer instinct necessary to remain at the verz top over a longer period. This was mostly explained by the typical character of people from Cologne, a “everything-will-work-out-fine-in-the-end” attitude that oftentimes shied away from hard work. With their happy-go-lucky attitude, FC Cologne could not really compete seriously with Bayern Munich and Borussia Mönchengladbach, the two sides that emerged in the late-1960s as the two dominant forces in German club football. This lack of proper attitude of his teammates was the source of annoyance to the ambitious Overath, whose goal always was to win every game by all means, even the most unimportant friendly. It was especially bitter for him to see less talented sides like Bremen and Brunswick win the championship as a result of their better work attitude. The only trophy Cologne won in those years was the German Cup in 1968 against second division side VfL Bochum. While Cologne was always among the top clubs after the 1964 championship, the 1968-69 season proved to be a traumatic one for the club and its best player, Overath. Troubled by injuries of several regular players (among them goalgetter Johannes Löhr, who was out for almost the entire season), Cologne had to fight off relegation to the very last day. Overath himself had to fight off a severe slip of form that for a while made him lose his starting place in the national side. But just in time Overath and his teammates got back to their form of old and it was Overath that saved the club from relegation when he scored the highly important 1-0 against direct competitors Nuremberg on the last day of the season. If Cologne had been relegated, Overath would have had to face either a season of second division football or he had to join another big club, most likely Bayern Munich. Since Overath was closely linked to the city of Cologne, he would probably have opted to stay at the club even if it had been relegated.

The following season was the complete opposite. Overath was in tremendous form, he arguably never played as well as he did in 1969-70. Some even compared his performances to that of the great Alfredo di Stéfano. Overath was the heart of his club, he orchestrated the attacks, impressed with his visionary style of play, dribblings with the ball close to his left foot, then long passes sprayed across the pitch with the precision of a Swiss clockwork. His delicate left foot was at the center of attention whenever he was on the ball, playing almost every pass with the outside of his left foot, giving his passes an outstandingly subtle touch. He even used the outside of his foot for freekicks and corner kicks, giving the ball a great spin with that. His rival Günter Netzer also played a formidable season, but he found it a lot harder to adapt to the surroundings of the national team, something Overath never had any problems with. Then Netzer also had a falling out with German national team manager Helmut Schön in February 1970, Netzer even announced his retirement from the national side after he felt that he was unfairly criticised for his performance against Spain by Schön. Although they soon made up again afterwards, Netzer all the same missed the 1970 World Cup due to an injury. Thus the scene was set for Overath. Backed by his tremendous performances for Cologne, there was no doubt that he would be the main man in Germany’s midfield in Mexico. Overath played exceptionally well for Germany, becoming one of the best players of the tournament. He played a significant part in one of the most attack-minded German sides in World Cup history. After a bumpy start against minnows Morocco in the first game, Germany impressed with victories against Bulgaria (5-2), Peru (3-1) and reigning champs England (3-2 at extra-time). Then came the historic clash with Italy in the semi final at Mexico-City, which Germany lost quite unluckily 3-4. Overath himself made sure Germany would finish third with his goal against Uruguay in the third place match. In all of these games, Overath was among the best players, forming an incredibly well-tuned midfield tandem with Franz Beckenbauer. It did not come as a surprise when Overath was described as the tournament’s “Best player” by a Brazilian sports paper.

Overath continued to play at a high level for Cologne in the 1970-71 season and he succeeded Uwe Seeler as captain of the German national team, however the early 1970s proved to be a difficult time for him. Germany manager Helmut Schön could no longer afford to ignore Günter Netzer, as the playmaker of the German champions Borussia Mönchengladbach was in tremendous form during those years and enthused every football fan in Germany with his inspired style of play. With Borussia Mönchengladbach now being the best side in German club football, more of Netzer’s teammates were called up by Schön which made the environment of the national team much more welcoming to Netzer than in previous years. With Berti Vogts, Jupp Heynckes, Herbert Wimmer and Rainer Bonhof as constant fixtures in the German national side of the early 1970s, Günter Netzer found it now easier to transfuse his great club performances over to the national team. So Helmut Schön faced a real dilemma. He had two outstanding playmakers available, one who had already proven his worth in two World Cups, and one who was the all-conquering, bright-shining star of the Bundesliga. Schön was certain that it should be possible to create a system in which both playmakers could plaz alongside each other, his hope also being spurred by the fact that Overath and Netzer were good friends outside of the pitch that had a good understanding. Helmut Schön arguably wanted to avoid a situation like in Italy where Valcareggi designed a job-sharing program between Sandro Mazzola and Gianni Rivera. By mid-November 1970 the time had come to once again try the experiment of having two classic playmakers in the same side. This experiment was only made possible due to Schön’s decision to move Beckenbauer out of the midfield back to his precious sweeper position which he always longed to play in. Germany played two games on the Balkans, the first one against Yugoslavia was lost 0-2 and neither Netzer nor Overath played particularly well. For the game against Greece four days later, Schön decided that he needed Beckenbauer in midfield, together with Netzer and Overath. After 36 minutes Overath had to leave the pitch due to an injury, but up to that point the new midfield had blend in quite well. Germany won 3-1, with Netzer and Beckenbauer both scoring a goal.

It was Netzer’s best game for Germany up to that point. Pleased with the outcome, Helmut Schön repeated the Beckenbauer-Netzer-Overath midfield combination for the next game, a Euro qualifier away in Albania. Netzer again impressed while Overath played average. Overath missed the next game due to an injury, the important away Euro qualifer at Turkey. Netzer was again the best player on the pitch and it probably dawned upon Helmut Schön that it was time to to give Netzer full command of the midfield. However Overath was still the captain of the national team and played very well for his club thus he could not just drop him. Thus in the next game, the return leg against Albania, Overath and Netzer were again playing together. Overath knew that it would become harder and harder for him to perform well in the national team, as there were now up to eight players from Borussia Mönchengladbach featured in the Germany roster. No surprise, Netzer continued to blossom under these circumstances, slowly but surely becoming the dominating player in Germany’s team. Against Albania, Schön experimented with a 4-2-4 formation, the midfield consisting of Netzer and Wimmer with Overath having to act as one of the forwards. This new role did not suit Overath at all and being a sensitive character, he became more and more unsure of his position in Schön’s team. In late-June 1971, Germany went to a tour of Scandinavia with three games. In all three games Overath and Netzer played together in midfield, but this was to be the last time Schön tried to play with the two playmakers for almost three years. The midfield of Borussia Mönchengladbach was simply in better form than that of any other German club and during the next 18 months, Netzer would be the unrivalled boss of the German midfield. In the coming season, Overath was plagued by a seriers of minor injuries but in March 1972 he suffered a more severe groin injurz which had to be operated and that put Overath out of action for some months. The last game Overath would be playing for Germany was in the disappointing 0-0 draw at home against Poland which Netzer had missed. Under Netzer’s guidance, Germany had won impressively in Poland with 3-1 and the public opinion was now firmly against Overath. Overath was to miss the next six games and thus also was not part of the 1972 European Championship winning side that impressed all of Europe in spring and summer of 1972. During Overath’s absense, the German national team had become a perfect symbiosis of Bayern Munich and Borussia Mönchengladbach, only two players were not part of these two clubs. Netzer had now become the face of German football (together with Beckenbauer) in a way Overath never had managed to. This was a very depressing phase for Overath, as his rival Netzer was getting all kinds of laurels for his outstanding performances while Overath was almost forgotten. A very bitter experience. At the end of 1972, it looked as if Netzer would remain Germany’s #10 for many years, but fate was now turning against Netzer. It was now the Gladbach playmaker that was more and more troubled by minor injuries and during all of 1973, Netzer would only be able to play one international game for Germany out of ten. Now Helmut Schön was forced to call up Overath once again, who himself was in no good form, but since he needed a playmaker for his side, there was no other option than Overath. However the football year 1973 started disastrously for Germany. In February, with Overath at the helm, Germany lost to Argentina in Munich with 2-3 (after having been down 0-3!). The media and fans were of course shocked and furious after that out-of-the-question performance. With Overath having made his comeback after an absense of over a year, the scapegoat was easy to pick. To the sensitive Overath, this was a disastrous development. Although he was back in spotlight much sooner than he ever expected, he now had to face being booed and whistled whenever one of his passes didn’t reach his man. Soon Overath was already whistled when his name mentioned over the speakers before the game even had started! Quite a hostile enrivonment, especially since Germany kept on struggling in all of their games in spring and summer 1973. The contrast to 1972 was very striking.

Now, Overath and Kopa are different players but I'm not sure that the outcome would be different. Kopa did play with other dominant playmakers at Real Madrid but from everything I've read he was rather marginalised and didn't consistently hit his WC 58 form for Madrid.
 
I'm no expert on Netzer but I did pick him in an old Euros draft and I've watched alot of him from Euro 72. A fantastic player. Similar to Platini in some ways with his brilliance at starting moves from deep and his all-time great level of long-range passing. He was a superb dribbler too, and a big, strong bastard who could charge through opponents. That said, he was at the very least inconsistent in his defensive output, and Schon's struggle to successfully accomodate him with another midfield playmaker in Overath is well-documented:

Most of the time, the midfield duo consisted of Overath and Beckenbauer which was an unfortunate situation for another newly emerged midfield talent, Mönchengladbach’s Günter Netzer. With Overath having played so well at the 1966 World Cup, Helmut Schön preferred him over the unproved Netzer. The only time both Netzer and Overath were playing together, the result was disastrous as Germany only drew 0-0 at Albania, a result that eliminated them from the European Championship! Although Schön had reintroduced the 4-3-3 by 1968, he usually only used Netzer when Overath was injured or out of form. During the next three years, Schön only “risked” to pair Netzer and Overath once, in the other 30 games during that period, it was either one of them, but mostly Overath.

....................................
afb1f925b9.jpg


During the same time, Cologne lost its dominant position in the Bundesliga. Although they still had an above average side, the team lacked the killer instinct necessary to remain at the verz top over a longer period. This was mostly explained by the typical character of people from Cologne, a “everything-will-work-out-fine-in-the-end” attitude that oftentimes shied away from hard work. With their happy-go-lucky attitude, FC Cologne could not really compete seriously with Bayern Munich and Borussia Mönchengladbach, the two sides that emerged in the late-1960s as the two dominant forces in German club football. This lack of proper attitude of his teammates was the source of annoyance to the ambitious Overath, whose goal always was to win every game by all means, even the most unimportant friendly. It was especially bitter for him to see less talented sides like Bremen and Brunswick win the championship as a result of their better work attitude. The only trophy Cologne won in those years was the German Cup in 1968 against second division side VfL Bochum. While Cologne was always among the top clubs after the 1964 championship, the 1968-69 season proved to be a traumatic one for the club and its best player, Overath. Troubled by injuries of several regular players (among them goalgetter Johannes Löhr, who was out for almost the entire season), Cologne had to fight off relegation to the very last day. Overath himself had to fight off a severe slip of form that for a while made him lose his starting place in the national side. But just in time Overath and his teammates got back to their form of old and it was Overath that saved the club from relegation when he scored the highly important 1-0 against direct competitors Nuremberg on the last day of the season. If Cologne had been relegated, Overath would have had to face either a season of second division football or he had to join another big club, most likely Bayern Munich. Since Overath was closely linked to the city of Cologne, he would probably have opted to stay at the club even if it had been relegated.

The following season was the complete opposite. Overath was in tremendous form, he arguably never played as well as he did in 1969-70. Some even compared his performances to that of the great Alfredo di Stéfano. Overath was the heart of his club, he orchestrated the attacks, impressed with his visionary style of play, dribblings with the ball close to his left foot, then long passes sprayed across the pitch with the precision of a Swiss clockwork. His delicate left foot was at the center of attention whenever he was on the ball, playing almost every pass with the outside of his left foot, giving his passes an outstandingly subtle touch. He even used the outside of his foot for freekicks and corner kicks, giving the ball a great spin with that. His rival Günter Netzer also played a formidable season, but he found it a lot harder to adapt to the surroundings of the national team, something Overath never had any problems with. Then Netzer also had a falling out with German national team manager Helmut Schön in February 1970, Netzer even announced his retirement from the national side after he felt that he was unfairly criticised for his performance against Spain by Schön. Although they soon made up again afterwards, Netzer all the same missed the 1970 World Cup due to an injury. Thus the scene was set for Overath. Backed by his tremendous performances for Cologne, there was no doubt that he would be the main man in Germany’s midfield in Mexico. Overath played exceptionally well for Germany, becoming one of the best players of the tournament. He played a significant part in one of the most attack-minded German sides in World Cup history. After a bumpy start against minnows Morocco in the first game, Germany impressed with victories against Bulgaria (5-2), Peru (3-1) and reigning champs England (3-2 at extra-time). Then came the historic clash with Italy in the semi final at Mexico-City, which Germany lost quite unluckily 3-4. Overath himself made sure Germany would finish third with his goal against Uruguay in the third place match. In all of these games, Overath was among the best players, forming an incredibly well-tuned midfield tandem with Franz Beckenbauer. It did not come as a surprise when Overath was described as the tournament’s “Best player” by a Brazilian sports paper.

Overath continued to play at a high level for Cologne in the 1970-71 season and he succeeded Uwe Seeler as captain of the German national team, however the early 1970s proved to be a difficult time for him. Germany manager Helmut Schön could no longer afford to ignore Günter Netzer, as the playmaker of the German champions Borussia Mönchengladbach was in tremendous form during those years and enthused every football fan in Germany with his inspired style of play. With Borussia Mönchengladbach now being the best side in German club football, more of Netzer’s teammates were called up by Schön which made the environment of the national team much more welcoming to Netzer than in previous years. With Berti Vogts, Jupp Heynckes, Herbert Wimmer and Rainer Bonhof as constant fixtures in the German national side of the early 1970s, Günter Netzer found it now easier to transfuse his great club performances over to the national team. So Helmut Schön faced a real dilemma. He had two outstanding playmakers available, one who had already proven his worth in two World Cups, and one who was the all-conquering, bright-shining star of the Bundesliga. Schön was certain that it should be possible to create a system in which both playmakers could plaz alongside each other, his hope also being spurred by the fact that Overath and Netzer were good friends outside of the pitch that had a good understanding. Helmut Schön arguably wanted to avoid a situation like in Italy where Valcareggi designed a job-sharing program between Sandro Mazzola and Gianni Rivera. By mid-November 1970 the time had come to once again try the experiment of having two classic playmakers in the same side. This experiment was only made possible due to Schön’s decision to move Beckenbauer out of the midfield back to his precious sweeper position which he always longed to play in. Germany played two games on the Balkans, the first one against Yugoslavia was lost 0-2 and neither Netzer nor Overath played particularly well. For the game against Greece four days later, Schön decided that he needed Beckenbauer in midfield, together with Netzer and Overath. After 36 minutes Overath had to leave the pitch due to an injury, but up to that point the new midfield had blend in quite well. Germany won 3-1, with Netzer and Beckenbauer both scoring a goal.

It was Netzer’s best game for Germany up to that point. Pleased with the outcome, Helmut Schön repeated the Beckenbauer-Netzer-Overath midfield combination for the next game, a Euro qualifier away in Albania. Netzer again impressed while Overath played average. Overath missed the next game due to an injury, the important away Euro qualifer at Turkey. Netzer was again the best player on the pitch and it probably dawned upon Helmut Schön that it was time to to give Netzer full command of the midfield. However Overath was still the captain of the national team and played very well for his club thus he could not just drop him. Thus in the next game, the return leg against Albania, Overath and Netzer were again playing together. Overath knew that it would become harder and harder for him to perform well in the national team, as there were now up to eight players from Borussia Mönchengladbach featured in the Germany roster. No surprise, Netzer continued to blossom under these circumstances, slowly but surely becoming the dominating player in Germany’s team. Against Albania, Schön experimented with a 4-2-4 formation, the midfield consisting of Netzer and Wimmer with Overath having to act as one of the forwards. This new role did not suit Overath at all and being a sensitive character, he became more and more unsure of his position in Schön’s team. In late-June 1971, Germany went to a tour of Scandinavia with three games. In all three games Overath and Netzer played together in midfield, but this was to be the last time Schön tried to play with the two playmakers for almost three years. The midfield of Borussia Mönchengladbach was simply in better form than that of any other German club and during the next 18 months, Netzer would be the unrivalled boss of the German midfield. In the coming season, Overath was plagued by a seriers of minor injuries but in March 1972 he suffered a more severe groin injurz which had to be operated and that put Overath out of action for some months. The last game Overath would be playing for Germany was in the disappointing 0-0 draw at home against Poland which Netzer had missed. Under Netzer’s guidance, Germany had won impressively in Poland with 3-1 and the public opinion was now firmly against Overath. Overath was to miss the next six games and thus also was not part of the 1972 European Championship winning side that impressed all of Europe in spring and summer of 1972. During Overath’s absense, the German national team had become a perfect symbiosis of Bayern Munich and Borussia Mönchengladbach, only two players were not part of these two clubs. Netzer had now become the face of German football (together with Beckenbauer) in a way Overath never had managed to. This was a very depressing phase for Overath, as his rival Netzer was getting all kinds of laurels for his outstanding performances while Overath was almost forgotten. A very bitter experience. At the end of 1972, it looked as if Netzer would remain Germany’s #10 for many years, but fate was now turning against Netzer. It was now the Gladbach playmaker that was more and more troubled by minor injuries and during all of 1973, Netzer would only be able to play one international game for Germany out of ten. Now Helmut Schön was forced to call up Overath once again, who himself was in no good form, but since he needed a playmaker for his side, there was no other option than Overath. However the football year 1973 started disastrously for Germany. In February, with Overath at the helm, Germany lost to Argentina in Munich with 2-3 (after having been down 0-3!). The media and fans were of course shocked and furious after that out-of-the-question performance. With Overath having made his comeback after an absense of over a year, the scapegoat was easy to pick. To the sensitive Overath, this was a disastrous development. Although he was back in spotlight much sooner than he ever expected, he now had to face being booed and whistled whenever one of his passes didn’t reach his man. Soon Overath was already whistled when his name mentioned over the speakers before the game even had started! Quite a hostile enrivonment, especially since Germany kept on struggling in all of their games in spring and summer 1973. The contrast to 1972 was very striking.

Now, Overath and Kopa are different players but I'm not sure that the outcome would be different. Kopa did play with other dominant playmakers at Real Madrid but from everything I've read he was rather marginalised and didn't consistently hit his WC 58 form for Madrid.

Your imagination doesn't match with the reality.


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