P.Neville and Brown are fecking rubbish

Legend12

Guest
Neville hasnt a clue what was he at for the second goal.

himself and brown should be sold during the summer

why didnt ferguson bring on Irwin instead of Neville he would have been more solid

At least he can play the game.
 
Originally posted by Legend12:
<strong>Neville hasnt a clue what was he at for the second goal.

himself and brown should be sold during the summer

why didnt ferguson bring on Irwin instead of Neville he would have been more solid

At least he can play the game.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Couldn't agree more about Irwin should have come on instead of P. Neville.
P. Neville is Uniteds worst player and will be sold this summer. He's not even worth having as a squad player. United could easily pick up a £2mill pound player that would perform 200% better than P. Neville and that's with one leg in plaster and both arms amputated.

Fergie sell the b***ard.
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both you cnuts are unbiased, aren't you.
 
hey guys look.....some imbecile's actually NOT knocking Veron...he's knocking Phil and Wes...how refreshing....which rock do these buggers crawl out of eh?! sigh....
 
Originally posted by jedi master yoda:
<strong>hey guys look.....some imbecile's actually NOT knocking Veron...he's knocking Phil and Wes...how refreshing....which rock do these buggers crawl out of eh?! sigh....</strong><hr></blockquote>

There is a valid point there under the not so well hidden bias', i.e. Phil & Wes aren't good enough to hack it at this level. Phil we knew about, but for Wes this was supposed to be the stage where he would prove his detractors wrong, and well, for me, he was our biggest liability last night. Only hope Ronnie's back for next week.
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Originally posted by jamesblonde:
<strong>

There is a valid point there under the not so well hidden bias', i.e. Phil & Wes aren't good enough to hack it at this level. Phil we knew about, but for Wes this was supposed to be the stage where he would prove his detractors wrong, and well, for me, he was our biggest liability last night. Only hope Ronnie's back for next week.</strong><hr></blockquote>


what???


wes had a good game yesterday....
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Brown for me was no better or worse than any other defender last night. None of them had enough protection by the midfield, and the whole team played too deep and didn't pressure their players enough. To cast final judgement on players on the basis of last night's match is crazy. Giggs was very poor last night, should we sell him?
 
Originally posted by jamesblonde:
<strong>

There is a valid point there under the not so well hidden bias', i.e. Phil & Wes aren't good enough to hack it at this level. Phil we knew about, but for Wes this was supposed to be the stage where he would prove his detractors wrong, and well, for me, he was our biggest liability last night. Only hope Ronnie's back for next week.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Phil's ability or lack of first class ability is well known.

Brown is an enigma as on one hand, he's got some spare years for him to mature his tactical play and yet I somehow doubt he has the necessary mental strength to perform under pressure and that's something that doesn't change with years of experience - you either have it or you don't and right now, he doesn't have it.
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Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>Brown for me was no better or worse than any other defender last night. None of them had enough protection by the midfield, and the whole team played too deep and didn't pressure their players enough. To cast final judgement on players on the basis of last night's match is crazy. Giggs was very poor last night, should we sell him?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Agree with your assesment - I made more or less the same point in the Blanc is crap thread (the CAPS one...) - but I agree that Denis Irwin should have got the nod. I'd rather have a slow defender with a good defensive brain - than Philo
on steroids...
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The defence did not play well because they did not have the confidence in Barthez. The Barthez that played against Chelsea came out to protect his defenders by being commanding in the box. Something was wrong against Bayer. Another point was the midfield combination of Scholes and Veron is not suitable. They are the same type of player only that when playing against tough tackling sides, Scholes is more suitable. Playing one of them as the outer mid-fielder will make them unhappy as they will somehow or rather drift into the centre. P.Neville has not been playing regularly and needed some time to get into match fitness. Playing Irwin will not be any better as his lack of speed will be disadvantageous to the team. AF and his coaching staff has given too much respect to the Bayer team. An outright 4-4-2 with emphasis on wing play by Giggs would be more useful than relying on counter attacks. Gerrard Houllier has given the wrong advice as counter attacking is not suitable for United as our defence is not as consistent as the Liverfools. Hopefully with the return of Keane will encourage the rest of the players to put on the best performance of the season.
 
1. Phil Neville needs several matches to hit tolp form. Since injury he had had only 2. Why on Earth did Fergie put him on? O'shea would have been better.
2.Wes Brown had a good game! Phil Neville caused all our goals! feck anyone who thinks otherwise!!! :mad:
3. Scholes was a shit yesterday. He gave Veron no support what so ever in central midfield. Forcing Ole to support Veron leaving Van to drift wide. Especially since Scholes lack of support resulted in the below par Giggs never getting into the match!!
4. On Tuesday,With Keane back he should partner Veron in attacking midfield. Giggs should go back to the left and Scholes should either play wide right or be dropped for Solksjaer. Wes should go to right back and either O'shea or Johnsen should replce him in the middle.
 
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
jedi master beginning to crack up here.....ohhh you guys are the absolute best....one joker says wes brown had a shite game, another says we have 2 barthezs' and yet another says we should have played o'shea instead of phil....what bloody pills are you blokes on eh <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> just can't stop laughing....at this rate koptalk looks like a bloody institution!!! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> get this you clowns....IT WAS AN OFF DAY FOR THE WHOLE BLOODY TEAM, WE DESERVED SHITE AND WE GOT SO BLOODY LUCKY TO ESCAPE WITH SOMETHING SLIGHTLY BETTER!!!! what a bunch of pre-pubescent jokers we have here..... <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
 
Originally posted by jedi master yoda:
<strong> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
jedi master beginning to crack up here.....ohhh you guys are the absolute best....one joker says wes brown had a shite game, another says we have 2 barthezs' and yet another says we should have played o'shea instead of phil....what bloody pills are you blokes on eh <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> just can't stop laughing....at this rate koptalk looks like a bloody institution!!! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> get this you clowns....IT WAS AN OFF DAY FOR THE WHOLE BLOODY TEAM, WE DESERVED SHITE AND WE GOT SO BLOODY LUCKY TO ESCAPE WITH SOMETHING SLIGHTLY BETTER!!!! what a bunch of pre-pubescent jokers we have here..... <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>


Nobody in this thread suggested O'Shea should have played for Phil - I agreed that Irwin should have played instead of Phil - you may continue your laughing...

BTW - turned from the force have you? Wary should you be of anger, for only to the dark side can it take you.


;)
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Oops - didn't see kemo's post. He's batshit anyway, can't even make his mind up - he laughed at me a while back for suggesting Ireland could beat Germany, and more recently he suggested that we have enough to take them...

<img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />
 
ahhh jedi passiveman....wise it is not to question 846 year old jedi master hmmm....be wary of happenings around you, you must, hmmmm....anger has not, jedi master....just can't stop the laughing tho...are these blokes for real anyways?!?!? <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
 
irwin is not a right back. phil seemed like a decent replacement. and he didn't not play bad. the defense was directly at fault for any of the goals. the fact that bayer had so much possession was the problem.
 
Originally posted by jedi master yoda:
<strong>are these blokes for real anyways?!?!? <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

i hear there are alot of kids on this board. i'm not anyone on this thread is, but i wouldn't be surprised if we had some people around who just don't know what they are talking about...
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Oh Manchester is full of bakes
Oh Manchester is full of bakes
It's full of bakes, plums and Marys
Oh Manchester is full of bakes

You know, whenever you come onto Redcafe you can always be sure that there are going to be at least three clueless muppets posting about a subject that they clearly know very little about, i.e. United.

You are disgrace.

If you spoke the utter bollocks at the ground that you speak on here you would have at least 3/4 of the ground laughing their sides off at you.

Nobody forces you to watch our rabble of a team play, but instead of slagging the shirts constantly, get behind the team you fickle bastards.

Alternatively, piss of to Highbury, you will not be missed


:mad: :mad: :mad:
 
Originally posted by farawaylands:
<strong>irwin is not a right back. phil seemed like a decent replacement. and he didn't not play bad. the defense was directly at fault for any of the goals. the fact that bayer had so much possession was the problem.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Irwin has played at right back many times, and Phil was culpable for letting Ze Roberto get to the byline on more than one occasion. I agree that Bayer's possesion was the primary problem - just think Denis should've got the nod.
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Originally posted by barca1999:
<strong>Oh Manchester is full of bakes
Oh Manchester is full of bakes
It's full of bakes, plums and Marys
Oh Manchester is full of bakes

You know, whenever you come onto Redcafe you can always be sure that there are going to be at least three clueless muppets posting about a subject that they clearly know very little about, i.e. United.

You are disgrace.

If you spoke the utter bollocks at the ground that you speak on here you would have at least 3/4 of the ground laughing their sides off at you.

Nobody forces you to watch our rabble of a team play, but instead of slagging the shirts constantly, get behind the team you fickle bastards.

Alternatively, piss of to Highbury, you will not be missed


:mad: :mad: :mad: </strong><hr></blockquote>


Who are you on about? If that's directed at me you can go feck yourself...
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Originally posted by passiveman:
<strong>


Who are you on about? If that's directed at me you can go feck yourself...</strong><hr></blockquote>

My sentiments exactly.
Blind loyalty leads to no sychophantic rablings, when real discussion and apportioning of blame is required :rolleyes:

If you had to put blame on anybody in defense last night (and Fergie said they were "nervous" -if it wasn't directed, then I had a target in mind), it was Brown for not keeping hold of Basturk. He managed to hold the ball up brilliantly to allow their midfield to keep possession for so long. Giggsy let us down badly on that count (see other thread).

Which brings me back to the point made about calling people idiots and assuming we're all 10 year old kids bashing for bashing sake:
a discussion about Brown (& P Neville) being crap is with merit, as it gives people a chance to vent both their unthought and though views, with a resultant discourse that should enlighten both participants and readers alike.

So keep the vitriole to a minimum, please.
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As someone else suggested Phil Neville needs a run in the side to get up to form. You;d play cack too if you were in and out of the side into every posistion bar goalkeeper.
Phil was great early in the season when he played steadily at rightback. Even chipped in with a couple of good goals, something our fullbacks arent renowned for.
Wes Brown? the jury is still out.
 
I don't know what it is, maybe it's just me. Why is it that when we draw/lose a game, somehow, someone get's blamed for it? I thought football was a team game consisting of 11 players?? I was so sick of reading the posts in this thread that I had to leave this forum.

Anyway, if you guys don't like the players in the team, then why are you here??? Support the team in it's entirety (WIN, LOOSE or DRAW) and not put blames on anyone. For all those who gives shit to the players, you seriously think for ONE SECOND that they want to draw/loose games? I'm no psychic, but I believe that they want to WIN games more than anyone of us can imagine.

Anyway, I know this is hard for some of you, but why don't we cool it with the critism and get behind the team for the 2nd leg in Germany?
 
Originally posted by quickshot:
<strong>I don't know what it is, maybe it's just me. Why is it that when we draw/lose a game, somehow, someone get's blamed for it? I thought football was a team game consisting of 11 players?? I was so sick of reading the posts in this thread that I had to leave this forum.

Anyway, if you guys don't like the players in the team, then why are you here??? Support the team in it's entirety (WIN, LOOSE or DRAW) and not put blames on anyone. For all those who gives shit to the players, you seriously think for ONE SECOND that they want to draw/loose games? I'm no psychic, but I believe that they want to WIN games more than anyone of us can imagine.

Anyway, I know this is hard for some of you, but why don't we cool it with the critism and get behind the team for the 2nd leg in Germany?</strong><hr></blockquote>
It is only by learning from failures that great teams are formed...
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I'm sorry , I missed the point...if this site isn't about discussing the merits of the team and the players - past, present and future - then what is it for ? (Can i order books here or bid for a trapeze ??)

Some of the criticism on these threads over the last 24 hours has been harsh, but we are equally ready to praise. We know that the whole season hinges on next Tuesday's game, and a little bit of heat in the debate is OK.
 
Originally posted by jamesblonde:
<strong>

My sentiments exactly.
Blind loyalty leads to no sychophantic rablings, when real discussion and apportioning of blame is required :rolleyes:

Which brings me back to the point made about calling people idiots and assuming we're all 10 year old kids bashing for bashing sake:
a discussion about Brown (& P Neville) being crap is with merit, as it gives people a chance to vent both their unthought and though views, with a resultant discourse that should enlighten both participants and readers alike.

So keep the vitriole to a minimum, please.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I hate it when 'fans' need a scapegoat.. Wes played well yesterday only a complete fool would think otherwise...


please explain to me why you think he played badly?
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<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> deary me it's very embarrasing, and people wonder why MUFC fans have a bad reputation, glorhunting part-time cockneys isn't it? :confused:

The favourite phrase seems to be on here "well we are entitled to voice our opinion" and that may well be so, but apparently, disagree with the bakes and you are told to "feck yourself", how hurtful.

Nobody would care if you said something like so and so was caught out of position last night, he should have being doing this, this and this, but instead it's "so and so is shite", a red calling one of their players shite.... it's just not done.

If you were to say something like that at the stadium you would be likely to get a slap.

The word fickle comes to mind.

Not one player in the team is good enough for these hangers-on, although if they were to have a good game next week they'd be licking their feet.

Your clueless comments are an embarrassment to the majority of decent (and non-spoilt) United fans, bugger off to Arsenal and then maybe you won't complain as much.
 
Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

I hate it when 'fans' need a scapegoat.. Wes played well yesterday only a complete fool would think otherwise...


please explain to me why you think he played badly?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Firstly I agree Brown Should not and will not be carted off, but i must say Did see Basturk Beat him easy once and Blanc I think had to come across to cover, the other time was when Ballack waltzed around himwith a shimmy and a nutmeg (I think) and then Silvestre saved him. Brown will be a very very good centre half, but IMO he needs more experiance, and being out for long stetches has helped him, both in this respect, and with his confidence in Big European games where he always looks a bit edgy. We have needed another experianced Center-half all season with Ronny out for so long. I just hope Ronny makes it for Tues
<img src="graemlins/nervous.gif" border="0" alt="[Nervous]" />

As for P Neville, I have to say I really dont know, he seems to lack confidence, touch, passing, crossing and pace. All of which when I first ssaw him play for United he had, in fact I was sure he was gonna turn out ace for us. It seems that only after an extended run in the team , earlier this season does he seem to start playing resonably well,and soon as he is out for a while, it is all gone. If anything I think he needs a loan spell somewhere with regular football. Somethings gone wrong somewhere.

If anyone remebers that tournament a few years ago with France and Brazil that we were in Phill Played on the left really well. So its in there somewhere, hope some one OT can find it.
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Originally posted by barca1999:
<strong>Nobody would care if you said something like so and so was caught out of position last night.</strong><hr></blockquote>

JSV was out of position last night

He was on the pitch instead of the bench

Better?
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Originally posted by Stanley Road:
<strong>

JSV was out of position last night

He was on the pitch instead of the bench

Better?</strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
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Originally posted by Stanley Road:
<strong>

JSV was out of position last night

He was on the pitch instead of the bench

Better?</strong><hr></blockquote>


<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
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Originally posted by Legend12:
<strong>Neville hasnt a clue what was he at for the second goal.

himself and brown should be sold during the summer

why didnt ferguson bring on Irwin instead of Neville he would have been more solid

At least he can play the game.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Just bringing this up as a reminder of what the thread was about. It wasn't about constructive criticism. I mean its easy to say Phil isn't the best defender in the world, if he was then he'd be an England certainty, and a first choice player for us. Fine. So what. He's better than countless thousands of other footballers. He's played for us since he was a kid, gives his all and deserves some respect. Brown is a kid who has been very unlucky with injuries, has shown great character to come back from them, always looks very composed and probably would have been in the England squad if he hadn't got injured. He is obviously a very good player who can only improve. Sure, he isn't very aggressive, and sometimes seems to lack match experience and judgement - defenders take time (and games) to ripen. I have no problem with admitting those faults of his.

But to say they are fecking rubbish and should be sold in the summer, as your 13th post on a United forum indicates that you are either a windup, a kid, immature or a twat. If you really love and understand United, and football, then you just wouldn't say something that extreme.
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Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
Just bringing this up as a reminder of what the thread was about. It wasn't about constructive criticism. I mean its easy to say Phil isn't the best defender in the world, if he was then he'd be an England certainty, and a first choice player for us. Fine. So what. He's better than countless thousands of other footballers. He's played for us since he was a kid, gives his all and deserves some respect. Brown is a kid who has been very unlucky with injuries, has shown great character to come back from them, always looks very composed and probably would have been in the England squad if he hadn't got injured. He is obviously a very good player who can only improve. Sure, he isn't very aggressive, and sometimes seems to lack match experience and judgement - defenders take time (and games) to ripen. I have no problem with admitting those faults of his.

But to say they are fecking rubbish and should be sold in the summer, as your 13th post on a United forum indicates that you are either a windup, a kid, immature or a twat. If you really love and understand United, and football, then you just wouldn't say something that extreme.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Excellent post!, hats off to you!
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Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
But to say they are fecking rubbish and should be sold in the summer, as your 13th post on a United forum indicates that you are either a windup, a kid, immature or a twat. If you really love and understand United, and football, then you just wouldn't say something that extreme.</strong><hr></blockquote>

But when you see the quality of the other 12 posts you know you have to take him seriously Neil. Try this one, his third post (although almost identical to his first and so good he felt the need to give it it's own thread) <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" />

Originally posted by Legend12:Beckham should be sold

<strong>Becasuse he is fair bad and all he wants is money</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree with you, he's a bad wind up.
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<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> I just looked at those posts, and you are right, a very poor windup, just hadn't noticed him before because he's not as prolific as the others.
 
Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
Just bringing this up as a reminder of what the thread was about. It wasn't about constructive criticism. I mean its easy to say Phil isn't the best defender in the world, if he was then he'd be an England certainty, and a first choice player for us. Fine. So what. He's better than countless thousands of other footballers. He's played for us since he was a kid, gives his all and deserves some respect. Brown is a kid who has been very unlucky with injuries, has shown great character to come back from them, always looks very composed and probably would have been in the England squad if he hadn't got injured. He is obviously a very good player who can only improve. Sure, he isn't very aggressive, and sometimes seems to lack match experience and judgement - defenders take time (and games) to ripen. I have no problem with admitting those faults of his.

But to say they are fecking rubbish and should be sold in the summer, as your 13th post on a United forum indicates that you are either a windup, a kid, immature or a twat. If you really love and understand United, and football, then you just wouldn't say something that extreme.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You can love united all you want but that wont change the fact the Phil Neville isnt good enough and neither is wes brown.

The defence is extermely shakey at the best of times but when the two of them are in it its a recipe for disaster

And thats what happened they were all over the place!
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Just to dispute that some of us are kids as suggested by someone, I wish to let him know that I have supported United since 1969 and have been watching most of their games on TV. I believed that we have a large following here and United being the most popular were always on TV. Being someone who had played the game competitively and had done some coaching, I feel that I am in a position to "notice" some of the tactical mistakes and non performances by the United team. Like I said, Barthez was just not himself and as reported, he has some kind of rib injury. He might have injured himself before the game and that might have been the reason for his uninspiring performance. Until a new formation is thought out, Veron and Scholes will not be fully effective if both were to be used in midfield. It seems that United have 4 excellent players vying for 2 central mid-field places.
 
Originally posted by Tonjo:
<strong>Just to dispute that some of us are kids as suggested by someone, I wish to let him know that I have supported United since 1969 and have been watching most of their games on TV. I believed that we have a large following here and United being the most popular were always on TV. Being someone who had played the game competitively and had done some coaching, I feel that I am in a position to "notice" some of the tactical mistakes and non performances by the United team. Like I said, Barthez was just not himself and as reported, he has some kind of rib injury. He might have injured himself before the game and that might have been the reason for his uninspiring performance. Until a new formation is thought out, Veron and Scholes will not be fully effective if both were to be used in midfield. It seems that United have 4 excellent players vying for 2 central mid-field places.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Good post, and I have no problem with discernment - it shows maturity. I do have a problem with people rashly abusing our players due to one bad game, it shows no maturity or discernment.
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