Our Record with Anthony Taylor

SER19

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Before people turn this into a post match discussion, please recognise this is related to the last few seasons. I genuinely wonder if this is a statistical outlier, or is there a top club in England with a comparatively bad record under a referee?

We have now won just 2 of our last 11 games with Taylor.

He has never shown an opposition player a red card, and has awarded United DOUBLE the number of yellows.

If you look to big calls, he has made some of the worst decisions in recent memory including the terrible handball by Middlesbrough at Old Trafford, the PGMOL apology forcing allowing of Villa free kick last season. Today, he had no hesitation awarding a penalty that was overturned.

If you look at small decisions, taking any 10 minute segment of his games shows the difference in the small calls that dictate the flow of a game. Today for example, Arsenal committed at least two fouls leading to their corner (not to mention a blatant foul on evans.) but look at the fouls he gave against our attackers in the minutes prior to it. I genuinely cant see any difference.

People often make too much of a fuss over big calls, which taylor almost always gets wrong against us, but for me the most impactful way a ref dictates a game is the 50/50s. The small calls, the players left playing on yellows for extended spells, the advantages given or not given.

It isn't normal for a club of Uniteds size to have such a terrible win percentage over that length of time. That run includes home games against southampton, middlesbrough, newcastle and forest so can't even be put down to being skewed by fixtures.

In light of Mike Dean confirming many people's suspicions that these guys are simply for too emotionally driven for the job they do, I don't think I've ever been more convinced of bias than Taylor against United. There is no wide conspiracy or tinfoil hat stuff- most refs in the league are crap for every team. But Taylor is so consistently poor against United I'm genuinely thinking of using his appointment of our games as a betting strategy.
 
Taylor balanced out the non penalty (correct call by VAR) with disallowing Garnacho's goal to balance things out. Lets not even go into the non penalty for Hojlund.
We were supposed to share the points.
So in the end 3 points was taken from us and given to an undeserving team.

I can accept refs make mistakes. But not having the balls to make correct calls because of what the home fans may say is cowardice.

A female ref would have had more balls than him.

As for the Gooners, I'm glad that a future League 2 side took their title last season.
 
Taylor balanced out the non penalty (correct call by VAR) with disallowing Garnacho's goal to balance things out. Lets not even go into the non penalty for Hojlund.
We were supposed to share the points.
So in the end 3 points was taken from us and given to an undeserving team.

I can accept refs make mistakes. But not having the balls to make correct calls because of what the home fans may say is cowardice.

A female ref would have had more balls than him.

As for the Gooners, I'm glad that a future League 2 side took their title last season.
I wouldn’t say an underserving team won. I’d say a draw would have been a fair result. We was poor first halve. Had a few chances 2nd halve but so did they. We could have easily of won that game if we took the chances we got and we didn’t get that dodgy decision. We really need to start kicking on after the international break and I’m hoping Amrabat as a similar effect that what Bruno had when he joined. Him in midfield could be transformative.
 
Taylor balanced out the non penalty (correct call by VAR) with disallowing Garnacho's goal to balance things out. Lets not even go into the non penalty for Hojlund.
We were supposed to share the points.
So in the end 3 points was taken from us and given to an undeserving team.

I can accept refs make mistakes. But not having the balls to make correct calls because of what the home fans may say is cowardice.

A female ref would have had more balls than him.

As for the Gooners, I'm glad that a future League 2 side took their title last season.

He has no real say in the matter, once VAR told him to look at it he knew he’d fecked up and had no choice but to overturn it. On a side note why is the club not making more of a big deal about this and all the decisions that go against us? Forest were talking about writing to the PGMOL after 2 decisions that were CORRECT went against them. Why are we not kicking up a fuss? Why don’t the club contact the PGMOL and ask for an explanation for Taylor’s performances in our games. It would at the very least raise awareness and put him under pressure to perform properly in any games he has with us for the rest of the season.
 
I like a good ref bash as much as anyone, but the offside was not his call at all.
Who is bashing him for the offsides? The OP makes a lot of good points.
 
On a side note why is the club not making more of a big deal about this and all the decisions that go against us? Forest were talking about writing to the PGMOL after 2 decisions that were CORRECT went against them. Why are we not kicking up a fuss? Why don’t the club contact the PGMOL and ask for an explanation for Taylor’s performances in our games. It would at the very least raise awareness and put him under pressure to perform properly in any games he has with us for the rest of the season.
For me, writing to the PGMOL has a bit of a small club mentality about it. Fair enough, have the manager criticise the referee in his post match interviews (Fergie often did it) however writing to the PGMOL isn't something I'd expect from the top clubs. Reminds me of those kids in school who would get their mum to write a letter to the headteacher to complain about their teacher picking on them :lol:
 
I think we should keep clear of all Ant(h)onys until we know what's going on here.
 
Stats 2 out of 11 games we've won while he's ref... bloody hell that's a awful stat.
So It does show that there is an unconscious Bias were he is involved, so maybe utd need to highlight this to the PGMOL.

The Blatant Evans foul that now shows it could have been deliberately missed?

The Havertz pen then non pen was a strange one for me because after he sees no contact then reversed it surley he has to book him for simulation if not he must have thought there was contact but not enough for pen would like an explanation on that one.

It's always difficult to get the right calls at the Emirates anyway the way Arteta is on the touchline ..
 
And rival fans say that he’s biased towards united because he’s from Manchester.
 
And rival fans say that he’s biased towards united because he’s from Manchester.
Wonder if there is a case of Neville syndrome happening, where he tries too hard to prove impartiality and goes too far the other way?

Must admit I hadn't realised the win ratio with him was so low. While its natural in a random distribution to have outliers like this, this still seems on the extreme end. However, which games are we talking about? Does he only get the high profile away from home games we have sucked in? That is also a factor if so.
 
He is without doubt an absolutely shocking referee and has been for the last few seasons. But, in the early days, we had a good record when he was refereeing. I wonder if someone got to him about that and he did a Howard Webb, who used to referee our games fairly before he got accused of favouring us and then gave us nothing afterwards. Taylor for me was a decent ref, until the time he sent off Martial but not Lamela in the 6-1 home defeat to Tottenham. Since then though ...............
 
Before people turn this into a post match discussion, please recognise this is related to the last few seasons. I genuinely wonder if this is a statistical outlier, or is there a top club in England with a comparatively bad record under a referee?

We have now won just 2 of our last 11 games with Taylor.

He has never shown an opposition player a red card, and has awarded United DOUBLE the number of yellows.

If you look to big calls, he has made some of the worst decisions in recent memory including the terrible handball by Middlesbrough at Old Trafford, the PGMOL apology forcing allowing of Villa free kick last season. Today, he had no hesitation awarding a penalty that was overturned.

If you look at small decisions, taking any 10 minute segment of his games shows the difference in the small calls that dictate the flow of a game. Today for example, Arsenal committed at least two fouls leading to their corner (not to mention a blatant foul on evans.) but look at the fouls he gave against our attackers in the minutes prior to it. I genuinely cant see any difference.

People often make too much of a fuss over big calls, which taylor almost always gets wrong against us, but for me the most impactful way a ref dictates a game is the 50/50s. The small calls, the players left playing on yellows for extended spells, the advantages given or not given.

It isn't normal for a club of Uniteds size to have such a terrible win percentage over that length of time. That run includes home games against southampton, middlesbrough, newcastle and forest so can't even be put down to being skewed by fixtures.

In light of Mike Dean confirming many people's suspicions that these guys are simply for too emotionally driven for the job they do, I don't think I've ever been more convinced of bias than Taylor against United. There is no wide conspiracy or tinfoil hat stuff- most refs in the league are crap for every team. But Taylor is so consistently poor against United I'm genuinely thinking of using his appointment of our games as a betting strategy.
Wrap this OP in an envelope and send it to the PGMOL. If the likes of forest are complaining about perfectly legitimate calls, we should be going bloody nuclear.
 
Stats 2 out of 11 games we've won while he's ref... bloody hell that's a awful stat.
So It does show that there is an unconscious Bias were he is involved, so maybe utd need to highlight this to the PGMOL.

The Blatant Evans foul that now shows it could have been deliberately missed?

The Havertz pen then non pen was a strange one for me because after he sees no contact then reversed it surley he has to book him for simulation if not he must have thought there was contact but not enough for pen would like an explanation on that one.

It's always difficult to get the right calls at the Emirates anyway the way Arteta is on the touchline ..
There was contact after the ball had gone though because Havertz left his leg there to induce it. It wasn't strictly simulation, but nor was it a penalty.
 
Hope the club makes a statement like Klopp about how we are always shafted by him. We will then win 20 games on a bounce with him as a ref. It's guaranteed.
 
I don't know the schedule of games, but I generally feel like Taylor manages the bigger games for us. Given our performances against the big teams, could be a bit of a coincidence.

Would be interesting to see what the games were.
 
I don't know the schedule of games, but I generally feel like Taylor manages the bigger games for us. Given our performances against the big teams, could be a bit of a coincidence.

Would be interesting to see what the games were.

As I said in OP, those eleven include home games versus southampton, middlesbrough, forest and newcastle (pre saudi), and an away tie against villa. The double number of yellows over all his matches though is quite shocking. There is no conceivable way it makes sense other than bias.

In 45 matches reffing United, he has given United more yellows than their opponent 40 times. The oppostion have never got a red card.

But more importantly than all of these interesting stats, is all the non stat stuff that really dictates a game. I cant remember us ever even having a decent flow or performance with him as ref. Certainly the arsenal game typified it. We got almost no 50-50 calls and had fouls given against by our attackers that simply werent given at the other end. It happened over and over.
 
Nice stat, but lets actually look at the games....


How many of these can we say we lost because of the ref? I don't recall all decisions, but i can't remember many of games here that we deserved to win and didn't. Maybe Chelsea away that finished 1-1, but don't recall bad refereeing being the cause.

8 of the 11 games are against top teams and given our terrible record against top teams, that figures.

If Taylor was biased in anyway, he wouldn't have overturned the pen against Arsenal.

Our overall record under Taylor - 45 games, 27 wins, 4 draws, 13 losses.
 
As I said in OP, those eleven include home games versus southampton, middlesbrough, forest and newcastle (pre saudi), and an away tie against villa. The double number of yellows over all his matches though is quite shocking. There is no conceivable way it makes sense other than bias.

In 45 matches reffing United, he has given United more yellows than their opponent 40 times. The oppostion have never got a red card.

But more importantly than all of these interesting stats, is all the non stat stuff that really dictates a game. I cant remember us ever even having a decent flow or performance with him as ref. Certainly the arsenal game typified it. We got almost no 50-50 calls and had fouls given against by our attackers that simply werent given at the other end. It happened over and over.

Some pretty good results here....

Manchester City 1-2 Manchester United (Dec 7, 2019) Final Score - ESPN
Man City 0 - 2 Man Utd - Match Report & Highlights (skysports.com)
Manchester United 4-0 Chelsea (Aug 11, 2019) Final Score - ESPN
Chelsea 0-2 Manchester United (Feb 17, 2020) Final Score - ESPN
 
This is like something you read in rawk when the dippers lose.
 
I don't know the schedule of games, but I generally feel like Taylor manages the bigger games for us. Given our performances against the big teams, could be a bit of a coincidence.

Would be interesting to see what the games were.
This was my immediate thought as well - this is more a case of us having a poor record in big games rather than referee bias.
 
For me, writing to the PGMOL has a bit of a small club mentality about it. Fair enough, have the manager criticise the referee in his post match interviews (Fergie often did it) however writing to the PGMOL isn't something I'd expect from the top clubs. Reminds me of those kids in school who would get their mum to write a letter to the headteacher to complain about their teacher picking on them :lol:

The top clubs? Klopp had always gone out of his way to criticise decisions and it has absolutely worked in his favour. Same for Pep the genius and Arteta.
United are way behind in criticism of referees because it’s often resulted in bans - see Mourinho treatment - it’s time that the balance is addressed, because we are getting the terrible end of a shitty stick
 
The top clubs? Klopp had always gone out of his way to criticise decisions and it has absolutely worked in his favour. Same for Pep the genius and Arteta.
United are way behind in criticism of referees because it’s often resulted in bans - see Mourinho treatment - it’s time that the balance is addressed, because we are getting the terrible end of a shitty stick

Aye, all clubs should probably be fined for any whining at referees. It's the lamest trick in the book to deflect blame and trying to bent them to pressure.

Refs are not above criticism but the way the debate has been run forever by pundits and coaches themselves is not helping.
 
The top clubs? Klopp had always gone out of his way to criticise decisions and it has absolutely worked in his favour. Same for Pep the genius and Arteta.
United are way behind in criticism of referees because it’s often resulted in bans - see Mourinho treatment - it’s time that the balance is addressed, because we are getting the terrible end of a shitty stick
As I already said - there's nothing wrong with criticising ref's decisions in post match interviews but writing to the PGMOL is a bit small time in my opinion.
 
I think with refs in general, they're scared to give us controversial decisions because they get battered by the media for days whereas if they go against us it doesn't get talked about. Back when we had Fergie they had a bit more fear as he would be on them.
 
There was contact after the ball had gone though because Havertz left his leg there to induce it. It wasn't strictly simulation, but nor was it a penalty.
So Taylor and Var thought he just made himself fall over. That's OK then.
 
Seen lots of fans say it’s a biased appointment in our favour. :lol: Comical.
 
Well the fact that he appears to be a Homer more than anything... We should try and make it work in our favour then.
 
Surely can’t be a worse record than it is with Michael Oliver?

We always lose with him and he never gives us a thing
 
Seen lots of fans say it’s a biased appointment in our favour. :lol: Comical.
Anyone who believes that is wilfully ignorant…he is the most biased against that after Oliver. Most referees in the league are biased against us; how can anyone believe that Taylor is biased in favour of us.
 
Anyone who believes that is wilfully ignorant…he is the most biased against that after Oliver. Most referees in the league are biased against us; how can anyone believe that Taylor is biased in favour of us.
It’s because he’s from Altrincham, but he clearly goes out of his way to be crap to us probably for that reason.
 
It’s because he’s from Altrincham, but he clearly goes out of his way to be crap to us probably for that reason.

Yeah, he's basically the ref version of Gary Neville on commentary.

Better give every 50/50 against United so that everyone knows I'm not biased.
 
Yeah, he's basically the ref version of Gary Neville on commentary.

Better give every 50/50 against United so that everyone knows I'm not biased.

There‘s a Liverpool fan at work that swears Anthony Taylor is a Man United fan because he’s from Altrincham. Despite the actual terrible stats against us and what we as United fans see from him whenever he refs us.
Definitely second only to Oliver in the ABU stakes.
I fear the worst.
 
13 yellows 0 reds in our first 11 games under him….

Us in the last 11 games…30 yellows and 3 reds.
(Will explain the poor results. You’d have to believe we have become a far far dirtier team.)

opponents in the last 11 games…10 yellows 0 reds.

Games with Zero yellow cards…Us 0 v Opponents 5

Games with more yellow cards…Us 10 v Opponents 0


Bookings per game

Us 3 3 1 6 5 3 3 2 2 2 3

Op 0 0 0 0 2 3 1 1 0 1 2

Since referees CHOOSE to book players, they don’t book every player for every potentially bookable offence, then there are serious questions here. In addition this is just what we can see because it’s his choices that can be recorded. There’s no way of seeing, other than watching all 11 matches back, decisions he decided not to make.

There’s zero chance that there isn’t some kind of bias here.
 
We should offer him a nice trip somewhere warm in winter. All expenses paid of course. Really need to get with the modern way of managing refs.
 
Opp fans moan and bitch about him being baised towards us, and it works as his decision making against us shows! Anyone that says refs are not influenced by external noise is plainly stupid, they're human and fallable and more than likely have the noise in the back of their mind at every major decision.