Our double midfield pivot and lack of numbers

Bastian

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So it looks McTominay is off, which doesn't really affect our midfield pivot, but as is we have two capable players for the midfield pivot in Casemiro and Mainoo, both of whom are gassed around the 60 minute mark. Eriksen is well past it, Mejbri is seemingly on the way out, Collyer has yet to show that he's up for it, Mount is not a central midfielder, and we somehow managed to get Donny out of the club and off the wage bill.

We clearly need two midfielders still. If we secure Ugarte we have gotten - by most accounts - a player who is physically robust and has a proper engine, so he should be a mainstay in the side (similar to Bruno). But we'll have two matches per week most weeks and Casemiro looked pretty off it last season, while Mainoo will also need some protection at such a young age even if he's our best midfielder.

It's a shame Napoli are seemingly getting Billy Gilmour for 12m+6m (@Bwuk as you were pointing out), as he's got the engine and tactical discipline to be a very good squad addition. I'm still hoping we will somehow pull another midfielder out of our sleeve this week.

Is there anyone outside of Collyer who might be ready for the first team setup? When is Dan Gore thought to be back in training after that surgery?
 
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BluesJr said:
Kone will get minutes.
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That would be interesting. I would assume he'll be given plenty of time to adjust (and play u21 football) before being introduced, but I do hope he's that highly thought of that he could be getting into the fold.
 
Yeah our default plan when players get gassed is sub Mainoo at 60', drop Bruno deep and get McTominay at #10. Might be useful to point out that we signed Mount to play Mainoo's role and that's where his likely position will be when our forwards get match sharp.

CM: Mainoo / Mount
DM: Casemiro / Ugarte
#10: Bruno / ??

Ideally we need a CM but not sure how feasible a signing is.
 
BluesJr said:
Kone will get minutes.
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I know absolutely nothing about him but I imagine it won't be for a long time yet. The fitness levels will be much higher than he's used to, he's never played an a game a fraction as difficult as he'll face here, physically and technically. Then he's got to get past Ten Hags favourites too. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it's late into the season before we see him, if at all this season.
 
Bruno and possibly Mount can play a bit deeper but now that you mention it, it does look like another midfielder might be necessary even if we get Ugarte. As much as I liked him in his debut season for us, Eriksen just looks completely surplus to requirements, other than possibly a Europa League role.

Surprised Rabiot hasn't gone anywhere yet.
 
Irwin99 said:
Surprised Rabiot hasn't gone anywhere yet.
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I would imagine his mother wants exhorbitant wages for him. We looked at him a couple of seasons ago and she wanted £300k + a week, I remember reading. Thank god we didnt follow it up.
 
Irwin99 said:
Bruno and possibly Mount can play a bit deeper but now that you mention it, it does look like another midfielder might be necessary even if we get Ugarte. As much as I liked him in his debut season for us, Eriksen just looks completely surplus to requirements, other than possibly a Europa League role.

Surprised Rabiot hasn't gone anywhere yet.
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wolvored said:
I would imagine his mother wants exhorbitant wages for him. We looked at him a couple of seasons ago and she wanted £300k + a week, I remember reading. Thank god we didnt follow it up.
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I suppose with a signing on fee his wage could be kept relatively modest. Not sure he's what we need though.
 
pocco said:
I know absolutely nothing about him but I imagine it won't be for a long time yet. The fitness levels will be much higher than he's used to, he's never played an a game a fraction as difficult as he'll face here, physically and technically. Then he's got to get past Ten Hags favourites too. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it's late into the season before we see him, if at all this season.
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Agreed, he looks like he still needs to grow into his frame. Looks far too weak for PL at the moment in terms of physicality. But that will come with age and training.
 
Bastian said:
So it looks McTominay is off, which doesn't really affect our midfield pivot, but as is we have two capable players for the midfield pivot in Casemiro and Mainoo, both of whom are gassed around the 60 minute mark. Eriksen is well past it, Mejbri is seemingly on the way out, Collyer has yet to show that he's up for it, Mount is not a central midfielder, and we somehow managed to get Donny out of the club and off the wage bill.

We clearly need two midfielders still. If we secure Ugarte we have gotten - by most accounts - a player who is physically robust and has a proper engine, so he should be a mainstay in the side (similar to Bruno). But we'll have two matches per week most weeks and Casemiro looked pretty off it last season, while Mainoo will also need some protection at such a young age even if he's our best midfielder.

It's a shame Napoli are seemingly getting Billy Gilmour for 12m+6m (@Bwuk as you were pointing out), as he's got the engine and tactical discipline to be a very good squad addition. I'm still hoping we will somehow pull another midfielder out of our sleeve this week.

Is there anyone outside of Collyer who might be ready for the first team setup? When is Dan Gore thought to be back in training after that surgery?
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We are out of time for two midfielders. We will get Ugarte as the starting DMF, hope he stays fit and will provide rotation to him with Casemiro and Collyer

At least that seems to be recruitement's plan. Problems with this plan are: can Ugarte stay fit, is Casemiro good enough even for rotation, and most importantly - Erik has been horrible at managing proper rotation throughout his entire tenure with us so it is highly unlikely he will suddenly learn that skill
 
Double pivot....false number 9s....inverted wingers....pah! What a load of nonsense, its no wonder we're not winning anything.

Get back to 4-4-2 and stop mucking about.
 
Looks like it will be:

Bruno/Mount
Mainoo/Eriksen Ugarte/Casemiro​


With Mainoo, Mount and Ugarte all 25 and under, you'd imagine they'd naturally be our long term midfield. Whether they are good enough remains to be seen, but we'd also be needing replacements for Casemiro, Eriksen and potentially Bruno next season.

Maybe Sékou Koné replaces Casemiro

With Mainoo so young, it would probably make sense to bring in an experienced ball player for him to rotate with next season.

Bruno has just signed a new contract, so you'd expect him to be here for a few more seasons.


Bruno/Mount
Mainoo/New CDM Ugarte/Kone​
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
Looks like it will be:

Bruno/Mount
Mainoo/Eriksen Ugarte/Casemiro​


With Mainoo, Mount and Ugarte all 25 and under, you'd imagine they'd naturally be our long term midfield. Whether they are good enough remains to be seen, but we'd also be needing replacements for Casemiro, Eriksen and potentially Bruno next season.

Maybe Sékou Koné replaces Casemiro

With Mainoo so young, it would probably make sense to bring in an experienced ball player for him to rotate with next season.

Bruno has just signed a new contract, so you'd expect him to be here for a few more seasons.


Bruno/Mount
Mainoo/New CDM Ugarte/Kone​
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Drop off from Mainoo out is a huge concern
 
I still think we should go in for Billy Gilmour and move Eriksen on. Gilmour is wildly under-rated on this forum.

I can see Ugarte and Casemiro being the starting pairing vs Liverpool.
 
Bwuk said:
I still think we should go in for Billy Gilmour and move Eriksen on. Gilmour is wildly under-rated on this forum.

I can see Ugarte and Casemiro being the starting pairing vs Liverpool.
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Seems to be underrated at Brighton too.
 
Red_toad said:
Drop off from Mainoo out is a huge concern
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Agreed. It’s an issue I’d like us to rectify before the close of the window, ideally. Eriksen can have his uses, but I’d be worried about any long term role he’d have to play there.
 
I don't want to see Mainoo anywhere near the Europa League starting 11 until the knockout rounds. If Eriksen stays then he should be able to put in a shift vs Europa teams. Maybe Collyer could fill in there as well.

Signing a backup midfielder is probably needed though when you factor in potential injuries.
 
Red_toad said:
Drop off from Mainoo out is a huge concern
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From an off the ball point of view, maybe, but I actually think Eriksen is still our best ball playing midfielder. Providing he has legs around him (Ugarte) in a game we're most likely to dominate, I think he'll be fine.
 
Bwuk said:
I still think we should go in for Billy Gilmour and move Eriksen on. Gilmour is wildly under-rated on this forum.

I can see Ugarte and Casemiro being the starting pairing vs Liverpool.
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Just seen Gilmour might be off to Napoli for £12m. Would definitely take him at that price, although I’m sure it would be at least £20m for us. Handy little player of the profile we need with some PL experience.
 
pcaming said:
Which is why I find it strange how many turning their nose up at Rabiot, because of some unfounded notion that he is a troublemaker.
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ten Hag has Mount and Eriksen to use in the pivot.

Whilst most may think the quality isn't there, there's no point stockpiling on players, especially when the aforementioned players are on big contracts and expecting to play.

Next season, we'll hopefully find an adequate replacement for Eriksen.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
ten Hag has Mount and Eriksen to use in the pivot.

Whilst most may think the quality isn't there, there's no point stockpiling on players, especially when the aforementioned players are on big contracts and expecting to play.

Next season, we'll hopefully find an adequate replacement for Eriksen.
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I would like to think that this stupid idea he conceived last season has died, and he doesn't subject us to that nonsense again.

I have a sneaky feeling Eriksen could leave.
 
pcaming said:
I would like to think that this stupid idea he conceived last season has died, and he doesn't subject us to that nonsense again.

I have a sneaky feeling Eriksen could leave.
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Mount literally played like 2 or 3 games as an 8 for us last season before getting injured. Hardly enough game time for us to come to the conclusion that it's not going to work.

With that being said, if Eriksen does leave, then you'd expect the club, especially with McTominay going as well, to go in for someone else. Times ticking, though...
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
From an off the ball point of view, maybe, but I actually think Eriksen is still our best ball playing midfielder. Providing he has legs around him (Ugarte) in a game we're most likely to dominate, I think he'll be fine.
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Have you missed that he’s completely gassed around the 60 minute mark?
 
Red_toad said:
Have you seen our subs attempts at closing out a match :lol:.
I’d rather we had a more durable player, who could finish matches.
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That comes down to the manager's approach.

While we'd all prefer players who can consistently finish matches, I don't think that's entirely feasible with the way ten Hag sets up his team. His system demands a lot of running, and even players with exceptional stamina would struggle to maintain that intensity for a full 90 minutes, especially at the high tempo that ten Hag favours.
 
Madness we did not sign another midfielder.
 
Bruno has been absolutely AWOL on and off possession. Wonder what the instructions were
 
Don't see Ugarte solving the midfield issue. Its not fully a personnel issue, more of a system issue which we've seen for the last couple of seasons.
 
Amarsdd said:
Don't see Ugarte solving the midfield issue. Its not fully a personnel issue, more of a system issue which we've seen for the last couple of seasons.
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I think it's both, numbers and tactics. Ugarte will solve half of it, not least because of his stamina and robustness. But we are still very light. A Mainoo injury and we are completely fecked and Erik has no plan B.
 
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