Our club is a poison chalice for every specialist position, not just the manager?

Sir Erik ten Hag

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(I will leave the manager aside for this post, as we have enough threads already)

People often talk about how we'd go straight back to the top if we are run properly, and have actual top people in right positions to run the club.

On the contrary to what many think, it's not like we haven't tried to do that. However no matter the profile, each and every "top specialist" coming to United all turned out to be underwhelming at our club.

• Regarding DOF: We had Ralf Rangnick, the most famous and proven DOF in Europe coming to our club, right at the time when we were all crying out for such a position. Yet he took the interim manager seat and doomed himself from there. He was labelled as a fraud.
• Regarding scout: We had Juventus's chief scout Javier Ribalta himself joining us in 2017. He came with a lot of hype due to his good work at Juventus (The prime Juventus, not the current version), acquiring a lot of good players for small fee or even free. Juventus was one of the shrewdest clubs in the transfer market back then. Yet he left us after not even 1 year?!

I took those 2 examples, because a DOF and a Chief Scout often serve as the biggest catalysts in our discussion about how a top club is run.

So not only the manager, but also other specialist positions at Manchester United seem to be a poison chalice to whoever take them. No matter how great or proven themselves were, they all turned underwhelming here.
 
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What We Do in the Shadows has a great character in it called Colin Robinson. Colin is an Energy Vampire, who sucks the lifeforce from everyone he encounters by being the most boring person imaginable. I firmly believe that his character is based on our club.
 
I think a lot of this stems from the dressing room and how we let player power run riot too long. Many of these players turned on Ole in the end even though he made their lives easy and though we’ve ditched some of them, we still need to move on a number.

Just looking at the team you can see there are players who have some fight in them and the mentality to not wilt - Hojlund, Licha, Hannibal, Amrabat, Mount, Garnacho, Antony all these guys I think will bust a gut for a common cause and stick to a game plan. Build around these guys, drop the rest. The fanbase will side with the manager if he makes some big calls and we see a better performance.
 
The clubs rotten to the core. Every player and manager we sign inevitably turns to shit before long. We’re a black hole for talent, sapping the ability out of anyone that’s here long enough. That’s what the Glazers have reduced this club too.
 
Manchester Utd is not a happy place to work. That is as clear as day. Absent owners who couldn't care less about their staff. Whoring the club for sale for almost a year. Uncertainty breeds mediocrity. Unhappiness breeds apathy. Theres nothing positive to say about the place. Players in trouble with the police for alleged sexual abuses. Overpaid players who have too much of a high opinion of themselves. Shit loads of injuries. No footballing structure with any apparent authority. If ten Hag was sacked, the OP is right. It's a boom bust cycle with a major lack of boom. Nothing will change till we have new owners. The rot does indeed set from the very top.
 
It's probably just the players. At one time we had Rooney Ronaldo and Tevez up front, with Scholes behind them. No wonder we were battering teams. It's really that simple.
 
The thing is, getting new owners might not change things overnight but to not have them sucking money out and not putting money in would be a good start.
Also, you’d hope that new owners would hire a top DoF and recruitment team while running the club better in general with presence and leadership, which wouldn’t be hard by comparison.
 
We had an investment banker overseeing the direction of the club for nearly 10 years. We now have some of his appointments doing the same.

John Murtough' experience is basically United post-Ferguson and a stint at Everton. He has no experience at a major club outside of us during the last ten years. Our technical director wouldn't be here if he wasn't a former player. He has no previous experience in his role.

The club is littered with non-merit based appointments that won't rock the boat. Football is a huge industry with a massive pool of talent at every level, somehow outside of the manager and the players, appointments are limited to two degrees of separation from the owners.
 
TrueRed79 said:
Manchester Utd is not a happy place to work. That is as clear as day. Absent owners who couldn't care less about their staff. Whoring the club for sale for almost a year. Uncertainty breeds mediocrity. Unhappiness breeds apathy. Theres nothing positive to say about the place. Players in trouble with the police for alleged sexual abuses. Overpaid players who have too much of a high opinion of themselves. Shit loads of injuries. No footballing structure with any apparent authority. If ten Hag was sacked, the OP is right. It's a boom bust cycle with a major lack of boom. Nothing will change till we have new owners. The rot does indeed set from the very top.
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In a nutshell.
 
As a club we're constantly operating with one hand tied behind its back. It all centers around this whole pedestal our fans put the managers role on. The club can never operate like an efficient machine because it's so emotionally attached to what should be in modern football, a disposable and to a degree a limited cog in the system.
 
Most of it stems from a lack of vision at the top. The Glazers just want us to qualify for CL football and be a profitable business that they can take dividends from, they don't give a feck about the team's identity or how we play. And that indifference bleeds through to every other area of the club.
 
How can you be successful if fans rate success on sporting achievement and the ownership rate it on dividends and share price.

We fundamentally aren't even being measured in the same metrics.
 
Scarlett Dracarys said:
Why wasn't Sir Alex and his Treble winning, PL dominating squad not poisoned then if that's the issue?
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Easy answer; Sir Alex did run our club 100%. Our owners could not change that fact and were wise not to do so.

The way Sir Alex did it left with him. After him, we became more and more commercial. Other clubs have become more modern and we have been left behind on so many areas. ten Hag are making necessary adjustments and improvements and that will take time.

The sad part though is that he alone will not be enough. We need to be run like a modern football club with the best people in charge in all areas of football. That will also take time and it starts with new dedicated owners.
 
The amount of money this club has pissed away on transfers and wages is fecking ridiculous and still no further forward.

Stop buying big established names who are only interested in money. Utd need a massive clear out, reload, go for youth.
 
A point I keep making on here...

We have never been well run as a club. You have to be an almost generational/once in a lifetime manager to succeed. Fergie and Busby were that.

I think even someone like Klopp (had he been appointed between 2014 and 2016) would struggle to succeed and thrive here.
 
The Irish Connection said:
The thing is, getting new owners might not change things overnight but to not have them sucking money out and not putting money in would be a good start.
Also, you’d hope that new owners would hire a top DoF and recruitment team while running the club better in general with presence and leadership, which wouldn’t be hard by comparison.
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I think it would change relatively quickly Its been most likely leaked by Ratcliffe's side that he's after a director in the event he maintained ownership. I think the same was mentioned with Jassim too. All United need to do is ensure the hierarchy have a sustained vision for the team and allow the manager to direct the tactical element of that team. What's being witnessed under Murtough that was also evident with Woodward is that the managers are being overindulged in recruitment. It's a simple mistake that is continuing to have a costly effect.
 
Sir Erik ten Hag said:
(I will leave the manager aside for this post, as we have enough threads already)

People often talk about how we'd go straight back to the top if we are run properly, and have actual top people in right positions to run the club.

On the contrary to what many think, it's not like we haven't tried to do that. However no matter the profile, each and every "top specialist" coming to United all turned out to be underwhelming at our club.

• Regarding DOF: We had Ralf Rangnick, the most famous and proven DOF in Europe coming to our club, right at the time when we were all crying out for such a position. Yet he took the interim manager seat and doomed himself from there. He was labelled as a fraud.
• Regarding scout: We had Juventus's chief scout Javier Ribalta himself joining us in 2017. He came with a lot of hype due to his good work at Juventus (The prime Juventus, not the current version), acquiring a lot of good players for small fee or even free. Juventus was one of the shrewdest clubs in the transfer market back then. Yet he left us after not even 1 year?!

I took those 2 examples, because a DOF and a Chief Scout often serve as the biggest catalysts in our discussion about how a top club is run.

So not only the manager, but also other specialist positions at Manchester United seem to be a poison chalice to whoever take them. No matter how great or proven themselves were, they all turned underwhelming here.
Click to expand...

But they didn't turn underwhelming, it's actually the fact they weren't allowed to do what they were originally signed to do that is the problem.
 
Redstain said:
I think it would change relatively quickly Its been most likely leaked by Ratcliffe's side that he's after a director in the event he maintained ownership. I think the same was mentioned with Jassim too. All United need to do is ensure the hierarchy have a sustained vision for the team and allow the manager to direct the tactical element of that team. What's being witnessed under Murtough that was also evident with Woodward is that the managers are being overindulged in recruitment. It's a simple mistake that is continuing to have a costly effect.
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Maybe, but no one gets every signing correct and even a top director will make some mistakes.
But yes, surely a shakeup in recruitment couldn’t be worse.
 
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