Omar Marmoush

-“Omar, come quickly. After we signed Omar Marmoush this morning, the Megastore has run out of the letters O, M and A for jerseys.”
-“Dios Mio. How many did we sell?”
-“………seven.”
 
He's been outstanding over the last year or so. Gyökeres-esque rise to prominense. A real livewire, and a versatile and well-rounded forward as well. That Eintracht Frankfurt “thing” is rather bizarre and worrisome, however (even though I don't believe in jinxes). All these forwards produce exceptional spells there, and then fail to replicate that caliber of production or performance for the club that signs them. Luka Jović with 34 goal contributions in 2018—19 (which led to a €60 million move to Real Madrid), Sébastien Haller with 32 goal contributions in 2018—19 too (which led to a €50 million move to West Ham), André Silva with 39 goal contributions in 2020—21 (which led to a move to RB Leipzig), Randal Kolo Muani with 40 goal contributions in 2022—23 (which led to a €90 million move to Paris Saint-Germain). What's up with that, is Marmoush going to be the one who bucks the trend? :nervous:
 
Invictus said:
He's been outstanding over the last year or so. Gyökeres-esque rise to prominense. A real livewire, and a versatile and well-rounded forward as well. That Eintracht Frankfurt “thing” is rather bizarre and worrisome, however (even though I don't believe in jinxes). All these forwards produce exceptional spells there, and then fail to replicate that caliber of production or performance for the club that signs them. Luka Jović with 34 goal contributions in 2018—19 (which led to a €60 million move to Real Madrid), Sébastien Haller with 32 goal contributions in 2018—19 too (which led to a €50 million move to West Ham), André Silva with 39 goal contributions in 2020—21 (which led to a move to RB Leipzig), Randal Kolo Muani with 40 goal contributions in 2022—23 (which led to a €90 million move to Paris Saint-Germain). What's up with that, is Marmoush going to be the one who bucks the trend? :nervous:
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Do they have a attacking specialist coach? Tap him up!
 
Glorio said:
Do they have a attacking specialist coach? Tap him up!
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Not as far as I can tell. Martin Spohrer has been the only consistent presence under a bunch of different head coaches (Niko Kovač, Adi Hütter, Oliver Glasner, Dino Toppmöller). But he's an Athletic coach, in terms of profile (specializing in strength and conditioning related training)...

r7FHw0V.png
 
There's a lot to like in his game. He is tenacious, livewire, hard working. Would be a great signing for anyone
 
Invictus said:
Not as far as I can tell. Martin Spohrer has been the only consistent presence under a bunch of different head coaches (Niko Kovač, Adi Hütter, Oliver Glasner, Dino Toppmöller). But he's an Athletic coach, in terms of profile (specializing in strength and conditioning related training)...

r7FHw0V.png
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Thanks! Was not being entirely serious so didn't necessarily expect you to check, but it is an interesting pattern that strikers who shine there flatter to deceive elsewhere.
 
In the midst of an almost comically brilliant season. Not only are the numbers stunning but his overall play is beautiful to watch and the sheer quality of goals is great fun.

No idea if he could replicate it here or in the Premier League but it would be very exciting to find out.
 
gulli_G said:
What's his position? No10 or No9 type?
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He's most suited to this role in an Amorim team...

Striker
Marmoush—No. 10
Wingback—No. 8—No. 6—Wingback
LCB—Centerback—RCB
Goalkeeper
​
The good...
  • Very productive this term. 24 goal contributions in roughly 1400 minutes at club level.​
  • Unpredictable and predisposed to executing well-timed runs in behind. Amorim wants one of the two No. 10s to do this (Pote did this at Sporting CP).​
  • Almost 26 years old so he is presumably at the peak of his powers.​
  • Pretty decent on set pieces.​
  • Suited to an intense approach on and of the ball because of his relentlessness and mentality.​
The not-so-good...
  • Most shots per game of any Bundesliga player, so you have to wonder about his fit with Højlund (who isn't a consummate facilitator, at least at this stage of his career).​
  • Out-performing his xG. Is that sustainable, or is he simply in going through a fortuitous purple patch (and things are going to even out, considering the underlying data?)​
  • His current club will demand a pretty penny. The transfers of Jović, Haller and Muani set a clear precedent.​
  • Should we rather Garnacho and let him develop into a Marmoush-esque producer, while prioritizing other positions?​
The ugly...
  • The curse of Eintracht Frankfurt forwards, aaargh!​
 
Assuming Eintracht would want Jovic/Kolo Muani type money, we'd surely be better off going for Cunha from Wolves. Same age, similar profile, but can definitely hack it in the PL.
 
V.O. said:
Assuming Eintracht would want Jovic/Kolo Muani type money, we'd surely be better off going for Cunha from Wolves. Same age, similar profile, but can definitely hack it in the PL.
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Yes, big feck up when we tried to be smart last summer with the Zirkzee move instead.
 
Just seems like the type of player who won’t transition well.

These type of players need to go to a West Ham first.

He looks great on the eye though.
 
Another two goals today. He's great. I'm ready to be hurt again by another Frankfurt meme forward. Although in fairness I didn't get tricked by Jovic, Silva or Haller. I did a bit by Kolo Muani..so I'm on a 75% hit rate right now.



Beautiful touch, pace and finish for his second. 1:01 if it doesn't link properly.

I like Ekitike a lot too. When they sell Marmoush for a stack of money, Ekitike will be next up.
 
Invictus said:
He's been outstanding over the last year or so. Gyökeres-esque rise to prominense. A real livewire, and a versatile and well-rounded forward as well. That Eintracht Frankfurt “thing” is rather bizarre and worrisome, however (even though I don't believe in jinxes). All these forwards produce exceptional spells there, and then fail to replicate that caliber of production or performance for the club that signs them. Luka Jović with 34 goal contributions in 2018—19 (which led to a €60 million move to Real Madrid), Sébastien Haller with 32 goal contributions in 2018—19 too (which led to a €50 million move to West Ham), André Silva with 39 goal contributions in 2020—21 (which led to a move to RB Leipzig), Randal Kolo Muani with 40 goal contributions in 2022—23 (which led to a €90 million move to Paris Saint-Germain). What's up with that, is Marmoush going to be the one who bucks the trend? :nervous:
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Is buying from Eintracht Frankfurt the definition of insanity?
 
25? That's too near to 30. Plus he'll stunt the growth of {insert younger United forward}
 
Top_Bins said:
Is buying from Eintracht Frankfurt the definition of insanity?
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At least buying strikers surely is, I don't think it's that bad for other positions. But one has to acknowledge that Frankfurt as a club worked brilliantly in the last decade, from the brink of relegation and bankruptcy to a club that's consistently challenging for titles (well... cups usually, not the Bundesliga) and creating a lot of player value.

The interesting thing is that they had massive changes to their team and staff and still had this almost continous improvement. Very well run overall.
 
He's currently exceeding his xG by more than +0.5 - no player ever really does this for an extended period of time. Soon turning 26 he only ever scored double digits once in his career before this season. He also has 6 goals in 35 games for Egypt and has 2 goals in his last 18 internationals, failing to score against Botswana, Mauritania twice, Djibouti, Sierra Leone, Zambia, Ethiopia among others. The mentioned Frankfurt curse is not that unlikely to continue with this one...
 
Invictus said:
He's been outstanding over the last year or so. Gyökeres-esque rise to prominense. A real livewire, and a versatile and well-rounded forward as well. That Eintracht Frankfurt “thing” is rather bizarre and worrisome, however (even though I don't believe in jinxes). All these forwards produce exceptional spells there, and then fail to replicate that caliber of production or performance for the club that signs them. Luka Jović with 34 goal contributions in 2018—19 (which led to a €60 million move to Real Madrid), Sébastien Haller with 32 goal contributions in 2018—19 too (which led to a €50 million move to West Ham), André Silva with 39 goal contributions in 2020—21 (which led to a move to RB Leipzig), Randal Kolo Muani with 40 goal contributions in 2022—23 (which led to a €90 million move to Paris Saint-Germain). What's up with that, is Marmoush going to be the one who bucks the trend? :nervous:
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It doesn't stop there, they also sold Kostic, Rebic and Kamada who all flopped. If you ask me, the issue is that Frankfurt is playing a style of football that is not feasible for top clubs. Few teams play as directly as Frankfurt. And while it is entertaining, I think this tactical approach has its limitations. They were completely outclassed in the UCL by Napoli for instance. Right now, their tactic is to free up Ekitike and Marmoush for two on twos against the opponent's CBs with quick passing sequences right after winning the ball but I don't think this will be a sustainable tactic. They already significantly outperform their all their xG values as highlighted here: https://understat.com/league/Bundesliga

Doesn't mean that Marmoush isn't a great player but basically no top team plays Frankfurt's current system and I wouldn't expect him to maintain this level of productivity elsewhere. Especially since his development is pretty much unparalleled. Can't remember a second player who looked so average at his previous clubs to then explode like he did this season.
 
Zehner said:
It doesn't stop there, they also sold Kostic, Rebic and Kamada who all flopped. If you ask me, the issue is that Frankfurt is playing a style of football that is not feasible for top clubs. Few teams play as directly as Frankfurt. And while it is entertaining, I think this tactical approach has its limitations. They were completely outclassed in the UCL by Napoli for instance. Right now, their tactic is to free up Ekitike and Marmoush for two on twos against the opponent's CBs with quick passing sequences right after winning the ball but I don't think this will be a sustainable tactic. They already significantly outperform their all their xG values as highlighted here: https://understat.com/league/Bundesliga

Doesn't mean that Marmoush isn't a great player but basically no top team plays Frankfurt's current system and I wouldn't expect him to maintain this level of productivity elsewhere. Especially since his development is pretty much unparalleled. Can't remember a second player who looked so average at his previous clubs to then explode like he did this season.
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Scoring 31 goals instead of expected 27 is statistically relevant, but even if we look at xPoints Frankfurt is third (instead of second in the real table). They were sometimes lucky to get the results they did, but they clearly are a top four team in the BL anyways. And while they are more direct again (compared to last season) it is quite clear that Toppmöller tried to move away from the ultra-direct style that they often used under Kovac/Hütter/Glasner. Last season was very boring posession football and even then Marmoush was their best attacker. Toppmöller made a step back to make Frankfurt more direct and Marmoush thrives more in the current more direct setup, but that's still a plus for him.

Nonetheless I agree that I wouldn't expect Marmoush's current scoring run to be sustainable for him personally.
 
stefan92 said:
Scoring 31 goals instead of expected 27 is statistically relevant, but even if we look at xPoints Frankfurt is third (instead of second in the real table). They were sometimes lucky to get the results they did, but they clearly are a top four team in the BL anyways. And while they are more direct again (compared to last season) it is quite clear that Toppmöller tried to move away from the ultra-direct style that they often used under Kovac/Hütter/Glasner. Last season was very boring posession football and even then Marmoush was their best attacker. Toppmöller made a step back to make Frankfurt more direct and Marmoush thrives more in the current more direct setup, but that's still a plus for him.

Nonetheless I agree that I wouldn't expect Marmoush's current scoring run to be sustainable for him personally.
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Marmoush has scored 13 goals from 8.45 xG and 7 assists from 4.87 xA so that definitely is a signficant overperformance for him in particular. But yes, they deserve to be where they are right now but I rate them lower than Stuttgart last season for instance.

I didn't watch much of Frankfurt last season but heard that Toppmöller implemented a more possession oriented style but this season, they are playing in a 4-4-2 formation again and from what I've seen of them, their most prominent attacking pattern is to get their two attackers in 2 vs. 2 situations against the CBs. I don't think this can work at a top club since few teams will be comitting so many players to the attack if they find themselves in a clear underdog role and the more feared Frankfurt becomes, the more difficult it will become for them to maintain this run of form.

That doesn't mean that Marmoush and Ekitike aren't playing brillantly, they definitely do, but I don't think they are suited to play as a lone striker and I also believe their productivity will take a huge hit if they play as an inside forward.
 
Zehner said:
I didn't watch much of Frankfurt last season
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I believe no one actually did. Those who tried did fall asleep watching them :lol:
Zehner said:
I don't think this can work at a top club since few teams will be comitting so many players to the attack if they find themselves in a clear underdog role and the more feared Frankfurt becomes, the more difficult it will become for them to maintain this run of form.
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If you were right, you should see in their results that they get relatively good results against top clubs (where they can be the underdog) and not so great results against clubs of similar size. While dominant clubs usually get the expected wins and struggle as soon as they can't get their dominant play through (of course there are exceptions for both rules, as otherwise the underdogs would never win).

So let's have a look at their results this season:
They lost in Leverkusen (current double winner) and in Dortmund (CL finalist). They drew at home against Bayern and Pilsen and away at Union Berlin. They've won everything else. That's results for a top team, that only really struggles against even bigger teams but consistently wins against lesser teams or at worst might get a draw away (Union). The only exception to that would be the Pilsen result.

So I think their results actually back up my perception: They are a great counter attacking team, yes, but they do have the ability to dominate if necessary. When they take the lead and can pick off teams on the counter it's definitely what they can do best and prefer, but they know how to get that lead first as well.
Zehner said:
That doesn't mean that Marmoush and Ekitike aren't playing brillantly, they definitely do, but I don't think they are suited to play as a lone striker and I also believe their productivity will take a huge hit if they play as an inside forward.
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Absolutely, those two have great chemistry together and really profit from each other.
 
He's flying right now. But also a very potential one season wonder. Just one year ago he was 6M and 12 goals stiker. And two years ago around 5 goals striker. And he isn't any 19yo rising star. Of course there's always some late bloomers too. They will be asking something like 50-60M+ for him and i would say it's a risky business.
 
AngeloHenriquez said:
He's still doing it this season for Dortmund?
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And Wout Weghorst was second only to Lewandowski for goals scored from the 2018/2019 season prior to his move to Burnley.

There’s obvious exceptions (Haaland, Lewandowski) but generally strikers from the Bundesliga, particularly those who only start to flourish in their mid to late 20s should be avoided like the plague.
 
stefan92 said:
At least buying strikers surely is, I don't think it's that bad for other positions. But one has to acknowledge that Frankfurt as a club worked brilliantly in the last decade, from the brink of relegation and bankruptcy to a club that's consistently challenging for titles (well... cups usually, not the Bundesliga) and creating a lot of player value.

The interesting thing is that they had massive changes to their team and staff and still had this almost continous improvement. Very well run overall.
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Sounds like Brighton.
 
stefan92 said:
I believe no one actually did. Those who tried did fall asleep watching them :lol:

If you were right, you should see in their results that they get relatively good results against top clubs (where they can be the underdog) and not so great results against clubs of similar size. While dominant clubs usually get the expected wins and struggle as soon as they can't get their dominant play through (of course there are exceptions for both rules, as otherwise the underdogs would never win).

So let's have a look at their results this season:
They lost in Leverkusen (current double winner) and in Dortmund (CL finalist). They drew at home against Bayern and Pilsen and away at Union Berlin. They've won everything else. That's results for a top team, that only really struggles against even bigger teams but consistently wins against lesser teams or at worst might get a draw away (Union). The only exception to that would be the Pilsen result.

So I think their results actually back up my perception: They are a great counter attacking team, yes, but they do have the ability to dominate if necessary. When they take the lead and can pick off teams on the counter it's definitely what they can do best and prefer, but they know how to get that lead first as well.

Absolutely, those two have great chemistry together and really profit from each other.
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Yes, their results are pretty good but it's only been 12 games :) I might be wrong but I simply don't think their current run of results is sustainable.
 
Zehner said:
Yes, their results are pretty good but it's only been 12 games :) I might be wrong but I simply don't think their current run of results is sustainable.
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It has been 19 matches I looked at to get to my conclusion (12 BL, 5 EL, 2 Cup). As I acknowledged they have been a bit lucky, but I absolutely believe they can get a top 4 finish in the league and have a deep DFB-Pokal or EL run.
 
stefan92 said:
It has been 19 matches I looked at to get to my conclusion (12 BL, 5 EL, 2 Cup). As I acknowledged they have been a bit lucky, but I absolutely believe they can get a top 4 finish in the league and have a deep DFB-Pokal or EL run.
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19 matches still isn't much. I think many people underestimate how many matches it takes for chance to even out. As said for me, it is more about the playstyle and its indications. I saw them against Dortmund, Leverkusen and Bayern this season and they were completely outclassed in the first two matches. They were good against Bayern but primarily because Kompany only assigned two players as cover instead of the usual three so they could utilize the resulting 2v2 situations to the fullest - still, Bayern should have won that match easily. And so far, they profitted from not being the favorite in most of their smaller matches, IMO. If their opponents start to park the bus like they do against Bayern, Dortmund, Leipzig, Leverkusen and Stuttgartt, Marmoush and Ekitike will have much less space and Frankfurt will struggle to retain possession in a 4-4-2. And once that happens, what worked in their favor against Bayern suddenly works against them and they'll drop points despite having better chances here and there, too

That doesn't mean that they can't finish in the top 4, especially since Stuttgart is struggling heavily and Leipzig fell of a cliff (resultwise, they were shit from the start to be honest). But I have a completely different feeling with them compared to e. g. Stuttgart last season who presented themselves like a true top team in so many games and went toe to toe with the Bayern and us multiple times and did what they wanted with Dortmund.
 
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