Not a great result tonight but all is not lost.

Dj_Sydney_A

Guest
Ok, i've had my moments of laughter in other threads, but being serious for a moment...

As mentioned by various people already United have already gone to some difficult places and won this season (notably Deportivo).

You MUST score, probably will need to do so twice in Leverkusen, but let's face it, while your defending has let you down at times, the one thing you know you'll always do is score goals.
I personally wouldnt put it past you lot to score 3 over there.

Your defence will need to perform but you did so in the 1/4 finals, so there's no reason to suggest that you wont next tuesday.

Hopefully for you lot, keane will be fit to start in germany and his influence should keep you organised at the back.
I dont for a minute think you'll keep a clean sheet over there, but if you're reasonably solid, you shouldnt concede more than once.

Also remember that unlike when BL played Liverpool, next week they'll have the upper hand knowing that they dont have to score to beat you, merely that they have to stop you scoring.
But IMO this may work against them...since they dont have to come at United like they did Liverpool, i wouldnt be surprised if they sat back slightly in the opening 30 mins next tuesday, and if they do, this is united's chance.
You must go right at them straight from the off.
If you simply score a goal at anytime in the first half (assuming you dont concede one) they'll be shitting themselves.

With the likes of RVN, OGS, Giggs and Scholes (if he's fit), you have more than enough firepower to trouble them.
You just need a solid, composed performance from your defence and you'll be alright.
Tuesday will be a night for people like Keane, Blanc and Giggs to stand up and be counted and theyve all proven in the past that theyre more than capable.

I'm not going to patronise you with comments like 'itll be alright' etc...i dont know whether you'll get the job done next week or not...but what i DO know is that, like Liverpool, Manchester United ARE better than Leverkusen and SHOULD get the result they need.

It wasnt an ideal result tonight, but dont give up...believe in your lads and they may well do you proud.
Get behind them guys, because if they ever needed your support, it is certainly now (and next tuesday.)

This is a genuine message, i'm not taking the piss.

Obviously, as a liverpool fan i dont want united to win the CL, but it would be good for english football for you to get to the final.
I certainly dont want those within german football to start believing that theyre product is better than ours.
They somehow found their way past Arsenal and Liverpool, both of whom I believe are better than Leverkusen.
Dont let them do it to you as well.

Good luck for next Tuesday.
:)
 
Actually, only a last minute goal from Kirsten got them a home draw against 10 Arsenal men. Nevertheless, points well taken.

In a way, a 2-2 draw might be better for us than a 2-1 win (I thought the same against Juve in 99). When you take a goal lead you might be tempted to try and defend for it - but one goal changes everything. Now we have one clear target - Win at any result and we're though. No demons, just a football game that needs to be won.

Simple really. <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" />
 
Originally posted by farawaylands:
<strong>

no shit.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It was the first part of a point, not a point of its own...otherwise it'd be a rather simple/obvious fact ;)

But you'll score at least 2, i'm confident of that.
 
Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
But you'll score at least 2, i'm quite sure of that.
<hr></blockquote>

I am in double agreement with you tonight -- We must score 2 and probably will and all is not lost. A win will see us through!
 
Originally posted by United78:
<strong>

I am in double agreement with you tonight -- We must score 2 and probably will and all is not lost. A win will see us through!</strong><hr></blockquote>

The first goal will be crucial...you get it, and BL will poo themselves, knowing that one more and you'll have wiped out their away goals.

If they score first, you'll need the likes of Keane to make sure heads dont drop...if you DO concede first but Keane keeps the spirits up, i'd STILL be confident that you'd turn it around.
 
We can definitely still pull through but we do need to get a better handle on their midfielders, especially Ballack and Basturk. We do also need to take advantage of the fact that Lucio loves coming forward, good chance for us to catch them on the counter. We nearly did that tonight but just didn't enough width to do any real damage. Giggsy needs to get back to the left,and do what he does best, run with the ball at defenders.
 
Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>

The first goal will be crucial...you get it, and BL will poo themselves.</strong><hr></blockquote>

To be honest i dont think this team will poo themselves at anything, they are very strong, like ourselves, well capable of coming back from being a goal or two down as they have proved.

I would be happy if it was 0-0 at half time and we snatched a goal at about the 85th minute because you cant help but feel that if we score to early they will get it back. This is a tough game and we need to not get sucked into an open game like liverpool did, we need more possesion to control the game, impose ourselves on it, then slowly start to draw them out and open them up. easy to say, much harder in practise.
 
Ther Red Devils are still in with a fighting chance so let`s not act as if Leverkausen are already home and hosed as the Germans seem to think.

Manchester United have the experience to go to Germany and put 3 past their keeper while only conceding 1 or 2. Until the last whistle there is always a chance the Red Devils will win - remember Barcelona?!!!!

<img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
 
Originally posted by zippy:
<strong>

To be honest i dont think this team will poo themselves at anything, they are very strong, like ourselves, well capable of coming back from being a goal or two down as they have proved.

I would be happy if it was 0-0 at half time and we snatched a goal at about the 85th minute because you cant help but feel that if we score to early they will get it back. This is a tough game and we need to not get sucked into an open game like liverpool did, we need more possesion to control the game, impose ourselves on it, then slowly start to draw them out and open them up. easy to say, much harder in practise.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm not sure if a very open game won't be good for us, we've rarely lost high scoring games, also 3-3 would see us through.
 
Originally posted by zippy:
<strong>

To be honest i dont think this team will poo themselves at anything, they are very strong,

we need to not get sucked into an open game like liverpool did

we need more possesion to control the game, impose ourselves on it, </strong><hr></blockquote>

these are all really good points. i think we need to do exactly what bayer did at OT, posses the ball. a early lead would not settle my nerves at all, espcially if the circumstances were similar to the first leg (it would remind me of the liverpool game).
 
Bayer Leverkusen worked extremely hard tonight. They won the midfield battles, ran both sides of Manchester United wings crazy and got themselves goal-scoring chances that are usually not available to an away team if the home team dominates.

PLaying Veron and Ole in right and left of midfield is suicidal. Some of the players were playing in second gear and whining too much when they are dispossesed (Giggs).

Bayer Leverkusen were understimated my the Manchester United players which I think is plain arrogrance and suicidal because you see how they play in the Bay Arena and you wonder if its possible to win there.

The only chance for Manchester United is too score early goals (2 the least). The only problem is Liverpool did score goals, but Bayer seem to just get back. Don't ever under-estimate the tenacity of German teams. They never give up.

Possesion is the key thing. If Manchester United keep it away from Bayer, then there is a chance. If you let them have the ball too much, then good bye to Hampden Park.

Klaus Topmoller put together a very worrying combination for opposition. He mixed South American flair and technical ability in attacking (especially from wide areas) with German organization and tenacity (hence even though their flair players attack, there is always cover).

:(
 
You'll certainly get chances over there....they attacked us far more ( no shit Davo...) at their gaff, leaving gaps...and normally we'd have taken such chances..

So I don't think this is over yet...

That said you've got to fancy them to score..

I'd suggest you play Keane instead of Veron..

At the end of the day you were fortunate to get a draw..it could have been much worse
 
Originally posted by zippy:
<strong>

To be honest i dont think this team will poo themselves at anything, they are very strong, like ourselves, well capable of coming back from being a goal or two down as they have proved.

I would be happy if it was 0-0 at half time and we snatched a goal at about the 85th minute because you cant help but feel that if we score to early they will get it back. This is a tough game and we need to not get sucked into an open game like liverpool did, we need more possesion to control the game, impose ourselves on it, then slowly start to draw them out and open them up. easy to say, much harder in practise.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think they WOULD panic if you came at them from the off and scored 1st...

Dont get me wrong, theyre a strong side but this IS the Champions League...
however, i STILL dont go along with this 'Leverkusen are great' theory...theyre good, but we (Liverpool) could (and SHOULD) have beaten them...we missed GLORIOUS chances which you get punished for at this level, WHOEVER you play.

IMO, United suffered from giving the Germans too MUCH respect...you allowed them to control possession and win the midfield...this might be because of having seen the way they played against liverpool, but nonetheless i feel united should have remembered just who were the Champions League debutants and who were the CL veterans...

I dont rate BL as a great side...what i mean by this, is that theyre not a side who should be seriously challenging for or winning the CL...the likes of Real Madrid, Man Utd, Deportivo, Barcelona are a CONSIDERABLE level higher than Leverkusen in terms of the CL...teams like BL (and i'd include Liverpool too) are at that stage of being one 'grade' below the top sides (in terms of the champions league)...so i dont think we should be giving BL too much credit or overestimating them...
Theyre good, but there's no way in hell (in terms of quality) that they should knock United out of the CL...

United are SO much better than Leverkusen, as are IMO Depor and Bayern Munich, yet both of those went out at the 1/4 finals.

I also think Liverpool and Arsenal are better than BL, but things didnt go the way of either of them.

Basically, BL are not a European giant...theyre having a great campaign, but so did Leeds...
If United go to germany on tuesday BELIEVING in their own quality and not falling into the trap of fearing or over-respecting BL, then they'll get the job done.

Also, as someone else said, an open game would be of more benefit to you than a tight one...you stand a fair/good chance of winning 3-2 or drawing 3-3...your chance of keeping a clean sheet and winning 1-0 or 2-0 is much less IMO cause BL are good going forward, especially at home...but your front line is lethal at times and you should easily expose their weak defence...you'll get many chances, i'm sure...United must just ensure that unlike Liverpool, THEY take their opportunities.

Good luck again...IMO you'll go through AND you'll perform well enough to deserve it.