Nordic Ghost Yeti (Scandi Carroll) | Haaland at City

VorZakone said:
But Ten Hag wants to play Guardiola-esque football. So if Haaland came to Utd then no doubt we'd be hearing comparisons to Van Nistelrooy of how he limits fluidity.
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I feel like in the last few years, it's almost as if everyone's lost sight of a traditional coaches role.

His role is to actually just win games, and getting the most out of a lethal goalscorer throughout the history of football has generally proved to be an incredibly successful strategy. Guardiola is nowhere near as dogmatic as people think. He adapts and generally finds a way of making things work - whether that's having a striker like Aguero, or winning with Ilkay Gundogan topscoring for him.

If you go by the profile of his Barcelona team, Kevin De Bruyne is the antithesis of a Guardiola midfielder. He averages a pass % in the 70s - who'd ever have thought that was a Guardiola midfielder?
 
MayosNoun said:
I can see him volleying Foden before the season ends. How many times has Haaland had a tap in now and Foden has refused to pass to him? He looked fuming on each occasion too.
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Andrade said:
It was very bizarre how Foden so often opted for some weak, low percentage shot when he could have passed it to Haaland for an easy finish. Does he feel threatened by Haaland's arrival or something? My sensible head says that there's no way he can be that pathetic, but I do wonder......
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Foden will be dropped if he continues that. Mahrez or Grealish will come in and rightly so.

Incredible idiocy from Foden in both of their last 2 matches.

Know your place, Phil!
 
troylocker said:
It was 100% hypothetical, but the thought was obviously to put the same/similar teams (Teams capable of scoring 150+ goals a season, season in and season out) around Haaland as Messi and Ronaldo had around them in their primes there. You don't bench the best goalscorer in the world if the results are good and the spirit in the team is good.

You keep on mentioning how he doesn't contribute in the linkup play, but he's actually very good at finding his teammates in good scoring positions. He won't drop deep very often to just move the ball around though. Did you know that he had the highest xA/90 (expected assists per 90 minutes) of all the players with more than 500 minutes or more at Dortmund last season, with 0,28, due to his vertical and direct playing style? Higher than the likes of Lewandowski (0,14), Reus (0,27), Kane (0,27), Son (0,23), Mane (0,17), Jota (0,22), Firmino (0,20), Havertz (0,13), Mount (0,27), Ronaldo (0,16), Vardy (0,08), Saka (0,23), Laca (0,16), B. Silva (0,21), Mahrez (0,24), Stirling (0,21), Immobile (0,09), Vlahovic (0,10), Lautaro(0,14) Osimhen (0,10) Tammy (0,13), Suarez (0,09), Griezmann (0,17), Auba (0,11), Depay (0,23), Coutinho (0,15) etc. Same as Jesus (0,28) and only just pipped by Benzema (0,31), Vini (0,31), Salah (0,32) for instance..

I certainly agree with you that the most important objective for a player must be to improve the entire teams output and results through his role, presence and qualities on the pitch.
It remains to be seen if City becomes better with him or not. Three games in is too early, but unfortunately I think he's the final piece of the puzzle for them.
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Yes, he's decent at assisting and linkup play but those disciplines still pale in comparison to his goal scoring. Plus, he can have really, really quiet games in which he seems totally isolated.

But you're right, it is too early to tell. I'm just not fully sold on him being the missing piece in the puzzle. One way or another, he definitely brings fresh wind to City and maybe that's something a team needs every few years.
He'sRaldo said:
@Zehner weren’t you vehemently defending Sancho in the other thread? Meanwhile Haaland has almost equaled his entire 20/21 contributions in just 3 games…

I get your general point, but at what point is it just intellectualism/bias towards pretty technique to bang on about all round play while he’s clearly had a very effective start for a young PL striker?
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You call it bias towards pretty technique but I believe that there's more to it than just aesthetics. When you look at City's attacking patterns, they are scoring lots and lots of easy goals within the box by lots and lots of different players. They have 7 or 8 positions that suddenly can make a run into a typical striker area around the penalty area to score a tap in. Their whole style depends on fluidity, interchanging positions, etc. But Haaland isn't really fluid. He occupies central areas and rarely leaves them, even if he doesn't see much of the ball. Which makes the attack more static. A more mobile striker who drops deep or makes runs to the wing creates more space for the rest of the team, even if this means he's scoring less.

I mean, it is very hard to predict but I believe there'smore and more indication (not evidence) that these type of static strikers don't really elevate you as much as people expect based on their goal records. There have been a bunch of examples lately, for example Liverpool and City being two of the very best teams in the world playing with false 9s, Bayern seemingly not needing Lewandowski at all, Chelsea winning the UCL without a striker (and Lukaku actually making them worse), Cristiano Ronaldo scoring at will but seemingly to the detriment of the team at Juventus and United, etc.

When you play good football, the goals will come automatically, IMO.
 
For a supposed potential world class player Foden is stalling hard. Something we see happening time and time again with English players.
 
Kostov said:
Have you ever seen Benzema play football? Bad link up play and first touch?
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And my point was perhaps to say it seems like people who complain about Haalands link up play haven’t watched him play. They only repeat what others have said, and more and more people starts to believe fake news.

After watching the game yesterday I have to say people hasn’t much to complain about regarding Haalands link up play and touch so far. It was brilliant, and I think even Benzema would’ve been proud.
 
It wasn't long ago that the idea of a striker who didn't contribute much to the build-up and was primarily there as a pure finisher was very common. Somehow that's now being used as a stick to beat him with. If we're being honest, it's just about finding ways to criticise him.
 
abundance said:
Haaland himself may not stay there for too long.
He requested two release clauses in his contract, one for 2024 and another one for 2025
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Do you seriously think City missing out on Champions League football two seasons in a row is likely?
 
Adam-Utd said:
He's pretty much what we all expected really.

Not involved in the game much, but comes alive around the box or with balls in behind.

Top class movement and predatory instincts.

Has he made city a better team? debateable - but he's a different option.
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I wouldn't say it's debatable, I'd say it's not a debate you can even have until he's been playing for at least a few months. Three league games is definitely not a good sample size.
 
Noot said:
It wasn't long ago that the idea of a striker who didn't contribute much to the build-up and was primarily there as a pure finisher was very common. Somehow that's now being used as a stick to beat him with. If we're being honest, it's just about finding ways to criticise him.
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Almost as though the way the game has changed since Inzaghi et al were the prototype for a striker. What’s next? A goalkeeper who’s an expert at picking up back passes?
 
Zehner said:
Yes, he's decent at assisting and linkup play but those disciplines still pale in comparison to his goal scoring. Plus, he can have really, really quiet games in which he seems totally isolated.

But you're right, it is too early to tell. I'm just not fully sold on him being the missing piece in the puzzle. One way or another, he definitely brings fresh wind to City and maybe that's something a team needs every few years.


You call it bias towards pretty technique but I believe that there's more to it than just aesthetics. When you look at City's attacking patterns, they are scoring lots and lots of easy goals within the box by lots and lots of different players. They have 7 or 8 positions that suddenly can make a run into a typical striker area around the penalty area to score a tap in. Their whole style depends on fluidity, interchanging positions, etc. But Haaland isn't really fluid. He occupies central areas and rarely leaves them, even if he doesn't see much of the ball. Which makes the attack more static. A more mobile striker who drops deep or makes runs to the wing creates more space for the rest of the team, even if this means he's scoring less.

I mean, it is very hard to predict but I believe there'smore and more indication (not evidence) that these type of static strikers don't really elevate you as much as people expect based on their goal records. There have been a bunch of examples lately, for example Liverpool and City being two of the very best teams in the world playing with false 9s, Bayern seemingly not needing Lewandowski at all, Chelsea winning the UCL without a striker (and Lukaku actually making them worse), Cristiano Ronaldo scoring at will but seemingly to the detriment of the team at Juventus and United, etc.

When you play good football, the goals will come automatically, IMO.
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Well, historically City has scored significantly less when they haven't fielded a clear top striker. 17/18 through 19/20 they scored 106, 95 and 102 - an average of 101 goals. In the past two seasons, when they've lacked a clear top striker, they scored 83 and 99, or an average of 91. This year's pace is 114 (I know, very small sample).

And in any case, Jürgen Klopp, Pep Guardiola and Thomas Tuchel all appear to disagree with you, seeing as they've all made huge investments in exactly this kind of striker over the past two summer windows.
 
Noot said:
Do you seriously think City missing out on Champions League football two seasons in a row is likely?
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Do you mean that it has anything to do with the activation of the clauses?
I haven't read anything about that anywhere.
 
Noot said:
It wasn't long ago that the idea of a striker who didn't contribute much to the build-up and was primarily there as a pure finisher was very common. Somehow that's now being used as a stick to beat him with. If we're being honest, it's just about finding ways to criticise him.
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I agree with this.

Here's one way of looking at it: Is completeness really what you're looking for in a striker? This is after all, and despite the increasing complexity of the game, the outfield position most focused on a single aspect of the game - no one has ever been regarded as a great striker without scoring a lot of goals. Hence, the great value placed on possessing the kind of skills that provides advantages in that respect.

Haaland has at least five attributes that are absolutely top shelf - pace, power, explosiveness, movement and finishing ability. The first three of those are arguably not just top shelf, but beyond any shelf.

If you could sit down and design your own striker and could only choose five truly elite level attributes, would you exchange any of these for something else? It seems to me these are exactly the ones you'd be looking for.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Almost as though the way the game has changed since Inzaghi et al were the prototype for a striker. What’s next? A goalkeeper who’s an expert at picking up back passes?
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And Pep was a huge part of that change. If he wants to go back in the other direction he can. No doubt half the teams in Europe will follow if it's a success.
 
abundance said:
Do you mean that it has anything to do with the activation of the clauses?
I haven't read anything about that anywhere.
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Not your fault- people love to bring up the rumoured release clauses but always ignore the part about them being linked to specific sporting conditions, which has led to the assumption online that the clauses are unconditional and are purely there so Haaland can get a cheap move to Madrid in two years.
 
justsomebloke said:
Well, historically City has scored significantly less when they haven't fielded a clear top striker. 17/18 through 19/20 they scored 106, 95 and 102 - an average of 101 goals. In the past two seasons, when they've lacked a clear top striker, they scored 83 and 99, or an average of 91. This year's pace is 114 (I know, very small sample).

And in any case, Jürgen Klopp, Pep Guardiola and Thomas Tuchel all appear to disagree with you, seeing as they've all made huge investments in exactly this kind of striker over the past two summer windows.
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I don't think talking about the pure number of goals scored gives us the full picture.

Does a team with a true striker score more goals? Maybe, maybe not, but I don't think it matters much. When your fluid attack can score five or six goals it's nice and when the team scores the same amount with a true 9.

It get's interesting in those games were your fluid attack doesn't score and you need different means to solve the deadlock.

You don't need to score more goals over a full season, you need to score the goals in the crucial games.
 
Reminds me a little of LeBron James in terms of his agility and footwork being so good for someone his size. He's an absolute hulk of a player yet can dribble, turn and run like someone much lighter.
 
Polar said:
It’s impossible for Haaland to compete in the consistency category together with example Aguero.

The funny thing is that nobody talk down example Benzema because of his even worse link-up play and terrible first touch. Benzema is a killer inside the box and that’s it, and people don’t ask for more.

Benzema, Kane, Lew and Haaland are the best strikers in the world, and they are all pretty much on the same level with different extreme qualities.

We’ll likely never experience a Benzema, Kane, Haaland or Lew kind of player with Messi or Neymar technique or qualities in the buildup play or visa versus.
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Given what you were trying to do, this is a good post.

Many criticizing his all round play probably didn't watch him. His hold up play was quite good, and this is just his 3rd game in. Of course issues with fluidity and being in sync with teammates, but that will be ironed out as the season progresses.
 
justsomebloke said:
Well, historically City has scored significantly less when they haven't fielded a clear top striker. 17/18 through 19/20 they scored 106, 95 and 102 - an average of 101 goals. In the past two seasons, when they've lacked a clear top striker, they scored 83 and 99, or an average of 91. This year's pace is 114 (I know, very small sample).

And in any case, Jürgen Klopp, Pep Guardiola and Thomas Tuchel all appear to disagree with you, seeing as they've all made huge investments in exactly this kind of striker over the past two summer windows.
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Aguero was a 1,73m striker with great dribbling, low centre of gravity, excellent link up play and high agility. Haaland is much more static than that, a vastly different type of striker. On top, Aguero didn't even play that much in the seasons you mentioned: 2000 minutes in 17/18, 2500 in 18/19 and 1500 in 19/20.

And yes, they definitely seem to disagree. Still, Klopp's strikers of choice were Firmino (AM), Jota (LW) and Mané (LW) since joining Liverpool. It is the first time he tries bringing in a striker as a starter. And Guardiola got to the CL final without a striker, same as Tuchel. So I guess we just have to wait and see :)
 
justsomebloke said:
I agree with this.

Here's one way of looking at it: Is completeness really what you're looking for in a striker? This is after all, and despite the increasing complexity of the game, the outfield position most focused on a single aspect of the game - no one has ever been regarded as a great striker without scoring a lot of goals. Hence, the great value placed on possessing the kind of skills that provides advantages in that respect.

Haaland has at least five attributes that are absolutely top shelf - pace, power, explosiveness, movement and finishing ability. The first three of those are arguably not just top shelf, but beyond any shelf.

If you could sit down and design your own striker and could only choose five truly elite level attributes, would you exchange any of these for something else? It seems to me these are exactly the ones you'd be looking for.
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Hard to disagree with this.
 
RedRonaldo said:
He doesn’t need to hit one from 30 yards in this City team. He only need to put a few chances in and he will be 30+ goals a season striker there, if he stays fit.

The thing is, his accelerated run into the box is amazing, his strength is amazing, and these 2 alone will create himself alot of space and turn those half chance to real chance with him constantly running into great position to score.
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I agree with the above - but I don’t think it was a goal from nothing. It was a loose ball 6 yards out. He’s where good strikers should be
 
Anyone who still thinks he will struggle with the physicality in the PL?
 
2 for him today.

Even Pep fecking Guardiola isn't dogmatic enough to ignore a goalscorer of his talents for his 'system'. The system is there to win games, but a goal scorer like him as good as any system can be at helping you do that.
 
Nailed on to be top scorer this season. Despite looking like a randomized character from an Elder Scrolls game.
 
Will outscore easily everyone in the league. To no surprise to anyone actually.

It was either him or Nunez. Nunez with the suspension missed a good chance to score a couple today.
 
He isn't even playing well for his own standards but he still scores goals, even in the "super awesome best in the world" EPL. Going to be interesting to see what he can do if things really click between him and everyone else.
 
Skills said:
2 for him today.

Even Pep fecking Guardiola isn't dogmatic enough to ignore a goalscorer of his talents for his 'system'. The system is there to win games, but a goal scorer like him as good as any system can be at helping you do that.
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If anything, this "Pep doesn't play classic 9s" stuff is weird. Pep's done it with Lewandowski & he's doing it with Haaland. That's a testament to the quality of Haaland. He is a complete striker this guy
 
If only his father wasn't Haaland :lol:

Yesteryear, this would have been the type of player we would have signed.

Thats why its imperative we splash the cash on Antony/FDJ to ensure we at least make an effort to catchup in the talent race.
 
He's a shit hot, one off freak of a player. He'll get an average of (or at least nearly) a goal per game this season. The already brilliant City, just bought themselves the key to be dominant for the foreseeable future.

I've already accepted that our return to the top will not mean winning the league. It will mean competing. There is no shame in losing out to this group of players, nevermind the amazing manager they have.

Man City broke the PL.
 
JeffBoomTetris said:
If anything, this "Pep doesn't play classic 9s" stuff is weird. Pep's done it with Lewandowski & he's doing it with Haaland. That's a testament to the quality of Haaland. He is a complete striker this guy
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He did with Eto'o as well. Guardiola is actually fantastic at getting the best out of his best players - KDB for example is nothing like Xavi or Iniesta, yet he's managed to adapt to his strengths and weaknesses.
 
it is too disgusting that Haaland in that ManCity System. They will still outscore the league within this ten years if Pep is still in there.

We have a big missing when we had a chance to get him before he moved to Germany and cannot afford to pay under the table before he moved to City.
 
I bet those posters writing him off after his first two games look really silly now.

It was obvious some had only watched their first 90mins of him once he joined City. It was never in doubt that he would bag goals in this league and for City.
 
Adding Haaland to this City side is like cheating on Football Manager
 
El Jefe said:
I bet those posters writing him off after his first two games look really silly now.

It was obvious some had only watched their first 90mins of him once he joined City. It was never in doubt that he would bag goals in this league and for City.
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Specially when there was nothing to write off, the guy scored in his first 2 games. People cannot separate between wishful thinking and a fair prediction
 
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