Nordic Ghost Yeti (Scandi Carroll) | Haaland at City

mshnsh said:
There is some degree of nostalgia when it comes to L. Ronaldo, but it's impossible to accept that Haaland is the better footballer at 22.
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No he is not better footballer, but that's not what I am arguing here. If L.Ronaldo wasn't injured and maintain same peak level of football for a decade or so, he would be contender for GOAT for sure. But it wasn't the case, while Haaland does have all the possibilities here, to maintain that kind of form over next decade or so. By then, he could even have the chance to end up with higher GOAT standing than L.Ronaldo.

For now I would say he has made similar impact as L.Ronaldo at same age, although L.Ronaldo was clearly better footballer.
 
Messi played 5220 minutes the season he scored 73. Haaland is currently scored at a better per minute rate. In fact, if he plays that much, at his current rate, he'd break 80 goals in a season

That happens a few times, his teams win a few CL, and you're damn right he gets into goat convos - at least top 10
 
EliasRavelino said:
I read yesterday that Man City have a team of people on him 24/7 - Drs, nutritionists, physios and general 'minders' to safeguard their asset and ensure he is fit to play as much as possible.

I think Man Utd should do likewise with Martial.
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I think Martial's time has been and gone. He's officially a Terry Malloy now.
 
RedRonaldo said:
No he is not better footballer, but that's not what I am arguing here. If L.Ronaldo wasn't injured and maintain same peak level of football for a decade or so, he would be contender for GOAT for sure. But it wasn't the case, while Haaland does have all the possibilities here, to maintain that kind of form over next decade or so. By then, he could even have the chance to end up with higher GOAT standing than L.Ronaldo.

For now I would say he has made similar impact as L.Ronaldo at same age, although L.Ronaldo was clearly better footballer.
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Similar impact by the age of 22? Ronaldo at that age had already won a Balon Dor (and come 2nd) and had a couple of World player of the year awards. He'd won a host of cups already, and was impeccable alongside Rivaldo as Brazil won Copa 99. Not to mention World Cup 98 where he was awarded Best Player. Add on top that he was playing at a superhuman level (all time greats like Maldini, Desailly and Nesta spoke of how great he was).
You think Haaland up until now has matched that?
 
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giorno said:
Messi played 5220 minutes the season he scored 73. Haaland is currently scored at a better per minute rate. In fact, if he plays that much, at his current rate, he'd break 80 goals in a season

That happens a few times, his teams win a few CL, and you're damn right he gets into goat convos - at least top 10
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Its also fair to say he'll never be able to play those kinda minutes, similar to Aguero (whom I love). Some players bodies just aren't capable of that amount of football.
Kun for example had pre-Haaland, far and away the best goals per minute ration in PL history, no one came close but he only won one golden boot and only got in tots once, despite being clearly the best goal scorer in the league.
While it sucks for Sergio as good as he was, the difference between himself and Suarez will always be Suarez was made of iron and Kun had glass hamstrings.

We've managed Erlings minutes super hard this season so he doesn't break down (as he has every other season). One of the caveats that will come with Erling is he's never gonna be able to play 5k minutes in a season and availability is important. Truth be told had Pep not been so hard on his minutes, he may be closer to 50 goals than 40, but he also may have missed a lot more than 2 league games.
 
Libero_of_Yore said:
Similar impact by the age of 22? Ronaldo at that age had already won a Balon Dor (and come 2nd) and had a couple of World player of the year awards. He'd won a host of cups already, and was impeccable alongside Rivaldo as Brazil won Copa 99. Not to mention World Cup 98 where he was awarded Best Player. Add on top that he was playing at a superhuman level (all time greats like Maldini, Desailly and Nesta spoke of how great he was).
You think Haaland up until now has matched that?
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It's not Haalands fault he doesn't play for one of the best national teams in the world to do all that, while Ronaldo got to start playing for Brazil when they were world champions.
 
Libero_of_Yore said:
Similar impact by the age of 22? Ronaldo at that age had already won a Balon Dor (and come 2nd) and had a couple of World player of the year awards. He'd won a host of cups already, and was impeccable alongside Rivaldo as Brazil won Copa 99. Not to mention World Cup 98 where he was awarded Best Player. Add on top that he was playing at a superhuman level (all time greats like Maldini, Desailly and Nesta spoke of how great he was).
You think Haaland up until now has matched that?
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Yes, Haaland has been scoring goals in unseen rate at the highest level of competitions in CL and PL (best league in the world). No defenders could stop him in this league and in Europe over past few years. And I think he is surely contender for Ballon D'or this year, especially if City is going to win the treble (might even win it if not for Messi finally winning WC to solidify his GOAT status). I really think he has made similar impact as L.Ronaldo at the same age, although he is not anywhere near as talented.

While L.Ronaldo has been truly extraordinary at Barca (but failed to win the league though), and his first season in Inter (scored less goals than Bierhoff though, and failed to win the league again), and was also outstanding in the WC (failed to win the WC flopping badly in the final though). Consider all that, I don't think L.Ronaldo has made bigger impact than Haaland at the same age (assuming City will end up winning a few major trophies this year).

Individually L.Ronaldo at his very peak is always easily the better player, but I would say they have both made similar impact, being so dominant at their own game and being so important to their team.
 
T_Model101 said:
Daily Mail said today he was on £895k a week
Probably their most accurate reporting all year :lol:
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This is probably about right, but his 'official' payment will be more like £250,000 per week - the rest will be hidden to meet FFP regulations. This is not a dig at City by-the-way, I bet loads of top clubs do it.
 
padr81 said:
Its also fair to say he'll never be able to play those kinda minutes, similar to Aguero (whom I love). Some players bodies just aren't capable of that amount of football.
Kun for example had pre-Haaland, far and away the best goals per minute ration in PL history, no one came close but he only won one golden boot and only got in tots once, despite being clearly the best goal scorer in the league.
While it sucks for Sergio as good as he was, the difference between himself and Suarez will always be Suarez was made of iron and Kun had glass hamstrings.

We've managed Erlings minutes super hard this season so he doesn't break down (as he has every other season). One of the caveats that will come with Erling is he's never gonna be able to play 5k minutes in a season and availability is important. Truth be told had Pep not been so hard on his minutes, he may be closer to 50 goals than 40, but he also may have missed a lot more than 2 league games.
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Maybe you are right about Haaland's body. It's good that you mention Aguero though. The best goalscorer in PL history in terms of scoring rate? And he never came even close to what Haaland is doing this season
 
RedRonaldo said:
Well as I've said, there's recency bias there as most people today wouldn't have chance to watch Muller play week in week out. Plus there's also nostalgia reason, as peak L.Ronaldo, in most people's mind, could have the talent/career to match that of Pele. Its a pity he was badly injured for years, and never the same player again. And thirdly, the fact that Cruyff and Beckenbauer were playing in the same era as Muller, means that he wasn't even considered the best player during his time (early mid 70s), while L.Ronaldo was clearly the best player during his time (mid late 90s during his very peak, before his injuries).

Should there be no real challenge for best players title during Haaland time (Well Mbappe could be his challenge though), he could be regarded as the best player in mid late 2020s, that would give him big advantage over L.Ronaldo to be regarded as best no.9 ever should he score insane no. of goals over next decades or so.
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The problem is that even though Mbappe is a better footballer than Haaland, he is not so much better that it makes debate redundant. If L. Ronaldo was playing now vs Haaland, it would be pretty clear that he was way above Haaland. Mbappe is compared to L. Ronaldo a lot but he is not Ronaldo.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Well as I've said, there's recency bias there as most people today wouldn't have chance to watch Muller play week in week out. Plus there's also nostalgia reason, as peak L.Ronaldo, in most people's mind, could have the talent/career to match that of Pele. Its a pity he was badly injured for years, and never the same player again. And thirdly, the fact that Cruyff and Beckenbauer were playing in the same era as Muller, means that he wasn't even considered the best player during his time (early mid 70s), while L.Ronaldo was clearly the best player during his time (mid late 90s during his very peak, before his injuries).

Should there be no real challenge for best players title during Haaland time (Well Mbappe could be his challenge though), he could be regarded as the best player in mid late 2020s, that would give him big advantage over L.Ronaldo to be regarded as best no.9 ever should he score insane no. of goals over next decades or so.
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No surprise a huge Cristiano fan puts too much emphasis on goals and completely disregards other factors, Haaland isn't R9 and he isn't better than Mbappe either, he can become the best goalscorer of all time without actually being in the conversation of the greatest player of all time, see Muller for reference.
 
Righteous Steps said:
No surprise a huge Cristiano fan puts too much emphasis on goals and completely disregards other factors, Haaland isn't R9 and he isn't better than Mbappe either, he can become the best goalscorer of all time without actually being in the conversation of the greatest player of all time, see Muller for reference.
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It depends how many you're scoring though, obviously if a player scored 100 goals a season, they'd be the best player ever, even if they couldn't dribble, pass or tackle worth a damn. If haaland keeps improving his scoring rate and maintains that level for a decade or more (obviously both those things are massive asks) then he's clearly going to be in the conversation for best of all time even if certain aspects of his game are limited
 
Not sure why people keep mentioning Mbappe, he can barely outscore Lacazette in Ligue 1.
 
Righteous Steps said:
No surprise a huge Cristiano fan puts too much emphasis on goals and completely disregards other factors, Haaland isn't R9 and he isn't better than Mbappe either, he can become the best goalscorer of all time without actually being in the conversation of the greatest player of all time, see Muller for reference.
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Well first of all it just isn't only about goals. Haaland's pace, strength and physicality is simply out of this world, there's simply no way for defenders to defend him properly and stop him from scoring goals. This is something which get largely overlooked here, as people just want to see him as a pure poacher and nothing else, which isn't true.

And well there's nothing to do with Cristiano here, as I considered him to be far more talented and skilful than the likes of Haaland or Muller. If we were to compare Cristiano with another player with similar style of play/talent, it would be more like a Mbappe or Henry or even to some extent Cruyff type of talent during his respective peak, but apparently Cristiano is still better/greater player, as he was far more clinical, consistence, more all rounded, and far more successful.

Its just that I am really sick and tired of people downplaying Haaland as a footballer because he isn't the conventional type of attacker people like to watch. What Haaland has done this season is simply breathtaking and deserves more credits here.

And I don't really understand why some poeople can only accept a specific conventional type of player to be considered best in the game. Football is by all means a competitive sports, whoever reached the highest level of dominance in the game in terms of his individual impact in this competitive sport, should be judged equally as good.
 
Not saying they don't count but I'd wager over 50% of his goals are 'meaningless' 3rd, 4th, 5th etc goals that don't especially contribute to the win. I'd be interested to see how many of his goals this year are winning goals.

Does he do anything for Norway like Ibra did for Sweden?
 
Andrade said:
The problem is that even though Mbappe is a better footballer than Haaland, he is not so much better that it makes debate redundant. If L. Ronaldo was playing now vs Haaland, it would be pretty clear that he was way above Haaland. Mbappe is compared to L. Ronaldo a lot but he is not Ronaldo.
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The problem here is, some people just forgot football is actually a competitive sport. It doesn't matter how talented the player is, if the player isn't as "competitive" as another player in the game, who are considered to be lesser talent.

But some of you doesn't have this in mind, you just tend to judge the player purely down to his talent/overall ability, but unfortunately thats not how this sport works, players actually play to win the game by making actual impact on the field, but not like those gymnast who gets their score from the judge out of how perfectly they did their routine.

In terms of competitiveness, I would consider Haaland as the best player in the world currently.
 
Ibrahimorich said:
Not saying they don't count but I'd wager over 50% of his goals are 'meaningless' 3rd, 4th, 5th etc goals that don't especially contribute to the win. I'd be interested to see how many of his goals this year are winning goals.

Does he do anything for Norway like Ibra did for Sweden?
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By age 23 Ibrahimovic had played 19 matches and scored 6 goals.

Haaland has yet to turn 23, and has scored 21 in 23.
 
Ibrahimorich said:
Not saying they don't count but I'd wager over 50% of his goals are 'meaningless' 3rd, 4th, 5th etc goals that don't especially contribute to the win. I'd be interested to see how many of his goals this year are winning goals.

Does he do anything for Norway like Ibra did for Sweden?
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Their goal difference is +50, of course he scores more 'meaningless' goals than winning goals. It's a point that isn't relevant at all in my opinion, sometimes he gets the winner and sometimes they end up meaningless.
 
Ibrahimorich said:
Not saying they don't count but I'd wager over 50% of his goals are 'meaningless' 3rd, 4th, 5th etc goals that don't especially contribute to the win. I'd be interested to see how many of his goals this year are winning goals.

Does he do anything for Norway like Ibra did for Sweden?
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I hate City but some people are literally doing anything to pull this guy down. Now only winning goals count.
Also apart from that mad overhead kick against England, what did Ibra do for Sweden. I must been asleep during those WC and Euros runs. :lol:
 
RedRonaldo said:
The problem here is, some people just forgot football is actually a competitive sport. It doesn't matter how talented the player is, if the player isn't as "competitive" as another player in the game, who are considered to be lesser talent.

But some of you doesn't have this in mind, you just tend to judge the player purely down to his talent/overall ability, but unfortunately thats not how this sport works, players actually play to win the game by making actual impact on the field, but not like those gymnast who gets their score from the judge out of how perfectly they did their routine.

In terms of competitiveness, I would consider Haaland as the best player in the world currently.
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Nothing you've said here makes any sense, nor did it have anything to do with what I said. 'In terms of competitiveness, Haaland is the best player in the world'?!?! What does that even mean?!
 
giorno said:
Messi played 5220 minutes the season he scored 73. Haaland is currently scored at a better per minute rate. In fact, if he plays that much, at his current rate, he'd break 80 goals in a season

That happens a few times, his teams win a few CL, and you're damn right he gets into goat convos - at least top 10
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Yeah but Messi is a genius with the ball at his feet.
Haaland is a machine. He will surely be one of the best goal scorer ever if not the best, but that’s not enough for me to be seen as of of the greatest. He will never do what Pelé, Messi, Maradona, Ronaldo 9, Best were doing on the football pitch.
Ronaldinho was one of this player who didn’t have great stats overall but he makes the football great to watch.
 
Righteous Steps said:
No surprise a huge Cristiano fan puts too much emphasis on goals and completely disregards other factors, Haaland isn't R9 and he isn't better than Mbappe either, he can become the best goalscorer of all time without actually being in the conversation of the greatest player of all time, see Muller for reference.
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I get what you're saying and it makes sense. It is always CR7 fans who seem to want to try and convince everyone that the person who scores the most goals is automatically the best player, irrespective of anything else they do on the pitch.

By the way, I've nothing against Haaland, I watched him at Dortmund and I was on here predicting that he would bully this league when a lot of people were adamant that he would flop in the PL. But the 'only goals matter' crowd are just funny to me. Closely allied with the 'dribbling and passing are overrated' club. One wonders if these people have ever actually tried to play football themselves.....
 
Andrade said:
Nothing you've said here makes any sense, nor did it have anything to do with what I said. 'In terms of competitiveness, Haaland is the best player in the world'?!?! What does that even mean?!
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It seems quite self explanatory, a player who has the most impact on his teams results can be considered the best in the world, rather than it being based on who is the most skilled player. The most effective player is usually more useful
 
jm99 said:
It seems quite self explanatory, a player who has the most impact on his teams results can be considered the best in the world, rather than it being based on who is the most skilled player. The most effective player is usually more useful
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Ok, if that's what he was saying then how exactly does Haaland have more impact on his team's results than Mbappe?
 
Andrade said:
Ok, if that's what he was saying then how exactly does Haaland have more impact on his team's results than Mbappe?
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Well I guess he scored 6 goals in the knockout stages of the champions league so far, while mbappe disappeared. He scored a hat trick against us, scored against arsenal etc. I'm not saying he's better than mbappe or even that he is definitely more effective (though this season I'm pretty sure he has been) but i was just saying that it's possible for haaland to be the best player in the world based on effectiveness, even if less talented
 
Remember when City made a mistake buying him, Haaland didn't suit the team and all that?

Good times, though they didn't last very long.
 
jm99 said:
Well I guess he scored 6 goals in the knockout stages of the champions league so far, while mbappe disappeared. He scored a hat trick against us, scored against arsenal etc. I'm not saying he's better than mbappe or even that he is definitely more effective (though this season I'm pretty sure he has been) but i was just saying that it's possible for haaland to be the best player in the world based on effectiveness, even if less talented
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So because Haaland scores more goals in the CL KOs in one season in a better team then he is more effective?
 
giorno said:
Maybe you are right about Haaland's body. It's good that you mention Aguero though. The best goalscorer in PL history in terms of scoring rate? And he never came even close to what Haaland is doing this season
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It's scary how good he is at scoring goals. Robotic, the fact it's more of a shock for him to draw a blank than get a hattrick sums it up.
 
Morty_ said:
Remember when City made a mistake buying him, Haaland didn't suit the team and all that?

Good times, though they didn't last very long.
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There was a little redux of that a few weeks ago when everyone was saying that he'd scored lots of goals but made City worse and that's why Arsenal were so far ahead. Funny how short people's memories are.
 
Andrade said:
So because Haaland scores more goals in the CL KOs in one season in a better team then he is more effective?
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No if you read the rest of my post I actually say I'm not saying he is definitely more effective, just that it's possible to be a better player through being more effective rather than more skilled.

Though given what haaland is doing in the Premier league compared to mbappe doing less in a weaker league, and haaland having a better champions league record despite playing for weaker sides for much of his champions league days, there's probably a decent argument that he is more effective
 
Ladron de redcafe said:
I think people are being overly critical. Failing to become the single greatest footballer ever isn't a failure. He's never going to be Messi or Maradona, but what's wrong with breaking into the top 10.

I think the comparison with Muller is a little off-base because Muller was playing with someone who was clearly a better footballer in the same time period, which "hurt" his legacy. With Haaland, there's no teammate of his who is regarded as a better player (and probably no other player on the planet besides possibly Mbappe as we move forward. This will in all likelihood by Messi's last great year).

So Haaland has a good chance of getting multiple balon dor's and that will help his legacy.
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If anything, the English media are hyping him to no end. I wish you'd read what some of the pundits are saying about him.
Righteous Steps said:
No surprise a huge Cristiano fan puts too much emphasis on goals and completely disregards other factors, Haaland isn't R9 and he isn't better than Mbappe either, he can become the best goalscorer of all time without actually being in the conversation of the greatest player of all time, see Muller for reference.
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Yup no surprises there.
 
jm99 said:
It depends how many you're scoring though, obviously if a player scored 100 goals a season, they'd be the best player ever, even if they couldn't dribble, pass or tackle worth a damn. If haaland keeps improving his scoring rate and maintains that level for a decade or more (obviously both those things are massive asks) then he's clearly going to be in the conversation for best of all time even if certain aspects of his game are limited
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Do you know how many Muller scored, his scoring rate and for how long? Muller had like 12 seasons of scoring at an outstanding rate and won it all including multiple leagues, CLs, a World cup and European Championship and still doesn't get regularly mentioned with the likes of Pele and Maradona?

Its actually probably a sign of our current era where a goal poacher however good he is can be in the argument of greatest player of all time, when the likes of Muller took the 70's by storm with relentless scoring themselves and very rarely get mentioned with other players who have a more rounded game, Messi himself had 10+ seasons of outrageous scoring as well as dribbling playmaking and assisting so it doesn't matter if Haaland keeps this level up for the next 10 seasons in my eyes, he still doesn't have the ability to be mentioned in the same breath all round, he is not the first supreme scorer to grace this sport, others have come before him and two of them in Pele and Messi had all time great dribbling playmaking and all round games to go along with it.
 
Andrade said:
I get what you're saying and it makes sense. It is always CR7 fans who seem to want to try and convince everyone that the person who scores the most goals is automatically the best player, irrespective of anything else they do on the pitch.

By the way, I've nothing against Haaland, I watched him at Dortmund and I was on here predicting that he would bully this league when a lot of people were adamant that he would flop in the PL. But the 'only goals matter' crowd are just funny to me. Closely allied with the 'dribbling and passing are overrated' club. One wonders if these people have ever actually tried to play football themselves.....
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Exactly.
 
jm99 said:
No if you read the rest of my post I actually say I'm not saying he is definitely more effective, just that it's possible to be a better player through being more effective rather than more skilled.

Though given what haaland is doing in the Premier league compared to mbappe doing less in a weaker league, and haaland having a better champions league record despite playing for weaker sides for much of his champions league days, there's probably a decent argument that he is more effective
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Basically, it's another C.Ronaldo fan equating 'effectiveness', with 'goals'. What about assists? Pre-assists? Chances created? Big chances created? Key passes? Passes in the final third? Touches on the ball? Thousands and thousands of actions go into affecting or determining a football match.

Shall we mention the fact that Mbappe won the league with Monaco? What has Haaland won with Dortmund? What has Haaland won at all for all this supposed 'effectiveness'?

'Effective' is a very broad word, you can't just count up the goals and determine that the person with the most is the most 'effective'. That doesn't make any sense.
 
I was so wrong about him, he is unbeliveable.
 
Righteous Steps said:
Do you know how many Muller scored, his scoring rate and for how long? Muller had like 12 seasons of scoring at an outstanding rate and won it all including multiple leagues, CLs, a World cup and European Championship and still doesn't get regularly mentioned with the likes of Pele and Maradona?

Its actually probably a sign of our current era where a goal poacher however good he is can be in the argument of greatest player of all time, when the likes of Muller took the 70's by storm with relentless scoring themselves and very rarely get mentioned with other players who have a more rounded game, Messi himself had 10+ seasons of outrageous scoring as well as dribbling playmaking and assisting so it doesn't matter if Haaland keeps this level up for the next 10 seasons in my eyes, he still doesn't have the ability to be mentioned in the same breath all round, he is not the first supreme scorer to grace this sport, others have come before him and two of them in Pele and Messi had all time great dribbling playmaking and all round games to go along with it.
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Muller is a balloon D'Or winner and nominee, he surely isn't on Beckenbauer or Cruyff level, but he belongs to a top 15 of all time.

That isn't a bad thing, unless you believe that not being as rich as Jeff Bezos or Bill Gates is a failure.
 
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