And yet Maradona actually scored a lot for his time. The guy has over 300 career goals. Very few players in history have twice or three times the career goals of Maradona actually. He was one of the most prolific players of his time pretty much everywhere he went
Nordic Ghost Yeti (Scandi Carroll) | Haaland at City
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The question was made in the context of the average player preferring to win a World Cup over any club competition.
You've gone off and made a strawman about players faking injuries to miss random international games and retiring early from international football but not club football instead (???).
None of that proves anything with regards to preferring to win CL/league titles over World Cups. If anything, you are arguing they prioritise their job and source of income over the -in most cases- fruitless pursuit of World Cup glory, which no one is denying. No shit Sherlock and all that.
He’ll be an all time great as Muller. Muller was important in football history and his scoring records still stand apart to this day.
Haaland can be the best goalscorer ever - as Muller was accepted to be. Zidane even if he scored very few goals was not doubt a better player than either.
I’m not even going to compare a poacher to Messi or Maradona.
You can’t get close to what they could do on a pitch unless you are basically the new Messi. Give it 30 years, maybe more
Did you see him play?
Haaland if he continues like this will definitely be an all time great, of that there is no doubt. But no one is ever going to say he's in the discussion for the greatest player of all time. I've seen many games this season where I thought he didn't even look like the best player on his own team. Which is not to say that he definitely isn't, but the all round performance is just not sufficient for him to be considered one of the very very best by the time he's done.He’ll be an all time great as Muller. Muller was important in football history and his scoring records still stand apart to this day.
Haaland can be the best goalscorer ever - as Muller was accepted to be. Zidane even if he scored very few goals was not doubt a better player than either.
I’m not even going to compare a poacher to Messi or Maradona.
You can’t get close to what they could do on a pitch unless you are basically the new Messi. Give it 30 years, maybe more
Yes. And? Maradona's biggest claim to GOAT is the 1986 world cup, a tournament in which he scored 5 goals(2nd most). He came out of Argentina with "next Pelé" hype because in Argentina he scored for fun. Went to Barcelona, kept scoring for fun. Only at Napoli his goalscoring rate dipped and that's clearly down to the league, as he was consistently among the league's top scorers
Maradona would not have been Maradona without the goals, no matter how great a playmaker he was
He’ll be an all time great as Muller. Muller was important in football history and his scoring records still stand apart to this day.
Haaland can be the best goalscorer ever - as Muller was accepted to be. Zidane even if he scored very few goals was not doubt a better player than either.
I’m not even going to compare a poacher to Messi or Maradona.
You can’t get close to what they could do on a pitch unless you are basically the new Messi. Give it 30 years, maybe more
I think you’re downplaying Muller here.
Over a 5-year period from 1969 he was named one of the top 3 players in the world in 4/5 seasons, winning it once. He was in the team of the tournament in the 1970 WC and 1972 Euros. He wasn’t just rated as this outrageous goal scorer whose record stands the test of time, he was an elite player and recognised as such at the time.
And it’s not like this era prioritised goals above all else. When he finished as a Ballon d’Or runner up in 1972, having scored 50 goals in 48 games, Beckenbauer was voted ahead of him. Ostensibly a defender and a player admired for his elegance and leadership over any blunt measures of productivity. Muller was considered right alongside him In the early 70s.
Compare that to Zidane who over a 5-year period from 1997 was named one of the top 3 players in 3/5 seasons, winning it once. 3rd in 1997, 1st in 1998, 2nd in 2000. And it’s not like he had stronger competition. Muller was placed alongside Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Best, Rivera, Riva, Mazzola, Netzer and Zoff. Zidane was placed anlongside Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Figo, Shevchenko, Beckham, Šuker, Mijatović.
There’s only no doubt that Zidane is a better player because Muller has been stigmatised and caricatured even by people who think they’re defending his name. The idea that he was just a poacher is really silly.
For someone who claims to have seen him, you sound very much like someone who never saw him. He scored 5 goals at the 86 World Cup. But one was with his hand so he really scored 4 legit ones. He also assisted 5 goals so he actually created as many goals as he scored. Not to mention the innumerable chances he created. He also set the record for the most dribbles at a world cup.
He scored 34 goals for Argentina, in 91 matches. That is a slightly better goal ratio than central defender Daniel Passarella. And yet he is deified in Argentina to a degree that probably no other footballer has ever been.
What makes Maradona special is not the fact that he scored goals (which he obviously did), it is his skill and creativity, which was at a level that has been matched by a tiny number of people in history (if at all). That skill and creativity informed many of the goals that he did score but the essence of him is the small child that was wowing crowds with half time freestyle displays back in Argentina.
If you were to make a list of the greatest goalscorers of all time, Maradona's name would not feature. Erling Haaland's name most likely will by the time he's done
It’s honestly shocking his output. Ridiculous amounts of goals.
You're comparing an award that was for European players only to one where all nationalities were eligible.
Zidane finished behind Mijatovic in 1997 and Figo in 2000 so that seems a bit of a moot point here. And when he didn’t make it into the top three he had Owen, Raul, Kahn, Beckham and Shevchenko ahead of him. Zidane was voted the best European player once, like Gerd Muller, and finished in similar standings behind worse European players over a comparable and significant 5-year peak. What elevates Zidane’s status is the swansong, which left a bit emotional imprint. Without that, the idea that Zidane was obviously better than Muller would never stand up.
It's not really a moot point though is it? Because what you said is that for a 5 year period Muller was named in the top 3 (not sure why only the top 3 matters BTW) players in the world in 4 out of the 5 seasons. Which is objectively false. I'm pretty sure if Pele, Gerson, Rivellino, Tostao, Jairzihno, Cubillas, Figueroa, Zico etc. were eligible for the award, the look of the top 3 in those years would have been very different. Especially in 1970, which is the year Muller won. Then if you look at the more modern award, in 2002, Ronaldo finished first and Roberto Carlos finished second. Zidane was fourth. Remove the two Brazilians and hey presto! It's another top 3 finish for Zidane.
So I don't think that it works to compare finishes in this award over a 40 year period that way. Comparing them as players is difficult because they were very different.
Ronaldinho wasn't a great goalscorer neither was Zidane, are they not amongst the best you have seen (take away longevity)? Is Rossi's 1982 or R9s 2002 better than Maradona’s 1986? Was Muller greater than Cruijff or Backenbauer? Was RVN as good as Henry in their prime?
Goals matter but are not the be all and end all in deciding who is the greater player. The allround play matters alot too. If you ask me right now from PL strikers I'd rather have Henry than Shearer or Haaland because of his much superior approach play meaning he is a more consistent threat, unbalances the opponent and brings other into play although he was not as prolific as Shearee or Haaland.
Exactly. He will be hyped to no end by the British media but when he retires, people will look back at him as a supreme goalpoacher/ pure goalscorer.
Ronaldinho is a good example. He scored 300 goals in his career as well, was he all about goals? Of course not.
Muller was an elite player because he was this outrageous goalscorer
I love Zidane to bits but the reason people would even rate him above Gerd Muller are, ironically, 3 goals.
No. Romanticism aside, what made Maradona special was that he scored a lot of goals while also being one of the game's greatest creators and dribblers and leaders. Goals, and goalscoring, are very much a huge part of his legend. Without goals, you're left with Ozil
Dinho wasn't a great scorer but still put up serious numbers during his peak. Zidane and Beckenbauer are the only names you mentioned for whom you can say goalscoring wasn't an important aspect of their game and incidentally are the two whose success at team level is most tied to their standing. And in Zidane's case, said standing is massively propped up by 3 goals
Beckenbauer was an archetype. A revolutionary player, the parameters are different with him
I agree with this. Where I disagree is with this idea of Maradona as an examplar of a player whose greatness is completely separate from goals and goalscoring, which is blatantly wrong
All this back and forward about him being the best in the world or not says a lot about him since he’s only 22.
I always look at the best player in the world as for their position. He’s a #9 and scores week in week out so he is a shout for it.
Like if you take him vs Mbappe he is nowhere near as good on the ball but Mbappe is a LW and you can’t expect a #9 to be as good as that. But based on the CL and PL this season Haaland is more lethal in front of goal than Mbappe as it is job and if City put Mbappe as #9 he wouldn’t have the same amount of goals. Though he could make city better
I always look at the best player in the world as for their position. He’s a #9 and scores week in week out so he is a shout for it.
Like if you take him vs Mbappe he is nowhere near as good on the ball but Mbappe is a LW and you can’t expect a #9 to be as good as that. But based on the CL and PL this season Haaland is more lethal in front of goal than Mbappe as it is job and if City put Mbappe as #9 he wouldn’t have the same amount of goals. Though he could make city better
The very fact that you would say that "without goals you're left with Ozil" suggests that you haven't got a clue what you are talking about and I go back to my suspicion that you never actually saw him play.
The fact you would take that literally and the fact you want to keep pretending Maradona's greatness was somehow separate from his goals makes you not worth debating with
I like how you compare the 2 this season and somehow forget a little tournament called the World Cup right in the middle. You know, where a certain individual scored a hatrick in a world cup final (not done in over 50 years), and top scored with 8 goals in 7 games, cementing himself as a World Cup legend, all at the age of 24.
Mbappe is clear of Haaland as a football player, goal records or not.
I've heard a lot of people describe Mbappe as the best player in the world recently. Clive Allen and Jonathan Pearce, who commentate on PSG games say it quite often. A lot of people said it during the World Cup coverage. I've never heard anyone say that about Haaland. Which is not to dispute your point, EH is doing his job arguably better than anyone else is doing theirs right now. But there is still some difficulty (it seems) with describing him as the world's best player.
A good thing, because you don't really get it, with all due respect.
It's not a matter of if or when, but of how many? Never seen anything quite like this.
He is going to break the PL record very soon
Has to win win the Balon Dor.
It's unbelievable what he is doing
It's unbelievable what he is doing
Freak. Premier League has never seen this before.
This is what La Liga was like with Ronaldo and Messi - you expect to see their name on the score-sheet on a weekly basis.
This is what La Liga was like with Ronaldo and Messi - you expect to see their name on the score-sheet on a weekly basis.
Guess you missed the Messi and Ronaldo era
How long will City keep him before RM come in for him? 3-5 would be my guess.
Already tired of this cheat code cnut. Shocking that they will probably not win the league.
When was the last time you saw City lose a big player to those 2? Even going back to those teams being the richest.
I wonder if anyone still reckons City are a poorer team with him in there.
They'll win it easy. Game in hand, plus Arsenal at the Etihad. Probably win it by 6+ points in the end.
Yeah, he's good.
I really hope he doesn't tear his ACL or something.
I really hope he doesn't tear his ACL or something.
If there is indeed a release clause and Haaland's plan is to destroy every league, they won't have a choice. It will depend on his reaction when he gets offered Mbappe level of salary and a golden private Etihad jet.
This guy
He'll surely get a hat trick today, equalling Shearers record of 5 in a season
He is going to be the greatest goalscorer ever, unless injuries become a recurring thing for him
Unbelievable striker
Unbelievable striker
So he's now matched Salah's record, needs 2 more to match Shearer/Cole in 42 game season, still 8 games and a half to play...
At this point we might as well talk about non-penalty records
At this point we might as well talk about non-penalty records
Hasn't scored in the last 21 minutes. Flop.