Look at the example I gave and debate that. Strawmen involving players at vastly different levels isn't the way.
Nordic Ghost Yeti (Scandi Carroll) | Haaland at City
- Thread starter Samid
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It's not old school, that's how football works. The game is essentially the same as it has always been
What makes it old school thinking?
There is a reason why Maradona is considered as one of the greatest football player, even though he didn't score many goals in today's standard. Same can be said for Zindane too.
A player with 0 goals can be better than one with 20 goals and 20 assists..
i can't remember when the last time City lose 4-0.
Scoring 20 goals is impressive, but a great goalscorer isn't a better player than a great midfielder, a great fullback, or a great winger.
The typical debate between Ruud and Thierry was only for a few people, most would choose Henry as the better player, especially outside of UK.
Not sure how it was even a debate
Henry typically outscored Ruud while also assisting a shit tonne and just being an all round amazing playerThis seems to have become some kind of truism, but...nah.
Meaningless statement really, considering the nature of football. Chicken and egg thing, if you will.
He was consistently the best scorer on his teams though. Not sure why Maradona should be used as an example of somebody who wasn't about goals...
Because they're the two leading contenders for this seasons ballon d'or
This is true in fact
I wanted Ruud to be better but Henry was clearly better.
This is just pure nonsense, as any person having seen the tournament knows. He missed 2 games after his red card, after being really average in the group stage!
His Euro 2000 was excellent though.
Zidane is an enigma. Very inconsistent but when at his best (generally in big games), he was balletic, had a great touch and skill, and produced decisive moments. His inconsistency gets overlooked. Imo Iniesta had a similar level but more consistent. The only reason why Zidane gets more recognition is because Iniesta had Messi as a teammate. But that is a debate for another thread.
Yeah I think Michael Cox looked at the winners of the PL one by one and found that a goalscoring striker was actually the least important role to win the league, as several teams had won the league without a high-scoring striker. Whereas you can't get away without a good keeper. The most important roles are top-class centre-back, top-class centre midfielder and top-class goalkeeper, very few teams have won the league being weak in those areas.
I agree. I often find him to be overrated in all time greats debates, as good as he could be in big moments. He was extremely inconsistent. And he definitely wasn't one of the best players of the tournament in 98.
Yeah, nostalgia. In 30 years, if you ask someone who was around for neither Maradona nor Messi, they will have absolutely no desire to pretend that the former was better than the latter.
Football would be a much more interesting world if you removed the World Cup. Too many people seem to view it as a vital part of a player's legacy.
Iniesta was more consistent than Zidane but not at the same level. Both were amazing technicians but Zidane was on a different level physically. Like an Iniesta on PEDs.
This is also not as easy a comparison as it seems because they played in different systems and positions. Iniesta spent most of his career on the left side in tiki-taka systems in club and NT while Zidane played in various systems and was more all over the pitch.
Best player should always be no.10 type of player, or something, regardless of how well the player excelled in their respective positive/role.
Sure, if he excels in something else.
But right now, IMHO no one excels as much as Haaland does in their respective roles.
No but that’s not my point. IMO I don’t see any midfielders or defenders or no.10 or wing forwards excel as much as Haaland does in their respective role right now.
Yeah that Henry vs RVN debate was ridiculous even back then. VAN Nistelrooy scored more but had nowhere near the overall goal production (goals + assists) than Henry. And definitely didn't have the same impact on his team's play that Henry did.
Yeah that world cup sealed his GOAT status and likely a record-extending 8th ballon d'or. Leave goals aside, and the fact that he was the top assister (with 2 of the best world cup assists ever in the process). His influence and overall play were the reason he was the only player to ever win man of the match in every single KO stage.
Laughable. Football would be much more interesting without the most interesting tournament that captivates the world? Instead we could watch more of nation states and venture capitalist billionaires play out their dreams all the time in club football. Who needs history or heritage?
How can any true football fan think this way? I honestly don't get it.
Yeah as good as Ruud was, he’s not the same level as Haaland. Haaland is like Ruud with better physical attributes. Ruud with Henry’s pace perhaps. A Mbappé vs Haaland comparison is closer than Henry vs Van Nistelrooy.
I agree, and I hate that it feels as though we are dismissing how great of a player Nistelrooy was, but he was a slightly lesser Haaland. In either case, it is similar to that discussion except that we have a Ruud on steroids and an Henry that's even more agile.
People give it far too much weight. There are people who genuinely believe Maradona was better than Messi! Almost entirely because of his world cup performances - a few games every four years.
We've got this idea into our heads that the great players are the ones who perform well in the World Cup and nobody else matters. In fact it's probably why Haaland won't be remembered as one of the all time greats.
This is what annoys me and what people dont understand. He creates so much space for the team, he has often two players watching him during games. If thats doing 'nothing' you should never get into coaching
It's that and what he did at Napoli - it's not just the world cup. The world cup is the pinnacle of football and is the huge cherry on top of a player's career if they win it.
I remember back then there were comparison of Romario and Bebeto during their 94 WC winning team. Bebeto being the player who work so hard for the team, running and chasing the ball everywhere and involved a lot in the team’s build up play.
Whereas Romario, is generally just very quiet on the pitch, didn’t involved much of the action. But when he has the chances (or half chances), he would become the biggest threat on the pitch with his goalscoring touch.
Romario is generally regarded as the better player of course, winning all the best player awards at that time. So things not always so black and white for the so called poacher being the best player.
This ain't it bruh....
Romario was nothing like Haaland. He was a player of tremendous skill and about a tenth of the size of Erling as well.
For longevity and consistency, Messi is way better than Maradona for sure. In terms of talent and football ability, leadership, and as a football player, I am not sure if Messi is better. Maradona played in the era the defense and tackles were completely different than today's standard.
Iniesta is a much better shout, but he was at best second or third best player at his club, so there’s that. The best scored a ton of goals. Go figure…
The World Cup is the pinnacle of football.
Removing it ruins the passion, as you only have players literally playing only for money in clubs.
Winning a trophy with your people will always be more satisfying, than winning something with some other foreigner players who are just there because they got paid shiton of money to be there.
The celebrations from WC winners are another level, true real happiness, you don't get that level of happiness from CL winners, except very few cases.
I don't think the WC shows the better football, but i respect what it means for people and players.
Just look at the relief and happiness from Messi's face and it is for everyone to see what World cup is meant for him. It is everything. He said already he would trade all his Ballon d'Or for a world cup trophy.
And Messi plays in a time where players don't go out drinking, smoking and snorting cocaine every weekend, so there's that
To be fair, Maradona was pretty elite in the snorting departement as well