There appears to be no standout Ballon d'Or favourites this season. Haaland could absolutely win it if City end the season as English and European champions.
Nordic Ghost Yeti (Scandi Carroll) | Haaland at City
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Grealish has settled into a position now…which will only help Haaland score even more.
If City even choose to develop a counter attacking style for some away games then we might have to get used to City lifting big ears for the next few years.
If City even choose to develop a counter attacking style for some away games then we might have to get used to City lifting big ears for the next few years.
adexkola
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Grealish has settled into a position now…which will only help Haaland score even more.
If City even choose to develop a counter attacking style for some away games then we might have to get used to City lifting big ears for the next few years.
More cliches, Jesus will this never end
If you say so
How many french teams are left in the CL/Europa? How many were in the previous round? It's a pretty shit league that PSG dominates due to their financial advantage. Let's not try and pretend otherwise, surely we can call a spade a spade.
Nah, if it was De Bruyne it would’ve been forgotten tomorrow. It’s very impressive considering the circumstances though — everyone and their dog thought that a striker as goal-hungry as Haaland would try to shoot, especially since it was under his left foot, but he played everyone and made a great assist. The pass itself wasn’t anything special — in fact, you’d be more disappointed if De Bruyne failed to make it than amazed that he did.Vastly underestimated assist. If that was de bruyne everyone would be creaming over it .
He has a few strings to the bow
Andrade
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The Ballon D'Or doesn't necessarily determine who the best player in the world is but rather who is deemed to have had the best season. Sometimes that is the BPITW, sometimes (like with Modric) it is not. I think you make fair point about how players are judged but those are just the unwritten rules for some reason. Re Beckenbauer and Yashin, I would say FB does belong on that list but only because he was much more than a defender. Defenders and goalkeepers always seem to be separated and assessed differently from attacking players. Probably because it takes more ability to create (no disrespect to great defenders and keepers who obviously have ability, I'm just speaking generally).Well, that's one way of doing it at least. But then you have Ballon d'or winners who doesn't conform to that. Like Modric, or van Dijk. Also, the qualities associated with being the greatest of all time isn't necessarily the same thing as the ones needed to be the best one right now. Among other things, because there isn't always any player of that type who is at that level. And thirdly, you could probably have a pretty big argument about how that canonical, greatness-defining list should look anyway. Should Beckenbauer maybe be on it, for example? Or Lev Yashin? You could argue no, because they don't conform to the qualities the others have, but then you're left with a circular definition of greatness - they're the greatest because they're the right kind of player, and that's the right kind of player because they're the greatest.
Andrade
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It's a top 5 leagueHow many french teams are left in the CL/Europa? How many were in the previous round? It's a pretty shit league that PSG dominates due to their financial advantage. Let's not try and pretend otherwise, surely we can call a spade a spade.
Andrade
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Messi has the most goal contributions in Europe this seasonNeither are having an overly good season and PSG got knocked out of the CL early again. On merit neither should be in the equation. If we're going by reputation then sure.
It's a top 5 league
Disagree, it used to be. You didn't answer my question. How many French teams are still in the CL, Europa this season and how many qualified last round? On top of that, tell me how well teams have done outside of PSG in Europe lately?
balaks
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Messi won the world cup... I'd say that qualifies as having a good season.Neither are having an overly good season and PSG got knocked out of the CL early again. On merit neither should be in the equation. If we're going by reputation then sure.
Messi won the world cup... I'd say that qualifies as having a good season.
Blanked out the World Cup as I didnt watch much of it, that's fair. He should be a contender for that accomplishment.
Andrade
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That is not a very scientific way of determining league strength, using 2 seasons in knockout football. The coefficient has it as a top 5 league, you can put it wherever you want to in your own personal rankings.Disagree, it used to be. You didn't answer my question. How many French teams are still in the CL, Europa this season and how many qualified last round? On top of that, tell me how well teams have done outside of PSG in Europe lately?
RedRonaldo
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Yes but I think they are scoring in similar rate, that shows how insane Haaland was this season. Maybe let’s wait until season ends to see a clearer picture.He scored 73 goals that season which was completely insane. To put that in perspective: Haaland would have to score 28 goals in a maximum of 15 games remaining to match that. It's hard to overstate how much of freak season that was from Messi.
Messi 11-12
73 goals in 60 games (5221 mins)
- avg 1.21 goals per game
- avg 1.25 goals per 90 mins
Haaland 22-23
45 goals in 39 games (3030 mins)
- avg 1.15 goals per game
- avg 1.33 goals per 90 mins
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justsomebloke
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The Ballon D'Or doesn't necessarily determine who the best player in the world is but rather who is deemed to have had the best season. Sometimes that is the BPITW, sometimes (like with Modric) it is not. I think you make fair point about how players are judged but those are just the unwritten rules for some reason. Re Beckenbauer and Yashin, I would say FB does belong on that list but only because he was much more than a defender. Defenders and goalkeepers always seem to be separated and assessed differently from attacking players. Probably because it takes more ability to create (no disrespect to great defenders and keepers who obviously have ability, I'm just speaking generally).
Yeah, and I'm of course not expecting you to have all the answers here, nobody does. Effectively I think we all basically make instinctive judgments here, which we then have to try to rationalise afterwards when challenged. That's kind of a heuristic I guess - usually it's sufficient to make a sound judgment. But it's useful to think through when we're faced with something that's so out of ordinary that the heuristic doesn't necessarily serve.
laughtersassassin
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Yes but I think they are scoring in similar rate (Messi slightly better perhaps), that shows how insane Haaland was this season. Maybe let’s wait until season ends to see a clearer picture.
Messi 11-12
73 goals in 60 games (avg 1.21 goals per game)
Haaland 22-23
45 goals in 39 games (avg 1.15 goals per game)
Haalands scoring rate is actually better when you look into the minutes played.
Ekkie Thump
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It's a top 5 league
Is it really though? Like by far the biggest reason why France is (an incredibly distant) 5th in the coefficient rankings in PSG itself. If you look at the individual club rankings it only has 2 clubs in the top 30! Every league higher on it on the list has at least 5. It's far closer in ranking to Netherlands and Portugal than it is Italy, and Netherlands and Portugal achieve their ranking by sharing their points more evenly among their clubs.
That is not a very scientific way of determining league strength, using 2 seasons in knockout football. The coefficient has it as a top 5 league, you can put it wherever you want to in your own personal rankings.
The scientific way is a load of dogshit. One team a league does not make is famous quote Yoda once said.
RedRonaldo
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You are right, I corrected my post.Haalands scoring rate is actually better when you look into the minutes played.
laughtersassassin
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You are right, I corrected my post.
I think those stats there really makes it a closed case that Haaland should win this seasons Balon Dor. His stats compete with peak Messi it's madness really.
Why do people mention Mbappe as th bpitw when is having a terrible season at PSG?In my opinion it's probably Mbappe though you could still make an argument for Messi
laughtersassassin
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Why do people mention Mbappe as th bpitw when is having a terrible season at PSG?
Because No one watches PSG apart from in the CL.
And people overvalue the world Cup perferomances in terms of how much say they should have on the Balon Dor
kouroux
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What about creating for others during the same period of games ?You are right, I corrected my post.
Not really. The world cup has more weight than anything else although its still possible that Haaland wins it. But it will be tight between Messi and Haaland if City win the UCL.I think those stats there really makes it a closed case that Haaland should win this seasons Balon Dor. His stats compete with peak Messi it's madness really.
balaks
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Because he had an amazing world cup - with one of the best ever individual performances in a world cup final ever seen.Why do people mention Mbappe as th bpitw when is having a terrible season at PSG?
Not really because the WC is far more prestigious than any other competition, and if you have the kind of wc Messi did, then it isn't a farce for him to win it. Haaland obviously will be in with a chance if City win the ucl but it will be tight in this case.I don't think those achievements are relevant but I think if City win the CL & PL then anyone other than Haaland winning it would be a farce. A lot left to play for like you said so ending up this season with nothing or only the FA Cup and I think Messi takes it.
RedRonaldo
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Apparently Messi still have the creative edge during his prime. But let’s not forget Messi didn’t win anything major that season when he was crowned Ballon D’or winner.What about creating for others during the same period of games ?
Now if Haaland managed to win the treble, he surely would have the case of winning it by matching productivity of Messi best ever season plus winning a treble, even though Messi might still win it in the end because of better narrative of finally winning the WC and claiming GOAT title (even though he mostly won it from penalties)
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Is it 5th or not?Is it really though? Like by far the biggest reason why France is (an incredibly distant) 5th in the coefficient rankings in PSG itself. If you look at the individual club rankings it only has 2 clubs in the top 30! Every league higher on it on the list has at least 5. It's far closer in ranking to Netherlands and Portugal than it is Italy, and Netherlands and Portugal achieve their ranking by sharing their points more evenly among their clubs.
Andrade
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He was man of the match 5 times (a record) and had the most assists in the tournament.Apparently Messi still have the creative edge during his prime. But let’s not forget Messi didn’t win anything major that season when he was crowned Ballon D’or winner.
Now if Haaland managed to win the treble, he surely would have the case of winning it by matching productivity of Messi best ever season plus winning a treble, even though Messi might still win it in the end because of better narrative of finally winning the WC and claiming GOAT title (even though he mostly won it from penalties)
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I agree with this but also, even then it's not a given he is the best player in his position currently in the world. He is the best goal scorer on the planet, I think we can all agree on that - if that is all you value from a striker then yes you could argue he is the best however, in the modern game there are other aspects of forward play that are also very valuable and in some of these aspects he is not the best - things like the ability to hold up the ball and create chances for others - there are other strikers better at this than him who also can put up very good goal scoring numbers (though not as good as his) so it again just comes down to what you value most in a certain position - no player is perfect of course and all have their strengths and weaknesses. His goal scoring ability is second to none for sure though.
its why I never get involved in those best player debates. Impossible to get to a decision.
I wish the prick was at United. That I am clear on.
Andrade
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Or just general performances? Messi at that time was like a combination of Haaland (in terms of the numbers) and one of the creative City players, like KBD, Foden or Silva.What about creating for others during the same period of games ?
Ekkie Thump
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Is it 5th or not?
Not sure how you've quoted me as RedRonaldo, but in my opinion no because its coefficient relies on one team's outsized contribution. It reflects the mightiness of PSG, and not the quality of PSG's competitors. Therefore it's unreliable as a barometer of league quality.
He was nowhere in the QF,SF and was anonymous in the final until 80 mins. You can argue for his goals but even after his goal, he did not really create much in ET. If the wc is considered to determine the bpitw than Messi actually had a much better tournament, as did Griezmann except the final.Because he had an amazing world cup - with one of the best ever individual performances in a world cup final ever seen.
Haaland is one of the bpitw primarily because of his goals. He wasn’t even City's best player yesterday.People really need to think about the "hes not the best footballer" argument.
Whats the point of that? So we say Mbappe is better because he has better step overs? Do step over goals give more points?
Right now nobody can do the same destruction he is doing. It doesnt matter how he do it or not.
In the end it is the goals that count, and he seems unstoppeball now.
De brunye got injured yesterday. Apparantly Haaland cant score without him. Well he both assisted and scored. It didnt stop City one bit.
If Haaland got injured, they probably wouldent have won 3-0.
And yeah, it really is harder in the Premier League. Imagine if Haaland played for PSG in ligue 1, Or Bayern in Germany, or Madrid or Barcelona. He would most likely have more goals.
City would have won even if he wasn't playing; someone else would have scored as has been seen quite a few times in the Premier League this season.
Andrade
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So which league is 5th according to you?Not sure how you've quoted me as RedRonaldo, but in my opinion no because its coefficient relies on one team's outsized contribution. It reflects the mightiness of PSG, and not the quality of PSG's competitors. Therefore it's unreliable as a barometer of league quality.
Apparently Messi still have the creative edge during his prime. But let’s not forget Messi didn’t win anything major that season when he was crowned Ballon D’or winner.
Now if Haaland managed to win the treble, he surely would have the case of winning it by matching productivity of Messi best ever season plus winning a treble, even though Messi might still win it in the end because of better narrative of finally winning the WC and claiming GOAT title (even though he mostly won it from penalties)
Messi individually was very good in every match Argentina played regardless of penalties or not. He carried a very average team to the trophy.
RedRonaldo
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I think somehow you have quoted me wrongly by mistake. I wasn’t the person who have said this, but somehow ending up as in your quote.Is it 5th or not?
balaks
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Messi had a better tournament but Mbappe had the best individual performance in the biggest match. That does count for something and why he will be there and here abouts in all discussions about who the best player is.He was nowhere in the QF,SF and was anonymous in the final until 80 mins. You can argue for his goals but even after his goal, he did not really create much in ET. If the wc is considered to determine the bpitw than Messi actually had a much better tournament, as did Griezmann except the final.
Haaland is one of the bpitw primarily because of his goals. He wasn’t even City's best player yesterday.
City would have won even if he wasn't playing; someone else would have scored as has been seen quite a few times in the Premier League this season.
Andrade
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My mistake, not sure how it happenedI think somehow you have quoted me wrongly by mistake. I wasn’t the person who have said this, but somehow ending up as in your quote.
So which league is 5th according to you?
It's Portugal, in the last 3 seasons they've outperformed France.
Season | Competition | Country | Club | Competition Finish |
|---|---|---|---|---|
20-21 | Champions League | Portugal | Porto | Quarter Finals |
21-22 | Champions League | Portugal | Benfica | Quarter Finals |
21-22 | Europa League | Portugal | Braga | Quarter Finals |
21-22 | Europa League | Portugal | Porto | Last 16 |
21-22 | Champions League | Portugal | Sporting | Last 16 |
22-23 | Champions League | Portugal | Benfica | Quarter Finals |
22-23 | Champions League | Portugal | Porto | Last 16 |
22-23 | Europa League | Portugal | Sporting | Quarter Finals |
Season | Competition | Country | Club | Competition Finish |
|---|---|---|---|---|
20-21 | Champions League | France | PSG | Quarter Finals |
21-22 | Champions League | France | Lille | Last 16 |
21-22 | Europa League | France | Lyon | Quarter Finals |
21-22 | Europa League | France | Monaco | Last 16 |
21-22 | Champions League | France | PSG | Last 16 |
22-23 | Champions League | France | PSG | Last 16 |
RedRonaldo
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I think he did have a good tournament. But majority of his goals are penalties, and Argentina won it from penalties shootout in the final and quarter final too, so it’s fair to say luck does play a big part for him winning the WC.Messi individually was very good in every match Argentina played regardless of penalties or not. He carried a very average team to the trophy.
Ekkie Thump
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So which league is 5th according to you?
I'd honestly say it's a toss up between the Dutch, French and Portuguese leagues. I think I might give the edge to the Dutch league right now, but only just. I think my overriding point, though, is that Ligue 1 has more in common with the Eredivisie and Liga Portugal than with Serie A and the Bundesliga (which are the next highest on the list).
Edit: Just to be clear I mean in terms of teams capable of competing in European competition. I do think in terms of dominance PSG and Ligue 1 has more in common with Bayern and the Bundesliga than any other team/league combo.
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