Nordic Ghost Yeti (Scandi Carroll) | Haaland at City

Halftrack said:
Weird how invested some are in convincing others that Haaland can not be counted among the greats because he doesn't do stepovers or whatever.
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He's a pretty boring player to watch, but he's clearly going to go to be one of the greats. He's going to smash scoring records all over the place.
 
Halftrack said:
Weird how invested some are in convincing others that Haaland can not be counted among the greats because he doesn't do stepovers or whatever.
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Stepovers is like the least skilfull gimmick ever.
 
Andrade said:
Provide the figures and the sources
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Any time I make a response to something I either disagree with or want to underline something, I spend a couple minutes factchecking myself and verifying what I want to convey with other sources. Its a lot more fun than asking someone to do the simplest thing for you
 
Andrade said:
Yes I noticed that. Haaland's first 180 appearances: 153 goals

Ronaldo's first 153 appearances: 145 goals.

People can try as much as they like to say that we've never seen what Haaland is doing before but the reality is that we have. Obviously Ronaldo is streets better as a player but we're not talking about that, simply numbers.
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Sadly we don't have minutes/played data for Ronaldo in Brazil aside of his games in Libertadores and Recopa Sudamericana.
But what one thing is sure : Haaland scores at a higher rate than R9 ever did in Europe.
 
Tom Cato said:
Any time I make a response to something I either disagree with or want to underline something, I spend a couple minutes factchecking myself and verifying what I want to convey with other sources. Its a lot more fun than asking someone to do the simplest thing for you
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Congratulations.
 
Andrade said:
Already addressed this
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Yes. By cherry-picking the selection, after arguing that Haaland's numbers were looking better because people were cherry-picking. Which I specifically challenged you to do, so I can't complain - but it is what it is.
 
BalanceUnAutreJoint said:
Sadly we don't have minutes/played data for Ronaldo in Brazil aside of his games in Libertadores and Recopa Sudamericana.
But what one thing is sure : Haaland scores at a higher rate than R9 ever did in Europe.
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Ronaldo scored around a goal a game for his entire career until Inter Milan (so also for two European clubs prior to Milan), which was a team in a very defensive league the likes of which Haaland has never played in. Haaland has averaged about a goal a game in his career apart from in Norway. I don't see how Haaland is doing something that hasn't been seen before (which is the whole premise of this discussion) but hey ho.
 
Andrade said:
That is a fact. Brazilian teams were extremely competitive in the Intercontinental/Club World Cup in the 90s and early 2000s. Romario's Vasco destroyed treble winning United for example. The football there was definitely better than Austria or Norway is now. Obviously contemporary Brazilian football is much weaker than it was then so people make the mistake of thinking it's always been like that.
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No I’m not disputing any of that, the discussion was scoring rate, pure numbers, and you went and started talking about levels and difficulty. If you want to play that game, then Haaland has played top football since he arrived at Salzburg, and he has destroyed all scoring records possible since. Even if you don’t appreciate his game, it’s not disputable, but go on, you’re on a roll.
 
justsomebloke said:
Yes. By cherry-picking the selection, after arguing that Haaland's numbers were looking better because people were cherry-picking. Which I specifically challenged you to do, so I can't complain - but it is what it is.
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Yeah I already said that I got that wrong. I was unaware that Haaland only scored 20 in 50 in Norway. But then if the guy who gave those figures is gonna leave Norway out then why leave out Ronaldo's figures in Brazil? Include those and it's 145 goals in 153 games for Ronaldo to start his career, which is definitely comparable to Haaland. Which was my initial point.
 
Andrade said:
Ronaldo scored around a goal a game for his entire career until Inter Milan (so also for two European clubs prior to Milan), which was a team in a very defensive league the likes of which Haaland has never played in. Haaland has averaged about a goal a game in his career apart from in Norway. I don't see how Haaland is doing something that hasn't been seen before (which is the whole premise of this discussion) but hey ho.
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Because you're strictly looking at goal per game when I'm talking about non-penalty goal per 90 minutes specifically.
 
Misses the internationals due to ‘injury’. How do you stay fit all season but miss two international breaks in a row? Giggs in disguise. Wanker.
 
Andrade said:
A penalty is a goal. Why would you exclude them? Makes no sense.
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I think leaving out Penalties gives you a more accurate picture. Is somebody a better Striker just because he takes the Penalties for the team? Not for me.
 
Samid said:
Misses the internationals due to ‘injury’. How do you stay fit all season but miss two international breaks in a row? Giggs in disguise. Wanker.
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Wanker for the NT but I wouldn’t mind if some of our players were “injured” for this NT break…
 
Samid said:
Misses the internationals due to ‘injury’. How do you stay fit all season but miss two international breaks in a row? Giggs in disguise. Wanker.
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You can bet your house that the club is behind that. And it's understandable really. I think back to the 20/21 season where Lewandowski picking up an injury in the international break cost us the tie against PSG.
 
The March intl break is pretty fecking stupid anyway. Makes more sense to carry on with the league season and have a couple of internationals after the CL final etc.
 
fck said:
I think leaving out Penalties gives you a more accurate picture. Is somebody a better Striker just because he takes the Penalties for the team? Not for me.
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They both take (or took) pens and a penalty is a goal so you have to include them. Even in situations where one takes pens and the other doesn't, people mostly don't factor that in . Look at Cole and Shearer for example. When was the last time someone compared them using 'open play goals' to favour Andy, who's been horribly underrated for a long time? Shearer would still be ahead I think but by a much smaller margin.
 
Samid said:
Misses the internationals due to ‘injury’. How do you stay fit all season but miss two international breaks in a row? Giggs in disguise. Wanker.
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To be fair his club is his employer. International football is a stupid birth lottery and should be entirely optional, especially when you play for Norway.

If I was Haaland I'd just strike a deal with the highest paying betting company and go to Marbella for rest during the international breaks.
 
Ffs… any enthusiasm I had for the international break just evaporated.

I’m never gonna see Norway in a championship again, am I?
 
Eriku said:
Ffs… any enthusiasm I had for the international break just evaporated.

I’m never gonna see Norway in a championship again, am I?
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Not looking that way I'm afraid, mate. Hopefully Odegaard can do a job and carry the team to something.
 
Eriku said:
Ffs… any enthusiasm I had for the international break just evaporated.

I’m never gonna see Norway in a championship again, am I?
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We will always have Brazil in 1998 to remember.

I have a feeling this injury is more of a "lets not risk aggravating something" rather than an actual tear, or he wouldnt have been there in the first place. It sucks so much though, I just cant see who is going to put the ball in the net now. Our squad depth is razor thin.
 
Tom Cato said:
We will always have Brazil in 1998 to remember.

I have a feeling this injury is more of a "lets not risk aggravating something" rather than an actual tear, or he wouldnt have been there in the first place. It sucks so much though, I just cant see who is going to put the ball in the net now. Our squad depth is razor thin.
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I don’t know what to think. Solbakken and the papers spent a fair few column inches impressing upon us how devastated

JimmyWils said:
Not looking that way I'm afraid, mate. Hopefully Odegaard can do a job and carry the team to something.
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Why would he start now? He rarely puts in top displays for Norway, and useful though it is to have someone as good as him at keeping possession circulating, it doesn’t help when he’s teamed up with dross.
 
Andrade said:
They both take (or took) pens and a penalty is a goal so you have to include them. Even in situations where one takes pens and the other doesn't, people mostly don't factor that in . Look at Cole and Shearer for example. When was the last time someone compared them using 'open play goals' to favour Andy, who's been horribly underrated for a long time? Shearer would still be ahead I think but by a much smaller margin.
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Haven’t you just answered your own question? If Andy Cole is ‘horribly underrated’ because he is compared to players who took penalties then surely any reasonable analysis of goal scoring should take that into account to get a more accurate picture.
 
NicolaSacco said:
Haven’t you just answered your own question? If Andy Cole is ‘horribly underrated’ because he is compared to players who took penalties then surely any reasonable analysis of goal scoring should take that into account to get a more accurate picture.
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That is not the reason he's underrated
 
Andrade said:
That is not the reason he's underrated
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There are a few reasons he’s underrated, but to say it’s unrelated to the 56 penalties that Shearer scored (compared to Cole’s 1) is just plain wrong.
 
Andrade said:
A) Extreme cherry picking here. Why have you excluded Ronaldo's figures in Brazil? That was a higher standard than contemporary Austria I'd argue. Also, Ronaldo's overall figure is expanded by Italy, which was far more defensive at the time than anything Haaland has faced.

B) As stated above, there are contextual reasons for the differences in mins per goal. Overall it seems pretty similar for all three.
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I belive its more you cherrypicking then troylock, sorry to all for feeding the troll.

I took all Ronaldos club games from start intill sep of 00 season (he turned 23 that september, same age as Haaland will be in 4 months, also around same time he got injured and next 3 seasons he only got 40 goals. source

Ronaldo also had impressive 36 national team goals same age in 49 games, here I did not bother adding the minut/goal
Source
I note that 19 of his goals is in friendlies when Brazil were world champions

Ronaldo club stats up till 23:
Games: 191
Goals: 152
Minutes: 16074
M/G - 105.75

Haaland club stats up intill now, including when he played winger as 15y/o in Norway

Games: 220
Goals: 177
Minutes: 14832
M/G - 83,79

If Haaland play all 90 minuts of the rest of the season intill he is 23 (same age as Ronaldo stats) without scoring a goal his goal rate will go down to 91.3 M/G
Still better then Ronaldo same age.

You have a point if you argue age 17-20 Ronaldo scored more, but after 20 Haaland have overtaken him both in goals scored and minuts per goal. Of course from then Ronaldo had his injuries so if Haaland keep fit he we go even futher ahead from now.

They are actually really close in goals same age, if you include National team Ronaldo got 188 while Haaland is at 198, but Haaland got 4 more months to add to that number.
 
troylocker said:
If you want to count apps from the bench from Norwegian 2nd tier as a 15/16 year old then, yes, R9 was more efficient in Brazil from 15-18 than Haaland was in Norway. From age 19-22 we have never seen better numbers in Europe, that isn’t up for debate. The goalrate we have seen from Haaland since the start of the 19/20 season is unmatched in modern football.
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Maybe in combination but by age category, Mbappe actually has him beaten every year between 18 to 21 and Messi takes over from there.

https://www.givemesport.com/1525203...ghest-goalscorers-by-every-age-from-18-to-34/

troylocker said:
If you want to count apps from the bench from Norwegian 2nd tier as a 15/16 year old then, yes, R9 was more efficient in Brazil from 15-18 than Haaland was in Norway. From age 19-22 we have never seen better numbers in Europe, that isn’t up for debate. The goalrate we have seen from Haaland since the start of the 19/20 season is unmatched in modern football.
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Is Messi not part of modern football?

22 Year old Messi 47 in 53 games
23 Year old Messi 53 in 55 games

at 24 and 25 he has 2 seasons I doubt will be bested in our lifetime. 73 in 60 and 60 in 50.
 
RedStarUnited said:
Maybe in combination but by age category, Mbappe actually has him beaten every year between 18 to 21 and Messi takes over from there.

https://www.givemesport.com/1525203...ghest-goalscorers-by-every-age-from-18-to-34/



Is Messi not part of modern football?

22 Year old Messi 47 in 53 games
23 Year old Messi 53 in 55 games

at 24 and 25 he has 2 seasons I doubt will be bested in our lifetime. 73 in 60 and 60 in 50.
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The argument wasn't exclusively in the CL, was it?

Messi at Haaland's age was having his first season with that kind of scoring rate, same with CR7, where as Haalands been doing it since he was 19. That's the argument being made here.
 
Halftrack said:
The argument wasn't exclusively in the CL, was it?

Messi at Haaland's age was having his first season with that kind of scoring rate, same with CR7, where as Haalands been doing it since he was 19. That's the argument being made here.
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Both Messi and Cr7 started out as wingers. And even then Messi was never a true striker when he hit his goalscoring prime. Also 2008/2009 was Messi’s first season fully fit. Haaland if he keps going at this rate might break their records anyway
 
Since he left Norway in 2018, this alien has scored 157 goals in 153 games across 3 different clubs in 3 different leagues with the difficulty increasing with each move.
 
For Messi vs Ronaldo the argument used to be that football is more than just goals.

Here we are having young Ronaldo vs Haaland and again, football is more than just goals.
 
Scottynaldinho said:
For Messi vs Ronaldo the argument used to be that football is more than just goals.

Here we are having young Ronaldo vs Haaland and again, football is more than just goals.
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It certainly is for anyone who likes to watch football.
 
Scottynaldinho said:
For Messi vs Ronaldo the argument used to be that football is more than just goals.

Here we are having young Ronaldo vs Haaland and again, football is more than just goals.
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The difference here is that Haaland might go down as the best goalscorer ever, while Mbappe has little shot of even going down as a all time top 5 creator type.
 
Korwas said:
The difference here is that Haaland might go down as the best goalscorer ever, while Mbappe has little shot of even going down as a all time top 5 creator type.
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Mpabbe has scored a abusurd amount for his age. He already has more than 250 goals at his age. But true Mpabbe wont go down as a grand maestro.
 
City have potentially 18 games to play between April and May (if they reach both finals), and they could actually win stuff, no wonder he's "injured" for this international break, glad rashford is the same, we've got an equally bad schedule, maybe worse as we're more likely to progress in europa league than City are in the champions league
 
The Corinthian said:
The March intl break is pretty fecking stupid anyway. Makes more sense to carry on with the league season and have a couple of internationals after the CL final etc.
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It's ridiculous to have it in a season that also had a winter world cup, and obviously the queen dying wasn't fifa's fault, but the run from January to May has been ridiculous for any Premier league side that's progressed in cups
 
FrankFoot said:
Mbappe is not a maestro but he is much better player than Haaland for sure.
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Oh I agree that Mbappe is better, I just think Haaland might end up being THE definition of a goalscorer even above Gerd Müller. I can't see Mbappe making the same big impact historically (hope I'm making sense here) which should make this debate more interesting than Ronaldo/Messi was.
 
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