New Year, New Pod, Same Crap Team - United Hour Podcast

[Rood]

Happy New Year listeners!
Nik and Imran are here for a less then joyous pod where they discuss a horrific month of December and a depressing FOUR defeats in a row - the latest coming against Wolves and Newcastle.

They discuss how much blame is on Ruben Amorim and rank our squad against other Premier League teams.

Do we have any chance of avoiding defeat at Anfield?



Check out our Linktree for other listening links, socials, podcast history etc https://linktr.ee/unitedhour

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Before anyone jumps on me - my point is that our squad/players - if better, are not significantly better then those around us. Trevor Chalobah was probably a bad example - should have gone with Guehi straight away!

 

[Rood]

Before anyone jumps on me - my point is that our squad/players - if better, are not significantly better then those around us. Trevor Chalobah was probably a bad example - should have gone with Guehi straight away!

Ye you should!

But even then it's just one player - most PL teams will have a few players who can improve us, obviously we have some dross in the squad but I'm not accepting that our squad is at a Palace/West Ham level

 

[Ace of Spades]

I disagree with the statement that Amorim has had plenty of time with the players, the biggest problem has been a lack of time to train. Apart from the 1st training session, it has been consecutive games with no time to train. Even then, statistically there has been a difference already. I am confident that with time we will be better and the results will come, but it won't be smooth till we get there.

 

[Utd heap]

Fantastic tension between you both in the first five/ten mins, made me laugh.

Listened to this on and off over the years and often agree with you Imran but were you having a bad day coming into this one

Disagreed with every point you made until calling INEOS nobs (unites us all). Comments on Zirkzee were very petty. If you don’t rate him, can’t blame you - but the he’s not even a footballer / worst I’ve ever seen stuff is just bollocks. Expect more nuance on a Pod with knowledgeable lads!

 

[roseguy64]

Ye you should!

But even then it's just one player - most PL teams will have a few players who can improve us, obviously we have some dross in the squad but I'm not accepting that our squad is at a Palace/West Ham level

Agreed with this. We have a European places squad. The players are just massively underperforming for numerous reasons.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Fantastic tension between you both in the first five/ten mins, made me laugh.

Listened to this on and off over the years and often agree with you Imran but were you having a bad day coming into this one

Disagreed with every point you made until calling INEOS nobs (unites us all). Comments on Zirkzee were very petty. If you don’t rate him, can’t blame you - but the he’s not even a footballer / worst I’ve ever seen stuff is just bollocks. Expect more nuance on a Pod with knowledgeable lads!

I genuinely can't think of a worse first team footballer I've seen in my near 30 years of regularly going to Old Trafford. Antony and Falcao are the only two that immediately come to mind. Happy to hear some other candidates?

 

[2 man midfield]

I genuinely can't think of a worse first team footballer I've seen in my near 30 years of regularly going to Old Trafford. Antony and Falcao are the only two that immediately come to mind. Happy to hear some other candidates?

Bebe was nowhere near premier league quality. A 7m punt is a lot easier to ignore though.

 

[Utd heap]

I genuinely can't think of a worse first team footballer I've seen in my near 30 years of regularly going to Old Trafford. Antony and Falcao are the only two that immediately come to mind. Happy to hear some other candidates?

It’s to reactionary for me. The lads struggling big time. 23, new country, new league, second manager, different position every week. He’s not the devil.

We’ve had loads of shit players, not many have won Italian young POTY etc etc.

I’d be shocked if he made it here but your comments suit throw away remarks on Twitter or here than a serious podcast.

 

[Ace of Spades]

Ye you should!

But even then it's just one player - most PL teams will have a few players who can improve us, obviously we have some dross in the squad but I'm not accepting that our squad is at a Palace/West Ham level

Squad on paper means very little, our players are currently playing poorly and making stupid mistakes that are very costly currently, something that West Ham/Palace are not doing. Blaming the manager is daft, as last season we should have finished 15th on xPts, we just got very lucky and overperformed our statistics and finished 8th. Right now it is the opposite, where we are underperforming our stats. If the players are as good as you think they are, then why are they performing like amateurs ??

 

[Vault Dweller]

I genuinely can't think of a worse first team footballer I've seen in my near 30 years of regularly going to Old Trafford. Antony and Falcao are the only two that immediately come to mind. Happy to hear some other candidates?

Agreed. He’s absolutely dire. Can barely trap the ball or even pass it, even not under immediate pressure. He’s shocking.

 

[Rood]

I disagree with the statement that Amorim has had plenty of time with the players, the biggest problem has been a lack of time to train. Apart from the 1st training session, it has been consecutive games with no time to train. Even then, statistically there has been a difference already. I am confident that with time we will be better and the results will come, but it won't be smooth till we get there.

Obviously he's not been here even 2 months yet so I'm not asking for the sack or anything, but 11 matches & training sessions is enough time to get a decent initial assessment of the squad

By now I'd expect a more settled line up and stronger defensive set up as a bare minimum

Squad on paper means very little, our players are currently playing poorly and making stupid mistakes that are very costly currently, something that West Ham/Palace are not doing. Blaming the manager is daft, as last season we should have finished 15th on xPts, we just got very lucky and overperformed our statistics and finished 8th. Right now it is the opposite, where we are underperforming our stats. If the players are as good as you think they are, then why are they performing like amateurs ??

Many reasons, some of which are connected: low confidence, struggling to adapt to new system, over rotation, poor choices in starting line up etc

BTW I did actually note that we have played alright in a couple of losses and xG suggests we have been unlucky, but still 6 losses in a month is unprecedented and some questions have to be asked of the manager

 

[Amir]

Agreed. He’s absolutely dire. Can barely trap the ball or even pass it, even not under immediate pressure. He’s shocking.

I think he's shown he can be better than that, but he joined the wrong team, at the wrong time, and at this stage he's probably going through a crisis of confidence. He's in over his head and is sinking.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Bebe was nowhere near premier league quality. A 7m punt is a lot easier to ignore though.

Bebe was also a 20 year old youngster, I don't think he was really signed to be a first teamer.

Incredible goal record though... 1 in every 3.5 games!!

 

[2 man midfield]

Bebe was also a 20 year old youngster, I don't think he was really signed to be a first teamer.

Incredible goal record though... 1 in every 3.5 games!!

Fellaini is up there as well, in terms of technical ability. He stood out like a sore thumb considering he was around actual title winners back then.

 

[Ace of Spades]

Obviously he's not been here even 2 months yet so I'm not asking for the sack or anything, but 11 matches & training sessions is enough time to get a decent initial assessment of the squad

By now I'd expect a more settled line up and stronger defensive set up as a bare minimum


Many reasons, some of which are connected: low confidence, struggling to adapt to new system, over rotation, poor choices in starting line up etc

BTW I did actually note that we have played alright in a couple of losses and xG suggests we have been unlucky, but still 6 losses in a month is unprecedented and some questions have to be asked of the manager

No, it has been like 1 training session and then it has been all games and recovery. Expecting a settled line up when games are coming quickly with little time to recover and players coming back from injury is stupid. At the beginning, Maguire, Yoro, Lindelof, Martinez and Shaw were all injured. It has been all about managing game time and slowly integrating them, and Shaw and Lindelof still got injured again anyway. Overall though, the defense has started to settle, Martinez is our LCB by default, Maguire is center and De ligt is playing on the right. Dalot has started as LWB consistently.
Our defensive set up has gotten stronger, that is a fact. We are giving away fewer shots, and letting teams have less touches in the box than before. We have improved in defense, but we have also got players giving away soft goals from mistakes and stupid decisions, and that is entirely on the players. As for the problem with set pieces, that was there before Amorim as well, and you need time on the training pitch to improve that, which has not been there.

You missed the biggest reason, the players are not as good as you believe. If they were as good as you believe they would not be struggling with confidence, rotation or a new system like some amateurs, the starting line up is also not poor, nor should it affect them in making basic decisions correctly. You are just making excuses for the players for making stupid mistakes.
So, if statistically we have improved in most aspects like having more possession, giving less chances away and creating more opportunities, then that just shows that the system is working. Beyond that is the players responsibility. Blaming the manager when the stats show that your team performed better than the other team and the results were down to the players inability to perform their tasks, is simply ridiculous. Obviously, the results have been shit, but I do not blame the manager for that.
I am confident that things will improve with time. Results usually balance over time with the performance metrics. I would understand the blame if we were being completely outplayed and dominated, but that is not the case. The results are because of the players unexpected mistakes, and seems you are making excuses for them. IIRC, you made a lot of excuses for ETH, when it was obvious that both results and performances were poor.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Ye you should!

But even then it's just one player - most PL teams will have a few players who can improve us, obviously we have some dross in the squad but I'm not accepting that our squad is at a Palace/West Ham level

Yep - this forum has gone from thinking ETH was effectively as good as random bloke United found coaching down the park and dragged the players down to his level, to believing Amorim is Sacchi reborn but he's only got Sunday League players. The truth is always less extreme, the squad should be good enough to challenge 5th-8th with absolute certainty and the hope is with a few elite additions you break into the group above next year.

 

[Rood]

Yep - this forum has gone from thinking ETH was effectively as good as random bloke United found coaching down the park and dragged the players down to his level, to believing Amorim is Sacchi reborn but he's only got Sunday League players. The truth is always less extreme, the squad should be good enough to challenge 5th-8th with absolute certainty and the hope is with a few elite additions you break into the group above next year.

Ye that's about where I'm at - no one expected this squad to challenge for the title and even Top4 was going to be a battle due to lack of strikers, but being around Europa places was the minimum expectation for me.
If you look at the polls before the season started then pretty much everyone here agreed with that too.

Even last season with a weaker squad and crazy injury list we came 8th.

 

[Rood]

No, it has been like 1 training session and then it has been all games and recovery. Expecting a settled line up when games are coming quickly with little time to recover and players coming back from injury is stupid. At the beginning, Maguire, Yoro, Lindelof, Martinez and Shaw were all injured. It has been all about managing game time and slowly integrating them, and Shaw and Lindelof still got injured again anyway. Overall though, the defense has started to settle, Martinez is our LCB by default, Maguire is center and De ligt is playing on the right. Dalot has started as LWB consistently.
Our defensive set up has gotten stronger, that is a fact. We are giving away fewer shots, and letting teams have less touches in the box than before. We have improved in defense, but we have also got players giving away soft goals from mistakes and stupid decisions, and that is entirely on the players. As for the problem with set pieces, that was there before Amorim as well, and you need time on the training pitch to improve that, which has not been there.

You missed the biggest reason, the players are not as good as you believe. If they were as good as you believe they would not be struggling with confidence, rotation or a new system like some amateurs, the starting line up is also not poor, nor should it affect them in making basic decisions correctly. You are just making excuses for the players for making stupid mistakes.
So, if statistically we have improved in most aspects like having more possession, giving less chances away and creating more opportunities, then that just shows that the system is working. Beyond that is the players responsibility. Blaming the manager when the stats show that your team performed better than the other team and the results were down to the players inability to perform their tasks, is simply ridiculous. Obviously, the results have been shit, but I do not blame the manager for that.
I am confident that things will improve with time. Results usually balance over time with the performance metrics. I would understand the blame if we were being completely outplayed and dominated, but that is not the case. The results are because of the players unexpected mistakes, and seems you are making excuses for them. IIRC, you made a lot of excuses for ETH, when it was obvious that both results and performances were poor.

I'm also hopeful that things will improve as you'd think they can't get any worse than 6 losses in a month!
But with Anfield & Emirates next up we could easily be hitting an unprecedented 6 losses in a row - PL managers have been sacked for less.

I noted myself on the podcast that some of the metrics are positive so Amorim deserves more time, but still we are conceeding goals at an alarming rate and he needs to find a solution to that ASAP.
Getting a more settled line up will be key to this.

As we have seen with Ashworth, INEOS are not the patient types - I doubt they will accept a relegation battle and neither will I as our squad is better than that.