MPFG Draft - R1: Synco vs Gio

[Physiocrat]

Synco

Gio

Synco Tactics

Formation
Modern-day 433 with a few tactical twists

Style
Fluid combination football; mix of fast-paced transitions and the usual possession elements for a ~2020s top team

• Wimmer in the "Di Maria" dual role, switching between LCM and LW in possession
• Electric front three of Neymar, Benzema & Futre to make the difference in this game

Peaches to watch
Hacki Wimmer in a perfect spot for his versatile high octane game - bolstering up the midfield & creating synergies with Zebec and Neymar in attack
Paulo Futre as the X factor on the right side

More on both in the match discussion.

Gio Tactics

TAKING CONTROL OF MIDFIELD
The midfield is built around the talents of Andrea Pirlo. As the playmaking heart-beat of Milan's Champions League wins in 2003 and 2007, of Italy's World Cup win in 2006, and the player of the tournament at Euro 2012, he is a serial tournament dominator who delivers against the best teams on the biggest occasions. His £60m price tag was perhaps somewhat of a bargain, but also reflects that building the right set-up around him is not straightforward.

With that in mind, we have paired him first with Edgar Davids whose ravenous ball-winning and recirculating abilities complement Pirlo's attributes. As a partnership it has shades of the highly successful Pirlo/Gattuso dynamic for club and country, but fired up a couple of levels. His other midfield partner is Claudio Marchisio with whom he formed a telepathic tandem as part of the tremendous Juventus midfield of the early to mid 2010s. What I like about Marchisio is his adaptability in different midfield roles - not only does he have the physical (see his side-shuttling roles) and technical (see him assuming the 6 role post-Pirlo) qualities - but he has the tactical intelligence to know how to best complete a midfield unit in the best interests of the team.

STRENGTH AT THE BACK
Franco Baresi leads the defence and is likely to be the most influential player on the park. He should be in his comfort zone both in a back 4 and as part of a San Siro themed defence. His ability to squeeze the game and defend on the front foot should dampen Benzema's impact on the game. To his left is his Milan counterpart Karl-Heinz Schnellinger who mirrors Maldini's ability to defend well centrally - which should serve him well against the in-cutting Futre - while also providing a genuine outlet on the flank, as his 3rd place in the Ballon D'Or (as a LB) shows.

Baresi's partner in the centre is Andrea Barzagli, whose uncompromising no-nonsense style should complement Franco well. Even with his 4 Serie A Team of the Year awards, Barzagli is perhaps the most unheralded of that Juventus defence, but he was arguably the purest defender with the most impressive positioning. Completing the back four is Javier Zanetti who, even up against the trickery of Neymar, has the resumé and high-octane two-way game to take charge of the right flank.

LEADING FROM THE FRONT
Leading the line is the posterboy of the golden age of Serie A, Beppe Signori. He elevated Lazio to title contenders up against some of the greatest teams in history. In a miserly era for attackers, he scored 188 goals in Serie A, achieving a goals-to-game ratio that was better than anyone else in the top 10 Serie A scorers of all time (with the exception of Meazza and Nordahl who both played in somewhat more open eras). He rattled the onion bag against some brilliant defenders, and for instance, boasts an impressive record against Ciro Ferrara, scoring 10 goals and averaging a net-buster every 119.8 minutes.

To his right is Roberto Bettega whose physicality and energy complement Signori and allows our team to defend from the front. Tactically intelligent, he could play in any of the attacking roles and in different systems. His work rate and selflessness will gel the attack and pressurise the opposing back line, both on and off the ball. One of the best I've ever seen in attacking the ball in the air, while his two 4th-place Ballon D'Or finishes show his calibre.

If there is one thing Serie A hasn't quite excelled in over the years, it is wingers. And so our guilty pleasure here is Piet Keizer who is the one divergence from the theme, but a necessary one as his wing-play and Total Voetball style complements the rest of the attack. His 1v1 brilliance will test Maicon to the limits, his 1-in-3 goal record shows he is a major goal threat, while both Bettega and Signori will relish his delivery.

 

[Physiocrat]

@Gio @Synco

Game on!

 

[Himannv]

Great game and two great sides! No idea who to vote for.

 

[Gio]

SERIE A THEME​

		Karl-Heinz Schnellinger the defensive bedrock behind the first great European Cup winning Milan side of the late 1960s and early 1970s Franco Baresi's all-conquering Milan of the 1980s and 1990s Andrea Pirlo's double-CL-winning Milan of the 2000s
		The hard-working Juve winning machine of the '70s and '80s, that owed much to the front-pressing and thrusting attack embodied by Roberto Bettega Lippi's great Juventus units where Edgar Davids ran the midfield The midfield heart of Juve's 9-in-a-row winners in Andrea Pirlo and Claudio Marchisio in front of defensive stalwart Andrea Barzagli.
		Inter's Champions League winners of 2010, built on the defensive axis that included Javier Zanetti and Julio Cesar

 

[Synco]

Good luck @Gio, really good team you've built there.

 

[Gio]

Good luck @Gio, really good team you've built there.

And same to you and your team.

 

[Synco]

One thing my team will naturally try is to attack the flanks. Use the mix of all-time great dribbling ability and support from fast & technical fullbacks (+ situationally Wimmer, more on him later) to create breakthoughs.

On the left side it's Zebec/Neymar/Wimmer who I consider to be an extremely potent trio. Zanetti is undoubtedly a great defender, but he and Barzagli/Marchisio will still have lots of work to do.

On the right side, Futre and Maicon will try to attack Schnellinger as directly as possible. Getting Futre and Schnellinger into a few 1:1s would be golden. But I'd back Futre to even get his moments against Baresi or Davids. Despite the presence of Neymar, he's the best dribbler on the pitch. More on him later too.

Add Benzema, who loves to create wide overloads as well, and there's a vast possibility for short passing, movement, dribbling, final balls.

Not going to oversell this, Gio's team is great, especially on the defensive side. But I feel this attacking unit still has the necessary calibre to give them a game and win the match.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Great teams, probably 2 of the best ones from R1 but a no brainer for me (surprisingly). That is as good a Pirlo team as it gets, I would put good money on the team reaching the final at the very least.

 

[TheReligion]

Two lovely teams and at first glance, and personal preference, I favour @Gio .

That core of Julio Cesar, Baresi, Barzagli, Pirlo and Davids is really easy on the eye (although I’m interested to know more detail on the role of Davids as potentially prefer him as a two with the less mobile Pirlo and with Marchisio slightly ahead centrally)

 

[General_Elegancia]

As I’m a diehard Calcio and Milan supporter, Gio’s team is such a marvelous thing. Great combination between Milan, Juve and Inter. And yeah in present days, I think Bettega will perform at rw in 4-3-3 or target striker with great work rate( Bettega was great at one-two and link-up play with another striker too, as he demonstrated that with Rossi in wc1978).

Both are great teams and at the moment, I can’t decide it.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Yeah, have to give this to Gio. As mentioned in OP, Keizer does feel a bit standalone in this setup as that front 3 of both Foggia and Lazio was very flexible with Signori (and the other two forwards) in free roles. With Keizer in, he seems to lacks some of that flexibility here. Though good, it's something that I believe needs to be improved in later rounds.

Not sure on the choice of Wimmer for that role. probably Netto might be a better fit, or even someone like Deco.

 

[Synco]

Guess my main advantage lies in the superior strength of my attacking unit, while I'd back my defense to contain Gio's offense.

Gio has concentrated pretty much exclusively on defense and central midfield with his funds. He got damn good value for money for his 30m attackers, but I don't think the gap between Signori/Keizer/Bettega and Benzema/Neymar/Futre can be denied in terms of unlocking and beating a defense.

Adding to that, his setup as a whole is pretty conservative (fitting for a Serie A team, tbf). I count four players with genuine final third impact, and one of them is Zanetti, a fullback. Others like Marchisio, Davids, or at times Baresi can chip in, but the overall threat this team offers still seems containable.

 

[Synco]

Not sure on the choice of Wimmer for that role.

tl;dr - it's an ideal role for him, and based on how he played in real life (rapid BTB/winger hybrid, considerable attacking ability). One of the peaches who can have a real impact on the course of this game, in and out of possession.
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Why Wimmer is a peach

In Germany and beyond, Herbert "Hacki" Wimmer is chiefly known for being the Yin to Günter Netzer's Yang - his wingman, watercarrier, adjutant. Which is more or less true, but at the same time only half of the story, at best. As so often in German football folklore, this image owes more to traditional stereotypes than the footballer. It quickly comes apart when watching the player actually play.

True is: Wimmer was indeed a perfect companion to Netzer, both for Gladbach's legendary 60s/70s side and - on and off - the West German national team. But not because he was a mere support player, let alone an "early example of the Mascherano type" (Jonathan Wilson), but because he combined workrate and an eye for balance with a wide set of offensive abilities. A true all action player.

First of all, he was fast - very fast. He played much of his earlier career as a pacy winger and kept this part of his game as a midfielder. His trademark attacking bursts were the perfect outlet for Netzer's pinpoint passes, and created breakthroughs or spaces for his teammates to attack.

Then he had good technique and creative ability - he could dribble at speed and combine with his offensive teammates, he could whip in crosses, he could attack the box and score. All of this with both feet. In Hennes Weisweiler's words: "Although he's not a genius like Netzer on his great days, Hacki can run a game too."

And, of course, he did have all the qualities he's now primarily associated with in abundance: team orientation, massive workrate, the stamina to run for 90 minutes.

So what made him an elite player in his day was actually his versatility - an aggressive Duracell bunny who could both defend with tactical discipline and disrupt the opposition defense. In offense he loved to alternate between central and wide areas, perfectly embodying the fluid style of the perhaps greatest German national side of all time, the 1972 EURO winners.

This is exactly how I will play him here.

Wimmer in this draft side

What I called the "Di Maria" role in the OP for illustration purposes may just as well be called the "Wimmer role". It's simply his natural game ever since he played as a midfielder. Gio's strength in central midfield requires Wimmer's presence as a third midfielder to provide physicality and shut down spaces. But the fluid attacking style also allows for his extensive offensive movement, switching between central and wide areas to create collective dynamics and openings.

Wimmer will form a high-intensity midfield trio with Dunga and Kimmich against the ball, while also having fun with Zebec and Neymar on the left attacking side. I think the synergetic potential of this triangle is huge: the combined pace and intensity of Zebec and Wimmer supporting Neymar to express himself.

Wimmer in moving pictures

Gladbach's 1973 DFB cup final win against Overath's 1. FC Köln (the one with Netzer's substitution stunt). Wimmer scores the opener:




Joga's nice little Wimmer compilation:




The 1972 EURO final. Wimmer scores Germany's second goal after a nice run into CF position (0:30):

 

[Physiocrat]

I'm trying to decide a winner here but it looks like a draw to me.

@Gio Do you have anything on Bettega? I don't know him too well.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

I'm trying to decide a winner here but it looks like a draw to me.

@Gio Do you have anything on Bettega? I don't know him too well.

I just watched his last ever match for Juve, so he was well beyond his best then, but he was still a formidable threat in the air and just a nuisance physically in general. Looks a very good fit in terms of providing some muscle and physicality that might otherwise be lacking with Signori leading the line.

Brutal draw as I reckon this might be the two best teams we've seen in the first round. Edging towards Synco on the strength of that menacing attacking line coupled with the front-foot supporting cast, but there's not many chinks in Gio's defence. I don't love Schnellinger from what I've seen admittedly, and an adroit dribbler of Futre's calibre might cause him a few problems.

 

[Synco]

What do people make of Schnellinger at LB in a zonal back 4?

Over time, I've grown a bit suspicious of these right-footed 50s/60s "attacking LBs" of the man-marking era getting expected to play like modern back 4 left backs. They usually seemed to be defenders first who go on the occasional surprise attacking run, rather than an actual steady outlet on the left flank. They also often seemed to prefer diagonal runs towards the box rather than going high & wide (which was usually the domain of the wingers).

As defenders, they often seemed to have clear man-marking jobs, rather than really defending like a zonal era fullback.

For example, here is Ball vs Schnellinger in the 1966 WC final. Schnellinger follows him all across the pitch rather than defending the left back zone. I remember seeing similar from him in the semis against the USSR. I've also seen Breitner play like this when nominally at LB, Facchetti too iirc.

Spoiler

(And, as a slightly selfish remark on this draft game, Schnellinger has his troubles here against a player who is still a good deal below Futre's level of high speed dribbling )

That said, my full game exposure to Schnellinger is limited to 1966-1970. In the really good games I've seen from him, he usually played center back/sweeper, both for Milan and West Germany. (I thought he was brilliant in the 1970 WC team, for example.)

So what did he play like in the early 60s when he got serious Ballon d'Or voting recognition, anyone watched any games?

--------------
Edit - tbc: even in case my point here isn't totally off the mark, it doesn't automatically mean Schnellinger (or any other old school LB) couldn't play a more modern LB role. But I think it always has to be argued why someone's traits make him a good option anyhow, even if his historical role may have been different.

 

[Synco]

Think I need to put a little more weight to my front three argument. Imagine these three guys joining forces, helped by a great supporting cast.

The peach gets the first spot - Futre highlights from Madrid derbys:




Neymar as creator:



(Not that he lacks volume scoring.)

...and the King goes last:

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Gave it to Synco by a whisker here, despite being able to confidently say I'd have voted for Gio against any other opponent. Got to say the way Gio has blended the bargain bucket 30m guys into the whole has been very impressive, with all of them looking in their element here.

 

[Synco]

Gave it to Synco by a whisker here, despite being able to confidently say I'd have voted for Gio against any other opponent. Got to say the way Gio has blended the bargain bucket 30m guys into the whole has been very impressive, with all of them looking in their element here.

Yeah, agree there, top drafting.

 

[Gio]

What do people make of Schnellinger at LB in a zonal back 4?

Over time, I've grown a bit suspicious of these right-footed 50s/60s "attacking LBs" of the man-marking era getting expected to play like modern back 4 left backs. They usually seemed to be defenders first who go on the occasional surprise attacking run, rather than an actual steady outlet on the left flank. They also often seemed to prefer diagonal runs towards the box rather than going high & wide (which was usually the domain of the wingers).

As defenders, they often seemed to have clear man-marking jobs, rather than really defending like a zonal era fullback.

For example, here is Ball vs Schnellinger in the 1966 WC final. Schnellinger follows him all across the pitch rather than defending the left back zone. I remember seeing similar from him in the semis against the USSR. I've also seen Breitner play like this when nominally at LB, Facchetti too iirc.

Spoiler

(And, as a slightly selfish remark on this draft game, Schnellinger has his troubles here against a player who is still a good deal below Futre's level of high speed dribbling )

That said, my full game exposure to Schnellinger is limited to 1966-1970. In the really good games I've seen from him, he usually played center back/sweeper, both for Milan and West Germany. (I thought he was brilliant in the 1970 WC team, for example.)

So what did he play like in the early 60s when he got serious Ballon d'Or voting recognition, anyone watched any games?

--------------
Edit - tbc: even in case my point here isn't totally off the mark, it doesn't automatically mean Schnellinger (or any other old school LB) couldn't play a more modern LB role. But I think it always has to be argued why someone's traits make him a good option anyhow, even if his historical role may have been different.

I think that's the same for many. From what I can tell, there's the younger Schnellinger who was an early bloomer at LB and then moved centrally in his late 20s and into his 30s. Problem is most of our full-match understanding is later in his career. I would be reluctant to judge his fit as a LB where he won a Ballon D'Or 3rd place and a German Footballer of the Year at 22-23, based on matches later in his career.

It's hard to say how he interpreted the role and ideally we'd have more footage of his Koln career. It's quite possible he was your typical 1960s full-back who was positionally reserved, but looking at his skillset for a more modern interpetation of the role he doesn't look out of place. He looked comfortable defending both zonally and man-to-man. His good ability on the ball is pretty clear based on the testimony of Kicker below and what I've seen of him in the 1960s. His passing and crossing were always effective weapons that Seeler in particular enjoyed attacking. For example, Schnellinger meatily tackling Chislenko here, striding forward and threading a through ball to Seeler to twat home in the semi-final against Soviet Union gives confidence that he could play as an effective two-way full-back in the modern game. The physicality to win the ball, the instinct to carry it forward with purpose, and the measured pass, all check out as traits for the modern full-back.

Karl-Heinz SCHNELLINGER
World class: 8 times
International class: 3 times
Broad circle: 3 times
Considered: 1 time

The tall Schnellinger became one of the best German defenders renowned for his physical presence, pace and winning mentality, he impressed already at an early age, playing his first World Cup aged 19 in 1958. When he signed for Köln in 1959 coming from Düren 99, he was often playing as a half back but soon settled as a left back. In this position, he reached the absolute top level in international football the following years, impressing with his good overview, positioning, pace and aerial ability. Equipped with a very good touch, Schnellinger was adept at build up with his good passing skills but also an uncompromising tackler who was hard to beat in one-on-one situations. A hard-boiled nature, Schnellinger was hard to ruffle and with his stoic calmness he was very influential on his teammates. By 1960, Schnellinger was rated as Germany’s no. 1 full back and after his impressive display at the 1962 World Cup, where he easily was Germany’s best-performing player, he was also considered one of the best full backs worldwide. Soon after the ’62 World Cup, Schnellinger left Germany to play in Italy and he is now mostly associated with being the defensive pillar of the star-studded AC Milan side of the 1960s and early-1970s. In his first four years at Milan, Schnellinger was playing as a full back but by 1969 he was predominantly deployed as a defensive sweeper and formed a fine central defensive partnership with stopper Roberto Rosato. Schnellinger was intended to act as a left back for Germany in the 1970 World Cup but after standard sweeper Willi Schulz picked up an injury in the first game against Morocco, Schnellinger adopted the sweeper role and became one of the best sweepers of that tournament.

 

[Himannv]

What do people make of Schnellinger at LB in a zonal back 4?

Over time, I've grown a bit suspicious of these right-footed 50s/60s "attacking LBs" of the man-marking era getting expected to play like modern back 4 left backs. They usually seemed to be defenders first who go on the occasional surprise attacking run, rather than an actual steady outlet on the left flank. They also often seemed to prefer diagonal runs towards the box rather than going high & wide (which was usually the domain of the wingers).

As defenders, they often seemed to have clear man-marking jobs, rather than really defending like a zonal era fullback.

For example, here is Ball vs Schnellinger in the 1966 WC final. Schnellinger follows him all across the pitch rather than defending the left back zone. I remember seeing similar from him in the semis against the USSR. I've also seen Breitner play like this when nominally at LB, Facchetti too iirc.

Spoiler

(And, as a slightly selfish remark on this draft game, Schnellinger has his troubles here against a player who is still a good deal below Futre's level of high speed dribbling )

That said, my full game exposure to Schnellinger is limited to 1966-1970. In the really good games I've seen from him, he usually played center back/sweeper, both for Milan and West Germany. (I thought he was brilliant in the 1970 WC team, for example.)

So what did he play like in the early 60s when he got serious Ballon d'Or voting recognition, anyone watched any games?

--------------
Edit - tbc: even in case my point here isn't totally off the mark, it doesn't automatically mean Schnellinger (or any other old school LB) couldn't play a more modern LB role. But I think it always has to be argued why someone's traits make him a good option anyhow, even if his historical role may have been different.

In the game I watched of him, he looked quite good defensively in a zonal back 4. He has this odd languid style of running with his head drooping forward that makes him appear slow, but he's not slow in my view. His defensive style is mostly to anticipate and it's when something happens that he hasn't anticipated that he moves faster to snuff the problem out.

Offensively I wouldn't expect him to replicate a modern fullback though. He's not the type to overlap a winger who is cutting in, or even whip crosses in. What he does is fizz passes forward from deep, mostly to a more central region. Also, from what I saw, when he ventures forward, it's clear he's a right-footer playing left-back because he gravitates more centrally. He's clearly a good passer though and can definitely aid in passing it out from the back. I suppose he can be a Pep-style fullback in a Cancelo role who can be used to slot in next to the DM in the attacking phase, but it's just my impression and I don't know if that kind of tactic would expose him too much defensively.

 

[Synco]

Cheers guys for your Schnellinger replies, logging out now for the rest of the match. The topic of old school FBs is probably a good one for a more general in-depth discussion at some point. Seen this popping up in some form in pretty much every draft recently.

 

[Synco]

Congrats @Gio, comfortable win. I curse the draft gods for getting to play your team in round 1.

 

[Gio]

Congrats @Gio, comfortable win. I curse the draft gods for getting to play your team in round 1.

You've got a good team here, tactically spot on, and every player in perfectly fitting roles.

 

[Synco]

You've got a good team here, tactically spot on, and every player in perfectly fitting roles.

Cheers, wasn't even my plan (which was an attacking 343). Had to switch everything around for the strength of your CM, hence the Wimmer role.

Had some tasty ideas for a 4231 after RR, but it wasn't meant to be.

 

[Physiocrat]

I voted Synco. It was very close but came to the conclusion Signori was not ideal as the CF in this setup, especially with a proper LW. Also Zebec would give Synco more variety in attack.

I think Schnellinger at LB looks fine, I interpreted his role as a pretty defensive one allowing more freedom for Baresi.