MPFG Draft - R1: PaulScholes18 vs Physio

[Physiocrat]

PaulScholes18

Physio

PaulScholes18 Tactics

433 in possession with Abidal tucks in and Walker joining Rodri in midfield (Just like IRL).

Tita-taka style of play, no surprise as 10/11 have played under or worked with Pep and the one who hasn’t is arguably the best ball playing defender of his generation so he would fit the system like a glove.

High press - 6 second rule before dropping back into shape

Physio Tactics

Tactics – Direct/ Mixed
Formation – 433/Modern WM
Defensive Line – Balanced to High
Marking – Zonal

The inspiration behind the side was to create a modern WM. One of the full-backs will stay back in possession forming a back three whilst the other either goes into midfield or provides an overlap. This will provide an excellent basis to get the best out of the talents of Cancelo and Junior (he began his career as an attacking right back and behind a genuine winger in this role, he will thrive).

Having the broad WM shape provides many passing options and thus routes to goals. The back four are all good on the ball, including of course Allison, so moving the ball up through the lines should be relatively easy – this will also be handy in breaking PaulScholes18 press which he will no doubt utilise. Gilberto Silva was no Paul Scholes but his tidy safe play will fit in nicely at the base of the complimentary midfield 3 – Gascoigne the B2B playmaker and Brady the 10/8 hybrid who will especially enjoy being high up the pitch to slot in any of the front three. Barnes and Littbarski are there to stretch the pitch horizontally as much as possible to allow Gascoigne and Brady to move into the half spaces; clearly they do have some freedom to cut in, in the final third. Up front is the forgotten man in draft land: John Charles. A Juve legend who despite his height wasn’t just a target man: I rewatched harms’ all-touch compilation and was impressed at his touch and link up play. He will be an excellent reference to point to knit the attack together. He will also enjoy the crosses from Barnes and Littbarski.

When we lose the ball we will immediately counter press but if the ball is not won back quickly we will drop to our own half and then half-court press the opposition: all the side is very hardworking and suited to the task. If the opposition manages to get in behind Allison during the counter press phase Allison is an accomplished sweeper keeper to snuff out such danger. In the organised defensive phase we will assume a 4411 shape (normal defensive line) with Brady in the AM position – when we win the ball back he can drop back and ping it out wide to Littbarski or Barnes.

Spoiler: Various formations in possession

Spoiler: Formation in the Organised Defensive Phase

 

[Physiocrat]

@paulscholes18

Game on!

 

[Physiocrat]

@paulscholes18

That's a nice attempt at a peak Pep Barca side especially the front 3 and midfield 3. I think however Walker is a bad fit for the system. Pedro is not really a right winger like Mahrez, Pedro is more a right forward who needs an attacking RB behind him. So either I expect Pedro stays wide right and makes fewer runs forward to give Messi room as false 9 or your attack on the right wing become rather narrow: obviously this will make it some what easier to defend against the front three.

 

[paulscholes18]

All the best,
Both of us have set up very similar then with a inverted full back and one tucking inside, whether blowing my whole budget on Messi and Iniesta before having to go to the bargain bucket instead of spreading the funds around remains to be seen.

 

[Physiocrat]

All the best,
Both of us have set up very similar then with a inverted full back and one tucking inside, whether blowing my whole budget on Messi and Iniesta before having to go to the bargain bucket instead of spreading the funds around remains to be seen.

The crucial difference however is that I have genuine wingers who do not need an overlapper to be effective (although my full-backs will provide that option on occasions as per the OP) whereas you need width from outside your front three to allow Messi full-freedom.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

While I do agree that someone more aggressive than Walker would make more sense going forward, Walker is still a very decent attacking outlet IMO. Not bad at all for R1.

Both excellent teams to be honest.

I am not sold on Junior at RB but am not knowledgeable on his younger days. Behind Littbarski, he might be fine though.

Love the Arteta pick, used to be one of my favorite PL players back in his Everton days.

Coming to voting on the game, it's a no brainer for me despite both teams being great. You pick Messi in a budget constrained draft like this, you will lose unless you get the dynamics spot on. But if you do get them spot on, it's an easy win. And for me PS got the dynamics spot on with the front 3 and midfield.

Using modern players in R1 was a great outlet in this draft IMO and PS did it nicely.

 

[Physiocrat]

I am not sold on Junior at RB but am not knowledgeable on his younger days. Behind Littbarski, he might be fine though.

He played as an attacking RB in the early part of his career although to my knowledge there are no games showing him playing RB. Also the role I am mostly asking of him is the same that he played at LB even though it is at RB, mostly inverted behind a traditional winger which is exactly what I am requiring here.

While I do agree that someone more aggressive than Walker would make more sense going forward, Walker is still a very decent attacking outlet IMO. Not bad at all for R1.

He is playing him as an inverted RB. There aren't going to that many overlapping runs from him. If he was tasked with playing as an attacking RB it would at least make sense even if it wasn't something Walker would thrive doing, but he isn't being asked yo do that.

On an entirely different subject, this is great video showcasing Charles all-round game. He starts at CB here but moves forward later on. What I was most impressed by was his link up play and movement. He will knit the front together really well.

 

[Synco]

@Physiocrat
Can you explain why you chose the M possession shape over the W for your back five?

One of Cancelo/Junior getting stuck in a back three seems like a waste, and conversely, both starting from the higher half spaces (in a W) would to put them in a perfect spot to operate (imo). I'd also totally back T. Silva/Bossis to cover the space behind them on their own, with the support of G. Silva.

But I don't have much clue about buildup strategies, so would be thankful for your thoughts.

 

[Synco]

I think @paulscholes18 has done a great job in taking the GOATs and peaches theme literally. Building around Messi is hard, but the theme of 30m Pep players (and Iniesta) plus some smart drafting have made this a very nice team.

One question mark for me is the Piqué/Bonucci CB duo, which is great in possession, but perhaps not 100% ideal against the ball. Probably still works for a side like this, but a faster and more hands-on partner might help each of them. Charles and Gazza are no joke.

Can't say much on the Walker discussion. The caveats sound plausible, but I don't know the player well enough.

 

[Physiocrat]

@Physiocrat
Can you explain why you chose the M possession shape over the W for your back five?

One of Cancelo/Junior getting stuck in a back three seems like a waste, and conversely, both starting from the higher half spaces (in a W) would to put them in a perfect spot to operate (imo). I'd also totally back T. Silva/Bossis to cover the space behind them on their own, with the support of G. Silva.

But I don't have much clue about buildup strategies, so would be thankful for your thoughts.

I chose the M primarily due to defensive solidity as well as giving them more freedom when they go forward. This of course depends on the press working but there are many times I have seen sides carved open on the counter outwide with a W at the back as there is a lot of space there. Keeping the back three defends the space that bit better. Whilst it is true that both Cancelo and Junior like getting forward, having only one go at once would give them more freedom when they did go forward knowing the other would be more reserved - this is little different than having balanced traditional full-backs with one going and the other staying back.

 

[harms]

@Physiocrat I'll send you the bill



It's only John Charles' second season playing as a striker — he faces a formidable opponent in Billy Wright (in my mind, the greatest CB of the 50's) and somehow manages to score twice despite Wright pulling out a defensive master-class. In the words of Norman Giller:

The duel between John Charles and Billy Wright was worth the admission money on its own. Two great and talented competitors locked in a struggle for supremacy. Charles won on points, but it would have been a knockout against any other England centre-half that the selectors had tried since the Neil Franklin fiasco. Wright managed to shut the big man out for most of the match, but he took the two chances that came his way in dynamic style

 

[Synco]

This of course depends on the press working but there are many times I have seen sides carved open on the counter outwide with a W at the back as there is a lot of space there.

Understandable, and Messi - Iniesta - Pedro - Foden is indeed a considerable threat.

this is little different than having balanced traditional full-backs with one going and the other staying back.

Although two guys bombing forward is cool too

 

[Gio]

It’s a classic piece of drafting from Paulscholes hunting out great synergies and value.

In physio’s favour I’d back Charles to flatten those centre-halves.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

nice attempt from Scholes but sadly for him Physio is just too strong. Problem with going Barca Tiki Taka is that in a draft game you gonna field a weaker team then original in 9 out of 10 times. It can still be a great team mind you but people will naturally compare it with the original team.

Physio that midfield is a thing of beauty, fuming at myself for not spotting Gilberto of the list! But also dont like Junior in that role, he was pretty much gung ho in his offensive approach so i would maybe buy him in Cancelo role but funnily enough you have Cancelo there One of them needs to be a cover in midfield and neither is capable of that.

 

[Synco]

@Physiocrat I'll send you the bill



It's only John Charles' second season playing as a striker — he faces a formidable opponent in Billy Wright (in my mind, the greatest CB of the 50's) and somehow manages to score twice despite Wright pulling out a defensive master-class. In the words of Norman Giller:

Very much hoped you'd do this compilation once I saw the game on THR.

 

[Physiocrat]

@Physiocrat I'll send you the bill



It's only John Charles' second season playing as a striker — he faces a formidable opponent in Billy Wright (in my mind, the greatest CB of the 50's) and somehow manages to score twice despite Wright pulling out a defensive master-class. In the words of Norman Giller:

Great work and great performance. Do you want US Dollars or Rubles?

 

[General_Elegancia]

Lovely stuff from both

I suppose Physio will be very effective in counter-attack and can cause a lot of problems to opponent’s team and Charles would make a lot of troubles to Pique and Bonucci.

 

[Jim Beam]

You can't play Bonucci in the high line. Same as Thiago Silva tbf, but I keep that one still to myself.

 

[Physiocrat]

You can't play Bonucci in the high line. Same as Thiago Silva tbf, but I keep that one still to myself.

Why can't you play Thiago Silva in a high line? At his peak he was very athletic and pacy.

 

[Physiocrat]

Physio that midfield is a thing of beauty, fuming at myself for not spotting Gilberto of the list!

But also dont like Junior in that role, he was pretty much gung ho in his offensive approach so i would maybe buy him in Cancelo role but funnily enough you have Cancelo there One of them needs to be a cover in midfield and neither is capable of that.

Would you expect Cancelo and Junior to want to go forward in every organised attacking phase? As I explained to Synco I don't see this being much different than having more traditional balanced full-back roles where one attacks and the other stays deeper. I'm also not sure what you mean by a cover in midfield.

 

[Jim Beam]

Why can't you play Thiago Silva in a high line? At his peak he was very athletic and pacy.

He refused to play high line against Barcelona ignoring Emery instructions and still got butchered 6-1. You have quotes about it all over the net. He is a class player but overrated imo and if you isolate him on a bigger pitch he will struggle. Also, a captain who got scared and refused to take a penalty in 2014 WC is another massive question mark on him.

Sorry to sound harsh, but I don't rate him as much as others.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Would you expect Cancelo and Junior to want to go forward in every organised attacking phase? As I explained to Synco I don't see this being much different than having more traditional balanced full-back roles where one attacks and the other stays deeper. I'm also not sure what you mean by a cover in midfield.

It doesnt work like that, otherwise we would be living in @Enigma_87 world where great players will always make it work between each other because well, they are great

Both Cancelo and Junior to play great they have to play their own way. You let one of them run their game(Cancelo actually running the game, Junior bombarding forward through central areas) while other fullback stays back and protects if we talking about your system of them moving into central positions. Junior only moves there with the ball(as a fullback) and its always gung ho attacking, just cant see it performing a role you need for this to work.

feck, just saw monstrosity of what you did in possession formation....will have to think about this if this is enough to remove myself from votes.

 

[Physiocrat]

It doesnt work like that, otherwise we would be living in @Enigma_87 world where great players will always make it work between each other because well, they are great

Both Cancelo and Junior to play great they have to play their own way. You let one of them run their game(Cancelo actually running the game, Junior bombarding forward through central areas) while other fullback stays back and protects if we talking about your system of them moving into central positions. Junior only moves there with the ball(as a fullback) and its always gung ho attacking, just cant see it performing a role you need for this to work.

feck, just saw monstrosity of what you did in possession formation....will have to think about this if this is enough to remove myself from votes.

I'm guessing your objection is with the Junior and Cancelo combination working in the system than the principle of the system itself?

I would note I am not expecting them to always go into CM, they are flexible and can go down the flanks if they wish too. Also don't take the M of the back 5 in the possession phase too literally. When positioned in the CM position Junior and Cancelo are not expected to just hold the position, they can also get forward more but more centrally on many occasions.

 

[Physiocrat]

He refused to play high line against Barcelona ignoring Emery instructions and still got butchered 6-1. You have quotes about it all over the net. He is a class player but overrated imo and if you isolate him on a bigger pitch he will struggle. Also, a captain who got scared and refused to take a penalty in 2014 WC is another massive question mark on him.

Sorry to sound harsh, but I don't rate him as much as others.

Have you any links? I don't remember that stuff against Barca.

I just checked the penalty stuff from 2014 and it is not as bad as you make out. He missed two of his previous three penalties so didn't want to take one.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I'm guessing your objection is with the Junior and Cancelo combination working in the system than the principle of the system itself?

I would note I am not expecting them to always go into CM, they are flexible and can go down the flanks if they wish too. Also don't take the M of the back 5 in the possession phase too literally. When positioned in the CM position Junior and Cancelo are not expected to just hold the position, they can also get forward more but more centrally on many occasions.

tbh i was posting before seeing a possession picture as i assumed its going to be something else.....seeing what you put in there, i have objection of that specific combination working. In fact i think its shocking you went for second one rather then someone who can transition to a back 3

 

[Physiocrat]

tbh i was posting before seeing a possession picture as i assumed its going to be something else.....seeing what you put in there, i have objection of that specific combination working. In fact i think its shocking you went for second one rather then someone who can transition to a back 3

I think they can easily translate into a back three and play make from deep as a wide CB. As I repeat it isn't too dissimilar to balanced full backs where one stays and one goes. Also, I like the idea of both being able to move into CM and attack rather than having one player who stays and one who goes as it gives more variety in attack. The opposition does not know if there will be a supporting full-back on the left or the right.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I think they can easily translate into a back three and play make from deep as a wide CB. As I repeat it isn't too dissimilar to balanced full backs where one stays and one goes. Also, I like the idea of both being able to move into CM and attack rather than having one player who stays and one who goes as it gives more variety in attack. The opposition does not know if there will be a supporting full-back on the left or the right.

Well, thats a problem as neither is a balanced fullback and who ever stays(if they stay) in a back 3 will get toasted on the counter. Specially when Cancelo stays in a back 3 as Junior will bombard forward so when you lose possession its going to be a mess if opposition can transition quickly(luckily for you thats the opposite of their playing style).

 

[Physiocrat]

Well, thats a problem as neither is a balanced fullback and who ever stays(if they stay) in a back 3 will get toasted on the counter. Specially when Cancelo stays in a back 3 as Junior will bombard forward so when you lose possession its going to be a mess if opposition can transition quickly(luckily for you thats the opposite of their playing style).

Is that due to positioning or due to numbers back? I chose the broadly M shape as having 3 in the back line can cover the space in behind better than can a W shape unless the inverted full-backs are positionally very reserved,

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Is that due to positioning or due to numbers back? I chose the broadly M shape as having 3 in the back line can cover the space in behind better than can a W shape unless the inverted full-backs are positionally very reserved,

formation wise its fine, initially i thought its a W shape with Gilberto dropping a bit deeper but in both cases the issue is in personnel IMO, if you had someone else at the position of Junior it would be great. Cant be bothered to think some lesser name so will go with GOATs, someone of Zanetti/Lahm style and you golden.

 

[Physiocrat]

formation wise its fine, initially i thought its a W shape with Gilberto dropping a bit deeper but in both cases the issue is in personnel IMO, if you had someone else at the position of Junior it would be great. Cant be bothered to think some lesser name so will go with GOATs, someone of Zanetti/Lahm style and you golden.

That's fair enough. All I'll add is that Brazil in 82 (I know very different system) had both Leandro and Junior at full-back so I don't think Cancelo and Junior is too crazy.

 

[Jim Beam]

Have you any links? I don't remember that stuff against Barca.

I just checked the penalty stuff from 2014 and it is not as bad as you make out. He missed two of his previous three penalties so didn't want to take one.

https://www.getfootballnewsfrance.c...e-thiago-silva-to-defend-higher-up-the-pitch/

Look, he is class. Rate him as a best defender on the pitch and Bonucci is a much bigger problem especially as he has Pique alongside of him with Brady and Gascoigne dominating the midfield (and midfield wins you games more than anything). But I don't think he is that great once he leaves his comfort zone.

Anyway, I think you have a better team.

 

[Physiocrat]

https://www.getfootballnewsfrance.c...e-thiago-silva-to-defend-higher-up-the-pitch/

Look, he is class. Rate him as a best defender on the pitch and Bonucci is a much bigger problem especially as he has Pique alongside of him with Brady and Gascoigne dominating the midfield (and midfield wins you games more than anything). But I don't think he is that great once he leaves his comfort zone.

Interesting. I wonder if he would be more receptive if he played higher up on a more regular basis

Anyway, I think you have a better team.

Everyone read this and vote accordingly.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

nice attempt from Scholes but sadly for him Physio is just too strong. Problem with going Barca Tiki Taka is that in a draft game you gonna field a weaker team then original in 9 out of 10 times. It can still be a great team mind you but people will naturally compare it with the original team.

Physio that midfield is a thing of beauty, fuming at myself for not spotting Gilberto of the list! But also dont like Junior in that role, he was pretty much gung ho in his offensive approach so i would maybe buy him in Cancelo role but funnily enough you have Cancelo there One of them needs to be a cover in midfield and neither is capable of that.

Yep. It's a great effort given the budget constraints but just falls short of the mark for me vs Physio's team. Love that front five from Physio, and generally all in favour of using such progressive FBs, although following the discussion I'd agree that either of them falling into a back three doesn't look great.

 

[Physiocrat]

I think Pique and Bonucci against Charles is definitely a mismatch. Despite their height they were never great in the air and Charles is a complete monster with some great supply from Littbarski and Barnes. Further as others have pointed out, Bonucci is ill suited to a high line. He was at his best in a counter attacking 352 with a relatively deep line. Not exactly the type of resume for a Pep Barca remake.

Also Bossis and Silva are very agile defenders who are relatively well suited, as any players can be, to minimise peak Messi especially with a stalwart DM in Gilberto protecting the back 4.

The energy of Brady and Gascoigne will make it very difficult for Rodri et al. We will win turnovers and create a decent amount of chances, and with the Charles mismatch will score.

It is also worth noting that Allison is a much better keeper than Valdes ever was. So if we are dependent on last ditch saves, or a late corner for a winner, Allison is clearly better than Valdes.

 

[Himannv]

Spent some time considering your tactics @Physiocrat - I like most of it and I'm leaning towards voting for you, but that defensive phase formation just seems off to me for a few reasons.

1. I normally expect the general formation graphic to represent defensive formation for the most part.

2. It's just weird to me that they drop into two banks of 4 and then revert to the 4-3-3 and subsequently go 3-2-5. That's just odd.

3. The two banks of 4 don't mesh well with the tactics because you're playing deep and when you win the ball, you need players with pace to exploit the spaces (particularly in wide areas) and if they're all at the back defending, it defeats the purpose. Unless you're saying Brady is going to do that job or something.

4. High line and the low block you depict there are just very different tactics, I'm just confused by how they would work in combination with each other. Just feels very unnatural.

 

[Gio]

@Physiocrat
Can you explain why you chose the M possession shape over the W for your back five?

One of Cancelo/Junior getting stuck in a back three seems like a waste, and conversely, both starting from the higher half spaces (in a W) would to put them in a perfect spot to operate (imo). I'd also totally back T. Silva/Bossis to cover the space behind them on their own, with the support of G. Silva.

But I don't have much clue about buildup strategies, so would be thankful for your thoughts.

Yeah I think the 2-3-5 build-up shape is more in vogue with the more progressive managers now and certainly suits the qualities of Cancelo and Junior better.

 

[Physiocrat]

Spent some time considering your tactics @Physiocrat - I like most of it and I'm leaning towards voting for you, but that defensive phase formation just seems off to me for a few reasons.

1. I normally expect the general formation graphic to represent defensive formation for the most part.

That's fair. I don't expect to have to drop into a 442 that often but PSG with what everyone would say is a 433 with Mbappe, Neymar and Di Maria upfront did this in the defensive phase. Di Maria would go to the right-wing and Neymar to second striker/ AM position with Mbappe upfront. I think it seems odd because you may not normally notice it. Other weird in game changes is when LVG played 3412 at Utd, out of possession Di Maria would go the right wing, Rooney to the left and Mata up top. He did this to protect the wing backs. I'm not saying LVG's tactics were a good idea, I'm just pointing out in game formation changes like this are not as unusual as you think.

2. It's just weird to me that they drop into two banks of 4 and then revert to the 4-3-3 and subsequently go 3-2-5. That's just odd.

I'm not intending the 442 to be that deep . Just the general shape (I have edited the picture in organised defensive phase in the OP) I like 442 in defensive phase as it is very solid and gives you someone closer to the striker than a 451 so he doesn't become isolated. If I knew gifs I would try and show you but here is the verbal explanation. Please ask for clarification if this doesn't make sense.

From the 442, the wingers push high and Brady drops a bit to get on the ball. At this point essentially becomes a 433. If the fast transition is on we go for it. If we have more sustained possession either Cancelo or Junior push up into midfield or as a supporting presence on the wing which makes it a WM of sorts.

Good questions, Himannv, I'm glad you have put thought into my tactical position.

 

[Himannv]

Ok, I'm convinced. Really close game.

 

[Physiocrat]

@antohan @Fortitude @GodShaveTheQueen

We have a draw. Who has the best WAG?

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I don't have Scholes' wag.