MPFG Draft: R1 - EAP vs MichaelF7

With players at their peak, who would win?

  • Total voters
    10
  • Poll closed .

Physiocrat

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EAP

Your-ADGFTY76T7GJteam-formation-tactics.png


MichaelF7

Michaelf7777777-formation-tactics.png


EAP

Formation:

4-3-2-1 Christmas Tree

Defence:

Pagliuca is one the best keepers of his era and will man the goal. One of the GOAT sweepers Armando Picchi leads the defence. To suit his talents, he's flanked by two physical stoppers in Breiegel who plays a LCB role tailored for him and Dzodzuashvili, who will play a defence first game at Right Back. Benarrivo is a two way fullback, competent defensively and able to contribute to attack too.

Nobby Stiles plays his defensive pivot role/ Complete with a huge workrate, tenacious attitude, he's be the platform the the rest of the team.

Attack:

Two top notch wide midfielders in Cocu and Nedved provide the midfield engine. With a defensive fullback defense first fullback behind him, Nedved's creativeness, workrate and versatility will bridge the midfield and attack. Cocu is a top notch left footed B2B player, a solid defensive presence and also a outlet for passing from the flank.

Enzo and Eusebio are perfect duo to bridge midfield and attack. Both can score and create for each other. With a industrious midfield behind them, they have a womderful platform to perform against.

Elkjaer leads the line with his all action physical sytle, lethal in front of goal and occupying defenders with his pace and movement opening up for Enzo/Eusebio to score.

MichaelF7

My team will be playing a lopsided 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 hybrid formation with the mid 1960's version of Abbadie using his nous and experience on both attack and defence on the right flank and Vukas being more advanced and roaming across the attacking third although he will spend more time on the left flank. This is in opposition to the fullbacks where Arce will attack more on the right flank while Carboni will be more of a balanced fullback on the left flank. I will now detail the advantages that I believe I have in this match up.

  • Diego Maradona
  • In previous meetings, my defenders have an advantage against his attackers. Preben Elkjaer has scored 0 goals in 8 games against Collovati and 0 goals in 3 games against Jurgen Kohler while Enzo Francescoli has scored 0 goals in 2 games against Collovati and 0 goals in 5 games against Kohler.
  • I think I also have an advantage in terms of creativity. In addition to Maradona, I have Bulgarelli who was described in 2009 by Fabio Capello as Italy's greatest midfielder and by former teammate and president of the Italian Footballers Association as having the skills of Rivera and Mazzola put together (Link). Additionally, in this post by @Theon Vukas was described as having a similar style to total football. Furthermore Emmanuel Petit is described by the Arsenal website as follows:
  • The left-footed Petit operated from a deep-lying position, equally adept at breaking up play as he was in conducting the style of Arsenal's attack. The back-to-front floater was his trademark, unlocking opposing defences with razor-sharp accuracy.
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    (Link).
 
All the best @Michaelf7777777 .

Since no comments yet, will start the discussion.

This is as good as it gets to contain Maradona imo. Faces a strong midfield destroyer, flanked by two hard working midfielders with high defensive contribution + a solid and compact defence to boot.

On the flip side, I doubt Petit would be able to contain Eusebio's runs. And Francescoli will have space behind Bulgarelli to work his magic.
 
Almost all games with excellent teams in R1 this draft which almost never happens. And we finally have an exception game. Not a fan of either of the teams. Will post some thoughts later.
 
I really rated Petit when he was at Arsenal, but he's up against it here vs Eusebio and Enzo. Not really grasping what Michael was going for here. Edgar's front three is the only unit on other side that really jumps at me, so I'll give him my vote on the strength of that for now.
 
@Michaelf7777777

Why do you prefer the defensive left back behind the roaming winger? You did this in the last draft if I remember correctly. Are there historical examples you are following? My normal thought is to put the attacking full-back behind the roaming winger to provide consistent width.
 
Physiocrat said:
@Michaelf7777777

Why do you prefer the defensive left back behind the roaming winger? You did this in the last draft if I remember correctly. Are there historical examples you are following? My normal thought is to put the attacking full-back behind the roaming winger to provide consistent width.
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1960's Penarol did this with Caetano behind Joya and Forlan behind Abbadie. In this case it was using the strengths of the 30 cost wide players that led me to this decision (as well as worry about whether Nilis/Maradona by themselves had enough goals that led me to select Vukas over Skoglund).

Also, Carboni is a balanced fullback rather than a defensive one in this match.
 
Michaelf7777777 said:
1960's Penarol did this with Caetano behind Joya and Forlan behind Abbadie. In this case it was using the strengths of the 30 cost wide players that led me to this decision (as well as worry about whether Nilis/Maradona by themselves had enough goals that led me to select Vukas over Skoglund).

Also, Carboni is a balanced fullback rather than a defensive one in this match.
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Fair enough you have a historical example although didn't Penarol play with a front 5? Either way I'm still not sure what advantage it gives you. Even if Carboni is balanced to give you better coverage of the pitch it seems to me to make more sense to have the attacking left back behind the roaming winger.
 
For the top pier players Eusebio I thought was perhaps he best value player in the game alongside Baresi and Neeskens - though he can be quite awkward to build around and people seem to disagree on his best position.
 
I unsurprisingly don't know all of Michael's players, but for those I do, he has used his funds very well imo. I see Bulgarelli and Vukas as top picks in this setup. The latter (as far as I can tell from my Zebec research) as the creative world class forward who turns this Maradona-led offense into a real force. Bulgarelli as the kind of hardworking allround midfielder I reckon Diego would love to play with. Getting Kohler with such limited funds is great drafting.

As for the guys I don't know, I'll follow the discussion and hope to learn more.

Really like EAP's front three, can see them working well together, which makes it a super strong attacking force. Downside is that I find the setup as a whole a little top heavy in terms of the spread of quality (counting Benarrivo as an attacking player as well as a defender). I'd probably prefer Cocu at DM there with Nedved at LCM and a different midfielder on the right. Buildup ability looks kind of limited as it is.
 
GodShaveTheQueen said:
Will post some thoughts later.
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For me, Edgar's team as a christmas tree doesn't make much sense. In a Christmas tree, I prefer at least 1 of the 2 inside forwards to have good playmaking capabilities. Francescoli and Eusebio dont offer that IMO.

Its a bad setup for Nedved as well in my eyes. Cluttering the centre hardly gets the best out of him and he is not even on his preferred left side even though he can still do a decent job from the right too.

The team is in fact a much better 4-2-3-1 IMO. You have a good defensive base with Nedved pulling all the strings through the middle and Enzo/Eusebio wrecking havoc on the wings with decent support from the fullbacks. No idea what Breigel is doing at CB in a back 4, probably has played it at some point but ideally should be played as a CB in a back 5 IMO.



For Michael, agree with the below assessment although it perhaps lacks a bit of quality beyond Maradona. Been a fan of Collovati, but him with Kohler is not ideal.

Himannv said:
Isn't it a somewhat typical Maradona team with 10 guys supporting and working hard and Maradona basically doing his thing
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Giving this to Edgar only because he has more chances of winning the draft than Michael based on the current rosters. He needs to ditch the tree though to entice my vote going ahead.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Am curious, what's lacking in Enzo's playmaking abilities? Either as a LF or LAM, he's right there in his element, from what I've watched of him.
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Fair question and he is probably fine there. So I take that back, just got swayed by the much better 4231 in my eyes.
 
Himannv said:
Isn't it a somewhat typical Maradona team with 10 guys supporting and working hard and Maradona basically doing his thing (probably closer to where Welcome and Briegel are but wherever he likes really)?
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It's probably just lack of familiarity with many of his players, but the team shape looks a bit odd, specifically the lack of coverage on the left wing. Nilis was seen as a second striker but I can easily buy him as a playmaking CF, so I guess it's largely Vukas. I know almost nothing about him and feel he needed a better selling job here, but from a bit of digging he doesn't necessarily sound like a guy who would be happy playing a supporting role:

PES forum said:
There are three components to Vukas ’interpretation of football: outplaying, creating, and instilling confidence in his teammates. He was fierce, with fantastic technique, an understanding of football, inexhaustible energy, so he could play in today’s conditions, no matter how incredible it sounded. He used to be impatient, especially towards the players who did not give their all on the field. He was also a soloist in the game, but he did not tolerate that in others, so about Ante Žanetić, a great midfielder and member of the national team, winner of an Olympic gold medal and a silver medal at the first European Championships, Vukas once said:

- It would be better for us if we bought a cow than Lulija (Žanetić's nickname), because at least we would have milk.

And they played together in the team in the 1955/56 championship, Hajduk barely managed to survive. Much later, in the qualifying match for the 1982 World Cup against Italy in Turin (0: 2), Nenad Šalov wore the number ten jersey, so Vukas got angry:

- What an insult to me when Shalov got a number ten!
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Pat_Mustard said:
I guess it's largely Vukas. I know almost nothing about him and feel he needed a better selling job here, but from a bit of digging he doesn't necessarily sound like a guy who would be happy playing a supporting role
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@Jim Beam

My takeaway from watching the 1950s Yugoslavia team is that they played a total football style: pass & move, positional interchanges, collective attitude. One of several such top teams of that era, like Brazil, Hungary, Austria.

To me, Vukas seemed well at home in that collective style, not only coexisting with stars like the Partizan trio of playmaker Stjepan Bobek, versatile forward/striker Milutinovic, and attacking winger Zebec, but their cooperation lifting each other to a higher level.

The only existing full game (England vs the Rest of the World 1953) shows him like this too, linking up with Boniperti, Nordahl, Kubala, and again Zebec. Their interplay repeatedly causes the commentator to fawn over the collective style of continental football.

Caveat is that I'm certainly no expert and may well miss something - I especially can't say anything about off-field stuff. But what I saw in actual footage indicates no such problems. That's why I think Michael hit the jackpot with Vukas, he is the second great attacking player he needed to get this Maradona team going offensively.

Happy to be corrected though if I see things too rosy.
 
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GodShaveTheQueen said:
Fair question and he is probably fine there. So I take that back, just got swayed by the much better 4231 in my eyes.
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Just wanted to reply to this post match. I didn't play a 4231 as neither Picchi nor Briegel were good fits in that backline. One CB, I can hope to get away with, but both is a recipe for disaster no matter how good the rest of team may be.

I was debtaing between a tree and a Grande Inter type off-sync formation and ended up with a mix of both that I didn't really like. It was a best effort mish-mash tbh. Was lucky to survive this round.
 
Synco said:
@Jim Beam

My takeaway from watching the 1950s Yugoslavia team is that they played a total football style: pass & move, positional interchanges, collective attitude. One of several such top teams of that era, like Brazil, Hungary, Austria.

To me, Vukas seemed well at home in that collective style, not only coexisting with stars like the Partizan trio of playmaker Stjepan Bobek, versatile forward/striker Milutinovic, and attacking winger Zebec, but their cooperation lifting each other to a higher level.

The only existing full game (England vs the Rest of the World 1953) shows him like this too, linking up with Boniperti, Nordahl, Kubala, and again Zebec. Their interplay repeatedly causes the commentator to fawn over the collective style of continental football.

Caveat is that I'm certainly no expert and may well miss something - I especially can't say anything about off-field stuff. But what I saw in actual footage indicates no such problems. That's why I think Michael hit the jackpot with Vukas, he is the second great attacking player he needed to get this Maradona team going offensively.

Happy to be corrected though if I see things too rosy.
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Sorry Synco, had some family stuff last week, so forget to answer you on this one. You will have to wait just a bit more because I have Vukas documentary on schedule tonight as am trying to wrap him up more as a player. Will put my thoughts after that.
 
Ok @Synco. Some feedback

Extraordinary dribbler and a player who could cover LW, AM and CF with LW certainly being his best. It is hard to judge him because of the footage and story telling goes to extreme. Still, fantastic close control and style of dribbling similiar to Messi/Finney where the ball is always glue to his feet gliding through defence. Was voted as the best Croatian athlete of the 20th century (polls are always crap though). He is without a doubt Hajduk Split best player. Led them to 3 titles and one in which they were unbeaten which was a fantastic achievement in that league where every away game was tough winning a decisive game in Belgrade pretty much on his own.

As for mentality, he was known as believing to be better than everyone (not just in football, but everything) and was hard on his teammates. But, that was on teammates who he thought were slacking or lacking in talent... Zero problems with someone like Bobek for example in national team who was a supreme player and playing in interchanging system as you say. So, based on that he would love Maradona competitive nature, let alone his skills.

First Yugoslavian player to get permission to go to foreign league and the first one to be considered as one of the very best in Europe after the match against Great Britain where he scored three and assisted one in 4-1 win

https://www.11v11.com/matches/great-britain-v-rest-of-europe-13-august-1955-226551/

However, and simpy because of lack of footage it is hard to get the whole picture. He will most likely go down same as Nordahl, in story tales, which is fair enough.

Michael probably deserved this one though.
 
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Jim Beam said:
Ok @Synco. Some feedback

Extraordinary dribbler and a player who could cover LW, AM and CF with LW certainly being his best. It is hard to judge him because of the footage and story telling goes to extreme. Still, fantastic close control and style of dribbling similiar to Messi/Finney where the ball is always glue to his feet gliding through defence. Was voted as the best Croatian athlete of the 20th century (polls are always crap though). He is without a doubt Hajduk Split best player. Led them to 3 titles and one in which they were unbeaten which was a fantastic achievement in that league where every away game was tough winning a decisive game in Belgrade pretty much on his own.

As for mentality, he was known as believing to be better than everyone (not just in football, but everything) and was hard on his teammates. But, that was on teammates who he thought were slacking or lacking in talent... Zero problems with someone like Bobek for example in national team who was a supreme player and playing in interchanging system as you say. So, based on that he would love Maradona competitive nature, let alone his skills.

First Yugoslavian player to get permission to go to foreign league and the first one to be considered as one of the very best in Europe after the match against Great Britain where he scored three and assisted one in 4-1 win

https://www.11v11.com/matches/great-britain-v-rest-of-europe-13-august-1955-226551/

However, and simpy because of lack of footage it is hard to get the whole picture. He will most likely go down same as Nordahl, in story tales, which is fair enough.

Michael probably deserved this one though.
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Cool, thanks Beam. The question originally came from @Pat_Mustard, who probably got a notification anyway, but still tagging him.

Side note: If you haven't already, you can now watch Nordahl in 16p potato quality in the 1953 exhibition game. Fascinatingly, he's completely unlike the player I have imagined, in an entirely good way.
 
Synco said:


This is the game, btw (not sure if a longer version exists).
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Cheers mate. There was a previous smaller 'record' of this game, but you couldn't see shit and this looks like HD video compared to that. Then you know how that one looked.

I can easily recognize Matthews and Kopa while Vukas is a little, blond fellow which should be number 8 (think that's him dribbling at 14:30). That's him scoring a long range and penalty at the end for sure.
 
Jim Beam said:
I can easily recognize Matthews and Kopa while Vukas is a little, blond fellow which should be number 8 (think that's him dribbling at 14:30). That's him scoring a long range and penalty at the end for sure.
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Also John Charles (#5 for GB) playing like Rijkaard from the back.
 
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