Moores vs Pieteresen - the state of the England cricket team.

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

How do the Caf's cricket fans view the situation?

In whose camp are you? On what side of the line do you fall? Or do you take a third way?

Even if at the end of all this Moores departs his job, it surely sets a dangerous precedent for Pietersen to carry such overwhelming influence over who is coach no?

 

[jgraham]

I can't see how it can be resolved without Moores departing.

I don't really have a side in the matter, but Pietersen can't be taken out of the team really whereas replacing Moores which is as you say setting a dangerous precedent will not really cause as much fuss or be as problematic to the team.

I might add that mine is a completely neutral opinion as I'm not really a cricket fan - what I have said is based on what i've heard and read over th epast few days. It just seems the lesser name in this instance is bound to lose out!

 

[x42bn6]

Morres's appointment reminds me of Steve McClaren and England - rushed and just, well, no.

 

[oleonenumber20]

Morres's appointment reminds me of Steve McClaren and England - rushed and just, well, no.

At the time he was the perfect choice, but yes it was rushed he was appointed the day after Fletcher left. He had county success for sussex, and was involved in the England academy set up before, and after years of having a foreign coach the ECB were only ever going to appoint a English coach. However, and like Macca, he is a better coach than he is manager. His one handed slip practice still amazes me. But like McClaren he seems to be punching to far above his weight.

Tom Moody would be great in my opinion.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Pietersen out as England Captain, really surprising.

 

[B Cantona]

Pietersen had been England captain for just five months

Kevin Pietersen has left his position as England captain in the wake of the row between him and coach Peter Moores.

BBC Sport understands Moores will also leave his post, although it is unclear whether they have quit or been sacked.

"Pietersen gave an ultimatum to the ECB saying 'sack the coach or I go', BBC sport editor Mihir Bose told 5 Live.

"The ECB has said 'we value you as captain but we don't take dictation from you'. So they accepted his ultimatum and he has suffered."

---

Pietersen has his share of critics, but he's a winner. He saw someone holding back the England team, and he wanted rid of them. How this has to end up with him leaving his position too is ridiculous. You might say Piertersen let personality get in the way of his judgement, but I'm damn sure the ECB have done exactly the same thing

Moores should have gone some time ago, and this shouldn't even have been an issue

 

[Frosty]

Good God we shot ourselves in the foot big time here - another Ashes whitewash on the cards if we don't get someone like Tom Moody? Please for the love of mercy get Tom Moody.

 

[Sultan]

Pietersons ego got too big!

I hope England never play him in another match.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

I did wonder if this might happen after it began ot be dragged through Fleet Street, and they say players [unnamed] have raised doubts over Pietersen's captaincy as well. Although the ECB are still denying any knowledge that either Moores or KP have tendered their resignation.

Quite the mess.


Word is however that there'll be a press conference later this afternoon.

Kent's Graham Ford to step in and replace Moores apparently, at least for now.

Strauss seems favourite to be the new captain of the Test side [has done well in the role when an acting capacity and appears from my limited perspective to have a good cricket brain for the job], and by rights he should have been made so so at the time they appointed Flintoff a coupd of years back IMO.

Just heard some discussion on the radio that Rob Key could return to the internationla fold and be named the new captain for the one dayers [though of course he's been in contention before and it has come to nothing].

 

[Sultan]

Strauss was on the verge of being dropped from the team. His forms been pretty indifferent over the last few years to warrant him being given the captains role on a permanent basis. There's also the problem of having an alternative captain for the one-dayers if they go with Strauss.

 

[Pure_red]

Pietersen and Moores are out officialy. Andrew Strauss is set to be Test Captain, no idea about One Day or 20/20 cricket.

Pietersen is Englands best player by some distance. I don't see how the ECB wern't forced to throw their lot with him. This wouldn't be so much of a problem if England had a solid team, but the rest of them are shite bar Flintoff (perenially injured), they need KP to be competitive.

Next coach should be Ford or Moody, but I wouldn't rule out a left-field selection like India did with Gary Kirsten, which has worked wonders for them. Need someone who will faciliate Pietersen's ego, not clash with it.

 

[zing]

Wasn't particularly a good captain, anyway.

From what I've read, I agree with Sultan's comment about his ego..

 

[B Cantona]

If you ask me, it's the system that's broken. The captain, who makes all the decisions when they matter on the field, has his hands tied by the prior decisions of the selectors. Pieterson as captain might have had some input, but clearly he didn't have enough

Reminds me a lot of these director of football systems in football, one man conducts the transfers, another picks the team. It just doesn't work in the vast majority of cases

I believe Pietersen was fighting to make England a better side, and he used what he thought was his sway as captain to do it. Maybe he could have handled the whole thing differently - speaking out in public about it was a crucial mistake, and probably got the backs of the ECB up (who's ego's put Pietersens in the shade in my view) and led to this scenario

Think it's a great shame. Pietersen is exactly the kind of personality I'd want in my captain facing the Aussies. He'll still be in the side, but with no obvious candidate to replace him bar Strauss who was probably a game away from the end of his test career not too long ago with one more poor performance... I think everyone loses

 

[Pure_red]

Thats the tragedy of the matter. Pietersen, to my mind, was doing what he felt was best for the team. If the team was to compete then they needed a captain and coach who had a good understanding. Out of the two, Moores was the more expendable, he should go. Pietersen is by far England's best player, and by a long way the best candidate for the captaincy. He is flawed - there is his ego, and the fact that he is not English, which some people choose to interpret as Pietersen only cares for his career and not the team. But, in spite of that, he is the best candidate, no doubt.

Pietersen is paying the price for forcing the issue, but the blame lies with the ECB for not being proactive and trying hide it under the carpet. A big decision was needed from them and they failed to make it, letting it come to this.

 

[oleonenumber20]

What a cock up from everyone, KP, Moores, and the ECB. If KP and Moores had issues then why wasn't it sorted out before KP was made captain. Strauss will be made captain he knows the job, but god knows who will get the one day/ T20 captains job, this is why KP was the best man for the job big ego or not.

 

[oleonenumber20]

Thats the tragedy of the matter. Pietersen, to my mind, was doing what he felt was best for the team. If the team was to compete then they needed a captain and coach who had a good understanding. Out of the two, Moores was the more expendable, he should go. Pietersen is by far England's best player, and by a long way the best candidate for the captaincy. He is flawed - there is his ego, and the fact that he is not English, which some people choose to interpret as Pietersen only cares for his career and not the team. But, in spite of that, he is the best candidate, no doubt.

Pietersen is paying the price for forcing the issue, but the blame lies with the ECB for not being proactive and trying hide it under the carpet. A big decision was needed from them and they failed to make it, letting it come to this.

although it could be said that the ECB have shown some balls by stating that no one is bigger and better than the team, captain or not.

 

[Pure_red]

although it could be said that the ECB have shown some balls by stating that no one is bigger and better than the team, captain or not.

That can be seen as true, but in reality it was a decision that they were forced to make. There had been murmurings that KP has too much power if he decides the future of the coach from the media ever since this first came out.

The fact of the matter is that the ECB should never have let it come to this. A big decision needed to be made at the beginning, not when they have no choice but to. Reminds me of the Chappell vs Ganguly incident that hit Indian cricket. At that time I thought only in India could the relationship between Captain and Coach come to this, and the whole world aware that the relationship had broken down...seems I was mistaken.

 

[Dowders_Jnr]

What a cock up from everyone, KP, Moores, and the ECB. If KP and Moores had issues then why wasn't it sorted out before KP was made captain. Strauss will be made captain he knows the job, but god knows who will get the one day/ T20 captains job, this is why KP was the best man for the job big ego or not.

I agree with that to some extent. It isn't always the best solution though to have your star player as the captain; it didn't work with Freddie during the last Ashes series and it didn't work that well with Tendulkar or Lara in the past. The fact is that KP is one of only a small handful of players guaranteed to get on the team sheet in both the long and short forms of the game. The problem is an indictement of the lack of depth and quality that England are suffering from at the moment.

It's not ideal to have separate captains, but at the moment, Strauss is the only viable option for the Test team; not only does he know the job but he actually performed pretty well when he skippered the side to a series victory over Pakistan a few years ago. As for the one-day team: can we really go back to Collingwood? - Strauss' ODI record is too mediocre to bring him back into the side - the only other viable option out of the current crop is Flintoff.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

There's a media conference scheduled for six O'Clock at the Oval.

 

[Sultan]

Kevin Pietersen is on holiday in South Africa and started issuing ultimatums to the board. That's bad form from a relative novice. He was always too much of a gob****e to be appointed captain. I again re-iterate, I hope they never play him again, even if he is the second coming.

I hope the coach is not forced to resign or sacked due to Pieterson, just so they can play him in future matches. That would plain wrong from the ECB.

 

[rimaldo]

you have to laugh. we are enough of a joke on the pitch let alone off it. from now on i am officially south african. good day mate. let's throw another shrimp on the barbie.

 

[crappycraperson]

Even though I agree about KP and his ego comments, ECB knew very well that was the case before they appointed him. He has always been a confrontational type of character. That's not a bad thing anyway, I don't think much of England's current cricket team set up but KP is probably the man to get the best out of this bunch.

 

[Sultan]

you have to laugh. we are enough of a joke on the pitch let alone off it. from now on i am officially south african. good day mate. let's throw another shrimp on the barbie.

That all sounds Aussie mate

I think South Africans had a right idea not picking him for the national team.

I hope you like your Tagline - well deserved.

 

[B Cantona]

Kevin Pietersen is on holiday in South Africa and started issuing ultimatums to the board. That's bad form from a relative novice. He was always too much of a gob****e to be appointed captain. I again re-iterate, I hope they never play him again, even if he is the second coming.

I hope the coach is not forced to resign or sacked due to Pieterson, just so they can play him in future matches. That would plain wrong from the ECB.

On holiday after what was a pretty stressful and tiring tour of India, especially from a captains perspective Sults

I think you're being too hard on him. He shouldn't have come out publically and confirmed the clash, that's a no-no. But behind the scenes, which most of this was for the most part, I have no problem with him trying to make improvements that give England the best chance of winning. And while we all know he has an ego on him, I have no doubt that's his primary objective

Moores was a questionable choice in the first place, results under him have been crap considering where we'd got to previously, I can't quite believe you think he should keep his job and throw out the best player we have. Moores backs, cosies up to and excuses losers. England are a losing test nation with him in charge. The ECB have a lot of blame to take here for me

 

[rimaldo]

That all sounds Aussie mate

I think South Africans had a right idea not picking him for the national team.

I hope you like your Tagline - well deserved.

strewth ya flaming gallah. it's all south african lingo.

yeah i think you're right. ego has always been his problem. can't see him in an england shirt again now. just can't see it working. can't see him integrating back into the squad properly without causing a lot of issues. as good as he is i think he will only cause more problems back in the side. always thought being captain would either make or break him.

ah thanks. i'll take that as being your work. cheers. much appreciated.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Do we not also now have a potential cause for further clashes within the playing squad, i mean with these reports that the ECB went to the squad to ask their opinion and support for Pietersen was allegedly lukewarm to say the least.

Restoring unity and a good team spirit will be vital for Strauss [in the West Indiies and going forward if his appointment is permanent] and the new Coach.

 

[Sultan]

On holiday after what was a pretty stressful and tiring tour of India, especially from a captains perspective Sults

I think you're being too hard on him. He shouldn't have come out publically and confirmed the clash, that's a no-no. But behind the scenes, which most of this was for the most part, I have no problem with him trying to make improvements that give England the best chance of winning. And while we all know he has an ego on him, I have no doubt that's his primary objective

Moores was a questionable choice in the first place, results under him have been crap considering where we'd got to previously, I can't quite believe you think he should keep his job and throw out the best player we have. Moores backs, cosies up to and excuses losers. England are a losing test nation with him in charge. The ECB have a lot of blame to take here for me

Holiday is fine. Conducting the nations cricket affairs from SA in the open is not done.

I doubt anyone has any issues in Pieterson trying to make improvement to the team. The problem with him was it's my way or no way. He needs to understand it's not neccessary he is right in his vision for the future. It's a team game.

 

[sammsky1]

At the time he was the perfect choice, but yes it was rushed he was appointed the day after Fletcher left. He had county success for sussex, and was involved in the England academy set up before, and after years of having a foreign coach the ECB were only ever going to appoint a English coach. However, and like Macca, he is a better coach than he is manager. His one handed slip practice still amazes me. But like McClaren he seems to be punching to far above his weight.

Tom Moody would be great in my opinion.

an old friendgirl from school of mine once snogged Tom Moody when Australia were touring England in 1990!

 

[sammsky1]

Kevin Pietersen is on holiday in South Africa and started issuing ultimatums to the board. That's bad form from a relative novice. He was always too much of a gob****e to be appointed captain. I again re-iterate, I hope they never play him again, even if he is the second coming.

I hope the coach is not forced to resign or sacked due to Pieterson, just so they can play him in future matches. That would plain wrong from the ECB.

Bro, I'm sensing that we both share al ove as intense for cricket as we do United?

Help me understand this one .... why have both had to quit? What have been the problems? I've been out of the country for a few months and so out of the loop.

This just looks biazzare.... heard that KP had issues with Moores, so Moores get the sack and KP stays right? Why have both gone? Anyway, the dressing room is going to be full of conflict now! I would have begged Vaughan to make a come back a la Imran Khan used to do for Pakistan!

 

[Sultan]

Bro, I'm sensing that we both share al ove as intense for cricket as we do United?

Help me understand this one .... why have both had to quit? What have been the problems? I've been out of the country for a few months and so out of the loop.

This just looks biazzare.... heard that KP had issues with Moores, so Moores get the sack and KP stays right? Why have both gone? Anyway, the dressing room is going to be full of conflict now! I would have begged Vaughan to make a come back a la Imran Khan used to do for Pakistan!

Basically this is a very Pakistan-esque scenario.

KP went public in his column in the News of the world, and gave ECB an ultimatum to get rid of Moores. All credit to the ECB they called his bluff, displayed courage and sacked him as skipper.

To me it's simple. The coaches/selectors pick the team and organise training, and the captain is in charge on the field. Anyway KP's attitude indicates he wouldn't have been successful as skipper.

 

[Spoony]

Kevin Pietersen is on holiday in South Africa and started issuing ultimatums to the board. That's bad form from a relative novice. He was always too much of a gob****e to be appointed captain. I again re-iterate, I hope they never play him again, even if he is the second coming.

I hope the coach is not forced to resign or sacked due to Pieterson, just so they can play him in future matches. That would plain wrong from the ECB.

He's a cnut. Never captaincy material.

 

[oleonenumber20]

I agree with that to some extent. It isn't always the best solution though to have your star player as the captain; it didn't work with Freddie during the last Ashes series and it didn't work that well with Tendulkar or Lara in the past. The fact is that KP is one of only a small handful of players guaranteed to get on the team sheet in both the long and short forms of the game. The problem is an indictement of the lack of depth and quality that England are suffering from at the moment.

It's not ideal to have separate captains, but at the moment, Strauss is the only viable option for the Test team; not only does he know the job but he actually performed pretty well when he skippered the side to a series victory over Pakistan a few years ago. As for the one-day team: can we really go back to Collingwood? - Strauss' ODI record is too mediocre to bring him back into the side - the only other viable option out of the current crop is Flintoff.

Flintoff wont be captain of the short game, if you offer him the one day and T20 then why not test as well? Colly wont take it again, Strauss isn't in the team. Bell has some experience but is so out of form its not true, Cook may be future captain material but isn't in the one day squad. Shah might be a good bet, hes prob the best performer in that squad. Someone mentioned Prior might be in with a shout! Or Rob key might be drafted in just to captain. I personal think that Dimi Mascarenhas would do a good job but he cant get a game.

 

[vijay]

Pieterson is trying too much, apparenty to wrest control from ECB.

He's no Imran or Gower.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Bro, I'm sensing that we both share al ove as intense for cricket as we do United?

Help me understand this one .... why have both had to quit? What have been the problems? I've been out of the country for a few months and so out of the loop.

This just looks biazzare.... heard that KP had issues with Moores, so Moores get the sack and KP stays right? Why have both gone? Anyway, the dressing room is going to be full of conflict now! I would have begged Vaughan to make a come back a la Imran Khan used to do for Pakistan!

feck it, let's ask Vaughan to come back now for his captaincy alone. Sure his batting hasn't been up to scratch for a while now but at least we had a coordinated and peaceful dressing room when he was around. With Australia looking the weakest they have done for a long while, let's bring back Vaughany to win us the Ashes.

 

[mehro]

I must say I'm surprised with the reaction of English fans regarding Pieterson. Not the first time that a captain has tried to influence squad selection.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

I must say I'm surprised with the reaction of English fans regarding Pieterson. Not the first time that a captain has tried to influence squad selection.

We are not simply talking about squad selection though are we [captains naturally have influence in such matters]? It went beyond that to Coach selection and then his judgement to use the media as a tool in his power struggle.

Reportedly rifts in the camp although they are porbably not quite as sever as some in the press are making out, time will tell.

KP overplayed his hand and position, paid the price.



To the thread in general i have this question, what do we do about the One Day team long term? Make room for Strauss somewhere in the order but then who is sacrificed? Split the captaincy and bring back Collingwood? Something else completely?

Listening to Strauss yesterday and Geoff Miller on the radio later in the evening, they seem to be still in a bit of a quandary over it. There'll be a meeting today to discuss the issue.

Did hear Owais Sha talk about the upheaval, wasn't exactly falling over himself to show optimism for Strauss' appointment. Is there a rift of some kind?

 

[surf]

Captain is more important than coach and Pietersen is also England's best player. The other countries must be loving this.

In relation to Strauss and one day matches, it wouldn't be the first time someone is played purely for their captaincy. Think Brearley in tests. He was an average bat, butterfingered slip, and didn't bowl, yet was quite a successful leader.

 

[Sultan]

I must say I'm surprised with the reaction of English fans regarding Pieterson. Not the first time that a captain has tried to influence squad selection.

That's all well and Good Mehro.

Pieterson gave an ultimatum to the ECB to choose between him or the coach in the open. They called his bluff!

 

[ZIDANE]

I ain't been following it but I never really liked KP and don't rate him as a top captain. Reading what Sultan wrote above where he gave an ultimatum in public is funny and he's got what he deserves. You don't want to start going down that indisciplined route.

I'd say the fresh start would be good news but no doubt there is a bit of unrest in the squad, which is never a good thing. Its not like that's going to go away either as no doubt KP will be in the team still - England still need his batting.

Pakistan-esque indeed. Now where is that KP effigy that we can burn.

 

[anver]

The England team is one made up of the same jokers. Isnt it time there is a revamping? Strauss captain. What next? The Aussies gave their youngsters a break, and see what they did yesterday. Warner, D. Hussey and the lot. There are quite a few youngsters in the county setup. Henderson of Middlesex is a good example of a T20 player. Why is he being overlooked? Pieterson may have a bloated ego, but he is captain material.