Modern Draft QF: Moby vs. Willhse456

Who will win this match

  • Total voters
    16
  • Poll closed .

Indnyc

Full Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
4,543
Moby -------------------------Vs. --------------------------Willhse456

Lyckrio.png
vs.

Team Moby

Formation
4-4-2 circa United 07-08
Man_Utd_vs_Chelsea_2008-05-21.svg

Theme
The team's first pick is Wayne Rooney and we have taken the opportunity to remodel it as the United team that played around him during his peak years circa 06-08. As someone with a career like Rooney's he had several peaks but we have gone with this one. This is him in his physical peak, the electric pace, lung busting runs, endless reserves of stamina, the hungry mad dog attitude and aggression, the sweet volleys and the ultimate team player who elevated the team to one of the greatest eras under Ferguson.

Devastating Tandem Up Front
During this period he made quality attacking partnerships with forwards such as Saha and Tevez. In this team, he has a cracking young talent who is one of the best forwards in the world already in Kylian Mbappé. Both the forwards are all round players, who can fluidly interchange. Both can pick up the ball from deep and play the other one in. Both are deadly in front of goal. Both are adept out wide (Rooney left, Mbappe right) to stretch the defense for the other. Both absolutely lightning quick with tremendous acceleration, agility, control and dribbling at pace. Mbappe will be playing further forward but there are no rules here.

Fearless Flying Wingers
A classic United team needs classic United wings. In this team, we have Di Maria assuming the left wing, the full of bag of tricks, dribbling wizard from Argentina who also brings insane workrate and quality on both ends of the pitch and will be happy in servicing the attack. On the right wing is Riyad Mahrez, the star player for The Foxes during their historic win, with no shortage of pace, dribbling and crossing with a quality strike from distance. Di Maria's hybrid LM-LCM ability mirrors the kind of double shift Giggs provided during the mid 00s playing as a wide midfielder and tucking into midfield as a creative presence with the other winger joining the attack. With Asamoah on the outside, this would be getting Di Maria's best full potential in the setup, one which helped him guide Madrid to the Champions League win.

Complete Box Office Midfield
As with our teams during the previous decade, the midfield not only held the fort but also provided the creative engine, endless pings down the flanks, delicate lobs through the middle and an utmost control of the middle. For this we have the Simeone Engine of Koke and Saul Niguez. Koke being the controller and playmaker through the middle dictating play and fuelling the attack while Niguez the more conservative workhorse covering for his mate. Two workoholics as any Simeone player would be, adding in Rooney's tremendous stamina and desire to track back, this midfield will not let anything through it.

Tireless Overlapping Fullbacks
Again, a bog standard feature for a successful Fergie team, here we have Zabaleta and Asamoah marauding from the back. Two quality defenders, Zabaleta has been a key fixture in City's dominance of the PL over the last decade while Asamoah was again an integral cog of the successful Juventus team. Both of them will overlap whichever side the ball is and happily support the two wingers, causing constant 2v1s and dragging defenders all over the place.

World Class Defenders
To complete the team, the two CBs are Raphael Varane and Virgil Van Dijk. Two of the best defenders in the world, Varane has been the lynchpin for the Madrid dynasty winning serial champions league and was possibly the best player for France when they won the World Cup earlier this year. An absolute complete defender who is in full control of his opponent. Alongside him is the Liverpool beast in Van Dijk, a tremendous leader similar to Ramos who plays next to Varane as well as a fantastic defender who transformed their entire defense from incredibly shaky to one of the best in the world. Together they form an incredible pair stylistically favourable against most strikers out there.

Finally, the Mexican legend Ochoa stands in goal, with almost 100 caps to his name a vastly experienced leader and shot stopper. Not to mention, both have great pace to push up and cover any distances.

Key Points
  • Quality in Attack - Centred around one of the best players in the Pool with the largest body of work and goalscoring records to his name, partnered with "Luis Ronaldo mk II" and a pair of flying wingers.
  • Quality Out Wide - Two hungry and uber-talented wingers looking to create chances, while helping their fullbacks in defense and two rocksolid fullbacks well capable of overloading the attack.
  • Quality Through the Middle - Two complete midfielders who have no weaknesses in either phase and would be putting in incredible shifts, along with Rooney himself and provide the creative platform for the front 4 to shine.
  • Quality At The Back - Two of the best defenders in the world, providing a massive wall at the back, aerial ability, anticipation, pace, physicality and ability on the ball. Both well versed in pushing the defense up as well.
  • Pace on the Counter - As we often did, this team would be deadly on the counter, with Rooney and Mbappe leaving defenders dead and causing mayhem running into space, with both Di Maria and Mahrez well versed to counter attacks as are the Atletico duo.
  • Fluidity - Rooney can go up front, drop deep, drop left/right. Mbappe can go up front, drop left/right. Di Maria can drop into midfield, go out wide, cut inside. Mahrez can go outside, cut through the middle. There is NO way anyone will ever get marked, and there will be constant movement around the box with multiple players capable of scoring and creating.
Team Willhse456

In the heart of my defence is Vincent Kompany. Kompany was arguably the best centre back in the world from the period 2011-2015. I hope that he is not judged harshly due to the fact that he plays for a rival. He had everything in his prime, aggressive in the tackle, good reading of the game, as well as decent ball playing ability.



Partnering him is Neven Subotic. Whilst Hummels was the dominant defender in the Dortmund set-up, Subotic was also crucial, and I think he'd be a great partner for Kompany in this team. Once again, he was great at covering for Hummels and producing last minute clearances and tackles, as well as having great vision to pick out a pass. Whilst he wasn't blessed with pace, I think Kompany would be able to cover for him suitably.

The fullbacks are Marcel Schmelzer and Thomas Meunier. Both are fairly balanced full backs, both better at defending than going forward, however will be given license to go forward when the opportunity arises.

Anchoring the midfield will be Nemanja Matic. In his prime, a brilliant defensive midfielder, and in my opinion one of the best in this pool. He was brilliant at both passing and breaking up play. He reads the game perfectly, and this formation is perfect for him, operating besides a deep lying playmaker, which brought out the best from him at Chelsea. This game away at City showcases his abilities perfectly:



Then we come to the famous Thiago Alcantara. Oh, what could have been. Operating as a deep lying playmaker, and linking the play between defence and attack. He is perfect for circling possession around the midfield, one of the best in the game at this moment. I think he would form a perfect partnership with Matic, which would echo the Premier League winning partnership between Matic and Fabregas, but I think Thiago would be better at Fabregas' role, as he has more energy and can run with higher levels of intensity.

Mesut Ozil tops off the midfield, and is arguably the best centre attacking midfielder in this pool. He was frightening for Real Madrid, and has notched up an insane amount of assists with his deadly through balls. He was amazing during Real Madrid's record breaking season, feeding Ronaldo with plenty of chances. Here he has the perfect base behind him to wreak havoc, as he is given the freedom to roam the pitch. Bale gives him the perfect outlet, especially on the counter attack.



In the reinforcement round I greatly improved my wingers. On the right is Gareth Bale, who was phenomenal in his last season at Spurs and starting at Madrid. Blessed with frightening pace, great dribbling ability and a brilliant shot on him, he would terrorise any left back put in front of him. On the left is Dries Mertens, who has showcased very impressive finishing ability during his time at Napoli, and will be playing as an inside forward.

The best thing about this attack is Luis Suarez, who has demonstrated a very good ability at linking play between goalscoring wingers, he was a hugely important cog in the Messi/Suarez/Neymar trio that destroyed defences. Suarez and Bale working in tandem would be devastating, and one of the best attacks in this draft.
 
Good luck @Moby

Initial observations:

  • Koke doesn't really fit in this 442 system. Just because he's played under Simeone it doesn't mean he's suddenly a great box to box midfielder, which is his role in this system. He usually plays as the left midfielder for Atletico or further forward for Spain as he hasn't got the defensive ability to play in that role.
  • There's no real cover for Ozil, and I think he'd have a great time drifting in between the midfield and defence, the formation he's playing against suits him perfectly.
  • Not sure about Di Maria playing on the left hand side, usually plays on the right and cuts in on his left foot into more central areas. Feel that he would be uncomfortable in that position
  • Bale against Asamoah is a bit of a mismatch, and could see him having a lot of joy throughout the match.
 
Very close game, have voted for willhse for now.

This reminds me of the match of willhse vs Team Beam, where Suarez faced off great CBs and he had superiority in midfield. Ozil was in a great place to influence the game that time and I think he can be a big factor again here.

I was a bit underwhelmed by the Mertens reinforcement, but he makes great sense here. Now Ozil has 3 goalscorers to feed instead of just one and all three have goalscoring seasons with more than 25 goals in all comps.

Moby's attack is still very good and I expect them to score quite a few. I see him a bit lost in midfield and don't know if the 4 attackers can get that much service. Maybe dropping Di Maria to strengthen the midfield would have been good, an attack of Mbappe-Rooney-Mahrez would have been great as well.

I don't really know how to rate Ochoa, based on just watching him at the world cup. I would say competent with the occasional great performance in between, if that makes sense? I never watched Ajaccio or Granada, for now I think Ter Stegen is the better keeper. His peak at Barca is really high, he just lacks the national team exploits because stupid Low prefers a declined Neuer:mad: That's another story:(
 
Close. Both teams look great on the counter and in that sense Ozil could find much more space like he did in Madrid set up which is my favorite version of him.

Still, and at first looking, Moby's backline seems better equiped to deal with it. Will vote after more discussion.
 
Would be nice if the people voting for Moby could explain why.

I think he's tugged on the heartstrings a bit comparing his side to 07/08 United, but I don't really see the similarities if I'm honest, apart from Rooney, Mbappe and van Dijk as a budget Rio. We also have to remember that in big games and most European games we played a 433/451, as the midfield would get overrun. Moby doesn't have that option here.
 
I love Moby’s team except Koke in midfield.. I could understand that in the first round but now i feel he is better suited in the ADM role with a more dedicated midfielder in his place.

I don’t think him in central midfield is utilizing his best qualities. Would love to hear the neutrals view on this

For Will, I don’t like the Mertens upgrade as much but can see the logic. Voted Will for now but will follow discussions and may change if Moby can sell his midfield two well
 
willhse456 said:
Would be nice if the people voting for Moby could explain why.

I think he's tugged on the heartstrings a bit comparing his side to 07/08 United, but I don't really see the similarities if I'm honest, apart from Rooney, Mbappe and van Dijk as a budget Rio. We also have to remember that in big games and most European games we played a 433/451, as the midfield would get overrun. Moby doesn't have that option here.
Click to expand...

Rate his defence higher. Can see them still having problems with Ozil finding space between the lines and Bale cutting in, but tbf you will have tough time on your own. Also can't remember a forward who gave more trouble to Kompany than Rooney during his time in EPL.

As @Indnyc not fully convinced with Koke - Saul combo in the middle and a holding midfielder alongside either of them would be better in these stages imo, but as both Thiago and Matic like to stay behind don't think it will be such an issue.
 
How is that breathtaking front two being stopped here? ​

We have prime, young, hungry and physically explosive Wayne Rooney partnered with the most explosive forward seen since Luis Ronaldo graced the stage at a similar age taking the world by the storm.

If Mbappe's 4 goal rush wasn't enough, watch him come on around 60 minutes vs Iceland during the Intl break and turning the game around. In a squad like France where you can't look past two players without spotting tremendous talent, you have the team looking at this teenager for inspiration. And that's the fact, he's a teenager and he's already inspirational in what he brings to the pitch. When a team is trailing 0-2, you see them giving him the ball at every opportunity and expecting him to get the job done. It's a massive mark of the man's talent. Not surprising he orchestrated the first goal and smashed the penalty for the 2nd earning them a point from that position. That's just last week!

He's a phenomenal talent right now and close to unstoppable you will get in this pool. Knocked Messi and co. out of the World Cup while showcasing his talent at the biggest stage, and is even being touted as an outside chance for the Ballon D'or and will no doubt finish very well either ways.

With him and Rooney who wouldn't let you breathe for a second, I can't see them being stopped here especially with the plethora of creativity that surrounds them here. The two of them will be a tad too much to handle for Subatic and Kompany. The former can get turned with Mbappe's unreal acceleration and blistering pace if caught up field, while Rooney has given Kompany tough times before and the one here will foil the young frenchman beautifully while tearing up the pitch in tandem.

 
Last edited:
The myth of the '2 man midfield'​

This pet peeve of mine has been around for years, but despite this being a setup for us for years some still come and question on how it works. As the United team that inspires this team, we have a combo of two action packed midfielders who aren't just drilled in being workhorses and never letting an inch on the field as opposed to other playmakers by being in a Cholo team, but are also absolutely complete midfielders. In Koke, I have an ideal playmaker who can dictate the tempo of the game from the middle, while providing tremendous legs alongside his teammate in Saul.

Saul, on the other hand, is not only versed in playing in a similar setup, but has been deployed as the defensive presence in midfield already by his manager and has done plenty well. In this setup, I don't need a destroyer kind of midfielder as having two all action dynamos suits the theme as well as the requirement a lot better. However, whenever he has played as a more defensive minded midfielder, he has done excellently.



And vitally, the two of them have two other workhorses in Di Maria and Wayne Rooney himself! Rooney cannot be ignored here, as off the ball he was a force of nature and did his absolute best in contributing to the midfield battle. Unlike Ozil, who is hardly ever going to make a telling contribution off the ball from there, Rooney and Di Maria actually will help outnumbering that opposition midfield at times as I don't see much there that will match the energy and legs that I have in there.

Even more, both van Dijk and Varane can easily push forward and cut down any spaces that Ozil might find himself in. We aren't afraid of compressing the space between midfield and defense, with the kind of pace we have in our backline and the players are comfortable in stepping out.
 
Talking about the backlines, man to man by backline is superior and a massive platform for this team. Adding Varane, someone who has proven himself both in the WC and CL has already achieved far more than Kompany ever did both domestically and nationally, and has rightly been considered as wonderkid from a young age. Such a composed presence at the back is going to be a huge advantage.

Alongside him is Van Dijk, he provides great leadership as does Ramos next to Varane. He can organise the backline, provide the physicality and the crunching tackles when needed. The two of them form a watertight backline which is very difficult to better in this pool.

Both up front and at the back, I have phenomenal combinations and I can see both of them winning their respective battles over 90 minutes.
 
Moby said:
The myth of the '2 man midfield'​

This pet peeve of mine has been around for years, but despite this being a setup for us for years some still come and question on how it works. As the United team that inspires this team, we have a combo of two action packed midfielders who aren't just drilled in being workhorses and never letting an inch on the field as opposed to other playmakers by being in a Cholo team, but are also absolutely complete midfielders. In Koke, I have an ideal playmaker who can dictate the tempo of the game from the middle, while providing tremendous legs alongside his teammate in Saul.

Saul, on the other hand, is not only versed in playing in a similar setup, but has been deployed as the defensive presence in midfield already by his manager and has done plenty well. In this setup, I don't need a destroyer kind of midfielder as having two all action dynamos suits the theme as well as the requirement a lot better. However, whenever he has played as a more defensive minded midfielder, he has done excellently.
Click to expand...
Take your points about work rate, but to be fair Atletico's midfield unit is very different to your set-up here. Simeone's 4-man midfield is a boxy, tilted diamond - yours is a flat four.
 
Gio said:
Take your points about work rate, but to be fair Atletico's midfield unit is very different to your set-up here. Simeone's 4-man midfield is a boxy, tilted diamond - yours is a flat four.
Click to expand...
By similar I meant, he is supported by players with high work rates in midfield, players exceptional on the counter, and a unit that can be expected to function as cohesively as they do. Rooney at his peak will be an absolute dream for a team like that, for example. Saul has 3 midfielders, like he does at Atletico, off the ball, as Rooney's going to cover massive grounds and be a ball winner wherever he is stationed. I'd expect Saul to shield the defense when we are defending, Di Maria and Koke to be the shuttlers and Rooney being the one preventing possession recycling, hounding the likes of Thiago and not allowing him to get into a rhythm as well as exploding forward with Mbappe ahead of him as soon as they win the ball.

It's a far cry from what Ozil would provide in that battle. There's a reason why he was played in the front 3 at Madrid in big games. He cannot be relied to get stuck in there and that can be a massive handicap, especially when you are up against a pack of dogs sniffing blood.
 
Moby said:
It's a far cry from what Ozil would provide in that battle. There's a reason why he was played in the front 3 at Madrid in big games. He cannot be relied to get stuck in there and that can be a massive handicap, especially when you are up against a pack of dogs sniffing blood.
Click to expand...
Equally though the three in front of Ozil are well versed in graft when it's required.
 
Gio said:
Equally though the three in front of Ozil are well versed in graft when it's required.
Click to expand...
I'd like to hear more on how that works in taking away the numbers and energy dominance away from my team at the heart of the pitch, though. Asamoah is getting a sharp stick for some reason despite being a consistent fixture for Juve, and moreover another absolutely tireless fullback who was a midfielder earlier in his career. Between him and Di Maria, there's a fair amount of cutting down space, pace in tracking back and one being able to cover for the other, so at least in energy stake's there's another body in there willing to put them where they are required.

Ozil is also very vital given the role he has in the team in terms of creating chances for them, and there's have been a fair few games that have passed him by at times when the midfield opposition shifted the gears up in terms of closing down, winning the second balls and winning the 50-50 duels. I don't want to be harsh on him, but if the game goes into the direction of a high amount of possession turnovers, at a high tempo with pacey counters back and forth, one of the three midfielders not being able to keep up will hurt them. I'd welcome Suarez having to drop deeper than usual to re-balance the bite, as it's not going to help him find himself in those pockets around and in the box where he is at his best.
 
Shifting the game out wide​

The modern game has shifted from having the standard winger putting in crosses and the fullback making occasional overlaps to create space while being a defender foremost to having fullbacks turn into wingbacks, wingers being inverted and capable of shooting as well as crossing and forwards coming out wide dragging defenders to create space. This team works on those modern ethics on both sides.

Left: Asamoah, Di Maria, Rooney.
As described earlier, Di Maria being the hybrid left central/attacking midfielder not only helps the midfield but also coordinates perfectly with the wingback behind him and the forward ahead of him. Rooney is well known for being able to shift leftwards into the channel.

Right: Zabaleta, Mahrez, Mbappe.
Zabaleta has been a marauding man for City for years, has no shortage of stamina as well as quality crossing and cut backs. Mahrez is absolutely at home at going wide and crossing, as well as cutting inside and taking his trademark shot curling into the corner. Mbappe has played as a right forward numerous times, and has the experience in loading that area of the pitch.

Overloading wide areas is a critical function in the modern game. With those trios, we can have constant interplays on one side of the pitch while the other tucks more narrwo and makes central runs awaiting crosses/through balls/cut backs. Man City are a prime operator of this mode in the current game and with the quality and experience of my players being natural in multiple areas, we will definitely use this mode of attack when need be to stretch the defense and target Schmelzer and Meunier.

Especially the front two, both of whom are quality goalscorers and just as equally devastating in penetrating the wide channels creating chances for others, it will be a further element to that combo and would have a bigger horizontal working area than usual front twos in terms of providing the 1-2 punch.
 
I think Kompany is being very underrated here. In his prime he was arguably the best in the world, and had everything you want from a centre back. Don't think van Dijk is anywhere near that level yet. Rooney might have a decent record vs Kompany, but Suarez has a great record vs Varane too.

I don't think there is balance in Moby's midfield. For me it's too offensive, and would be very prone to being caught on the counter attack. Whilst the defence is quick, Suarez and Bale have proven to be deadly on the counter.

I also find the myth about Ozil going missing slightly tiresome now. He has consistently topped lists for most chances created and assists made for years.

Will Mbappe really be able to lead the line? Has he ever done that before? We have to be cautious and rate him at his current ability rather than looking at potential because that is irrelevant.
 
willhse456 said:
Will Mbappe really be able to lead the line? Has he ever done that before? We have to be cautious and rate him at his current ability rather than looking at potential because that is irrelevant.
Click to expand...
Probably my favourite reference I have in the team I have built to our team from 06-08. We rarely ever played with a designated striker or #9 back then and had immense fluidity and an air of unpredictability on how will create and who will score.

In 07-08, our most frequent team had Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez. Neither are traditional strikers and all of them have played with #9s alongside or ahead of them in their careers. If Fergie had drawn that team on a fantasy draft site he'd have probably heard similar comments, but it obviously makes no sense when you have players like these. It's exactly how I want them to play. It is absolutely impossible to represent that era's Rooney or the current Mbappe by one static position on the pitch, if you want to enable them at their very best. We even played 4-6-0 at times where all of our forwards started deep and made interchanging runs in attack. I've probably watched the 07-08 season review a few hundred times to know just how fluid of a unit that was especially on fast breaks.

I shared the video of some of the best goals Mbappe has scored and they have come from all over the pitch. He has been playing at the shoulder of the last defender with Neymar as the creator playing him behind, or has cut inside centrally and positioned at 18-20 yards dead centre taking outrageous shots and scoring. He is right footed, his scoring boots come on the more central he gets, though he has an uncanny knack of scoring from the right foot from very tight angles from the right channels as well.

It's a brilliant set up from the mercurial talent. The most frightening talent since the big two have showed up. Direct comparisons to R9, both in playing style and ruthless effectiveness at the biggest stage. If he can put in the effort and continue this growth, he will be unstoppable, and already has a World Cup to his name being a key performer among others. Last but not the least, he's a good kid and knows when to give it back.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/16/kyl...-500000-in-world-cup-winnings-to-charity.html
 
Leading the line centrally, as clear as it can get. Just one example and there's no doubt why would he ever have an issue doing that. I'd welcome that scenario where the defense has left space behind them and Mbappe is the furthest man forward.

giphy.gif


That's just outrageous skill, speed and acceleration man. It's hard to live with it. Drop deep and you give him enough space to fire bullets from 15-20 yards. Push up and get roasted due to that electric pace and skill.

 
Moby said:
Good game. @willhse456
Click to expand...

Yes, well played! Still think that Mbappe is being slightly overrated, especially in comparison to proven stars such as Suarez and Bale. Will be interesting to see what you do in your reinforcement round.

Apologies for not posting much yesterday evening, felt the tide turning a bit and didn't think I'd be able to bring it back. Then this morning my football team got battered 9-0 so wasn't in the mood for putting arguments across :lol:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.