Microsoft Knew Of Disc-Scratching Issue, Says Employee

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A document unsealed in a lawsuit last week suggests that Microsoft employees knew before putting the Xbox 360 on the market in November 2005 that the video game console could damage game discs.

Several ongoing lawsuits charge that the Xbox 360 is defectively designed because tilting or swiveling the video game console can scratch game discs playing inside.

Plaintiffs in a July 2007 case filed in U.S. District Court in Seattle are seeking class-action status on behalf of all those who purchased Xbox 360s.

Most of the declarations in the court case are sealed, but a newly unsealed motion (read it here) seeking class status quotes from the sealed declarations of Microsoft employees.

The motion says that Microsoft knew that when the Xbox 360 was reoriented with a disc playing inside, the disc could be damaged.

It quotes Hiroo Umeno, a Microsoft program manager, who said in a declaration, "This is ... information that we as a team, optical disc drive team, knew about. When we first discovered the problem in September or October (2005), when we got a first report of disc movement, we knew this is what's causing the problem."

After the Xbox 360 launch, according to the motion, Microsoft sent a team of engineers to stores across the country "to investigate complaints that the Xbox 360 was routinely scratching discs during demonstrations."

Microsoft determined that if the console was tilted, discs inside became "unchucked" and collided with the drive's optical pickup unit, leading to deep circular gouges on the discs.

Because of the complaints, Microsoft considered three possibilities to fix the problem, but rejected all of them.

One solution would have increased the magnetic field of the disc holder, but it was dismissed because it could have interfered with the disc opening and closing mechanism. Another solution -- slowing the speed at which the disc was rotated -- was rejected because it could have increased the time required for a game to load. A third solution, installing small bumpers, was too expensive. It would have cost between $35 million and $75 million.

Eventually, Microsoft did institute an Xbox 360 disc replacement program that sends out new discs to customers if their discs are damaged for any reason. The program only applies to Microsoft titles and costs $20 per disc.

A warning was also included in the product manual, telling customers to "remove discs before moving the console or tilting it between the horizontal and vertical positions."

But, according to the motion, Microsoft employees deemed in an internal e-mail that the warning was insufficient.

A warning label was also affixed to the Xbox 360's disc drive.

More than 55,000 customers have complained about broken discs as of April 30, according to a Microsoft employee quoted in the motion.

Plaintiffs in the case also include a statement from an engineering consultant who says that other electronics makers, including Sony and Nintendo, almost always incorporate the possibility that a console could be moved while a disc is rotating inside in the designs of their products. Read his declaration here.

A Microsoft spokeswoman said Friday the company would not comment on pending litigation.

The Xbox 360 has been hampered by hardware glitches. In July 2007, Microsoft took a $1 billion pretax charge to extend the Xbox 360 warranty to three years from the purchase date for cases where hardware failures are accompanied by a red flashing in the "ring of light" around the console's power button.

At VentureBeat, Dean Takahashi has detailed how Microsoft prior to the launch of the Xbox 360 knew that the console could fail but went ahead with the release anyway so that it could get its console quickly to market.

Link

So they knew about it and decided to just attach a label on the disc drive, assuming that to be sufficient? What a load of bollocks, if it was any other company they wouldn't be allowed to do this but because it is Microsoft who are backed by tens of billions of dollars they can afford to do this and get away with it.
 
I once kicked my xbox over by accident when playing flatout and now it crashes my xbox every time I put the disc in. In fairness though the 360 did fall about 4foot. It didn't like that, I can tell you.

Bizarrely though there are no out of the ordinary scratches on the flaout disc
 
I once kicked my xbox over by accident when playing flatout and now it crashes my xbox every time I put the disc in. In fairness though the 360 did fall about 4foot. It didn't like that, I can tell you.

Bizarrely though there are no out of the ordinary scratches on the flaout disc

I once moved my 360 from my bedroom to the living room with my 2 hour old Pro Evo 2006 disc inside, when I had it all set up downstairs the game wasn't loading, and across the disc was one hell of a big-scratch. Yet MS claim it won't sratch the disc so long as it isn't spinning at the time.

Full of shit, as per.
 
I once moved my 360 from my bedroom to the living room with my 2 hour old Pro Evo 2006 disc inside, when I had it all set up downstairs the game wasn't loading, and across the disc was one hell of a big-scratch. Yet MS claim it won't sratch the disc so long as it isn't spinning at the time.

Full of shit, as per.


Well that was your mistake right there, never should have tried moving it. Or touching it.
 
Did the same with my Pro Evo 6 straight after I bought it as well. Was not pleased.

Why did Microsoft release such a faulty piece of machinery? (I'm assuming they were aware of the RROD before release as well?)
 
To be fair, whilst this is ridiculous, if it does say "DO NOT MOVE WHILST A DISC IS PLAYING" on the front, and you still move it, then you kind of have it coming.
 
Why did Microsoft release such a fawlty piece of machinery? (I'm assuming they were aware of the RROD before release as well?)

Of course they knew about it, and put simply, they released it with the defects it had so to beat Sony and Nintendo to market and so they would be the only 'Next-Gen' console in the market for Christmas 2005.

Taken from here. Long read, but definitely worth it.

Microsoft knew it had flawed machines, but it did not delay its launch because it believed the quality problems would subside over time. With each new machine, the company figured it would ride the “learning curve,” or continuously improve its production. Even though Microsoft’s leaders knew their quality wasn’t top notch, they did not ensure that resources were in place to handle returns and quickly debug bad consoles. There were plenty of warning signs, but the company chose to ignore them. The different parts of the business weren’t aligned.

It reminds me of the German war machine just before World War I, as chronicled by Barbara Tuchman in the classic history book, “The Guns of August.” The German generals were intent on keeping their trains on time; but the leaders overlooked their chances for stopping the war altogether. The Schlieffen plan called for them to strike first. Once the Russians and French mobilized, the Germans had to move into action. They marched off blindly into tragedy.

Likewise, Microsoft’s strategy depended on beating its rivals to market. It couldn’t afford to stop and delay the launch in order to solve its quality problems, or so upper management believed. What Microsoft’s leaders didn’t realize was that getting to market first with a flawed machine would only win them a battle; and it risked the loss of the war.

“They got enamored with the idea of the Microsoft army rolling everything out at the same time,” said one knowledgeable source who asked not to be identified.
 
To be fair, whilst this is ridiculous, if it does say "DO NOT MOVE WHILST A DISC IS PLAYING" on the front, and you still move it, then you kind of have it coming.

But what if, like me, you didn't move it whilst the game was playing? What if you had unplugged the console, and moved it then? According to Microsoft your disc should be fine, but, alas, it wasn't.
 
But what if, like me, you didn't move it whilst the game was playing? What if you had unplugged the console, and moved it then? According to Microsoft your disc should be fine, but, alas, it wasn't.

That is true, and they should address that issue (but they won't). But most of these disc-scratching episodes occur because people ignore the warning and move it anyway. Maybe it shouldn't be a problem -- but when they warn you about it then there's not really an excuse.
 
That is true, and they should address that issue (but they won't). But most of these disc-scratching episodes occur because people ignore the warning and move it anyway. Maybe it shouldn't be a problem -- but when they warn you about it then there's not really an excuse.

The scratching also takes place if you leave the disc in the console when you turn it off. I don't think there's a warning for that.
 
I've never had a disk scratched.


But what if, like me, you didn't move it whilst the game was playing? What if you had unplugged the console, and moved it then? According to Microsoft your disc should be fine, but, alas, it wasn't.

Interesting. And what do you reckon caused the scratch?
 
That is true, and they should address that issue (but they won't). But most of these disc-scratching episodes occur because people ignore the warning and move it anyway. Maybe it shouldn't be a problem -- but when they warn you about it then there's not really an excuse.

I can't see that new units would still do this, and remember, it's not Microsoft that makes DVD drives - they are outsourced. Where the blame lies with Microsoft here is the fact that they probably specified that the drive was as cheap as possible to whatever contractors were bidding for the supply contract at the time. Movable optical drives are nothing new going back to the Sony Discman and are now all over the show, in cars, laptops, portable DVD players, etc. so it's not as if it was some new type of technology they needed to use. Constantly spinning the disc at x12 probably didn't help much however.
 
I've never had the scratching problem. I remember once after leaving the house to move my xbox from my house to my new flat, and bout 2 minutes down the road i remembered i'd left the disc in. I turned round just to take it out (as i know for a fact that it still scratches whether it's playing or not due to it happening to a mate)

I know it shouldn't be happening in the first place, but there's nothing anyone but Microsoft can do about it, so just make the effort to take the disc out before you move it surely?
 
There's a surprise.



Poor design.

Surely a disc tray is a disc tray is a disc tray. I'm relatively sure I could knock one up using some old milk cartoons and some sticky back plastic and it wouldn't randomly scratch discs. My 360 gets kicked around all over the place, I've lost count of the amount of times I have pulled it off the shelf it's on simply because I forgot I had the wire for my controller attached and I've never had any scratched discs. Well apart from the ones I have scratched myself by using them as coasters, among other things
 
CD's are fookin shite anyway, I'm pretty sure they develop scratches simply by being left under a light for too long or being exposed to fresh air for more than about 5minutes.
 
CD's are fookin shite anyway, I'm pretty sure they develop scratches simply by being left under a light for too long or being exposed to fresh air for more than about 5minutes.
Bring back the Mega drive cartridge, tough as week old shit and when it doesn't work you gave it a quick blow and you was back on sonic withing seconds no fanny arsing about.
 
i thought it was common knowledge with all consoles and cd players with disc trays that if you move it while its running it might scratch it