has retired. Nice one, Mark - thanks for playing the game right. You played for some cnuting teams, but I won't hold that against you.
Legend
Legend
Mark Messier
- Thread starter TheDevil'sOwn
- Start date
Bless This Mess
he was the Cantona of the Rangers.
he is a legend.
chants of '1940' will be heard from philly fans no more.
chants of '1940' will be heard from philly fans no more.
FLASHWOK said:
Bless This Mess
he was the Cantona of the Rangers.
Except Cantona was never a world class player. Messier is one of the 10 best in history, arguably top 5 (Barry Melrose has him #2 behind Gretzky, but I wouldn't put him above Howe and Orr).
MrMarcello said:
your kidding, right??bye Messier, one of the great leaders in hockey
who is he and whats this sport?
I follow a game thats being played on the astroturf and its called hockey. I havent heard about a player called Messier.
I follow a game thats being played on the astroturf and its called hockey. I havent heard about a player called Messier.
ellie brown said:
No. He was a class player in the English league, but not world class and often disappeared in Europe and for France.
vijay said:
It's Ice Hockey... Not Field Hockey.
vijay said:
hockey = ice hockey
field hockey = something entirely different which no one watches
The Mark Messier timelineBy Jeff Merron
ESPN.com
One of hockey's all-time greats called it quits Monday at age 44. Here is a quick recap of Mark Messier's career highlights:
Jan. 18, 1961: Born in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.
1965: Starts going to his father's minor league practices.
1972: Becomes stick boy for Spruce Grove Mets of the Alberta Junior Hockey League.
1976: Plays first game with Spruce Grove of the AJHL.
1978: At age 17, debuts with the Indianapolis Racers of the World Hockey Association, playing five games (another 17-year-old named Wayne Gretzky plays eight games with the Racers that season). Twenty-five years later, Messier will be the last active WHA player to play in the NHL.
1979: Plays 47 games for the Cincinnati Stingers of the WHA.
1979: Drafted in third round of NHL entry draft by the Edmonton Oilers, the 48th pick overall.
1979: Makes NHL debut with Oilers. In his rookie season, scores 12 goals and adds 21 assists for 33 points. The Oilers, starring Gretzky, finish 28-39-13, one of the worst records in the NHL that season.
1981-82: Named first-team NHL All-Star; finishes season with 50 goals for the first and only time in his career.
1982-83: Named first-team NHL All-Star. Finishes with 48 goals and 56 assists for a total of 106 points, the first of six seasons in which Messier tops the 100-point mark.
1983-84: The Oilers end the New York Islanders' four-year reign as Stanley Cup champs by beating the Islanders in five games. Messier scores 26 points in the playoffs and wins Conn Smythe Trophy as postseason MVP.
1988: Named captain of the Oilers after Wayne Gretzky is traded to the Los Angeles Kings.
1989-90: Leads Oilers to fifth Stanley Cup title in seven years with career-high 129 points and is named NHL MVP (Hart Trophy) and NHL most outstanding player (Lester B. Pearson Trophy, voted on by players).
Oct. 4, 1991: After 12 seasons with Edmonton, traded from the Oilers to the New York Rangers for Bernie Nichols, Steven Rice and Louie DeBrusk.
1991-92: In first year in New York, Messier is named MVP and most outstanding player.
Messier became a New York legend after leading the Rangers to the Stanley Cup in 1994.
1994: Prior to Game 6 of the Eastern Conference finals, with the Rangers trailing New Jersey 3 games to 2, Messier guarantees a victory. He scores three goals in the third period to force a seventh game. The Rangers go on to beat the Devils and then the Vancouver Canucks in the Stanley Cup Finals, as Messier scores the Game 7 Cup-winning goal. It's the Rangers first Stanley Cup in 54 years.
July 28, 1997: Messier, a free agent, signs with the Canucks.
Oct. 1998: Scores 600th career goal.
July 13, 2000: After three years with Canucks, Messier rejoins the Rangers and is immediately named team captain again.
2000-01: Messier finishes the season with 24 goals, his 17th NHL season with 20-plus tallies.
Nov. 2003: Reunites with former Oiler teammates Wayne Gretzky, Grant Fuhr and Paul Coffey to play an outdoors "Legends" game at Commonwealth Stadium in Edmonton.
Nov. 4, 2003: Scores two goals as the Rangers beat the Dallas Stars 3-0. With the first goal, he ties Gordie Howe for the No. 2 spot on the all-time scoring list. With the second, he takes sole possession with his 1,851st point.
Nov. 16, 2003: In a 2-2 tie against the Blackhawks, scores his 684th career goal, to pass Mario Lemieux and move into seventh on the all-time goals list. In the same game, he records career assist No. 1,170, moving up to No. 3 on the all-time list.
Jan. 4, 2004: Named Player of the Week for first time in seven seasons.
2004: Plays in 15th career NHL All-Star Game.
2003-04: Scores 18 goals and adds 25 assists. At end of 2004 season, his 25th in the NHL, he boasts totals of 1,756 games, 694 goals, and 1,193 assists (1,887 career points).
Sept. 12, 2004: Messier, age 44, announces his retirement. In addition to the regular-season accomplishments noted elsewhere, he's played on six Stanley Cup winners and ends his career second in all-time playoff points, goals and assists.
ESPN.com
One of hockey's all-time greats called it quits Monday at age 44. Here is a quick recap of Mark Messier's career highlights:
Jan. 18, 1961: Born in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.
1965: Starts going to his father's minor league practices.
1972: Becomes stick boy for Spruce Grove Mets of the Alberta Junior Hockey League.
1976: Plays first game with Spruce Grove of the AJHL.
1978: At age 17, debuts with the Indianapolis Racers of the World Hockey Association, playing five games (another 17-year-old named Wayne Gretzky plays eight games with the Racers that season). Twenty-five years later, Messier will be the last active WHA player to play in the NHL.
1979: Plays 47 games for the Cincinnati Stingers of the WHA.
1979: Drafted in third round of NHL entry draft by the Edmonton Oilers, the 48th pick overall.
1979: Makes NHL debut with Oilers. In his rookie season, scores 12 goals and adds 21 assists for 33 points. The Oilers, starring Gretzky, finish 28-39-13, one of the worst records in the NHL that season.
1981-82: Named first-team NHL All-Star; finishes season with 50 goals for the first and only time in his career.
1982-83: Named first-team NHL All-Star. Finishes with 48 goals and 56 assists for a total of 106 points, the first of six seasons in which Messier tops the 100-point mark.
1983-84: The Oilers end the New York Islanders' four-year reign as Stanley Cup champs by beating the Islanders in five games. Messier scores 26 points in the playoffs and wins Conn Smythe Trophy as postseason MVP.
1988: Named captain of the Oilers after Wayne Gretzky is traded to the Los Angeles Kings.
1989-90: Leads Oilers to fifth Stanley Cup title in seven years with career-high 129 points and is named NHL MVP (Hart Trophy) and NHL most outstanding player (Lester B. Pearson Trophy, voted on by players).
Oct. 4, 1991: After 12 seasons with Edmonton, traded from the Oilers to the New York Rangers for Bernie Nichols, Steven Rice and Louie DeBrusk.
1991-92: In first year in New York, Messier is named MVP and most outstanding player.
Messier became a New York legend after leading the Rangers to the Stanley Cup in 1994.
1994: Prior to Game 6 of the Eastern Conference finals, with the Rangers trailing New Jersey 3 games to 2, Messier guarantees a victory. He scores three goals in the third period to force a seventh game. The Rangers go on to beat the Devils and then the Vancouver Canucks in the Stanley Cup Finals, as Messier scores the Game 7 Cup-winning goal. It's the Rangers first Stanley Cup in 54 years.
July 28, 1997: Messier, a free agent, signs with the Canucks.
Oct. 1998: Scores 600th career goal.
July 13, 2000: After three years with Canucks, Messier rejoins the Rangers and is immediately named team captain again.
2000-01: Messier finishes the season with 24 goals, his 17th NHL season with 20-plus tallies.
Nov. 2003: Reunites with former Oiler teammates Wayne Gretzky, Grant Fuhr and Paul Coffey to play an outdoors "Legends" game at Commonwealth Stadium in Edmonton.
Nov. 4, 2003: Scores two goals as the Rangers beat the Dallas Stars 3-0. With the first goal, he ties Gordie Howe for the No. 2 spot on the all-time scoring list. With the second, he takes sole possession with his 1,851st point.
Nov. 16, 2003: In a 2-2 tie against the Blackhawks, scores his 684th career goal, to pass Mario Lemieux and move into seventh on the all-time goals list. In the same game, he records career assist No. 1,170, moving up to No. 3 on the all-time list.
Jan. 4, 2004: Named Player of the Week for first time in seven seasons.
2004: Plays in 15th career NHL All-Star Game.
2003-04: Scores 18 goals and adds 25 assists. At end of 2004 season, his 25th in the NHL, he boasts totals of 1,756 games, 694 goals, and 1,193 assists (1,887 career points).
Sept. 12, 2004: Messier, age 44, announces his retirement. In addition to the regular-season accomplishments noted elsewhere, he's played on six Stanley Cup winners and ends his career second in all-time playoff points, goals and assists.
what a legend. didnt realize he was so high up on the all-time scoring lists though, credit to him.
I saw the Moose play in 88, the day I fell in love with the Oilers. He was as much a vital cog in that team as Gretzky was. He leaves behind so many memories, I don't want this to be true. He's only 12 games away from being the most active player ever, over taking Howe.
Nice to see the Rangers already planning to raise his shirt to the gods of MSG, and nice to see it done against the Oilers. I wouldn't mind being in Edmonton mind when they raise his shirt there. No one has ever wore 11 since he left, and never will for that matter.
Thank you Mess, it's been a hell of a ride and one that no one who saw you will forget.
Nice to see the Rangers already planning to raise his shirt to the gods of MSG, and nice to see it done against the Oilers. I wouldn't mind being in Edmonton mind when they raise his shirt there. No one has ever wore 11 since he left, and never will for that matter.
Thank you Mess, it's been a hell of a ride and one that no one who saw you will forget.
Kristjan said:
MrMarcello said:
how many countries in the world did this guy messier play?
ellie brown said:
Why would Messier want to play in Russia or Sweden when the NHL of North America is 10x more competitive and by far the top league worldwide? That is equivalent to Henry leaving Arsenal to play in the Icelandic first division.
(BTW, Messier did play in the Canadian Junior leagues as a teen, which I suppose could be equivalent to playing in some 2nd rate European first/second division before moving up to a top club).
Stop clutching straws. Cantona was a magnificent player, who I cheered on while playing for United. But he wasn't anywhere near the world class product ala Baggio, Klinsman, Romario, Maldini, etc., who dominated every league, cup, and competition entered during the same era, and were exceptional for country. But he was the right player at the right time for United and was top class in the Premiership.
How did my Mess appreciation thread get turned into a King Eric slag fest?
If I had known, I wouldn't have bothered.
If I had known, I wouldn't have bothered.
MrMarcello said:
Read my post, I said how many countries did he PLAY? not how many he played for, I know full well he wouldn't have transferred to another country, but I find it difficult to believe that he could be classed as world class, unless you count the US as the world.
Cantona WAS a magnificent world class player who at his best ranks alongside any of the greats IMO...
ellie brown said:Read my post, I said how many countries did he PLAY? not how many he played for, I know full well he wouldn't have transferred to another country, but I find it difficult to believe that he could be classed as world class, unless you count the US as the world.
Cantona WAS a magnificent world class player who at his best ranks alongside any of the greats IMO...
What don't you think countries play each other at ice hockey then ???
The NHL was the best hockey league in the world, no other league has challenged it for years. For all you hockey nuts I only say was, as it clearly wasn't the best league last year was it.
Messier only had to play in the NHL, he didn't really appear in the WC or Olympic's. Most of the time though when he would have gained automatic selection he was taking part in play-off's or the NHL wasn't invited to the Olympics.
Moose played for 25 years in the toughest hockey league in the world. By the reasoning of some people in this thread, and I hate to bring soccer into it, but others have. SAF isn't a world class manager, as he's really only done it in England/Scotland. He should have gone and managed around Europe. Sorry, this is a stupid arguement.
It's been 17 years since I saw Messier play in the flesh, and I've yet to see anyone in the UK reach the standards he set then.
Messier only had to play in the NHL, he didn't really appear in the WC or Olympic's. Most of the time though when he would have gained automatic selection he was taking part in play-off's or the NHL wasn't invited to the Olympics.
Moose played for 25 years in the toughest hockey league in the world. By the reasoning of some people in this thread, and I hate to bring soccer into it, but others have. SAF isn't a world class manager, as he's really only done it in England/Scotland. He should have gone and managed around Europe. Sorry, this is a stupid arguement.
It's been 17 years since I saw Messier play in the flesh, and I've yet to see anyone in the UK reach the standards he set then.
ellie brown said:
no no Ellie, Messier is Canadian
ruuds left boot said:What don't you think countries play each other at ice hockey then ???
what? so hockey has an equal profile to football then does it?
Kristjan said:no no Ellie, Messier is Canadian
ok then, wherever he's from, I'm sure he was a wonderful player but I take exception to someone going on about how he's apparently in a different league to the likes of Cantona, not as far as I'm concerned, and I certainly don't remember hockey being watched and appreciated by as many people as football...I tend to think that the EPL was a world class tournament in a way that no ice hockey tournament could possibly be.
ellie brown said:
So his ability level is measured by the number of people who watch him ?
ellie brown said:what? so hockey has an equal profile to football then does it?
Sorry , just re-read my post three times and can't find the bit where I said that. Perhaps you can tell me where in my post I said that, just to help me out n all
ellie brown said:what? so hockey has an equal profile to football then does it?
In Sweden,Canada,Finland,Czech Republic,Slovakia and Russia hockey is as big as football maybe bigger. They play each other in the World Championship every year and every fourth year they play in the Olympics the biggest national hockey event. The worlds best players usually play in the US/Canada league NHL(could call it hockeys CL the best play against each other every week) where the big money is and the chance to win Stanley Cup the biggest club trophy in hockey. Messier played 25 seasons in the best league in the world the NHL, won 6 Stanley Cups and managed to get over 1700 points, one of the best players to ever played in NHL.
ruuds left boot said:So his ability level is measured by the number of people who watch him ?
not at all, I thought we were comparing a top athlete for a sport which is popular in maybe half a dozen countries compared to a top athlete who plays for a sport which is genuinely appreciated the world over, I'd like to know which one is better qualified to be recognised as world class?
TheDevil'sOwn said:
diddums
ellie brown said:
World class in their own sport ellie
ellie brown said:
So for example Jahangir Khan (excuse any mis spelling) wasn't world class, despite being no 1 in his sport for pretty much his entire career - and consdiered almost superhuman- because not many people watch or play squash around the world ?
Would that be correct ?
This is a shame, but I obviously need to make myself clearer. What I originally took exception to was the statement that Cantona was not a world class player because he primarily played for the EPL. That is patently ridiculous, if there is any tournament in the world which would be world class surely that would qualify possibly more than any other on the planet. The players are international and it is enjoyed and appreciated on every continent. This is as opposed to a player who reached the dizzy heights in tournaments that are popular in a handful of countries. I'm not disputing his ability or what he achieved or any other athlete in their chosen sport, there are obviously elite, (even superhuman ) althletes from every sport.
) althletes from every sport.Ellie, whilst trying to understand your comments, and it has taken some time. I have to join in the discussion against you. Hockey is popular in lot's of countries, it's played on every continent like football and is more important than soccer in some countries.
Messier could be compared to someone like Bobby Charlton, in that he's stayed playing at the top of his profession for years. Cantona on the other hand was a short career, which although it set the world on fire for a while, wasn't long enough to sustain in comparrison to the other two.
Without wanting to sound anti-Eric here, but he never really did anything in Europe or for France on the international stage. The arguement against him at that level is strongly against him. Had he done something on either the European or International stage then the term world class would be applied instantly. Messier may not have played in the Olympics or World championships. He did however play in two Canada cups, which at the time were regarded higher than the Olympics.
I saw both of Cantona and Messier at the peak of there powers and they were both a sight to behold, both took my breath away.
Messier could be compared to someone like Bobby Charlton, in that he's stayed playing at the top of his profession for years. Cantona on the other hand was a short career, which although it set the world on fire for a while, wasn't long enough to sustain in comparrison to the other two.
Without wanting to sound anti-Eric here, but he never really did anything in Europe or for France on the international stage. The arguement against him at that level is strongly against him. Had he done something on either the European or International stage then the term world class would be applied instantly. Messier may not have played in the Olympics or World championships. He did however play in two Canada cups, which at the time were regarded higher than the Olympics.
I saw both of Cantona and Messier at the peak of there powers and they were both a sight to behold, both took my breath away.
ellie brown said:This is a shame, but I obviously need to make myself clearer. What I originally took exception to was the statement that Cantona was not a world class player because he primarily played for the EPL. That is patently ridiculous, if there is any tournament in the world which would be world class surely that would qualify possibly more than any other on the planet. The players are international and it is enjoyed and appreciated on every continent. This is as opposed to a player who reached the dizzy heights in tournaments that are popular in a handful of countries. I'm not disputing his ability or what he achieved or any other athlete in their chosen sport, there are obviously elite, (even superhuman
First off, my post never said Cantona wasn't world class because he primarily played in England. My post was that Cantona often only performed at a top class level during domestic league and cup matches. But in Europe and for France, he often disappeared in matches. Most world class players play at a top level no matter the match or venue.
And secondly, I'm not slagging Cantona, who is a great player. Messier is considered one of the 5 best to ever play the sport he chose. Cantona is not.
Furthermore, it's ridiculous to compare athletes from different sports.