There is no justification for abuse if that's what you're referring to.
If you're talking about increased levels of criticism, then yes I think it is justified.
Particularly in Rashford's case, where he looks like he's not arsed to run half the time
10
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 24
- Goals
- 7
- Assists
- 3
- Yellow cards
- 3
There is no justification for abuse if that's what you're referring to.
If you're talking about increased levels of criticism, then yes I think it is justified.
Particularly in Rashford's case, where he looks like he's not arsed to run half the time
His effort has gone from 2/10 from last season to 4/10 at best this season, that’s certainly an improvement.
The peak Rashford has managed to make us look alright for a few months, I suppose that is all that matters regardless of the crap he has delivered the following seasons also from the previous regime.
It's not all that matters, no, which is why I haven't defended his performances.
That's not what this was about, though. People blaming him for ten Hag's sacking was the problem. I think his horrendous tactics were the bigger problem.
He's not that bad.
I don't particularly rate him that highly, I don't think he works hard enough, I don't think he's a particularly clever player either, still lacks a lot of in game intelligence, which at 26, he should have built up through experience. But he hasn't, he's still doing the same stupid runs and makes the same silly mistakes over and over. I can't say I've seen too much in his performances this season to say otherwise.
He's a player that you really don't know which version of him is going to show up and that's not a trait you can have in your supposed main players at a top club. All in all, he's a good player, he's just not good enough to be starting every week for Man Utd, especially not if the club has serious ambitions about getting back to the top of English football.
You say you haven’t defended him, but your sentence always finished with ‘but’ with excuses of why his form has dipped or his effort has improved etc, and trying to compare his performances to the recent ETH signings.
If that is not defending him then I don’t know what is?
It's not defending his recent form. It's reminding people that he's the ONLY player to play at a high level under ten Hag, so why is he getting the blame when not only has no one else ever played as well under ten Hag as him, but there's plenty worse right now despite not playing well himself.
I wouldn't accuse any player of sabotaging the manager, not just Rashford. The problem was ten Hag and his tactics.
Ok that has cleared up for me now. Thanks
He is now going to go on a scoring run to win over whoever replaces Ten Hag isn't he??
It would be the fault of the chaps who are in charge of our recruitment. However, the Head Coach has sole autonomy over team selection, so he could simply refuse to play them or more sensibly, rotate them.
As for the point on wages, if a player is happy to accept World Class wages from his employers then he must deliver consistent World Class performances. Fair? If the player doesn't produce those performances, then expect criticism.
Guaranteed.
I agree that it isn't just Rashford. However, I look at Rashford and Bruno as players who are supposed to be in the prime of their careers. They have each performed very well on occasion for us and by signing contracts worth huge money, they have therefore accepted the responsibility of producing top performances consistently. However, they are not delivering those performances.
I don't necessarily believe they are deliberately sabotaging the manager. Simply that they haven't been good enough as players and should accept criticism for that.
You do get that vibe don't you?
I don’t understand the confusion. Players on big wages being under more scrutiny and criticism is because of what big wages are linked with and how they ended up with big wages in the first place. There aren’t many occupations, especially not where you operate in public, where big wages won’t put people under more scrutiny if they don’t perform as expected. It’s only natural as the big wages are a valuation of those performances.
It’s fairly natural that someone like Bruno or Rashford will be under more scrutiny than the likes of Zirkzee, Ugarte, Amad. Not sure why anyone is pretending otherwise.
We rely heavily on Bruno and Rashford performing at their highest level, and they’re both miles off at the moment.
I mean, my last sentence wasn't in regards to Rashford. It was to do with ten Hag and why he himself failed. It was his own fault, not any individual player.
I agree with all that.
This is what @-Supreme- isn't understanding. I've been all for dropping Rashford for a long time now. He hasn't been good enough. But I'm not going to say he's purposefully got another manager sacked.
Survives another manager after under performing for over a year. He along with Shaw represent the dirty side of the club
Agreed. He's our most senior forward and the one we rely on. For two of the last three full seasons he's been awful. I'll be fair to him and say I don't think he's been anywhere near as bad as he was last season and he'll probably start performing better now EtH is gone but there is a sense of deja vu in all of this. I don't think it's wrong to expect better of your star player even in a struggling team. Palmer was in a shite Chelsea side last season and was outstanding, Salah was still banging in the goals that year Klopp struggled. When things aren't going well it's not an excuse.
What number will the next manager be for him? I've lost count now
6, discounting the ones who stayed for only a few games. LvG, Jose, Ole, Ralf, EtH and now the new guy.
Yes but when you deep it, does that make actual sense? Talking about the excessive criticism obviously....
An equally valid reason for me would be that some of you are negative and or moany cnuts.... but nobody wants to have that convo
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We’ll see. I still think it’s a mentality thing, he’s made it and he no longer feels he needs to put in the extra shift that caused him to make it in the first place. It just brings me back to the % thing he did with Lingard.
I mean, you agreed that Rashford has shit attitude and has clearly not been putting in the efforts, the manager was already at risk of getting sack at the time but he continued with it. Rashford has certainly played a role to the manager(s) sacking when putting in the efforts should be the minimum ask during these difficult times.
Or by your definition of deliberate, Rashford hasn’t scored an own goal or purposely getting sent off?
If it makes sense that monetary compensation is linked to performances?
Who played Rashford?
Does it matter? I am not pointing out that ETH isn’t responsible of this mess.
It does because I agree that Rashford wasn't good enough and needed dropping, but ten Hag himself refused to drop him. He rewarded him for these performances instead of showing that we demand a certain standard of effort.
I will say it again, purposely not putting in the efforts with shit attitude during difficult times, is it or not a deliberate attempt of not playing for the manager?
Linked to excessive criticism or abuse is what I meant and you know this, don't get slippery
I was saying this all season and last but people pick and choose what irks them
If he wasn't playing for him, ten Hag would've dropped him like he did to Ronaldo, Sancho, Varane, Amad, Casemiro, etc.
The fact that he started him nearly every game, and was quite clearly a favourite of his, indicates he was happy with him.
Yeah, we all saw ten Hag was more than happy to drop big names if he wasn't happy with them. He never dropped Rashford so that, to me, shows he was happy with him throughout his tenure here.
Is the criticism excessive?
Not sure what you mean. If you accept that wages are a natural consequence of performance, then you should also understand and accept that when your performance are nowhere near being good enough, and you’re still on the same wages, the level of criticism is naturally going to be relative. If you buy a vitra lounge chair, you expect the overall quality to be higher than a random lounge chair from Temu.
I see you have ignored my question again. Glad you think that by not putting the efforts means he supported the manager.
He's gone through four sacked managers now. More if you count Rangnick.
What I'm saying is that, to us, and I agree with you, it looked like he wasn't putting the effort in, and I wanted him dropped because of it.
But if the manager continues playing him despite showing he's not afraid to drop big name players, what are we supposed to think?
You're just writing words. Would you say Rashford's performances are correlated to his wages or vice versa? So in this context, what do you even mean?
You in your job do what you've always done, but a management decides to give you an (undeserved) pay rise..... do you deserve to be treated any differently in this moment?
The manager is at fault for playing him no doubt, but to say Rashford has played for the manager when he hasn’t put the effort in is very strange to say the least.
Just as an aside, what on Earth was he doing for that chance in the first half? He didn't even manage to get a shot off, despite being a very strong favourite to get onto the throughball ahead of their defender and keeper. It was almost like he didn't want to score.
Let’s call it a clean slate with every player except for Onana, who had been a model of excellence of professionalism this season.
The left?
I think you should be asking if there usually is corrolation between performances and wages, but it depends what you’re actually trying to say.
As far as Rashford goes, he’s one of the best paid players in the league and he hasn’t been performing like one of the best players in the league for a very very long time now.