Was there any serious alternatives then?
10
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 18
- Goals
- 4
- Assists
- 3
- Yellow cards
- 2
oh, what could go wrong?
I think it's time for people to accept that he's just not a very good footballer. He's been shit for 12 months now. Probably longer than that even, as his form was beginning to drop off towards the end of the 22/23 season and has been on a downward spiral ever since.
Didn't play for England at the Euros, had the summer off, so he should be firing on all cylinders at the start of this season, with the added motivation of proving his doubters wrong. Instead, he's still serving up the same old crap.
It's not going to get better. And no one is going to buy him for the money he's currently on.
Didn't play for England at the Euros, had the summer off, so he should be firing on all cylinders at the start of this season, with the added motivation of proving his doubters wrong. Instead, he's still serving up the same old crap.
It's not going to get better. And no one is going to buy him for the money he's currently on.
Watched the Brighton game and everytime a press was initiated which normally started with Mount, Rashford would be slow to pressing his man which meant the Brighton goalkeeper had an out in that direction.
I honestly don't know what he offers because even his pressing is lacklustre. Amad, Bruno and Mount do much better at it than him so why is he starting.
If he was sold tomorrow would we even miss anything from him?
I honestly don't know what he offers because even his pressing is lacklustre. Amad, Bruno and Mount do much better at it than him so why is he starting.
If he was sold tomorrow would we even miss anything from him?
Up against Veltman and a 50 year old Milner and couldn't once blow past them. That is a telling reality we are facing. He needs to be benched now, remember when people on the Caf were wondering if his 30 goal season had anything to do with him being on his last year of contract and getting shit for it. He hasn't done shit since Wout did all the shitty work for him.
I watched the first 10 goals and I'd argue his pace plays a big role in 7 of them...
No one can argue every good thing he's ever done on a football pitch is down to running fast. But how many players over the years have suffered injuries that have taken away their peak pace and agility and suddenly they don't look like the same player anymore. When a player senses they can no longer physically do what they used to be able to, it destroys their confidence also. Torres went from one of the most feared strikers in the world to a laughing stock within about 12 months. Rooney had more of an all-round game than most attackers but was finished by his late 20s when the physical decline set in.
When Rashford was ahead of a defender he used to be confident the defender wouldn't catch him, but now it's playing on his mind that he might be caught. When he faced a defender 1v1 he used to be confident he could shift the ball and shoot/cross without the defender tackling or getting the block in, and now he no longer has that confidence because he doesn't change direction or accelerate as quickly.
It's toxic to the dressing room, motivation of others and to the development of young players to have someone with such a half-arsed attitude, waltz into the starting line up week after week, month after month and (now) year after year. In any work environment when everyone sees there's little to no consequence paid by the laziest member of the team, then that's going to have a corosive effect on overall performance.
The ship has sailed on whether Rashford is a top class talent or a one dimensional player who - for lack of a longer sentence - has been found out. But what's worrying me is the impressionable young players at the club, looking for senior players to aspire to. What message does it send to them when you can mope around for two years, do absolutely nothing to justify your continued presence in the starting XI, yet get picked every single week. Let alone what it says to the rest of the current first team when they know the standard they have to reach to probably retain their place is as low as it is.
We've gone from players being torn apart if they slacked once during a match by a manager that understood why maintaining high standards was crucial to the success of the football club, to someone phoning it in for two years and most agreeing that unless he does better against Liverpool he might risk losing his place in the starting line up over the next few months.
The ship has sailed on whether Rashford is a top class talent or a one dimensional player who - for lack of a longer sentence - has been found out. But what's worrying me is the impressionable young players at the club, looking for senior players to aspire to. What message does it send to them when you can mope around for two years, do absolutely nothing to justify your continued presence in the starting XI, yet get picked every single week. Let alone what it says to the rest of the current first team when they know the standard they have to reach to probably retain their place is as low as it is.
We've gone from players being torn apart if they slacked once during a match by a manager that understood why maintaining high standards was crucial to the success of the football club, to someone phoning it in for two years and most agreeing that unless he does better against Liverpool he might risk losing his place in the starting line up over the next few months.
Analysis in Sky sports site was brutal. He had about half the amount of pressures the rest of the front line had, even Zirkzee had more!
And if one says, well, maybe he was instructed to conserve his energy for runs, Amad, who was poor made 33 runs to his 22.
Outside that, the worst thing for me was his attitude from the first minute. He actually tracked back Ok, but he just kept throwing his hands up at his team mates and gave up on situations too easily. I suspect it was a reason he was taken off this time.
Rashford seems to have lost genuine motivation to compete, and I suspect even he doesn't fully realise this.
And if one says, well, maybe he was instructed to conserve his energy for runs, Amad, who was poor made 33 runs to his 22.
Outside that, the worst thing for me was his attitude from the first minute. He actually tracked back Ok, but he just kept throwing his hands up at his team mates and gave up on situations too easily. I suspect it was a reason he was taken off this time.
Rashford seems to have lost genuine motivation to compete, and I suspect even he doesn't fully realise this.
100%.
He could easily create/score against Liverpool as TAA remains a defensive liability; media will then allow him to live off that for months on end if his form remains poor as it has since April 2023.
Why didn't Woodward etc make his remuneration conditional on a certain number of assists/goals?
Maybe I'm being biased here because i do enjoy him as a player when he is capable of finding form -
However, there's this small part of me that genuinely does believe that he is not necessarily the root cause of all our problems either.
Rashford is a player who is playing rubbish alongside 25 other players and i find it hard to pick a random player out like a magician from a hat and just put all the blame on them.
The fact is if Rashford was capable of finding form and producing the goods for the current Manchester United by himself on a consistent basis - then Rashford would arguably be one of the best players of the world, if not the best player in the world. Just like a magician, it sounds kind of unrealistic.
There's no balance of good tactics, good manager targeted players, versatility or progress of the team that Ten Hag's now built for the last 3 years.
Can i blame Antony for not being good enough for United? Because the more i think about it the less i feel like blaming Antony and more wondering if Ten Hag has just grabbed a rabbit from his hat and placed him in a middle of the full running motorway.
Sure, there will be a part of the fanbase that go the route of having a go at Rashford's work rate, body language or even mentality - but again players like Mason Mount, Antony, Fred, Bruno Fernandes show that the majority of the fanbase would still have a problem with our more hard working player if it didn't grab us the results we needed either.
I see players likeplayers Onana, Antony, Mazroui, De Ligt, Mount, Malacia, Eriksen, Lisandro Martinez play for us like the 2nd coming of Ten Hags Ajax probably players targeted with the right mindset Ten Hag looks for in his players more than their actually ability on the ball - & i do wonder just picking 11 players with a great attitude is good enough when the tactics are simply not that great.
Could i see Van Nistelrooy scoring goals for us when the rest of the team struggles to create chances themselves? Do i see Beckham whipping crosses in to Hojlund or even a false 9 Bruno Fernandes making them our lead goal scorer capable of competing with the likes of Haaland or even Salah? What about Beckham's work rate? What about Park Ji Sung?Would it have grabbed the results we needed if we had 3 x more of the lungs available to us but a manager who is incapable of getting the best out of a players feet?
I just see too many faults in Ten Hag's footballing managerial tactical ability to really turn my dislike towards the player. Ten Hag wasn't some hot prospect manager (though i believe he is a fantastic coach/assistant manager capable of helping players improve their personal game more so than making 11 players united to make a cohesive and functional team ) which is a different role all together. This may be why the hype of Ten Hag came more alongside the rise of players like De Ligt, De jong, Mazroui, DVB etc than necessarily his results or capacity as a manager.
I'd say his ability to improve or turn players like Garnacho, Dalot, Mainoo and Amad for example in to first teamers is what he is more capable off & succeeded with already than necessarily having the team play as a choesive unit & is maybe why Ten Hag consistently targted players he already previously work with before.
However, there's this small part of me that genuinely does believe that he is not necessarily the root cause of all our problems either.
Rashford is a player who is playing rubbish alongside 25 other players and i find it hard to pick a random player out like a magician from a hat and just put all the blame on them.
The fact is if Rashford was capable of finding form and producing the goods for the current Manchester United by himself on a consistent basis - then Rashford would arguably be one of the best players of the world, if not the best player in the world. Just like a magician, it sounds kind of unrealistic.
There's no balance of good tactics, good manager targeted players, versatility or progress of the team that Ten Hag's now built for the last 3 years.
Can i blame Antony for not being good enough for United? Because the more i think about it the less i feel like blaming Antony and more wondering if Ten Hag has just grabbed a rabbit from his hat and placed him in a middle of the full running motorway.
Sure, there will be a part of the fanbase that go the route of having a go at Rashford's work rate, body language or even mentality - but again players like Mason Mount, Antony, Fred, Bruno Fernandes show that the majority of the fanbase would still have a problem with our more hard working player if it didn't grab us the results we needed either.
I see players likeplayers Onana, Antony, Mazroui, De Ligt, Mount, Malacia, Eriksen, Lisandro Martinez play for us like the 2nd coming of Ten Hags Ajax probably players targeted with the right mindset Ten Hag looks for in his players more than their actually ability on the ball - & i do wonder just picking 11 players with a great attitude is good enough when the tactics are simply not that great.
Could i see Van Nistelrooy scoring goals for us when the rest of the team struggles to create chances themselves? Do i see Beckham whipping crosses in to Hojlund or even a false 9 Bruno Fernandes making them our lead goal scorer capable of competing with the likes of Haaland or even Salah? What about Beckham's work rate? What about Park Ji Sung?Would it have grabbed the results we needed if we had 3 x more of the lungs available to us but a manager who is incapable of getting the best out of a players feet?
I just see too many faults in Ten Hag's footballing managerial tactical ability to really turn my dislike towards the player. Ten Hag wasn't some hot prospect manager (though i believe he is a fantastic coach/assistant manager capable of helping players improve their personal game more so than making 11 players united to make a cohesive and functional team ) which is a different role all together. This may be why the hype of Ten Hag came more alongside the rise of players like De Ligt, De jong, Mazroui, DVB etc than necessarily his results or capacity as a manager.
I'd say his ability to improve or turn players like Garnacho, Dalot, Mainoo and Amad for example in to first teamers is what he is more capable off & succeeded with already than necessarily having the team play as a choesive unit & is maybe why Ten Hag consistently targted players he already previously work with before.
But not a level of pace he doesn't have now. He's still extremely fast. Some of those goals were so similar to the brighton chances, he just didn't look along the the line or time his run. That's nothing to do with pace, a slow player can do that. Jamie Vardy at his age did it against Spurs.
I think confidence is the big difference as he looks devoid of it, he can hardly trap a ball sometime and makes some terrible decisions. How you get that back is not an exact science and may never return to the levels in the video I posted, that's the worry.
He was good for 3 months. Did very little the first half of that season and dropped off again after that spell.
He was also pretty rubbish for the 18 months before that.
You've got to go back quite a way to find a season where Rashford performed throughout the entire campaign.
Needs to be a squad player now, never a starter unless we have injuries.
He's bloody awful, and I remember clearly how bad he was even when he was scoring 2 years ago.
Hard to criticise when your scoring, but he spent 90% of those games being bloody awful as well.
He's bloody awful, and I remember clearly how bad he was even when he was scoring 2 years ago.
Hard to criticise when your scoring, but he spent 90% of those games being bloody awful as well.
remind us which manager he was playing for in that 30 goal '3 month' season. Remember he was in a sulk previous for Ralf who wanted him to follow orders,.and dropped him for Elanga.
It looks like he doesn't want to be coached, just burst into life when has grass ahead of him
I think this is it in a nutshell. It probably also explains his lack of development in practically all aspects of his game. His dribbling isn't better now than it was 7 years ago. His use of the ball isn't. Nor is his reading of the game, or his decision making, especially when it comes to timing.
For there to have been no progress at all in any element of his game, is fairly extraordinary. Pace goes for many players, it's not unusual. Usually they have a solid foundation to fall back on. If Rashford's injuries have blighted his speed, then with 400+ games experience of the club, we should be seeing a player who has adapted his game to become a different type of player and contribute in other areas. We aren't.
Either he is extraordinarily unskilled as a player, or he's refused to listen to anyone and still thinks he is 'Rashy of the Rovers' because that's the player he always wanted to be as a kid and isn't listening to anyone who tells him differently.
There was a time Sterling was arguably the Premier League's player of two whole seasons - if i remember correctly he was called by United fans themselves to be the most important british player in world form and performance.
Just out of interest - do you think you would see City's version of Sterling under Ten Hag? Under Van Gaal? Under Ole? Under Mourinho?
I'm not stating that Rashford's flawless - but at the same time neither do i think United have been flawless both in managers, performances of players for me to single out someone just as a bad piece of the puzzle.
I honestly believe that if Rashford's wages were halved then so would be his hate and dislike of as a player.
However, then i also think that him getting a ridiculous contract wasn't exactly his fault either and yet the blame is mostly put on him for his performances not matching up with his wages now.
Is his wages his personal fault or the fault of people actually running the club? I don't think Ineos would have offered him his contract & hopefully thats is us as a club growing up an having the ability to analyse a players capability and potential better than we did before.
But again, i can hardly sit their pointing my finger at Rashford for not playing up to redeeming his wages. Then you will have fans calling him crazy but at the same time talking about Antony is nothing but a blinded hard working chicken.
I think people get his personality massively wrong rather, especially on social media and forums like this. It suits them to paint him as this sulky diva, when I think if anything its the opposite. I think it's himself he gets frustrated with.
That being said, it's clear that he's struggling. I don't think the system particularly helps him, as you could see on Saturday as nobody was attacking the box (due to no striker) Brighton could sit their CBs a bit wider and therefore he either had 2 men on him, or nobody up top to make spaces for him. He really needs to start scoring though, and got caught offside a few too many times.
The thing on his side is that the alternatives aren't really pulling up trees either. Amad aside from the goal has been a little frustrating. Garnacho really should be on 2 goals already, but he's yet to score. I think Garnacho will get better with match fitness though, so Rashford is running out of time a bit.
Will be interesting to see what changes with Ugarte coming in. I think there's less need for the 4222 compactness if so, which might help him a bit.
That being said, it's clear that he's struggling. I don't think the system particularly helps him, as you could see on Saturday as nobody was attacking the box (due to no striker) Brighton could sit their CBs a bit wider and therefore he either had 2 men on him, or nobody up top to make spaces for him. He really needs to start scoring though, and got caught offside a few too many times.
The thing on his side is that the alternatives aren't really pulling up trees either. Amad aside from the goal has been a little frustrating. Garnacho really should be on 2 goals already, but he's yet to score. I think Garnacho will get better with match fitness though, so Rashford is running out of time a bit.
Will be interesting to see what changes with Ugarte coming in. I think there's less need for the 4222 compactness if so, which might help him a bit.
He's fast becoming Anthony M the second (if he isn't already).
I agree on the contract situation not being his fault, that was the previous regime building him up to be something he isnt. He doesnt have the mentality to be the main man as he clearly cant handle criticism. Stop sidestepping the manager issue, he had his best season under ETH, signed his contract under him who backed him to the hilt last season when the club was in turmoil, he sulked and went on the piss. For me he doesnt need to score 20 goals a season to justify being a decent player, but he offers little else unless his shots are flying in the net
His body language stinks, sunken defeated shoulders. Constantly throwning like he's hard done by. I think we could be seeing another case of his career being over early due to over exposure from a young age development wise.
Day by day looking more and more stupid that we weren't actively looking to garner a big fee off his reputation in recent summers
I know people are tired of me posting these in various threads, but sorry they are still very useful for comparing players. The one below gives a good idea of Rashford from the past two seasons, and then for comparison I added Nico Williams as an example of how an ideal replacement might differ in that same position.
- Interesting to see that Rashford's overall game wasn't much different between last season and his dynamite 22/23 year, except that he was just far more effective in his finishing. Shows that if he's not finding that extreme finishing ability he's just not contributing a whole lot to overall match dynamics.
- Interesting to see that Rashford's overall game wasn't much different between last season and his dynamite 22/23 year, except that he was just far more effective in his finishing. Shows that if he's not finding that extreme finishing ability he's just not contributing a whole lot to overall match dynamics.
Problem is he basically only had about 10 months in total where’s actually playing well despite playing for about 7 years now.
He should have been sold 2 years ago when his value was at his highest. Now we’re just stuck with a player who’s basically in retirement mode.
Yep.
We are effectively hamstrung by his relative age and his position in the squad as a homegrown talent. For better or worse, until someone makes a brave decision to sell him, he will occupy that left wing for the next 5-6 years, which will mean that we won't look to improve that position so long as he's there.
This is bad news. A United with Rashford for the next 5-6 years is coming nowhere near a title run.
At some point, someone, anyone, has to be brave enough to be decisive enough to not put their hopes in some slim chance that he learns how to make good decisions on and off the ball, game in, game out, season on season.
Why do we have to "help" him perform? Is he some sort of child? Never have I heard Liverpool fans say that Salah has to be helped, he just performs to the standard the club expects and aspires to week in, week out. He's been struggling for years now, aside from a few months of form here or there, the time for patience has run out long ago.
There's no realistic hope of selling Rashford, but there is a realistic hope that ETH will select players based on form rather than reputation or wages. ETH has shown ruthlessness with Sancho, but for some reason not with Rashford, who has been even more appalling than Sancho. At least Sancho offers hope of beating a compact defense with an intelligent 1-2, whereas with Rashford there is no hope whatsoever.
But if we're up late in the game and a winger needs to come off Rashford could be a powerful asset against a club which is stretched looking for the equalizer. But apart from that, starting Rashford means we're starting with 10 men.
We'll just have to get another manager, obviously. One that likes to sit deep and counter
A screamer against Liverpool to get the season going Rashy. Cmon
Throughout the time Salah has been at Liverpool they have been an exceptionally well coached team, with a midfield set up designed to allow their wingers to get as much opportunity to attack as possible. They have forwards whose main role it is to supply those wingers and he plays with one of the best attacking right backs in the world behind him.
Salah is a better player than Rashford but he’s playing in a set up which is perfectly crafted to get the best out of him. In contrast, Rashford rarely has a left back worth the name supporting him for two years, for most of last season had a CF whose hold up play was questionable at best and, so far this season, has been “supplied” by teammates who can’t seem to make simple 10 yard passes to him. Oh, and we often play 50 passes at the back waiting for the opposition to get into shape before passing him the ball (or punt it in the general direction of his head) with two men in front of him and expect him to produce miracles.
These two players are not benefiting from the same support and, yes, we should be expecting his manager and teammates to do better.
Salah is a world class player who makes his team better. It can go through him and he'll have an impact even if he's not scoring a ton of goals. He's done it with Egypt as well. You can trust Salah to make that impact throughout matches and throughout a season.
Marcus isn't that player and is so limited that he becomes a liability one too many times. As the highest paid player at the club, he himself has to be better. Decision making, maturity, taking chances, accountability, etc are things that are not dependent on a teammate.
Good post. Salah without a doubt is world class. A very special player. You can argue he's one of those players that teams try very hard to take out of the game and leave themselves vulnerable and open. He has that aura.
I agree Rashford doesn't have quite that and he can't be compared to Salah. I do think Rashford has shown a glimpse of being world class over the years. But, he's never done it consistently and somehow I still have faith in him, he just needs to get his head right IMO. However, when comparing to Salah, I don't think he can ever be that good.
so its the managers fault, its the left backs fault and its the centre forwards fault. This is beyond parody now
These are obvious points, which anyone watching our matches can see. You can perfectly validly have a view that Rashford should be doing better. However, it’s beyond argument that Liverpool’s system is far easier for a winger to play in than ours.
That may very well be true, it's not the only factor involved in debating what a great player is. In the Liverpool team, Rashford instead of Salah - doesn't mean he's going to have the impact Salah has. Salah has more maturity and skill than Rashford. I'm always one to defend Rashford, but he's not the player Salah is with or without being in a much better system.
Needs to intensify to his game again to deserve that LW spot, just too little energy in everything he does these days.
Forget even Salah, Lucho Diaz is far more comparable to and far more effective than Rashford.
For a lot of last year I worried that Rashfords issues were mental and confidence based, now I’m not so sure. It seemed like last season he was unmotivated and didn’t trust himself to beat players off the dribble and hit shots first time. Now I’m starting to worry all the back injuries have taken their toll. He seems considerably slower and unable to break away from defenders. If that’s the case, he’s done because too much of his game relies on pace.
Provided Sancho leaves it would leave Rashford , Antony , Casemiro and Maguire left and all dead wood would be removed. I haven’t included players who will be leaving on a free next season
I don't get this acceptance of what amounts to a disinclination to try hard because he isn't feeling it or isn't motivated or needs a new challenge. Or indeed the apparent negotiation that he'll only put in a shift if he likes the left-back he's paired with.
New challenge? I find that offensive, especially when so much of his public image he's desperate to promote is based on this 'loves the club' front. Especially galling when it's from the footballing equivalent of Peter Andre. One song anyone can remember then yourself become a 'celeb' then swan around the place acitng as if you're an A-lister. Rashford's played well for three months in the last God knows how many seasons and he has the attitude of someone visibly irritated he hasn't been given a knighthood yet.
New challenge? I find that offensive, especially when so much of his public image he's desperate to promote is based on this 'loves the club' front. Especially galling when it's from the footballing equivalent of Peter Andre. One song anyone can remember then yourself become a 'celeb' then swan around the place acitng as if you're an A-lister. Rashford's played well for three months in the last God knows how many seasons and he has the attitude of someone visibly irritated he hasn't been given a knighthood yet.
Issue is there will be new deadwood.
Mount
Malacia
Maybe one of our other forwards?
Don’t know how the season will fare.