Managers Draft - R1: Skizzo vs Stobzilla

Based on players peak 'under the chosen manager', who will win the match?

  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
42,037
Location
┴┬┴┤( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬
vs
Stobz-formation-tactics.png


.......................................... Team @Skizzo .......................................................................................... Team @Stobzilla ..............................

..................................... Manager: Udo Lattek ..................................................................................... Manager: Fabio Capello ..............................

TEAM SKIZZO

FORMATION

A narrow, loose 442 diamond.

KEY AREA

Midfield: At the tip of my midfield diamond, roaming in space, is Maradona. He'll be looking to receive the ball, and pull defenders with his dribbling, and pick out passes for two of the most clinical strikers in German history, Gerd Muller and Rummenigge. The anchor will be Stielike, who was one of the pioneers of the position. He will be looking to disrupt Totti's influence, and to help shield the back four. Between Maradona and Stielike, are two box to box midfielders of the highest order. Key components of the great Bayern side of the past, Lerby and Roth were big game players, capable of grabbing the game by the scruff of the neck when necessary. They will be able to provide cover on defence when needed, and also plan their charges forward to link up.

Both teams have the ability to score goals, and hurt the other team going forward. In a game like this with players who are capable of magic with the ball, it can't be simplified down to "this guy >> that guy" comparisons.

Games like this are won by units playing together to limit the oppositions strengths. I feel with my midfield and forwards, I'm much better equipped to take the chances that will come our way. Even with Stobz having an edge on defence, he'll be handling a lot more traffic coming his way and with my forward line, and big game midfield, the damage will be done.

All that being said, tactics will be updated throughout the game depending on how things are going. My substitute is Allan Simonsen.

Good luck Stobz.
_______________________________________________________________________

TEAM STOBZILLA

Your basic fluid 5-3-2/4-1-2-1-2/3-5-2

Fairly little needs to be written about Baresi, here he plays off of his favoured right foot and will be a rock at the back alongside Samuel, whom under Cappello was one of the best centre backs in world football, earning a big money move to Real Madrid at the end of Cappello's tenure at Roma.

Hierro is the main man he drops into the middle of the centre backs when needed and can bring the ball out also, alongside Sammer and only a couple of others, he is tailor made for both roles and can perform them both to the very highest level. Tassotti resuming his relationship with Baresi from Milan's great back line and Samuel resuming his with Candela from Roma's brilliant defence in the early part of the last decade is a deliberate move, it keeps the understanding going and they will know each others games inside out.

If Hierro is the focus of the defence then Totti would very much be the centre of the attack. Capable of finding runs in behind from Van Basten or playing off of a mountain of a player in Gullit his passing in the final third will be critical. Emerson offers another layer of security to the defence and was thought of as one of the better CM's in world football under Cappello. Boban can be equally adept at breaking forward when needed or sitting in deeper and spraying passes around.

Tassotti and the vastly under-rated Candela will be tireless in their work up and down the flanks putting in early crosses where possible for Van Basten and Gullit who are worth a couple of goals from their headers alone. This is without mentioning their ability with the ball at their feet.

It is a defensively sound set up which equally offers enough fire power and most importantly variety to ensure goals against virtually any system.

Good luck to Skizzo. Hope for a good game.
 
Last edited:
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Game on!

All the best to both managers.
Click to expand...
I think you should add the picked managers in the team names. Skizzo doesn't mention Lattek at all, which makes the whole "Based on players peak under the chosen manager'' thing a bit difficult for someone who didn't follow the draft thread ;).

Just write in the line below the formation pics ... Team Skizzo - Manager: Udo Lattek ... vs ... Team Stobzilla - Manager Fabio Capello ... instead or something like that. Then even people who only look at the formations get an idea.
 
Balu said:
I think you should add the picked managers in the team names. Skizzo doesn't mention Lattek at all, which makes the whole "Based on players peak under the chosen manager'' thing a bit difficult for someone who didn't follow the draft thread ;).

Just write in the line below the formation pics ... Team Skizzo - Manager: Udo Lattek ... vs ... Team Stobzilla - Manager Fabio Capello ... instead or something like that. Then even people who only look at the formations get an idea.
Click to expand...

Agree. Thats what i thought as well. For a draft thats all about the managers, not a single mention of Lattek.
 
First impression is split equally.

Defensively sound, but With Emerson there Stobz shades it a bit. I like Skizzo's midfield better. Offensively nothing much to choose, Maradona is better but countered by Emerson's defensive presence there.
 
Apologies...leaving the manager out was an oversight on my part. Thanks for updating it EAP.

at work right now, so will try and keep an eye in here when I can.

and again...good luck stobz. Hoping for a good game!
 
I hope that it won't backfire on me later, but I will state here, as I stated in the main thread, I'm not a big fan of a picks "on a technicality" - and the fact that Maradona was injured half of the time that he was managed by Lattek, played about 20 matches overall and was the main reason that Lattek was sacked has to count here. If you're not familiar with this, you would just imagine that Skizzo simply has the best player in the draft, as the only his competitor for the greatest player ever isn't available. To be fair I can't imagine how anyone can not pick Maradona though, but it's another thought.

I would've loved to hear more about players time under this particular manager but it's a hell of a job to write such a write-up.

Skizzo's team is still brilliant and I'm pleased to see Stielike here, he became one of my favorite players after the research I did on him in the last draft.
 
harms said:
I hope that it won't backfire on me later, but I will state here, as I stated in the main thread, I'm not a big fan of a picks "on a technicality" - and the fact that Maradona was injured half of the time that he was managed by Lattek, played about 20 matches overall and was the main reason that Lattek was sacked has to count here. If you're not familiar with this, you would just imagine that Skizzo simply has the best player in the draft, as the only his competitor for the greatest player ever isn't available. To be fair I can't imagine how anyone can not pick Maradona though, but it's another thought.

I would've loved to hear more about players time under this particular manager but it's a hell of a job to write such a write-up.

Skizzo's team is still brilliant and I'm pleased to see Stielike here, he became one of my favorite players after the research I did on him in the last draft.
Click to expand...
Agreed. It's not Napoli Maradona but it's still Maradona. Skizzo does have a number of big hitters. Where he will gain the most ground is in that Breitner/Lerby axis with only really Boban for much company there. Equally though Van Basten and Gullit look like they'd present a few problems here as well.
 
Leaning towards Skizzo as of now, just waiting to hear more from both managers. Go ahead, have a nibble at each other :D.

Why not swap Gullit and Totti's positions? In Lerby, Stielike and Roth, you are facing a truly fearsome midfield trio and Gullit's tenacity and strength could have been used better there. Although, I can understand why you would want a Gullit-Basten duo up front.

Skizzo's team looks great ;) but just unsure about Hannes in defense. Haven't watched too much of him, how would regular watchers of Bundesliga rate him as a player and how would he fare against the Basten-Gullit duo?
 
Thanks for the comments so far. Popping in quickly for Some thoughts before getting bacl to work.

both teams are set up to play through the middle for most damage. Stobz wing backs arent enough to trouble mine in a huge game changing aspect. Breitner will love the freedom to push up to link with Lerby, knowing he has cover in the form of three midfielders capable of covering.

Since much of the game will be focused centrally, the midfield will be most important, and I feel I have an advantage there with the three big game midfielders.

That being said, we are both set up almost identically...with Stielike dropping into defence if necessary, and and pushing into the mid when able. Id give his defence an edge, id give my forwards the edge, and I think my midfield can put a stranglehold on the game to swing it in my favour. With lack of the ball it nullifies the effect his forwards will have.
 
Joga Bonito said:
Why not swap Gullit and Totti's positions? In Lerby, Stielike and Roth, you are facing a truly fearsome midfield trio and Gullit's tenacity and strength could have been used better there. Although, I can understand why you would want a Gullit-Basten duo up front.
Click to expand...

Good point. I had the same feeling that though he has a lot of ball players in the back, his midfield is not quite convincing as a regular bridge between defence and attack. But then it would be a shame to break up the Gullit/Van Basten partnership who could be a gamewinner onto themselves.
 
harms said:
I hope that it won't backfire on me later, but I will state here, as I stated in the main thread, I'm not a big fan of a picks "on a technicality" - and the fact that Maradona was injured half of the time that he was managed by Lattek, played about 20 matches overall and was the main reason that Lattek was sacked has to count here. If you're not familiar with this, you would just imagine that Skizzo simply has the best player in the draft, as the only his competitor for the greatest player ever isn't available. To be fair I can't imagine how anyone can not pick Maradona though, but it's another thought.

I would've loved to hear more about players time under this particular manager but it's a hell of a job to write such a write-up.

Skizzo's team is still brilliant and I'm pleased to see Stielike here, he became one of my favorite players after the research I did on him in the last draft.
Click to expand...

I did take that into account. Stob's formation is just too narrow.
 
I had Skizzo down as one of the very strongest teams before the draw was made but this looks alot more competitive than I thought it would.

What's the story with Lattek and Maradona? Was there anything that Lattek did that actually kept Maradona from playing to his full potential under him or was it just injuries? How did he actually play in the matches he did play?

Beyond that, random drunken spewings:

- I thought Stob would struggle with width but I really like Candela, especially in a back 3/5, and after watching a few more Sacchi/Capello era Milan matches lately Tassotti is better going forward than I remember.

- to @Balu especially, how do assess Skizzo's defence?

- do Hierro and Baresi work together? I sometimes feel defensive balance is over-emphasised when we're talking about players that can do a bit of everything, but I'm interested to see what others think. Especially with Hierro's arrows indicating his playing a classic libero role and Baresi's tendency to push upfield.
 
tKBxQES.png


Here's literally every game that he played under Lattek. Pink goals are penalties, 1a is La Liga, REC is Cup Winners' Cup
 
Pat_Mustard said:
I had Skizzo down as one of the very strongest teams before the draw was made but this looks alot more competitive than I thought it would.

What's the story with Lattek and Maradona? Was there anything that Lattek did that actually kept Maradona from playing to his full potential under him or was it just injuries? How did he actually play in the matches he did play?


- to @Balu especially, how do assess Skizzo's defence?

.
Click to expand...

Apologies now because im typing on my phone...so there could be typos galore. Ill try to keep them to a minimum :)

Ill address the points in regards to my team. Maradonas time at Barca was hampered mainly by injuries. My understanding, and someone may be able to shed more light on this, was that Lattek basically became a scapegoat for the teams alleged failings...despite still winning cups. When Maradona was playing, he was still full of his marauding creativity that could worry defences. I posted the video against red star in the draft topic showing a sample of what he was doing at Barca under Lattek.

as for the strength of my team in comparison. I had a great building block to start with...my issue will be reinforcements. Joga gets picks before I do, plus we dont have any international players to choose from. Could make it tricky as other teams get to strengthen even more.

As for my defence...Hannes and Augenthaler never played together, but I feel would form a complimentary pairing in the mold of the ball playing CB and the no nonsense CB. Augenthaler became one of the best Bayern defenders and, while not on the same level as Beckenbauer, was a great leader from the back and could use the ball effectively.
 
Stobzilla said:
Eurgh, another landslide. I really am quite terrible at this draft business.
Click to expand...

This draft was always going to have some first round victims. Some teams were just too great to handle in the first round and it seems like Skizzo was one of them. But like he says, unless another Lattek leaves the contest he can't improve his team at all.

So I wouldn't be very hard on yourself, it is just the way it was bound to work in this draft.
 
Stobzilla said:
Eurgh, another landslide. I really am quite terrible at this draft business.
Click to expand...

Dont be too disheartened...I won my first draft, then proceeded to follow it up with two or three first round exits. Sometimes its the luck of the draw. Your team looks much better on paper than what I expected. TThere's still time left.
 
Annahnomoss said:
This draft was always going to have some first round victims. Some teams were just too great to handle in the first round and it seems like Skizzo was one of them. But like he says, unless another Lattek leaves the contest he can't improve his team at all.

So I wouldn't be very hard on yourself, it is just the way it was bound to work in this draft.
Click to expand...
Kohler and Matthäus would help his team a lot.
 
Pat_Mustard said:
I had Skizzo down as one of the very strongest teams before the draw was made but this looks alot more competitive than I thought it would.

What's the story with Lattek and Maradona? Was there anything that Lattek did that actually kept Maradona from playing to his full potential under him or was it just injuries? How did he actually play in the matches he did play?

Beyond that, random drunken spewings:

- I thought Stob would struggle with width but I really like Candela, especially in a back 3/5, and after watching a few more Sacchi/Capello era Milan matches lately Tassotti is better going forward than I remember.

- to @Balu especially, how do assess Skizzo's defence?

- do Hierro and Baresi work together? I sometimes feel defensive balance is over-emphasised when we're talking about players that can do a bit of everything, but I'm interested to see what others think. Especially with Hierro's arrows indicating his playing a classic libero role and Baresi's tendency to push upfield.
Click to expand...
As far as I know, the problems between Lattek and Maradona were mostly based on Lattek's incredible demand for discipline, not only on the pitch, but in general. It escalated when Maradona was repeatedly late in training and for away games. From what I've seen these problems didn't really affect Maradona's performances though, the injury and the hepatitis were bigger problems, but I'm not 100% sure about the timeline and how much of it fell into Lattek's spell. And even after Lattek was fired, Maradona's problems at the club continued. He just fought with the club president instead and later embarrased the club in front of Spain's royal family at a Copa del Rey game, where he started a huge brawl on the pitch and later had to apologise personally in front of the king.

Difficult to rate Maradona at Barca, not his Napoli peak yet, of course, but still a damn great player. I wouldn't take too much away from his Barca form for being picked under Lattek though.

I'm not entirely sure about Skizzo's defence. I really rate Augenthaler and can see it working as a centerback pair with Hannes, even though I probably would have gone with a different centerback. And Stielike really adds a lot protection. I'd say Hansen is a bit of a weak point, never really rated him as a top defender, but Skizzo is a bit lucky, that he doesn't face a team with dangerous wide players here, so it shouldn't be a big problem.

I agree on the Baresi - Hierro point. I can see it work, Baresi can play a disciplined centerback role, no doubt. But it feels a bit wrong, it's a bit of a shame, because it takes something away from his game.
 
Annahnomoss said:
This draft was always going to have some first round victims. Some teams were just too great to handle in the first round and it seems like Skizzo was one of them. But like he says, unless another Lattek leaves the contest he can't improve his team at all.

So I wouldn't be very hard on yourself, it is just the way it was bound to work in this draft.
Click to expand...
Yeah the draw is pretty fundamental here in determining fortunes in this one - more so than in other drafts. Some teams have been shafted while a couple of others have got rather lucky.
 
Stobzilla said:
Eurgh, another landslide. I really am quite terrible at this draft business.
Click to expand...

As someone who will no doubt be on the end of a drubbing come tomorrow, I can relate. Ah well, the drafting is the best part anyway :)

I do like your team though, and I like that you went with the spirit of the draft and picked players like Emerson and Candela, who weren't amazing players per se, but they were unbelievable under Capello at Roma. Agree with Joga that you should switch Totti and Gullit though, it will add steel to your midfield and then Boban can drift to the right a bit.
 
I wonder how much of this landslide is down to Maradona. Skizzo looks great and would win even if you swappped him for someone at Aimar's level. I suppose we'll never know.
 
Stobzilla said:
Eurgh, another landslide. I really am quite terrible at this draft business.
Click to expand...

You got drawn with one of the best teams in this draft and there is no shame in losing to a team with the likes of Gerd Muller and Maradona. Tough luck mate.
 
harms said:
tKBxQES.png


Here's literally every game that he played under Lattek. Pink goals are penalties, 1a is La Liga, REC is Cup Winners' Cup
Click to expand...

Cheers mate! That's actually a very impressive goals per game ratio he managed.

Balu said:
As far as I know, the problems between Lattek and Maradona were mostly based on Lattek's incredible demand for discipline, not only on the pitch, but in general. It escalated when Maradona was repeatedly late in training and for away games. From what I've seen these problems didn't really affect Maradona's performances though, the injury and the hepatitis were bigger problems, but I'm not 100% sure about the timeline and how much of it fell into Lattek's spell. And even after Lattek was fired, Maradona's problems at the club continued. He just fought with the club president instead and later embarrased the club in front of Spain's royal family at a Copa del Rey game, where he started a huge brawl on the pitch and later had to apologise personally in front of the king.

Difficult to rate Maradona at Barca, not his Napoli peak yet, of course, but still a damn great player. I wouldn't take too much away from his Barca form for being picked under Lattek though.

I'm not entirely sure about Skizzo's defence. I really rate Augenthaler and can see it working as a centerback pair with Hannes, even though I probably would have gone with a different centerback. And Stielike really adds a lot protection. I'd say Hansen is a bit of a weak point, never really rated him as a top defender, but Skizzo is a bit lucky, that he doesn't face a team with dangerous wide players here, so it shouldn't be a big problem.

I agree on the Baresi - Hierro point. I can see it work, Baresi can play a disciplined centerback role, no doubt. But it feels a bit wrong, it's a bit of a shame, because it takes something away from his game.
Click to expand...

Thanks Balu, very interesting points as ever. :lol: at the bolded part.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.