Manager Draft Semi Final - Balu Guttman VS The Capillows(EAP)

Who would win based on their peak under the chosen manager?


  • Total voters
    26
  • Poll closed .

Annahnomoss

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Balu & Pedro's homage to Béla Guttmann

09_10_08_bela_guttmann.jpg

The game is tricky, EAP has an excellent team and we can't counter all his strength, so we need to go with what is our by far strongest formation. We combine the best out of two of the greatest attacking teams of all time and balance it with incredible workrate from all eleven players, after all more than anything else, that's part of Guttmann's legacy, using versatility and workrate throughout the whole team to make his top heavy formations work.

"Guttmann was a part of the sub culture of football thinkers who were catalysts for a very early foundation for Total Football. The 1930’s had seen the Austria Wunderteam develop a style of quick passing taken from the legendary Scotsman Jimmy Hogan. The triumvirate of Gusztáv Sebes, Márton Bukovi and Béla Guttmann adapted this to include rigorous training regimes, fluid movement and versatility amongst players. The Hungarian side also featured perhaps the earliest incarnation of the false 9, a tactic that was unprecedented at the time. The great Barça team masterminded by Pep Guardiola has its roots in the Hungarian football constructed by those three men. The successes of many other famous sides can also be linked back to their tactical innovations."

More than anything, that's what we want. Quick passing, fluidity in movement and workrate from front to back. The wonderful Zoltán Czibor comes in to play on the left wing, famous for his impressive dribbling skills and his perfect crosses and passes to the strikers. He completes an attacking formation, that offers everything: skill, intelligence, movement, physicality and of course deadly finishing from every angle.

During the draft we created a short journey along Guttmann's career with a few great stories and a bit of background information on our players. You can find them 'here'. Our first and second game also give a lot of insight into Guttmann and the players.

In possession:
We're back to the Benfica blueprint, the 3-3-4 with Boszik pulling the strings in midfield and Coluna and Eusebio driving the ball forward. Joya moved to the right and will keep Maldini busy, stretch the play and make sure that Maldini can't tuck in to help the defense. Czibor will isolate Cafu on the left wing and look to connect with his favourite finisher Puskás.

In defense:
We'll get in trouble from time to time, no doubt about that. A lot depends on our players being able to delay attacks until we drop deeper into a well organised 352 shape. Puskás and Eusebio aren't lazy, they'll put pressure on Baresi and Redondo. Tito follows Gullit and turns our defensive shape in a solid 442 when Gullit makes runs into the box. It's all not that complicated, we work hard as a team and we'll pull it off.

Final words:
If there's an attack to score against that Milan backline, then it's no doubt ours. They never faced anything like the hurricane we send towards them and with shakiness appearing in the heart of Capello's team, who knows what would happen?

------------------------------Balu/Pedro Guttman--------------------------------------------------------------The Capillows(EAP)
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Edgar Allan Pillow
Capello

The Capillows

Improvements to the team:



Ruud Gullit has joined his strike partner in van Basten. A 'Total Football'er he easily fits into many positions. Athletic, strong, aabundanceof stamina, intelligent, aware of spaces and had talent to exploit them, Ruud is a icon!

Cafu has agreed to join the team to replace Panucci who decided to go on a sabbatical post the encounter with CR7. Amongst the top 3 RB's of all time, he certainly adds to the solidity and a attacking outlet to the team.

Tactics:

Formation: 4-2-3-1

Nothing much to be said, that I've not said before.

Defence:
+ Arguably the greatest defensive unit in history.
+ The famed Milan defence just got better with the addition of Cafu and Redondo. Cafu in right back is a more improved link between defence and attack when compared to Panucci. Redondo is a incomaprable genius in controlling a game from that position. Presence of the solid Desailly allows him a bit more freedom to move up when in possession and dictate the like few midfielders can dream of.
+ Milan remained unbeaten for 58 league games, between 19 May 1991 and 21 March 1993, which included an entire season in the league. Milan won the 1991-92 title undefeated, going unbeaten for an Italian record of 58 matches. During the 1993-94 season, Baresi helped Milan concede a mere 15 goals in Serie A, helping the club to finish the season with the best defence.

(Milan also scored a record 74 goals that season. This clearly shows Milan not a all defensive 'park a tank' team. They were fully capable of scoring in abundance too.)

Midfield:

A slight change from the standard 4-4-2 employed by Capello fit in perfectly with the improvements made to the team.

+ As mentioned before defensively Redondo and Deailly complement each other perfectly. The power of face and Desailly gels with the intelligence and positioning of Redondo. Both are top DM's and Redondo is so much more and his presence there provides a ideal platform to control the midfield and launch attacks from.
+ The addition of Nedved creates a potent link on the left flank. Presence of Maldini there allows him to focus more on attack and midfield.
+ Gullit in a AM rather than a SS position gets more out of his talents. His workrate will be a valuable addition to the spine. With 2 DM's (one of them Redondo), he cannot ask for a better launch pad to ply his magic.

Attack:

Marco van Basten - Very underrated, but one of the best strikers in the history of the game.

Winning formula:

1) DEFENSIVE SOLIDITY - When your opponents are Puskas and Eusebio, underestimating them would be disaster. The defence should be rock solid to cater to both Puskas trickery and sheer power/pace of Eusebio. In that sense you can't ask for anything better than what my team has.

2) PACE - This is one of the incredible fast attacks in the draft. Nedved, Savicevic, Gullit are all incredibly quick and capable of latching on the a genius pass from Redondo. With van Baeten waiting to provide genius finishes, it will be near impossible to stop us from scoring.

+ Bozsik is a great deep lying playmaker, but pace is not one one his strengths. Hi facing Nedved will be one of the better routes for me to get straight to his defence. Goncalves may be a competent defender, but he is against Gullit. I'm not underestimating the defensive cover, but simply put, the advantage Nedved has and the presence of Gullit tilts this in my favour.

3) FLEXIBILITY - The front 3 is so flexible with all 3 capable of interchanging positions, dragging their markers and defenders out of position depends on the flow of the game. Presence of Cafu to that wing provides so much ammunition to Savicevic to take advantage of.

Good luck to Balu. In real life this will be a match to drool upon for generations.[/QUOTE]
 
+ Milan remained unbeaten for 58 league games, between 19 May 1991 and 21 March 1993, which included an entire season in the league. Milan won the 1991-92 title undefeated, going unbeaten for an Italian record of 58 matches. During the 1993-94 season, Baresi helped Milan concede a mere 15 goals in Serie A, helping the club to finish the season with the best defence.

(Milan also scored a record 74 goals that season. This clearly shows Milan not a all defensive 'park a tank' team. They were fully capable of scoring in abundance too.)
In 93/94 Milan scored a mere 36!
 
First shots... :angel:


Czibor has Cafu. Joya has Maldini. And the fantastic Puskas/Eusebio has to deal with Baresi/Costacurta/Desailly. "An unstoppable force meets a immovable object kind" of thingy here, imo. Both lines are flawless. Though in this match I should be more wary of Puskas than Eusebio. His fearsome pace and thunderous shot gets somewhat negated to a extent when he runs into that congested area around my box.

Not so equal at the other end.

As I mention in OP, Bozsik is not known for his pace. In fact early in his career, it was a major drawback for him. Here he comes across Nedved, one of the best in business. This coupled with a back 3 (insted of a 4) will definitely put so much pressure on Maldini old man and Ramos. With attacking options the pedigree of Gullit/vanBasten, this would be a direct line to my scoring.
 
You too Balu. Just shows how I such in predicting lineup's. No wonder Pedro was pissed with me :lol:
We had absolutely no clue what to use. I came up with 5 different ones and hated all with the exception of this one. Not because it's perfect against your team, just because I think it would play beautiful football.

I had a nice 433 with Eusebio as inside right, but then I drag Maldini inside, which doesn't really help me scoring goals. So I needed two wingers, which lead me to a 424, but then 2 midfielders against Gullit, Desailly, Redondo? Yeah, bad idea. I actually thought about dropping Eusebio at one point :lol:.
 
Yup. Just shows they can win the league both ways. :D
The players weren't fully corrupted by 'bore me to death' - Capello yet. You shouldn't be allowed to use the attacking potential Capello inherited from Sacchi at all for choosing the boring manager of those two in my opinion ;)
 
Balu and Pedro has done one hell of a job in this draft and it has been very entertaining, I voted for EAP though.
 
You done right thing here Balu, playing to your teams strengths.
 
We had absolutely no clue what to use. I came up with 5 different ones and hated all with the exception of this one. Not because it's perfect against your team, just because I think it would play beautiful football.

I had a nice 433 with Eusebio as inside right, but then I drag Maldini inside, which doesn't really help me scoring goals. So I needed two wingers, which lead me to a 424, but then 2 midfielders against Gullit, Desailly, Redondo? Yeah, bad idea. I actually thought about dropping Eusebio at one point :lol:.

EAP asked me how I expected you to lineup and I fully expected you not to try negate him but just go with your strongest attack. The only doubt in my mind was Kocsis or Coluna. I though having just acquired Kocsis you would give him a run out and play Puskas behind Kocsis and Eusebio. The Coluna option gives you greater solidity when dropping into that 3-5-2 though, granted.
 
It's not a direct line of scoring if you have to go through two of my players for feck sake :lol:. You make it sound as if they weren't even there.

You mean "Maldini old man"? He isn't, still searching for his Alzheimer pills. I hear he is searching the wrong locker, they are in the other dressing room where naughty Paolo tucked them away in his locker.
 
The players weren't fully corrupted by 'bore me to death' - Capello yet. You shouldn't be allowed to use the attacking potential Capello inherited from Sacchi at all for choosing the boring manager of those two in my opinion ;)

In fairness to Capello, in 1991-92 they had a fit Marco while in 1993-94 they had Daniele Massaro. With Monday's paper we know he is just a boring manager, but at the time you couldn't help but feel he was being forced into the boredom. Gullit of course knew otherwise, which I suspect was behind their falling out.
 
In fairness to Capello, in 1991-92 they had a fit Marco while in 1993-94 they had Daniele Massaro. With Monday's paper we know he is just a boring manager, but at the time you couldn't help but feel he was being forced into the boredom. Gullit of course knew otherwise, which I suspect was behind their falling out.
Fair enough, but we're long past Monday ;).
 
The players weren't fully corrupted by 'bore me to death' - Capello yet. You shouldn't be allowed to use the attacking potential Capello inherited from Sacchi at all for choosing the boring manager of those two in my opinion ;)

Yeah, I really wanted Sacchi...but Capello had nearly the same, but wider. Seeing Stobz would already cut in Sacchi's prime players...it just didn't make much sense.

It's not a direct line of scoring if you have to go through two of my players for feck sake :lol:. You make it sound as if they weren't even there.

Imo usually when it comes to 1v1 situations it usually favours the attacking team. Nedved cutting in with Gullit and van Basten waiting at the other end is as straight as it could get, unless your defenders decide to go AWOL.
 
A lot depends on our players being able to delay attacks until we drop deeper into a well organised 352 shape.

This is where my advantage lies. I really don't see you delaying anything once I get the ball. Baresi, Redondo and Desailly are no mugs on the ball and a short pass would reach Nedvd far quickly for Joya to track back. Either Nedved running in from wide or one-two with Gullit to attack through the middle, they are far quicker than your DM's.

Same with Cafu/Savicevic on the other wing. Presence of Desailly on that side provides the defensive cover for Cafu to support the attack. He is intelligent enough not to go all gung-ho here.
 
Balu's strikeforce is phenomenal, but ultimately feel his team is too top-heavy and Matosas and Maldini will be over-exposed and likely to be picked off on the counter.
 
Would anyone prefer the following line-up for our team?

Guttmann%27s-legacy-formation-tactics.png
 
Tbh, is that even a prime Zizinho? From what I can read, Zizinho's peak was around 1950's WC. When he was in Sao Paolo he was about 38yo and just played one season under Guttmann.

It does add more bodies in the defence, but I think the proposed formation weakens you considerably in the middle and attack.
 
Tbh, is that even a prime Zizinho? From what I can read, Zizinho's peak was around 1950's WC. When he was in Sao Paolo he was about 38yo and just played one season under Guttmann.
He played a brilliant season under Guttmann though, had lots of praise for the manager and even stated that he learned a lot from him. It was just an idea, wouldn't have changed the result of this game.
 
Capello does not even need another reinforcement. He could actually pick someone like Thuram
 
He played a brilliant season under Guttmann though, had lots of praise for the manager and even stated that he learned a lot from him. It was just an idea, wouldn't have changed the result of this game.

I can understand your original lineup but, I think if you had started like this, the votes may have turned out different. Then bring in the top guns for a final push for a win at the end.

Though I really love the concept of your team. The football will definitely be beautiful!

And a personal quirk of mine is the name Zoltan. Reminiscent of a super hero/villain stuff. His parents deserve some kudos for that. Love that name! If and when I have kids, I would try to give them a similar name :lol:
 
He played a brilliant season under Guttmann though, had lots of praise for the manager and even stated that he learned a lot from him. It was just an idea, wouldn't have changed the result of this game.

I don't see why Zizinho wouldn't be fine now when he was in the last game. I'm inclined to say you need Coluna more than Zizinho in terms of the midfield there. You also very clearly laid out the value of Joya earlier: taking an entire Paolo Maldini out of the equation by not letting him tuck in much. You would be tighter, but he would be far more comfortable. I suppose the point with Zizinho over Coluna would be that he could peel wide if that was proving problematic.

Not bad, but I have a feeling your best bet in this game in real life would be to ride your luck at the back and hope to fire on all cylinders upfront. Tricky, obviously, but it has always beeen worse teams trying it.
 
Balu is easily my favorite team in the draft, so flexible and entertaining. EAP deserves this win though, monstrous team he created.
 
Capello does not even need another reinforcement. He could actually pick someone like Thuram

Buffon-Rijkaard-Thuram are the three options really, and he doesn't really need any of them. I suppose the oppo will determine which one it is.

And a personal quirk of mine is the name Zoltan. Reminiscent of a super hero/villain stuff. His parents deserve some kudos for that. Love that name! If and when I have kids, I would try to give them a similar name :lol:

I would love to be a fly on the wall when you fly it past the missus. IIRCC Zoltan was a doberman from hell in a very poor 80s film, wasn't it? It does sound cool though, agreed.

Was thinking of a radical change, if I get through this match...

Dream-Team-formation-tactics.png

That's one of the most spastic ideas I've seen in them drafts, and there have been some shocking howlers. Yeah, this would probably be it.
 
I would love to be a fly on the wall when you fly it past the missus. IIRCC Zoltan was a doberman from hell in a very poor 80s film, wasn't it? It does sound cool though, agreed.

That's one of the most spastic ideas I've seen in them drafts, and there have been some shocking howlers. Yeah, this would probably be it.

Nickname, at least. That doesn't need missus approval. I would Zoltan when young and Zoltar when he gets more respect.

That's why the dream team will stay there, my dreams :lol:
 
Couldn't you do something like that for this game?
 
Couldn't you do something like that for this game?

:lol:

I'm not sure which would be more fun, him breaking it to the missus that their firstborn will be called Zoltan after some random footballer from the 50s, or explaining to Capello the infinite wisdom of that lineup in a Capello homage side.
 
Capello's team is getting way over-rated here, and so is he as a manager. I doubt his team will be able to overcome his negativity to score any goals at all.

It is absurd that the score is 12-2. Too much nostalgia due to the Serie A highlights in the 90s
 
BTW where do people rate Van Basten in comparison to Eusebio and Puskas?

I think the former duo is really up there fighting for the best of all time and van Basten is in the tier just below that(Said in the least negative way possible). I think Gullit is incredibly underrated however, probably due to his knee injury in 89-90 after which he never really re-reached that incredible peak. Prior to that though he was absolutely challenging van Basten's and Rijkaards best peaks and the individual awards shows it too.

Gullit winning the Ballon in 87, coming second in 88 and the World Player of the year in 87 and 89, the Onze d'silver in 88 and 89. But somehow it seems like people remember the post-injury Gullit in the early 90's instead and he's not really given the credit he deserves. I think however you rate Rijkaard and van Basten, Gullit is in the same stratosphere too.

Even if I think Gullit and van Basten together stole some awards which Rijkaard deserved, who pretty much didn't win an individual award, except coming third after his dutch companions in the Ballon race.
 
Capello's team is getting way over-rated here, and so is he as a manager. I doubt his team will be able to overcome his negativity to score any goals at all.

It is absurd that the score is 12-2. Too much nostalgia due to the Serie A highlights in the 90s
Who is overrated on that team? Baresi? Cafu? Maldini? Redondo?
 
I think the former duo is really up there fighting for the best of all time and van Basten is in the tier just below that(Said in the least negative way possible). I think Gullit is incredibly underrated however, probably due to his knee injury in 89-90 after which he never really re-reached that incredible peak. Prior to that though he was absolutely challenging van Basten's and Rijkaards best peaks and the individual awards shows it too.

Gullit winning the Ballon in 87, coming second in 88 and the World Player of the year in 87 and 89, the Onze d'silver in 88 and 89. But somehow it seems like people remember the post-injury Gullit in the early 90's instead and he's not really given the credit he deserves. I think however you rate Rijkaard and van Basten, Gullit is in the same stratosphere too.

Even if I think Gullit and van Basten together stole some awards which Rijkaard deserved, who pretty much didn't win an individual award, except coming third after his dutch companions in the Ballon race.

Rijkaard's case is same as Xavi playing second fiddle to Iniesta and Messi. In longer run, Xavi will be rated more than Iniesta IMO.

I personally rate Van Basten pretty close to Ronaldo (Brazilian one) and the latter is considered in same league as Eusbeio and Puskas by many so I won't say that he is not even in their tier.