Liverpool 2024-25 | Inevitably winning the quadruple

First of all, I don't believe that a player with Mac Allister's physical profile, and overall skillset, can ever be the "most complete" #8 on the planet, especially in an era when there's an abundance of elite talent in that position. It's insulting to the likes of Bellingham, Camavinga, Valverde, Pedri, Gavi, de Jong, Rice, Rodri, Guimaraes, Mainoo, Reijnders, Locatelli, Caicedo, Zubimendi, Neves, Zaire-Emery, etc.
I mean, how much have you actually seen most of those guys play? As a Madridista I can tell you that Mac Allister is a way better player than Camavinga, Gavi or Zubimendi. As an italian I can tell you that Locatelli and Reijnders aren't worthy of carrying his jock strap. Mainoo and Zaire-Emery have to be a joke here. Seriously

As for Rice, Pedri, De Jong, Guimaraes, Fede and Caicedo, they're on Mac Allister's level, but the latter is currently the most impactful and best performing
 
First of all, I don't believe that a player with Mac Allister's physical profile, and overall skillset, can ever be the "most complete" #8 on the planet, especially in an era when there's an abundance of elite talent in that position. It's insulting to the likes of Bellingham, Camavinga, Valverde, Pedri, Gavi, de Jong, Rice, Rodri, Guimaraes, Mainoo, Reijnders, Locatelli, Caicedo, Zubimendi, Neves, Zaire-Emery, etc.

Secondly, I'm not doubting he's a very good player. But honestly, what does he do not to just a very good level, but to an elite level, that would make him more valuable that the best players in his position?

Does he have pace and power like no one else? Passing range? Carrying? We can keep listing specific traits but I haven't seen anything from him (and yes, I've watched him) that made me think, he's one of the, if not the best at that specific thing.

I actually like players like him. I'm not shitting on him. I just find it deceptive when good players get overestimated beyond even superior profiles in the same position.

In my opinion, as I've mentioned already he's a jack of all trades, but a master of none. On top of that, he seems to have the tenacity and mentality of someone like Martínez at United, and he takes on a lot of responsibility for Liverpool...but at the same time, trust me, there's a reason he cost only 30m, and that's with Brighton being the selling club, the club who have been fleecing Chelsea for fun recently.

There's also a reason someone like Bellingham was heavily prioritized over him by Liverpool and they were probably willing to pay around 3 times as much for him compared to Mac Allister.
What a baffling post. Some of those players you're comparing him to have done absolutely nothing to be "insulted" by any comparison with Mac Allister - quite the opposite in fact.

R.e. the fee paid. It was a release clause so how are Brighton going to fleece anyone for him? He would have cost a lot more without that clause.
 
I mean, how much have you actually seen most of those guys play? As a Madridista I can tell you that Mac Allister is a way better player than Camavinga, Gavi or Zubimendi. As an italian I can tell you that Locatelli and Reijnders aren't worthy of carrying his jock strap. Mainoo and Zaire-Emery have to be a joke here. Seriously

As for Rice, Pedri, De Jong, Guimaraes, Fede and Caicedo, they're on Mac Allister's level, but the latter is currently the most impactful and best performing
What a baffling post. Some of those players you're comparing him to have done absolutely nothing to be "insulted" by any comparison with Mac Allister - quite the opposite in fact.

R.e. the fee paid. It was a release clause so how are Brighton going to fleece anyone for him? He would have cost a lot more without that clause.

I'm still not sure what's Mac Allister elite at? This discussion is once again shaping up to be one where people evaluate players not based on profile, but form and role in their respective teams.

"Way better player than Camavinga" That's a criminal statement for me.
 
First of all, I don't believe that a player with Mac Allister's physical profile, and overall skillset, can ever be the "most complete" #8 on the planet, especially in an era when there's an abundance of elite talent in that position. It's insulting to the likes of Bellingham, Camavinga, Valverde, Pedri, Gavi, de Jong, Rice, Rodri, Guimaraes, Mainoo, Reijnders, Locatelli, Caicedo, Zubimendi, Neves, Zaire-Emery, etc.

Secondly, I'm not doubting he's a very good player. But honestly, what does he do not to just a very good level, but to an elite level, that would make him more valuable that the best players in his position?

Does he have pace and power like no one else? Passing range? Carrying? We can keep listing specific traits but I haven't seen anything from him (and yes, I've watched him) that made me think, he's one of the, if not the best at that specific thing.

I actually like players like him. I'm not shitting on him. I just find it deceptive when good players get overestimated beyond even superior profiles in the same position.

In my opinion, as I've mentioned already he's a jack of all trades, but a master of none. On top of that, he seems to have the tenacity and mentality of someone like Martínez at United, and he takes on a lot of responsibility for Liverpool...but at the same time, trust me, there's a reason he cost only 30m, and that's with Brighton being the selling club, the club who have been fleecing Chelsea for fun recently.

There's also a reason someone like Bellingham was heavily prioritized over him by Liverpool and they were probably willing to pay around 3 times as much for him compared to Mac Allister.

The first thing it's that he is not "just" an 8, he is just a midfielder that can do a lot and in your own words at a high level, that alone it's Elite per se. FULL STOP.

On another post you've talked about him just being in form when he is on a great level since his Brighton days.
A player that had to enter a NT squad in the middle of a WC and he delivered instantly and secure his place since them like if doing that it's an easy task. And at the same time you mentioned Mainoo above him, a kid whom just started? jesus man at least try to be more coherent in what in form actually means. He played with different coaches, systems, roles in Brighton and he always delivered, with his mates praising him always and ending being the Coach's player. Then he is transfered to Liverpool and he ends having the exact same consideration and the new Staff repeats the same respect. I Guess the lad might have sthg more than pure form in a couple of recent games.

I do not play the ranking games with any player (not even with genius ones) since any Elite player in the world on any period will have its traits and lack in others, so the Bellingham it's 10 times Valverde, or silly stuff like that, it's just not for me. Every player has its assets and aspects to improve or that they would never had, that doesn't make them not Elite if they actually perfom at the highest level in their teams and Leagues, a thing Macca clearly does.

So basicly the problem it's that he doesn't have pace and that he doesn't ran all over the pitch. He has other assets and BTW it's not FIFA and their cards, his brain and reading of the game it's Elite as they come too. Finally questioning his passing range? and later claiming that you know the lad's game, WTF Rojo, come on.

PD: I've just realize you've said "insulting", damn you are quite a character
 
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There's a still a long way to go in this league. Trip up against Forest and things could get interesting again.
 
First of all, I don't believe that a player with Mac Allister's physical profile, and overall skillset, can ever be the "most complete" #8 on the planet, especially in an era when there's an abundance of elite talent in that position. It's insulting to the likes of Bellingham, Camavinga, Valverde, Pedri, Gavi, de Jong, Rice, Rodri, Guimaraes, Mainoo, Reijnders, Locatelli, Caicedo, Zubimendi, Neves, Zaire-Emery, etc.

Secondly, I'm not doubting he's a very good player. But honestly, what does he do not to just a very good level, but to an elite level, that would make him more valuable that the best players in his position?

Does he have pace and power like no one else? Passing range? Carrying? We can keep listing specific traits but I haven't seen anything from him (and yes, I've watched him) that made me think, he's one of the, if not the best at that specific thing.

I actually like players like him. I'm not shitting on him. I just find it deceptive when good players get overestimated beyond even superior profiles in the same position.

In my opinion, as I've mentioned already he's a jack of all trades, but a master of none. On top of that, he seems to have the tenacity and mentality of someone like Martínez at United, and he takes on a lot of responsibility for Liverpool...but at the same time, trust me, there's a reason he cost only 30m, and that's with Brighton being the selling club, the club who have been fleecing Chelsea for fun recently.

There's also a reason someone like Bellingham was heavily prioritized over him by Liverpool and they were probably willing to pay around 3 times as much for him compared to Mac Allister.

Alot of them players you've mentioned are 9/10 in some attributes but also 2/3 in others whilst McAllister is probably an 8 across the board hence the 'most complete midfielder' tag.
 
The issue is there is nobody chasing them. I fully expect Arsenal to drop more points, they're not great.
Nail on head, Arsenal under Arteta will drop more silly points and he'll moan about it afterwards.

Forest, Chelsea will be delighted to finish top 4 but City will likely claim 4th at least now.
 
Playing football

Yeah, because you have no idea what you're talking about :lol:

Camavinga's physical profile alone makes him a more valuable #8 than Mac Allister will ever be, and that's without going into everything else when comparing them

Just like how Yoro's physical profile is already so superior to Martínez's that you don't even need to go further when evaluating them
 
Camavinga's physical profile alone makes him a more valuable #8 than Mac Allister will ever be, and that's without going into everything else when comparing them
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously, stop. Actually watch them play. There's a reason Camavinga is being shunted to LB and we're starting Ceballos in midfield instead. He has a lot of qualities but he's far from being a top midfielder yet
 
Camavinga's physical profile alone makes him a more valuable #8 than Mac Allister will ever be
Of course it doesn't. The two clubs played against eachother very recently. Liverpool battered them. They had 63% of the ball. Mac Allister even scored. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean you're right.
 
Of course it doesn't. The two clubs played against eachother very recently. Liverpool battered them. They had 63% of the ball. Mac Allister even scored. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean you're right.

So Mac Allister is the better player because Liverpool beat Real Madrid a few months ago and he also scored? That's your reasoning?
 
First of all, I don't believe that a player with Mac Allister's physical profile, and overall skillset, can ever be the "most complete" #8 on the planet, especially in an era when there's an abundance of elite talent in that position. It's insulting to the likes of Bellingham, Camavinga, Valverde, Pedri, Gavi, de Jong, Rice, Rodri, Guimaraes, Mainoo, Reijnders, Locatelli, Caicedo, Zubimendi, Neves, Zaire-Emery, etc.

Secondly, I'm not doubting he's a very good player. But honestly, what does he do not to just a very good level, but to an elite level, that would make him more valuable that the best players in his position?

Does he have pace and power like no one else? Passing range? Carrying? We can keep listing specific traits but I haven't seen anything from him (and yes, I've watched him) that made me think, he's one of the, if not the best at that specific thing.

I actually like players like him. I'm not shitting on him. I just find it deceptive when good players get overestimated beyond even superior profiles in the same position.

In my opinion, as I've mentioned already he's a jack of all trades, but a master of none. On top of that, he seems to have the tenacity and mentality of someone like Martínez at United, and he takes on a lot of responsibility for Liverpool...but at the same time, trust me, there's a reason he cost only 30m, and that's with Brighton being the selling club, the club who have been fleecing Chelsea for fun recently.

There's also a reason someone like Bellingham was heavily prioritized over him by Liverpool and they were probably willing to pay around 3 times as much for him compared to Mac Allister.
Because he was smart enough to get a release clause in his last contract extension and Brighton was forced to accept it otherwise he would have moved on for free.
 
I can't be bothered. You win.

You didn't say anything about either Mac Allister of Camavinga. Just told me the former was class and could do anything. It's funny that I actually said something similar, although he definitely cannot do anything (how can a player with below average pace and power be "complete" and do everything to an elite level?), and it would also depend on what "class" exactly means for you.

Do you think bringing up the most recent game between their two respective teams is a good argument in the favour of either player, in any sort of discussion that tries to compare two players and evaluate their profiles? Because by using solely that thought process, you can probably make some weird claims about two players just based on matches played out in the last 2 weeks. For example, do all those teams that convincingly beat City in the last 2 months, have mostly better players in most positions, when compared to the players who play the same positions for City?

:lol: Can't believe there's still people falling for his insane wumming posts. The guy hasn't got a single clue about football, it's not even funny anymore.

It's funny, because every single conversation I remember having with you on here never went anywhere, because of things like you seemingly not knowing what the difference is between "profile" and "ability".
 
Because he was smart enough to get a release clause in his last contract extension and Brighton was forced to accept it otherwise he would have moved on for free.

That's fair then, I didn't remember he had a release clause. He's still nowhere near a £70-80m player for me, though. More like a £40-50m player. A well-rounded versatile player, with a seemingly excellent mental profile and work-rate, who does most things to a good enough level that they can play for a top team, but I'd say he clearly doesn't have anything in his locker would distinguish him from that range and put him alongside the £70m+ level of talents.
 
It's funny, because every single conversation I remember having with you on here never went anywhere, because of things like you seemingly not knowing what the difference is between "profile" and "ability".
Conversations not going anywhere seems to be a trend in this thread too with everyone telling you you're talking rubbish.
Everyone is wrong and should bow to your football knowledge aka "Rashford=Mbappé", "Holjund is a great striker", "Odegaard is not a creative player", and probably more shite i thankfully did not lay my eyes on. Keep them coming ! :)
 
I mean, how much have you actually seen most of those guys play? As a Madridista I can tell you that Mac Allister is a way better player than Camavinga, Gavi or Zubimendi. As an italian I can tell you that Locatelli and Reijnders aren't worthy of carrying his jock strap. Mainoo and Zaire-Emery have to be a joke here. Seriously

As for Rice, Pedri, De Jong, Guimaraes, Fede and Caicedo, they're on Mac Allister's level, but the latter is currently the most impactful and best performing
I cannot wrap my head around how you are judging these players, how you came up with those 2 groups.
 
Conversations not going anywhere seems to be a trend in this thread too with everyone telling you you're talking rubbish.
Everyone is wrong and should bow to your football knowledge aka "Rashford=Mbappé", "Holjund is a great striker", "Odegaard is not a creative player", and probably more shite i thankfully did not lay my eyes on. Keep them coming ! :)

What I basically said back in June/July: Rashford is basically an inferior version but similar profile to Mbappé, who also had world class potential, but his development deteriorated at the talent graveyard United currently are, and we only managed to get 3 very good seasons out of him in struggling teams. He wasn't gonna become the best player in the world like Mbappe has been in recent years, but he's a homegrown 30 G/A inside forward that United somehow managed to ruin.

But since international football is lagging like 15 years behind club football tactically and in intensity, and since England captain Harry Kane is the best possible striker for runner type wingers in the last decade, England should've easily taken advantage of this and used Rashford as a deadly inside forward which would've been a priceless weapon for them at international level.

Your takeaway from dozens of my posts detailing this, so that I don't get misunderstood by posters like you, is still "Rashford=Mbappé"...? Your reading comprehension is in the gutter.

And yeah, Hojlund is a great striker and Odegaard can only dream of performances like Bruno at Anfield 2 days ago.

PS: Btw what happened in the Euros? Exactly what I posted in many threads preceding it. Southgate ignored much better stylistic fits for that left wing position in Rashford, Sterling, Gordon, Grealish, and even Bowen or Palmer, and just stuck Foden there, who ghosted through the whole tournament as a result. Anyone with an ounce of football knowledge could've seen it coming but my posts were laughed at and dismissed with surface-level casual takes like "Foden is the best player/talent in England/ the PL" :lol:
 
What I basically said back in June/July: Rashford is basically an inferior version but similar profile to Mbappé, who also had world class potential, but his development deteriorated at the talent graveyard United currently are, and we only managed to get 3 very good seasons out of him in struggling teams. He wasn't gonna become the best player in the world like Mbappe has been in recent years, but he's a homegrown 30 G/A inside forward that United somehow managed to ruin.

But since international football is lagging like 15 years behind club football tactically and in intensity, and since England captain Harry Kane is the best possible striker for runner type wingers in the last decade, England should've easily taken advantage of this and used Rashford as a deadly inside forward which would've been a priceless weapon for them at international level.

Your takeaway from dozens of my posts detailing this, so that I don't get misunderstood by posters like you, is still "Rashford=Mbappé"...? Your reading comprehension is in the gutter.

And yeah, Hojlund is a great striker and Odegaard can only dream of performances like Bruno at Anfield 2 days ago.

PS: Btw what happened in the Euros? Exactly what I posted in many threads preceding it. Southgate ignored much better stylistic fits for that left wing position in Rashford, Sterling, Gordon, Grealish, and even Bowen or Palmer, and just stuck Foden there, who ghosted through the whole tournament as a result. Anyone with an ounce of football knowledge could've seen it coming but my posts were laughed at and dismissed with surface-level casual takes like "Foden is the best player/talent in England/ the PL" :lol:
I'm sure this is a great post full of wisdom. Definitely not reading it but carry on. Fool me once...
 
That's fair then, I didn't remember he had a release clause. He's still nowhere near a £70-80m player for me, though. More like a £40-50m player. A well-rounded versatile player, with a seemingly excellent mental profile and work-rate, who does most things to a good enough level that they can play for a top team, but I'd say he clearly doesn't have anything in his locker would distinguish him from that range and put him alongside the £70m+ level of talents.

So now we went from the initial High level on everything to Good enough level.
Macca also is the flavour of the day (not even month) because of his form, with apparently not good enough carreer on his shoulder...yet Kobbie it's already a proven player.
We went from ignoring lots of traits where he is elite: Passing, Ball retention, Intelligence (on everything) and more recently even defensive tasks, that everyone mentioned...to ignore those and repeat post after post "in what he is great".
And you find "insulting" that someone might preffer him over many of the players you've mentioned, while the lad it's a Liverpool main player, World Cup and Copa America winner being vital in all of those teams since years, yet he isn't Elite nor proven enough.
With Macca It is rare to have someone who is so skill and composed on the ball, making almost always the right decision on every aspect (defensivly, offensivly, controlling tempo, etc), while at the same time being so agressive, so strong mentally without being chaotic, that in a nutshell? it's Elite level and quite rare.

I tell you sthg, if you've just said, well he ain't muy Cup of tea, it's alright, more than all right; but when you treat others preffering him above some of your choices "as insulting" and you are the only one "seeing it", come on...it's not the first time you act in such way.


PD: as aside note, nope, Mac Allister winning or playing in great form in big matches, like in a WC Final, against Madrid, against Manchester (even in Brighton), City or you named it...it's not as simply as "ok he is way better than his rivals in a similar role", YET him even like in this last match, that was left quite alone with many mates not being in their best self, still making Liverpool not loosing their shape, being intelligent enough to hold them, or like against Madrid making very clear which of the two teams had more brains, it's quite a trademark of his game and MORE than that a tendency: the man tends to be great against the biggest rivals or ocassions, that's also quite Elite.
And BTW It's not the goals, nor the assists, those can be consequences of his perfomance. The best thing with him it's that he plays like if he is watching from the stands, almost always what the game demands at a certain point, succeeding or not (he mostly does it) and it's very very noticeable. Not few times he does that, in great style too, he has his great quote of flair even stealing balls.
That game in particular that was mentioned against Madrid, if sthg was showed, it's how Madrid lacked the composure he gave to Liverpool and he is not precisly surrounded by Messi, Modric, there, on contrair he has players that are more incline to rock and roll than anything, that makes him even better in what he does, to impose in such way when he is at his best.

PD2: Pun intended, the in your words justified 70 million + (at this point in his carreer, or better said two years ago) forward talent from United, played in his pocket last match too and he is quite a much bigger and powerful fella than him, yet Macca it's quite smart and even strong to deal with him.


Anyway, sorry Rojo for the long post and everyone for the derrail
 
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I cannot wrap my head around how you are judging these players, how you came up with those 2 groups.
Group 1: players who are very clearly, visibly worse players than Mac Allister

Group 2: players who are at roughly the same level(aka, the best midfielders in the world)

Thought it was pretty clear?
 
Group 1: players who are very clearly, visibly worse players than Mac Allister

Group 2: players who are at roughly the same level(aka, the best midfielders in the world)

Thought it was pretty clear?
But it's a mess, for example how is rice as good as him but Camavinga is "clearly worse"?
 
But it's a mess, for example how is rice as good as him but Camavinga is "clearly worse"?
...uh? Have you seen them play? Fair enough if you disagree about Rice, but why do you bring up Camavinga? You realize that Dani Ceballos is currently playing ahead of him in midfield? Because he's actually more reliable?
 
...uh? Have you seen them play? Fair enough if you disagree about Rice, but why do you bring up Camavinga? You realize that Dani Ceballos is currently playing ahead of him in midfield? Because he's actually more reliable?
I know hes not in the first 11, but this is RM there is competition and its tough. He would make the first 11 of basically any team outside of City just because they have Rodri,
 
I know hes not in the first 11, but this is RM there is competition and its tough. He would make the first 11 of basically any team outside of City just because they have Rodri,
No he wouldn't. He really really wouldn't. He turned 22 like a minute ago, he's still extremely green and his form comes and goes. He's got a ton of potential and on a good day he's fantastic, but he's just as likely to be unreliable if not terrible. He's got a long way to go before he gets to a level were he'd "start for any team outside City". Again, right now he's behind Dani Ceballos, not Rodri
 
I know hes not in the first 11, but this is RM there is competition and its tough. He would make the first 11 of basically any team outside of City just because they have Rodri,
I haven't watched Real Madrid enough lately to judge, but if he's behind Ceballos on merit, that's pretty damning surely regardless of what club he's at?

Not like it's peak Kroos and Modric keeping him out.
 
No he wouldn't. He really really wouldn't. He turned 22 like a minute ago, he's still extremely green and his form comes and goes. He's got a ton of potential and on a good day he's fantastic, but he's just as likely to be unreliable if not terrible. He's got a long way to go before he gets to a level were he'd "start for any team outside City". Again, right now he's behind Dani Ceballos, not Rodri

The ages in the Real Madrid team are fecking great, I know it involves having troubles due to them being young under the biggest spotlight, yet what Madrid did in a couple of years, getting so much young talent and already winning a lot with them it's such a great work.
I feel a bit sorry about Tchouameni as a midfielder, he seems to have lost his mojo, he still is very young, but at moments it looks like he has hit some point of no return in terms of him being seeing as promising as he was seen at the beggining as amid, maybe he turn the wave as a CB, who knoes, he still has time, not sure how much in Madrid per se. I hope Cammavinga does not follow those steps, thought I have a sensation, that I might be wrong, that this last lad looks like even on his worst chaotic days, he plays with his heart on his sleeve.

PD1: Fede Valverde for me at moemnts it's quite underapreciatted, him and Ugarte for Uruguay it's such a combative and talented midfield.
PD2: ...speaking of uruguayans I always loved Nandez too (the feisty handsome version of Rooney as a destroyer), already in Arabia it's a pity, he could have had a a more recognizable carreer in my view, thought I dunno know how he played in Cagliari, I lost track of him those years bar the NT.