Liverpool 2024-25 | Inevitably winning the quadruple

giorno said:
They're 6 points better off and the advanced numbers point to an even starker difference

Even if it's literally just down to Salah playing in god-mode, they've built enough of a cushion now. If he keeps it up for another month or so, they'll be virtually guaranteed to finish above 90 points, which would put the title out of reach for anyone else

Basically, hope they get an injury crisis worse than last season

As for the quality of players...Alisson, TAA, Konate, VVD, Mac Allister, Salah and Diaz would all start/compete for a starting spot on whatever iteration of City you care to mention, on the basis of individual quality. Gravenberch is the best midfielder in the PL - possibly the world, atm(and we're talking about the last crown jewel to come out the Ajax academy here), Szoboszlai was one of the hottest prospects in europe, Jota was a key contributor to their team through the past several seasons including 21/22

They have backups who are solid backup quality. Which isn't at all strange. City was winning titles with Zinchenko and Delph starting games, and win a treble with Ake, Stones and Akanji
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I don't think we really disagree. Liverpool were very good last season, on a 89 point pace through 30 matches until the wheels came off in the end! It is not really a knock to say that they are just the same team. This is basically the same team but with a remarkable health record for key players - the group of Salah, Diaz, VVD, Trent, Robertson, Gravenberch, Szoboslai, MacAllister, and Gakpo have collectively missed a total of one match due to injury all season - and Salah playing on God mode. I agree they have many good players, although its really Salah, TAA, and VVD that are the true difference makers. But sides (and the individual players within them) always look better than they really are when your first XI stays healthy all season and when you have one transcendental performer that is lifting you in unprecedented ways. Its always a mistake to judge players and sides too quickly when everything is going right for them, just as it is a mistake to judge them too quickly when everything is going wrong.

I think the closest analogue is 12-13 United - another side that walked the league behind an incredible season from a forward while all of their main competitors had down years. They ended up on 89 points and could easily have gone into the mid 90s if they hadn't locked up the league early (they dropped a lot of points at the end of the year when the league was already won). But nobody ever talks about them among Fergie's best sides and for good reason. This year's Liverpool is the same. Everything is going right for them and wrong for their main competitors, they will likely walk the league barring some kind of injury implosion, but they are not nearly as good as Klopp's vintage teams.
 
Just give them the title already.

Seems like everything is going their way. Even god disrupted the weather so they could have a week off while everyone had to play a game (Everton-Pool postponed).
 
Powderfinger said:
I agree they have many good players, although its really Salah, TAA, and VVD that are the true difference makers.
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I would say Gravenberch would be a bigger loss than Trent right now, and especially when Bradley is fit again.

As for Salah God mode, Liverpool are playing very well all over, this is giving Salah a lot of space in games and a lot of chances, his finishing was actually quite poor against West Ham, should have had at least a hat trick. But ya, he's benefiting from a team that is firing right through it and then doing what Salah does.
 
There's not even a match day thread for Sunday. Zero excitement for the match.
 
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So many Pool players are having their best season in years. It's all gelling for them....and they are staying relatively healthy to boot. I am sure Slot will get the plaudits in the end but his most genius move is keeping things largely as Klopp left it.
 
Tbf you guys always fear a drubbing at Anfield but it's never as bad. Minus the 7-0 which was an outlier. I remember the 0-0 too which had the same doom and gloom.
 
ArtetasHair said:
Tbf you guys always fear a drubbing at Anfield but it's never as bad. Minus the 7-0 which was an outlier. I remember the 0-0 too which had the same doom and gloom.
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So what you're saying is, on average it should be 3.5-0.
 
ArtetasHair said:
Tbf you guys always fear a drubbing at Anfield but it's never as bad. Minus the 7-0 which was an outlier. I remember the 0-0 too which had the same doom and gloom.
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They got cocky and were expecting to put 7 past us again. You could feel the crowd and players get restless already after about 10 minutes. I still hope for this kind of complacency leading to some silly backpass or a risky turnover in their own half. If they've learned from that 0-0, it'll be ugly.
 
Jesse Lingard is our only goalscorer at Anfield in 10 matches. Liverpool have scored 23 in the last 10 Old Trafford matches.

Liverpool's top scorer this season has scored quadruple the goals as our top scorer.

We haven't scored in our last 3 matches. Liverpool have scored 14 in their last 3 matches.

But football can be a funny game.
 
Ole'sgunnarwin said:
Jesse Lingard is our only goalscorer at Anfield in 10 matches. Liverpool have scored 23 in the last 10 Old Trafford matches.

Liverpool's top scorer this season has scored quadruple the goals as our top scorer.

We haven't scored in our last 3 matches. Liverpool have scored 14 in their last 3 matches.

But football can be a funny game.
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Ssssoooo ...you're saying there is a chance?
 
Ole'sgunnarwin said:
Jesse Lingard is our only goalscorer at Anfield in 10 matches. Liverpool have scored 23 in the last 10 Old Trafford matches.

Liverpool's top scorer this season has scored quadruple the goals as our top scorer.

We haven't scored in our last 3 matches. Liverpool have scored 14 in their last 3 matches.

But football can be a funny game.
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The amount of yellow cards shown to Mo Salah for celebrating after scoring against us is higher than the amount of goals we’ve scored at Anfield since 2016.
 
Considering we had put on a better show at Arsenal, I think it will not be carnage at Anfield. We'll be okay but still lose by a goal or 2. Dont see us scoring
 
If there's no matchday thread, did the game even happen ? I think it will be an ugly one, minimum 4 goals for Liverpool.
We need a Trent farewell Instagram post to cause trouble in the ranks.
 
awop said:
If there's no matchday thread, did the game even happen ? I think it will be an ugly one, minimum 4 goals for Liverpool.
We need a Trent farewell Instagram post to cause trouble in the ranks.
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There’s always a next matchday thread leading up to a game. Not for this one
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
Yes the way NUFC sliced through us, Liverpool are gonna kill us in first 5 minutes
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We have Ugarte back and Eriksen will be nowhere near the starting 11. Things got better as soon as he made the midfield switch against Newcastle, and even then, if our defenders could head the fecking ball, we might have stayed in the game.

We shown we can stay in games against good teams like city and Arsenal, and even show far better control than under ETH, but obviously we need to avoid conceding from headers as we always struggle when chasing and head seem to drop.

I’m probably just trying to cope but I think we might get something out of these next couple games.
 
Arsenal and Chelsea dropping points again.

God this is the most obvious PL champion elect ever and its only the 5th of Jan.
 
Meh. Diaz is mediocre, mildly put, so is Darwin. Gakpo is alright but nothing special. When Salah leaves they'll be reduced to size.
 
Slot has done a great job with introducing some control and pausa to this Liverpool squad, but it cannot be understated IMO how much it helps them that they have 4 all-timers carrying them that can all salvage/win games on their own at any point, and how much they've been helped by the referees this season too, whereas IMO Arsenal have been fecked over way too many times already.

I genuinely think Arsenal are the better team, based on the games I've watched from both teams this season. However, Saka's injury gives Liverpool a real chance to take the league IMO. Otherwise I'd still consider Arsenal slight favorites despite the points gap.

I also think United were much more comfortable playing against Liverpool or City at their grounds compared to Arsenal at the Emirates. I've seen many teams this season, United included, having troubles playing out of their own halves vs Arsenal, because their high pressing is so well-organized, and because their physical and athletic levels are the best in the league IMO. I cannot say the same for Liverpool. For me, it seems like they have a makeshift midfield of three #8s that are overperforming right now. Gravenberch isn't a #6 for me, Mac Allister does everything to a high level but isn't really elite at anything, and Szoboszlai is a good hard worker and tidy player but he isn't among the best #10s in the world either IMO.

I think losing each player from the Salah-van Dijk-Trent-Alisson quartet will be a massive blow for them, because they're almost impossible to replace IMO. Maybe Liverpool's scouts can find the future all timer talents, but beating out 10 other big clubs for their signatures will be extremely difficult, both due to financial limits, sporting reasons, and geographical reasons too. We've seen it with Yoro. He was their intended van Dijk heir but even Madrid couldn't get him, which is a rare occurrence.

That's where I fear for Slot (not really, but you know what I mean). He can be one of the best managers in the world but if Liverpool aren't going to be able replace their best players with similar quality, that will mean that expectations will have to be tempered in the future around him, even if they win one of the two major trophies this season.

In my opinion, not backing him in the summer with 2-3 quality signings was already a huge red flag from FSG's part, but their season so far has obviously gone so well that it's not anywhere near the center of discussion...but when the bad times come, be it one or a few bad seasons, or just a bad run of form, questions will be asked IMO. Imagine if they managed to sign Zubimendi and one or two additional players of similar quality. They'd be much better set for the next 3-5 years already.
 
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I still can't see how they don't win the title. They are far out in front and it would take a couple of draws/defeats and Arsenal (or City had they not had that collapse) going on a red hot run to stop them. Arsenal are too risk adverse though when they probably need to go for broke.

Saying that this Liverpool side aren't as strong as the 2019-20 one, TAA and Robertson are on the decline and today was a template on how to stop them.

Losing Salah would be a big blow. It feels like that RVP season, he can elevate everyone's performance (like Jota and Diaz) and when he's not there they lose their spark.
 
Rojofiam said:
Slot has done a great job with introducing some control and pausa to this Liverpool squad, but it cannot be understated IMO how much it helps them that they have 4 all-timers carrying them that can all salvage/win games on their own at any point, and how much they've been helped by the referees this season too, whereas IMO Arsenal have been fecked over way too many times already.

I genuinely think Arsenal are the better team, based on the games I've watched from both teams this season. However, Saka's injury gives Liverpool a real chance to take the league IMO. Otherwise I'd still consider Arsenal slight favorites despite the points gap.

I also think United were much more comfortable playing against Liverpool or City at their grounds compared to Arsenal at the Emirates. I've seen many teams this season, United included, having troubles playing out of their own halves vs Arsenal, because their high pressing is so well-organized, and because their physical and athletic levels are the best in the league IMO. I cannot say the same for Liverpool. For me, it seems like they have a makeshift midfield of three #8s that are overperforming right now. Gravenberch isn't a #6 for me, Mac Allister does everything to a high level but isn't really elite at anything, and Szoboszlai is a good hard worker and tidy player but he isn't among the best #10s in the world either IMO.

I think losing each player from the Salah-van Dijk-Trent-Alisson quartet will be a massive blow for them, because they're almost impossible to replace IMO. Maybe Liverpool's scouts can find the future all timer talents, but beating out 10 other big clubs for their signatures will be extremely difficult, both due to financial limits, sporting reasons, and geographical reasons too. We've seen it with Yoro. He was their intended van Dijk heir but even Madrid couldn't get him, which is a rare occurrence.

That's where I fear for Slot (not really, but you know what I mean). He can be one of the best managers in the world but Liverpool's inability to replace their best players with similar quality will mean expectations will have to be tempered in the future around him, even if they win one of the two major trophies this season.

In my opinion, not backing him in the summer with 2-3 quality signings was already a huge red flag from FSG's part, but their season so far has obviously gone so well that it's not anywhere near the center of discussion...but when the bad times come, be it one or a few bad seasons, or just a bad run of form, questions will be asked IMO. Imagine if they managed to sign Zubimendi and one or two additional players of similar quality. They'd be much better set for the next 3-5 years already.
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Mac Allister it's the epithome of Elite as a current polivalent midfielder...for christ sake Rojo. And Grav even if today was really hot and bit cold has been great the whole season.

Back to Macca, thinking of him as a 10 like Riquelme, a 5 like Kante/Mascherano Liverpool, or an 8 like Iniesta it's not real...of course would have some truth in it, yet doing EVERYTHING at a high level for a huge club and a huge NT it's the very definition of Elite.
Today he was the best Liverpool player and normally game after game he is the very best on keeping any team he plays A TEAM, no matter if he had an excellent game or a game working ion the shadows. Him not being Elite it's silly.

PD: Today Trent should have stay in the bench in the second half or play him more in the middle, because there was an autobahn his zone and the main reason United could attack time and again throught his side. And it's not the first tiem and that is whay many told you that right now,e ven if it's better to keep him, Trent ain't precisly as reliable as you make it for Liverpool, he might end being for Real or his new team if he goes.

PD2: Why stating the obviosu that loosing mature, already proven stars on any team is a blow? why woudln't be the case, it sounds like the "well Barca had Messi" yeah...and if anything Pool has quite a great number of players capable of step in and play their part.

What they do not have, it's more clever players aparte from Virgil, Alexis, Salah or at this moment and current form Grav...they are too much of a mix of youngster and oldies with too much rock on roll in them, so lacking any of those cerates issues for them with this more calm Arne style.
In any case in todays game they could have use a more defensive approach in Trent's side and someone with the stamina and urge of Slobo in the mid in the second half to attack and press or Endo to defend in roder to seal the game, they didn't and Man Utd this time never lost its shape even when suffering.
It was really a great match
 
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Fobal said:
Mac Allister it's the epithome of Elite as a current polivalent midfielder...for christ sake Rojo. And Grav even if today was really hot and bit cold has been great the whole season.

Back to Macca, thinking of him as a 10 like Riquelme, a 5 like Kante/Mascherano Liverpool, or an 8 like Iniesta it's not real...of course would have some truth in it, yet doing EVERYTHING at a high level for a huge club and a huge NT it's the very definition of Elite.
Today he was the best Liverpool player and normally game after game he is the very best on keeping any team he plays A TEAM, no matter if he had an excellent game or a game working ion the shadows. Him not being Elite it's silly.

PD: Today Trent should have stay in the bench in the second half or play him more in the middle, because there was an autobahn his zone and the main reason United could attack time and again throught his side. And it's not the first tiem and that is whay many told you that right now,e ven if it's better to keep him, Trent ain't precisly as reliable as you make it for Liverpool, he might end being for Real or his new team if he goes.

PD2: Why stating the obviosu that loosing mature, already proven stars on any team is a blow? why woudln't be the case, it sounds like the "well Barca had Messi" yeah...and if anything Pool has quite a great number of players capable of step in and play their part.

What they do not have, it's more clever players aparte from Virgil, Alexis, Salah or at this moment and current form Grav...they are too much of a mix of youngster and oldies with too much rock on roll in them, so lacking any of those cerates issues for them with this more calm Arne style.
In any case in todays game they could have use a more defensive approach in Trent's side and someone with the stamina and urge of Slobo in the mid in the second half to attack and press or Endo to defend in roder to seal the game, they didn't and Man Utd this time never lost its shape even when suffering.
It was really a great match
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Do you think he's a, let's say, top 10 CM in the world? I don't, that's why I said very good but not elite.
 
Rojofiam said:
Do you think he's a, let's say, top 10 CM in the world? I don't, that's why I said very good but not elite.
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Haven't really thought about it, but doubt I could count 10 better right now
 
Rojofiam said:
But that's just based on form, not ability, isn't it?

What part or parts of his skillset make him such a valuable player that you can't find 10 better ones in the same position on the whole planet?
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Not really. He's been playing like that for us since November 23. If anything he was better a year ago. Also did it at a world Cup.

What makes him so valuable is that he does everything to a high level. He doesn't have a singular outstanding attribute but he is probably the most complete midfielder in the game right now.
 
Rojofiam said:
Do you think he's a, let's say, top 10 CM in the world? I don't, that's why I said very good but not elite.
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I don't care about rankings, they are always silly, but he certainly it's an Elite and Top CM in the world since some time, in fact I would say midfielder, because of his versatility. He might be one of the most underapreciated midfielders right now and it just takes watching regularly to actually see what he brings to the table in so many different aspects.
 
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B20 said:
Not really. He's been playing like that for us since November 23. If anything he was better a year ago. Also did it at a world Cup.

What makes him so valuable is that he does everything to a high level. He doesn't have a singular outstanding attribute but he is probably the most complete midfielder in the game right now.
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I dunno if he was better last year, or that at some point he was doing a more flashy (closer to 10) role, having more numbers than current task. Yet certainly in big matches Arne let him be a bit looser regarding those.
Like I've said before, he ain't Riquelme and his offensive prowness, nor Iniesta's dribbling but...

...at the same time he is so well rounded and smart that he doesn't get proper credit in some of his atributes. His passing is excellent on every type/range, not merely good or great, it certainly it's outstanding.
His strike? could be too, the skill is there, yet it's true that since he plays like a metronome holding the shape of the team he doesn't receive many ocasions to show it (in fact Liverpool should use him more in free kicks and penalties) and his task of actually bring order and calm, would make him try it less and play for others.

His press resistant is second to none, absolutely elite and his dribbling is very good, he lacks a second march, so it's not outstanding lacking that requisite; yet more than enough to create some space for himself or create a gap, since he is so mart he doesn't over do it (like Curtis in thsi last match) loosing the ball cheaply.

Also his capacity to add new layers it's quite remarkable, since last year his capacity for stealing balls it's right now great, even elite. I lost the count for instance of how many balls he stole against Man Utd and the way he does it. Right now it can be make a compilation of how elegant and strong he looks in many of those ocassions. Recoveries has become a very normal asset in his game.
Also it's just not stealing it, most of the time he instantly launches a progressive pass or hold it to gain momentum and recover air.
 
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Rojofiam said:
But that's just based on form, not ability, isn't it?

What part or parts of his skillset make him such a valuable player that you can't find 10 better ones in the same position on the whole planet?



I personally don't see it.
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You certainly have a particular set of eyes man.
 
Rojofiam said:
Do you think he's a, let's say, top 10 CM in the world? I don't, that's why I said very good but not elite.
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Yes, easily. With Rodri injured he might be the best midfielder in the world actually
 
Fobal said:
I dunno if he was better last year, or that at some point he was doing a more flashy (closer to 10) role, having more numbers than current task. Yet certainly in big matches Arne let him be a bit looser regarding those.
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It was actually in the defensive midfield role. It took a little while for him to adjust to it, but for a good part of the season he was bossing games defensively and offensively from the holding role that Gravenberch now occupies.

He really can do it all.
 
B20 said:
It was actually in the defensive midfield role. It took a little while for him to adjust to it, but for a good part of the season he was bossing games defensively and offensively from the holding role that Gravenberch now occupies.

He really can do it all.
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Yeap indeed at the start, he was doing his 6 role, he was a bit flaky the first three games and instantly grabbed the task from the neck. Yet I was reffering to those easily more or less four or five months were he was a bit more upfront playing more like a 10 or better offensive 8, where he started to put more numbers and more fancy stuff.

The best thing with him also it's that he is a 7 to 10 rating player match after match, he is very regular and he switches his priority within a match to what the teams needs more, that's why he is so important for any coach. Plus he has that extra confidence in himself to BE THERE (pulling it or not, he tries) against the toughest ones, he really likes to step up with some extra gear in big matches. Last match the way he was a metronome in the first half when Liverpool was more in control without finishing chances, bringing pause to not be caught off guard and the way he instantly went into agressive mode when the match went sideways, it's a testament of his intelligence and reading moments from the match, his mates and the rival.
 
Remember the geese said:
How can you not? He can literally do everything. The only reason yesterday's game was even a contest.
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B20 said:
Haven't really thought about it, but doubt I could count 10 better right now
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Fobal said:
I don't care about rankings, they are always silly, but he certainly it's an Elite and Top CM in the world since some time, in fact I would say midfielder, because of his versatility. He might be one of the most underapreciated midfielders right now and it just takes watching regularly to actually see what he brings to the table in so many different aspects.
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giorno said:
Yes, easily. With Rodri injured he might be the best midfielder in the world actually
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First of all, I don't believe that a player with Mac Allister's physical profile, and overall skillset, can ever be the "most complete" #8 on the planet, especially in an era when there's an abundance of elite talent in that position. It's insulting to the likes of Bellingham, Camavinga, Valverde, Pedri, Gavi, de Jong, Rice, Rodri, Guimaraes, Mainoo, Reijnders, Locatelli, Caicedo, Zubimendi, Neves, Zaire-Emery, etc.

Secondly, I'm not doubting he's a very good player. But honestly, what does he do not to just a very good level, but to an elite level, that would make him more valuable that the best players in his position?

Does he have pace and power like no one else? Passing range? Carrying? We can keep listing specific traits but I haven't seen anything from him (and yes, I've watched him) that made me think, he's one of the, if not the best at that specific thing.

I actually like players like him. I'm not shitting on him. I just find it deceptive when good players get overestimated beyond even superior profiles in the same position.

In my opinion, as I've mentioned already he's a jack of all trades, but a master of none. On top of that, he seems to have the tenacity and mentality of someone like Martínez at United, and he takes on a lot of responsibility for Liverpool...but at the same time, trust me, there's a reason he cost only 30m, and that's with Brighton being the selling club, the club who have been fleecing Chelsea for fun recently.

There's also a reason someone like Bellingham was heavily prioritized over him by Liverpool and they were probably willing to pay around 3 times as much for him compared to Mac Allister.
 
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